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Heritage Preservation - 04/15/2019 APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MONDAY,APRIL 15, 2019 6:30 P.M. CITY MAINTENANCE FACILITY 15150 TECHNOLOGY DR HPC COMMISSION MEMBERS: Steve Olson-Chair; Tara Kalar-Vice Chair; Pamela Spera; Valerie Ross; Paul Thorp; Shanti Shah; Cheryl Kessler STUDENT COMMISSION MEMBERS: Joe Pesheck; Neha Bhupatiraju; Sydney Lewis COMMISSION STAFF: Lori Creamer, Staff Liaison Kristin Harley, Recording Secretary I. CALL TO ORDER/ROLL CALL Chair Olson called the meeting to order at 6:32 p.m. Absent were commission members Ross and Shah and student representative and Lewis. Jay Lotthammer, Parks & Recreation Director and consultant Bob Mack of McDonald & Mack joined the meeting. II. SWEARING IN OF NEW COMMISSION MEMBER Chair Olson swore in new commission member Cheryl Kessler. III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA MOTION: Thorp moved, seconded by Spera to approve the agenda. Motion carried 4- 0. IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES MOTION: Thorp moved, seconded by Kessler to approve the minutes of the meeting held March 18, 2019 with the change that Thorp asked why True Friends did not go ahead with the pavement. Motion carried 4-0. IV. NEW BUSINESS A. FLYING RED HORSE [Kalar arrived at 6:52 p.m.] EDEN PRAIRIE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION April 15, 2019 Page 2 The commission members viewed the condition of the Flying Red Horse in its confined space. Lotthammer stated he did not know the best solution. He briefly summarized the history of the sign: the Schwartz family decided to donate it to the City in 2013. Pilots in clouds or fog would navigate to Flying Cloud Airport via the sign in its original location, and drivers from Mankato knew they had arrived in the outer ring of the Twin Cities upon seeing this sign. The key question was what kind of restoration or preservation along with location was best. Context would also be key. The commissions face the essential question of making the link between Eden Prairie history and this sign's preservation/conservation and display. Lotthammer explained it was ideal to find a location where the sign could be seen by more,rather than fewer residents. Mounting the sign in Riley Barn would protect it but restrict access. A proposed location was discussed at the Southwest light rail Town Center Station, where it curved around the present retail center near Redstone. Lotthammer stated there would be a quasi-plaza created, which could facilitate a display there. Kalar asked if there was a line-item budget for art when the budget for the light rail was set. Lotthammer replied it had been budgeted but quickly cut. Private funds would have to be used. Discussion followed on the need and level of protection. Key questions were what kind of enclosure to use if the sign was lighted, mounting considerations to accommodate wind load, and next steps. Lotthammer stressed what would be done to the sign went hand-in-hand with where and how it was to be displayed. Lighting choices included original type neon, LED lighting, outlining the object, or ground lighting. Thorp stated the original sign was lit from the ground with Pegasus outlined in neon. The Schwartz family had told him the neon was not a maintenance problem. Thorp added the restored Grain Belt sign used LED lighting. Kessler urged the commission to check in with Exxon-Mobil on this project, as there could be legal implications if the commission did not approach the corporation and ask for suggestions. Mack stated he did not see a potential revocation of permission from Exxon-Mobil, since General Mills did not object to free advertising from restoring the Pillsbury "A" Mill "Best Flour" sign. He added the corporation could be a potential source of funding. Kessler stated the commission should emphasize the sign's history in Eden Prairie, and Kalar concurred the commission should not assume the goal of displaying the sign would present a problem. Thorp agreed Exxon-Mobil may be enthusiastic about the project. Mack stated there were so many variables he was not sure if it was the commission's place to make a recommendation, or instead to present all options EDEN PRAIRIE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION April 15, 2019 Page 3 to City Council which would make a decision. The sign definitely needed a better environment than its current one. There was also the question of treating it as a museum artifact versus a piece of a building. He was surprised it would not fall under the "one percent for art" approved by law. Lotthammer replied such funding did not exist in Eden Prairie. The Metropolitan Council and Metro Transit had learned from previous light rail lines that providing for art created maintenance problems. There were three different types of stations, and all three were prototypes. For example, the Station A prototype was the same in Eden Prairie as in Hopkins, so Eden Prairie did not have the freedom to design its own stations. Nevertheless, the City wished to create a unique experience at each station and the art could be mounted off of the plaza. He stated the city has been working with developers to inspire them to include public art in their projects, since they could not be compelled via ordinance. Private funding must be pursued. Olson stated the commission should brainstorm ideas and concepts before becoming locked into a discussion on funding. He thought the light rail plaza was a good suggestion. Thorp warned nearby gas stations could raise concerns. Discussion followed on a communication/wayfinding piece to accommodate the sign. Lotthammer drew the location on a white board. Discussion followed on the advantages and disadvantages of the plaza location. Kessler stated her concern about displaying the sign outside; it would be better protected inside. She and Thorp visited and viewed some possible Eden Prairie Mall locations, learning some of the mall's floor had a weight restriction and would not accommodate the weight of the sign. Thorp stated the person they spoke with suggested near the escalator might be a good location. Kessler added this would be tucked away from the rest of the mall. Another location was to display the sign on a pole at a height of the second floor level. Spera asked if there other signs to use as an example to the commission, and Thorp replied this was the last sign like it that existed. Lotthammer added there were smaller versions with just the metal plate. Kessler suggested displaying it at Flying Cloud Airport again and Kalar replied the City could not light it up there. Thorp added the commission members' inspection of the sign revealed the center structure may need to be narrowed, or detached and split in two,because it was unsightly. Kessler stated she liked the idea of showing two sides or even all components as the sign was actually in four pieces—this would also display its restoration. Mack stated if this was truly the last sign, a good case could be made for a National Register nomination as an object, which would be allowed to move around, thus removing the question of location and display for now. On the other hand, it was a remnant of a building. Kalar asked if the sign must have neon lights. Mack stated the sign could go on the Register as it was, and neon or LED could be added later. However, reducing its width as Thorp suggested would then not be an option because the sign would lose integrity. Legacy money was granted EDEN PRAIRIE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION April 15, 2019 Page 4 for building pieces/objects without changes. Thorp suggested removing the facing applied in 1970s, and Mack replied that would also require a conversation in the context of a National Register nomination. Kalar called the question for an action item. Lotthammer replied the aim tonight was to chart ideas, and asked if there would be any harm if the next step was dissecting the sign. It was unlikely anyone would use or display the structure, which was perhaps not usable—that could be photo-documented instead. Thorp agreed in determining the sign's true condition, would help determine where to display it. Kessler suggested displaying it as a distressed piece. Mack stated once dissected the sign might be a hard sell for a National Register nomination; he would like to see it more clearly from all sides, and that was not possible in its present location. Lotthammer stated it is difficult to find staff to do condition discovery work, which was a research project in itself. Mack replied he knew of several possible consultants available for the work here in the Twin Cities. Creamer stated she had contacted two specialists; and there were many questions and not enough information for Creamer to receive an estimate. Mack reiterated the three important words in conservation: "water," and "it depends." Lotthammer added in an outdoor display, wind load increased with height, so wind was also a consideration. Discussion followed on the opportunity for public input. Kalar stated the commission members and Eden Prairie staff needed more information before drawing any conclusions, or even next steps. Creamer agreed, and stated this was also why staff and the commission members were having the conversation now and had scheduled an upcoming meeting with the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission. Thorp stated he was now certain the sign's condition was too far gone to restore it to the original 1935 condition. Mack stated it would be fruitful to find the sign's period of significance. Lotthammer stated he would have the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission help determine a possible park location, and Creamer announced the joint meeting was May 6. Thorp agreed the commission members would get direction from that meeting. Once a location is determined, then seeking estimates could begin based on the level of preservation needed. V. OLD BUSINESS A. YORKVILLE/BLOOMINGTON ROAD LOCAL DESIGNATION DISCUSSION [Bhupatiraju left at 7:50 p.m.] Thorp stated he was certain the road had been ordered to be built by the state in 1863. The missing piece for him was he was convinced it was also the original location of the Ox Cart Trail but the consultant had left this out of the written findings. He summarized private property law and eminent domain: private EDEN PRAIRIE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION April 15, 2019 Page 5 property could not be taken for public use without compensation. There was no road easement or other acquisition for public purposes in the record. There was a longstanding legal principle that gave the public right to land for a roadway that is publicly traveled after six years. Thorp added that as a surveyor, he judged the road layout on the map, which had twists and deflections, was measured in chains within each section to establish a roadway which would use a straightaway. He held up an example of actual six-inch chains to show the commission members. His conclusion was this had been measured along an existing path, and therefore this road was built along the existing trail and was not acknowledged in the record because no one asked the question until now. Olson suggested this be locally designated both as Yorkville/Bloomington Road and the Ox Cart Trail. The commission would receive pushback against National Register designation but not a local designation. Thorp agreed and added the commission members needed to determine the precise route for designation. Kessler asked for and received a summation of the local designation process from Creamer. Olson suggested moving ahead with local designation based on Thorp's findings. Thorp shared his findings with Mack, passed around his maps to the commission members, and agreed to assist in providing necessary documentation for the nomination. B. CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS — LION'S DEN AT THE GLEN LAKE CHILDREN'S CAMP Creamer stated she had not received comments back from SHPO, which were due April 17. So far, that office had similar comments as raised by the commission members. She would reconnect with Connor McGrath at True Friends and work with him on the next steps for a public hearing, once all questions are answered. C. PEOPLEFEST UPDATE Creamer read Shah's update: there would be a booth and a City tent, and the next meeting was April 17. Kessler stated she and Thorp had worked on a booth display with the focus on immigration using maps. She passed around a sketch of the tent and examples of five different hanging maps and a display of early Eden Prairie families and where they came from (England, Scotland, Bohemia, etc.). Included was a 1987 "Dollars for Scholars" map that showed Eden Prairie before many current roads went in. She and Thorp had explored a pin-in-globe idea but such globes were expensive. An alternative was an inflatable globe with different colored pens to show personal routes around Eden Prairie, or a "create your family tree"project. D. HERITAGE PRESERVATION AWARD EDEN PRAIRIE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION April 15, 2019 Page 6 Creamer announced one nomination had been received. The deadline was the end of April. The commission will make the decision at the May 6 meeting. E. HARVEST CELEBRATION Kessler stated she met with Ross regarding timed tours, such as every 20 minutes, of the Dorenkemper house. Kessler suggested videotaping the story that Ginny Dorenkemper told, and was going to approach her for permission on the first day of the festival. Included would be games. She asked Creamer to ensure the interpretive signs were drawing visitors to the house. VI. REPORTS OF STUDENTS VII. REPORTS OF COMMISSION AND STAFF VII. REPORTS OF HISTORICAL SOCIETY Thorp stated the Annual Meeting will be on April 25 in the historic gym. The Vintage Sale was at the Cummins Phipps Grill House May 9-11. Cheryl Kessler will be appointed as a board member at the Annual Meeting VIII. FYI ITEMS The Commission Banquet will be on Thursday, May 18 and the Heritage Preservation Award will be at the City Council meeting on May 21. IX NEXT MEETING The next meeting will be a joint meeting with the Parks, Recreation, and Natural Resources Commission on Monday, May 6, 2019, at 6:30 p.m. outside the City Center, 8080 Mitchell Road. 6:30 Tour of the MN River Vista then to Riley Lake Park. 7:30 meeting in Heritage Rooms, lower level of City Center. X. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Kalar moved, seconded by Spera to adjourn. Motion carried 5-0. The meeting was adjourned at 8:21 p.m.