Planning Commission - 07/11/2011 APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMMISSION
MONDAY,JULY 11, 2011 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER
Council Chambers
8080 Mitchell Road
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Matt Fyten, John Kirk, Katie Lechelt, Jacob Lee,
Jerry Pitzrick, Kevin Schultz, Jon Stoltz, Travis
Wuttke
STAFF MEMBERS: Michael Franzen, City Planner
Rod Rue, City Engineer
Stu Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources
Julie Krull, Recording Secretary
I. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE—ROLL CALL
Chair Stoltz called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Kirk was absent.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Stoltz stated Franzen had an addition to the Planners Report, the Bear Path Trail
Resolution.
MOTION by Lechelt, seconded by Wuttke, to approve the amended agenda. Motion
carried 7-0.
III. MINUTES
A. PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING HELD ON JULY 11, 2011
MOTION by Schultz, seconded by Lechelt, to approve the minutes. Motion
carried 5-0. Pitzrick and Wuttke abstained.
IV. INFORMATIONAL MEETINGS
V. PUBLIC MEETINGS
VI. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. GE CAPITAL ECO EXPERIENCE CENTER by GE Capital Corporation
Location: 3 Capital Drive
Request for:
EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
July 11, 2011
Page 2
• Planned Unit Development Concept Amendment on 42 acres
• Planned Unit Development District Review on 42 acres
• Zoning District Amendment within the Office Zoning District on 42 acres
• Site Plan Review on 42 acres
• Preliminary Plat on 42 acres
Deb Frodl, Chief Strategy and Marketing Officer, of GE Capital Fleet Services,
stated they have refined their plans since the last time they have been here. She
stated they are building a 6,620 square foot Eco Center that will have offices, a
garage for vehicles, charging stations for electric vehicles and a driving course.
Chair Stoltz asked Franzen to review the staff report. Franzen stated on page 3 of
the staff report there are two options the Commissioners should consider. Staff
recommendation is either for approval of the project as it is with the waivers or
continue it to the July 25 meeting with direction to revise the exterior materials to
conform to code. Franzen stated he has received two emails in regards to this
project. The first email was from Donald Nelson, of 10878 Kiawah Drive. He
stated the vehicles should only be allowed to drive on the track during normal
business hours, 8-5, and should only be passenger vehicles. The second email
was from Terry Pearson, of 10827 Leeping Deer Lane. She wanted the testing of
vehicles to occur during business hours and she does not support the aluminum
exterior on the building and stated it should support the A class office
classification with landscaping appropriate.
Charles Howley, HTPO, Civil Engineer, commented on the second email stating
they will comply with the MPCA daytime standards.
Paxton Waters, licensed architect for the project, stated they started this project in
December and at that time they were just considering the driving course for their
project. There was no building on the project so they initially decided to
construct a car port. They then thought since it is Minnesota it would be best to
have a garage. They started thinking of having a meeting room upstairs and a
viewing area for the vehicles. They then started designing the building with the
concept of a futuristic look. Since they are designing cars for the future, they
thought they would like the display area as such. That is how they have gotten to
where they are now. Chair Stoltz asked Mr. Waters if he agreed or disagreed with
the staff report. Mr. Waters stated he disagreed with the staff recommendations in
the report.
Lechelt asked Mr. Waters if they are going for LEED Certification and would the
building reach certification with the products they are using. Mr. Waters stated
LEED Certification was not really being considered or intended. Lechelt asked if
they could use glass for the garage door. Mr. Waters said the aluminum doors do
have glass panels in them. Lechelt asked Franzen if that portion of glass would be
considered in the percentage. Franzen stated it would count towards the
percentage.
EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
July 11, 2011
Page 3
Wuttke asked the project proponent what the visual imparities would be for the
residents. Mr. Waters stated the front of the building would be visible from 78th
street and not the freeway. The back of the building is what the residents would
see, which is just a monolithic plain wall.
Pitzrick stated there are two main materials that are contributing to the material
issue. They are EFIS products, which are on the back of the building, and
alucabond, which is a metal product. He asked if they changed the EFIS on the
back wall, would it bring them up to standards. Mr. Waters stated they would be
willing to change to conform. Charles Howley stated if they changed it, it would
bring them up to 55 percent. Pitzrick stated the solar panels on one side of the
building are not really effective as they are more southeast than south. Mr.
Waters stated they are working with an expert in the field and he thinks the
placement for the solar panels is just fine. Pitzrick stated the name has been
changed on the drawings to Customer Experience Center versus Eco Center
Experience Center and asked if the project is changing names. Ms. Frodl stated it
is still an Eco Center, even though the word customer is in the title.
Chair Stoltz asked if they would run standard operation hours. Ms. Frodl stated
they would be operating during standard hours.
Wuttke commented permeable pavers are being used and he was glad to see that.
Charles Howley said they would be used in the plaza sidewalk area and to the
right of the entrance where they will be showcasing the vehicles. There are no
plans right now to use them elsewhere.
Lechelt asked if the project proponent has talked with the Three Rivers Park
District. Charles Howley stated they have not reached out to them,but did
receive a letter from them last week with a few suggestions they will take into
consideration.
Chair Stoltz opened the meeting up for public input.
Philip Smith, of 10670 Kiawah Drive, said in looking at the location map, they
are the condo association located south of the project site. He is concerned about
run-off from the project and stated in looking at the map, it appears there will be a
great deal of run-off coming off of the roof of the building and asked what the
City would do about this. In regards to noise, even though vehicles are all
electric, there still would be trucks delivering vehicles and making noise. He
stated he is curious to see what the Three Rivers Park District has to say about the
water run-off. Charles Howley addressed this issue by utilizing the overhead
projector to show where the building was located and what the drainage plan
would be and where the water run-off would ultimately be going. He pointed out
this would certainly meet all of the water shed requirements and stated the water
quality should not be an issue with this project. Ms. Frodl addressed the vehicle
EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
July 11, 2011
Page 4
delivery issue and stated it would happen during normal business hours and would
not be that frequent.
Doug Waterman, of 10698 Kiawah Drive stated that they will mainly be seeing
the solar panels on the building and is concerned if they will reflect back on the
residents. Mr. Waters stated they are black solar panels and will not reflect back
on the residents.
Lechelt stated there is no clear stone indicated around the drain tile and asked if
there would be additional stone around this to help with clogging. Charles stated
the geotextile was not around the pipe and it would be going around the bathtub,
so to speak, and there should be no clogging. He stated the water will go through
a screen and on the back side is a rip/wrap and then is goes to infiltration. Lechelt
asked if there will be training to monitor the maintenance of this. Charles
confirmed there would be some training on this.
Chair Stoltz asked Franzen to comment on this project. Franzen stated using the
alucabond is not an issue as a material in the 25% category and if the front of the
building is where they will be showcasing that then they could increase the use of
limestone on the other three sides and they would be conforming.
Chair Stoltz asked Franzen if he thought this project should be continued to the
next meeting. Franzen stated it would be up to the Commission to make that
decision.
Chair Stoltz asked the Commission Members their thoughts on this project. Fyten
stated he is not really concerned with it and is for recommending approval.
Pitzrick said he is also fine with it as long as they deal with the EFIS materials.
Pitzrick also pointed out he was there today driving vehicles and they were very
quiet. Schultz stated the change points are minor and he would be in favor of this
project. Lechelt stated she feels the same way as long as the residents are okay
with what was discussed tonight. Lee said he would was fine with the project.
Wuttke stated he has no problem approving it,but wants them to work with City
Staff.
Mr. Waters commented that doing the one side of the building with limestone
would not work because the sides have to be the same as the front of the building.
He said it is easiest to do the back of the building. Lee stated he would be
comfortable going with 55 percent. Wuttke stated just by doing Pitzrick's EFIS
change, it would bring them down to 55 percent.
MOTION by Wuttke, seconded by Lee, to close the public hearing. Motion
carried 7-0.
MOTION by Wuttke, seconded by Fyten, to recommend approval of the Planned
Unit Development Concept Amendment on 42 acres, Planned unit Development
EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
July 11, 2011
Page 5
District Review on 42 acres, Zoning District Amendment within the Office
Zoning District on 42 acres, Site Plan Review on 42 acres, and Preliminary Plat of
42 acres with the caveat they work with Staff on 55 percent,based on plans
stamped dated June 30, 2011 and the staff report dated July 8, 2011. Motion
carried 7-0.
B. PRAIRIE RIDGE by Manley Development.
Location: 17555 Duck Lake Trail
Request for:
• Planned Unit Development Concept Review on 9.69 acres
• Planned Unit Development District Review on 9.69 acres
• Zoning District Change from R1-22 to R1-13.5 on 9.69 acres
• Preliminary Plat on 9.69 acres into 22 lots and 1 outlot
Lechelt excused herself from this discussion because she worked on the project.
Bill Coffman, of Coffman Development Services, is representing Manley
Development on this project. He thanked Staff for working on the project with
them and thanked the neighbors for their participation in their meetings. He
utilized the overhead projector to show the plan for the project. He stated they are
proposing to develop 22 lots on 10 acres of land and pointed out this would allow
nice deep yards without the aspect of large homes. He stated there is a very nice
street scape and there is a contemporary feel coming into the project. They will
also be adding a trail that ties into an existing trail to the north. He stated Bob
Molstad will talk about storm water. They have two storm water ponds and three
infiltration swales set up. Mr. Coffman stated there will be 2 to 3 custom home
builders building in this project with prices ranging from$450,000 - $650,000 for
the lot and home together. He pointed out they have reasonable home sizes and
prices and feels this is a good project.
Chair Stoltz asked Mr. Coffman what concerns he took from the homeowners
when they were making their plans. Mr. Coffman said they were not going to
construct McMansions in the area; which was a concern. And also landscaping
was a concern. They were planting more trees on site at their expense. He stated
another concern was the added traffic at Duck Lake Trail and he would leave that
up to staff to discuss.
Chair Stoltz asked Franzen to review the staff report. Franzen stated staff is
recommending approval according to the recommendations in the staff report.
Pitzrick stated he hopes the developer is successful in selling the lots by 2013,but
asked how long they will be maintained if they are not sold. Mr. Coffman stated
they will be constantly maintaining the property.
Wuttke asked stafff was if there was a concern about subgrade soil on the site.
Rue stated he knows the soil is granular but is not concerned.
EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
July 11, 2011
Page 6
Chair Stoltz opened the meeting up for public input.
Ben Johnson, of 6908 Barberry Lane, and Nelson Gould of 6932 Barberry Lane
came up together. Mr. Johnson gave Chair Stoltz a list of concerned residents.
Mr. Johnson stated he is representing the neighbors in the area and stated his
concern is that most homes in the area were built in the 60's and he would like the
surrounding homes to conform more to theirs. He feels the homes would be too
large for the area. He asked if they would be 2-story homes or ramblers. Mr.
Coffman stated it would be a mixture of the two, and the market would dictate
what they ultimately will be. Mr. Johnson stated he has a concern with the lot
lines because he will have two homes ultimately in his back yard.
Nelson Gould stated a lot of these homes would be much bigger than the existing
homes in the area. Currently there are a lot of ramblers in the area and a lot of the
new homes will be three story homes. Mr. Johnson stated changing the lot size
would change the character of the neighborhood.
Chair Stoltz asked if Mr. Johnson gave the list of neighbors to the project
proponent. Mr. Johnson said he had not given the project proponent a copy of the
list of names he gave to Chair Stoltz.
Mr. Gueld said infiltration run-off is an issue with this project.
Mr. Johnson stated there is concern with people parking in the cul-de-sac to use
the park.
Barb Soderberg, of 6900 Barberry Lane, stated she is at the bottom of the S,
where they are placing the homes. It is a hill and she is at the bottom of it and is
concerned with water run-off. Bob Molstad stated they are routing water around
the homes into the pond. Rue stated they have reviewed their plans and are fine
with the way they are proposed. Ms. Soderberg asked, when looking at the map,
did Staff take into account where the elevation changes. Rue stated that was
taken into account. Ms. Soderberg asked what would happen in the future if they
had water issues. Rue stated they would try and work out different things with the
homeowners so this would not happen. Chair Stoltz asked what would happen
after a year if existing neighbors had water issues. Rue stated if it is within a year
or two, the developer would be responsible. He pointed out there is plenty of new
storm sewers in the area and it is not a concern. Chair Stoltz asked how long the
developer would be responsible. Rue said as long as the bonds are active they are
responsible.
Mr. Johnson asked if the Watershed District is aware of this project. Rue stated
the Watershed District is aware of this project because the project proponent has
to get a permit from them.
EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
July 11, 2011
Page 7
Schultz asked Rue if there were issues with water run-off due to development,
does it typically happen within the first 2 years. Rue stated yes, the issues will
show up quickly.
Pitzrick asked what the height requirements are for the homes. Franzen stated the
height restrictions are 40 feet. Pitzrick commented if you line up new lot lines
with old lot lines, you end up with a bigger lot, which could result in bigger
homes.
Fyten asked the project proponent if the two neighborhood meetings were well
attended. Mr. Coffman stated approximately 50 people attended each meeting.
Chair Stoltz commented that initially the project proponent said he met with
neighbors and stated everything was fine but now Mr. Johnson brings a list of 27
homeowners opposing the project and because of that he does not feel
comfortable passing the project. Schultz agreed with Chair Stoltz.
Curt Manley stated they were only supposed to have one meeting and they had
two. He pointed out they were very accommodating to homeowners and Mr.
Johnson never spoke at either of the meetings and he felt it was rude he brought
up all of these issues tonight and not before.
Ms. Soderberg stated she thought it was unfortunate the project proponent felt
sandbagged by the homeowner,but felt he was very unprofessional. She stated
we as homeowners have not had time to discuss this project.
Scott Carlson, of 8150 Drexel,representing the trust in this project, stated he sat
here tonight and was shocked. He is surprised this is the first time they have
heard backlash in regards to this project and does not understand what more time
will accomplish. He would hope the Commission would move forward with this
project. Mr. Manley stated he meant not disrespect to anyone.
Franzen stated in regards to the neighborhood meetings, they are for the neighbors
to become familiar with the builders and to get more information about the project
so when they come to a Planning Commission Meeting, they can say what they
like or dislike about the project.
Chair Stoltz stated he is on the Commission to represent the citizens of Eden
Prairie and thinks it is a good idea to have another neighborhood meeting. Mr.
Carlson said he does not know what another meeting would accomplish and does
not know what else to do.
Wuttke stated he is sympathetic to both sides but does not see what a third
meeting would accomplish. He would like to see this project move forward.
EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
July 11, 2011
Page 8
Lee asked Franzen if the project proponent and Commission could meet again
before the next City Council meeting. Franzen stated that they could meet again
because there are two Planning Commission meetings before the next City
Council meeting.
Lee stated he could go either way on this project. He could see it move forward,
but if the project proponent could meet with the neighbors before the City Council
meeting that would be great.
Schultz said he was in favor of a continuance before, because he was a little
blindsided with the way things transpired in the meeting tonight. He would like
to see both sides in more of a compromise and would still like to see a
continuance.
Pitzrick stated he thinks what is proposed is a good,balanced project and would
be in favor of it,but would also be okay with a continuance.
Fyten stated he was concerned because both meetings were well attended and was
surprised with the reaction to the meeting tonight. He does not know what a third
meeting would reveal and would be in favor of moving forward.
Stoltz stated he is in favor of a continuance and it is 3 to 3 because Lechelt cannot
vote. Lee stated he is in favor of the project as it stands.
Mr. Manley stated he does not mind having another meeting but pointed out it is
hard to get funding for this project and he would have to have the builders come
out again. He stated they gave the neighbors 30 day notices for each meeting and
did everything they could.
Lee addressed the homeowners in the audience and told them even though the
project is approved at the Planning Commission level they can still attend the City
Council meeting and object.
Dave Shold, of 6941 Boyd Avenue, stated he went to the informational meetings.
He said he wants to make sure both sides are heard.
Schultz commented he was disappointed this information came up at the eleventh
hour. He stated City Staff has done a great job on this and he knows it will get
approved by the City Council, but he feels another meeting with the neighbors is
not going to delay the project. He pointed out the project proponent is within the
parameters of the project.
Chair Stoltz said right now he does not feel he can give the City Council clear
direction on this project and would like to see a continuance.
EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
July 11, 2011
Page 9
Pitzrick stated he sees the meeting as a sharing of ideas and not a meeting to come
up with different alternatives. Lee concurred. Pitzrick also stated he would like
to see a member of City Staff attend the meeting and said at this point,he would
be in favor of the project as is.
Chair Stoltz asked Franzen if they could put in an amendment that they have
another neighborhood meeting before the project goes to City Council. Franzen
stated they could put that in as an amendment,but looking at what is on the table
here, the only thing the project proponent would have to change is the zoning
district and nothing else. If they have a meeting, nothing major will get changed,
only what is dictated by the Commission tonight.
Mr. Manley said during the first neighborhood meeting they did not even have a
development plan. In both meetings it was stressed that larger lots mean larger
homes and they have brought in screening for the neighbors. He pointed out they
would be in favor of a continuance,but they are concerned with the investors and
how they will perceive this.
MOTION by Wuttke, seconded by Lee, to close the public hearing. Motion
carried 6-0.
MOTION by Wuttke, seconded by Lee, to recommend approval of the Planned
Unit Development Concept Review on 9.69 acres, Planned Unit Development
District Review on 9.69 acres. Zoning District Change from R1-22 to R1-13.5 on
9.69 acres, and Preliminary Plat of 9.69 acres into 22 lots and 1 outlot,based on
plans stamped dated July 6, 2011 and the staff report dated July 8, 2011 with an
amendment that another neighborhood meeting be set up by the project proponent
prior to the August 16th City Council meeting. Motion carried 4-2-1. Lechelt
abstained.
Chair Stoltz encouraged Mr. Carlson to work with the neighbors and the
neighbors to work with the project proponent to come together on this project.
Schultz left the meeting.
C. THUNDERBIRD AVIATION by Nancy Grazzini-Olson.
Location: 14091 Pioneer Trail.
Request for:
• Site Plan Review on 4.7 acres
Nancy Grazzini-Olson, owner of Thunderbird Aviation, presented the proposal to
build a new facility at the airport. She stated the facility would be closer to
Pioneer Trail and parking for the building would be on the outside of the
perimeter fence, which would help with security.
EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
July 11, 2011
Page 10
Chair Stoltz asked Franzen to review the staff report. Franzen stated staff
recommendation is for approval based on page 3 of the staff report.
Lee asked the project proponent if they are next to Elliott. Ms. Grazzini-Olson
stated they are next to Elliott. Lee stated when driving down the road it looks
very choppy, and asked if they could put the parking facility inside so all the
buildings would mess together better. Ms. Grazzini-Olson stated with the new
security issues, the parking lot has to be on the outside of the perimeter fence.
Franzen said it is all about curb appeal. He pointed out any of the new buildings
will have more block or brick on them and in regards to the landscaping, you have
to limit the amount of trees that can be put up because they attract birds.
Chair Stoltz commented that previously a lot of the hangers did not have sewer
and water and asked if that has changed. Rue stated they are developing sewer
and water in these areas now.
Wuttke asked what document was drafted in 1996. Franzen stated it was the
Flying Cloud Airport Design Framework Manual. It recognized that aircraft
hangers and other facilities at the airport service a unique function and set of
design characteristics. The manual establishes parameters regarding building
materials for new development at the airport and helps to guide new construction
in a cohesive and aesthetic manner. This project is in conformance with the
manual.
Chair Stoltz opened the meeting up for public input. There was no input.
MOTION by Pitzrick, seconded by Lee, to close the public hearing. Motion
carried 6-0.
MOTION by Pitzrick, seconded by Fyten, to recommend approval of Site Plan
Review on 4.7 acres based on plans stamped dated June 22, 2011 and the staff
report dated July 8, 2011. Motion carried 6-0.
VII. PLANNERS' REPORT
A. Bear Path Trail Resolution
Franzen said there is a Bear Path Trail Resolution that needs to be signed. Since
it is a capital improvement, according to the statute, the Planning Commission has
to make an advisory recommendation that the construction of the trail is in
conformance with the comprehensive plan. The City will be building the trails
and the cost accessed back to Bear Path. The Commission indicated that the
project was in conformance with e Comprehensive Guide Plan.
Franzen stated there will not be a meeting on July 25,but there will be a meeting
on August 8th.
EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
July 11, 2011
Page 11
VIII. MEMBERS' REPORT
IX. CONTINUING BUSINESS
X. NEW BUSINESS
XI. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION by Lee, seconded by Wuttke, to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried
6-0.
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 9:28 p.m.