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Conservation Commission - 06/28/2010 - Joint Meeting APPROVED MINUTES CONSERVATION COMMISSION/PLANNING COMMISSION JOINT WORKSHOP MONDAY,JUNE 28, 2010 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER Heritage Rooms 1 & 2 8080 Mitchell Road CONSERVATION COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Laura Jester(Chair), Greg Olson (Vice Chair), Sue Brown, Ray Daniels, Geneva MacMillan PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Jacob Lee, Jerry Pitzrick, Jon Stoltz, Travis Wuttke STAFF MEMBERS: Regina Herron, Planning Division Stu Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources Michael Franzen, City Planner Jan Curielli, Recording Secretary I. INTRODUCTIONS II. MISSION, CHARTER AND RESPONSIBILITIES Jester reviewed the charter and responsibilities of the Conservation Commission. She said the members of the Conservation Commission are interested in learning what the Planning Commission looks at, particularly how they look at natural resources when reviewing a development plan. Stoltz said the Planning Commission would like to find ways they can help the Conservation Commission. The Planning Commission goes through a project and tries to think about the best ways in which to build up the City of Eden Prairie and how the citizens and neighbors in Eden Prairie might view the project. He said members of the Conservation Commission are free to email members of the Planning Commission about items that are coming up for review. Pitzrick asked if the Conservation Commission reviews projects that come through the system. Olson replied that the Conservation Commission gets the project profile with a list of things that will be considered at the Planning Commission,but there is not a lot of background or perspective that goes along with the project profile. He said it would be useful to get some kind of narrative on a certain project that might be relevant to what the Planning Commission is looking at. He noted for the past several months the Conservation Commission has been focused on how our commission can advocate for storm water abatement methods such as rain gardens or pervious surfaces. Jester said the Conservation Commission had a workshop with the City Council last year and the Council does not want any more stops along the way for development plans. She CONSERVATION COMMISSION/PLANNING COMMISSION JOINT WORKSHOP June 28, 2010 Page 2 thought it would be good to keep a dialogue between the Conservation Commission and the Planning Commission about upcoming development so the Conservation Commission could provide a perspective on upcoming projects. Stoltz asked staff how we would get more in front of projects because the Planning Commission doesn't get into a lot of detail until they receive the packet for the Monday night meeting. Franzen said staff doesn't really know what is in the project plan until three weeks before the meeting date. They go through a process to make sure they have all the relevant information behind the project and then use the tools available to go through the plan. It is a matter of negotiation if there are things they would like to see happen that are not in City Code or the Guide Plan. Jester said it is difficult to try to fit the Conservation Commission into taking a look at the project plans, so education and cooperation among the commissions is important. Jester said there are many great natural features in the City, and storm water is one of the biggest issues today. III. RAINWATER GARDEN DISCUSSION A. What is a Rainwater Garden Jester said there is a lot of information available about rainwater gardens now, and they have been proven to work in cold climates and in residential areas. B. Map and Photos of Developments Herron showed a slide of the basic profile of a rainwater garden and photos of various rain gardens in Eden Prairie and other nearby communities. C. Practices in Surrounding Cities Jester said the Conservation Commission received a presentation from the Water Resources Manager in Plymouth where they have been able to incorporate 50 rain gardens in residential and commercial areas. She said it is especially beneficial if the rain gardens can be incorporated along the streets by means of curb cuts. A lot of rain water can be caught in a rain garden if there is some slope into it. Herron noted the Plymouth area streets were ready for reconstruction so they were able to increase the number of rain gardens in the street right-of-way. They worked with homeowners and had some grant money to pay for the majority of the costs. Stoltz asked if there are any details regarding the abatement per square foot. Jester said there is a lot of science behind the calculations, and it depends on the size of the rain garden. She said Burnsville did rain gardens in one area and none in another and then studied the amounts of storm water abatement in each. She said there was a 90% reduction in the area with the rain gardens. CONSERVATION COMMISSION/PLANNING COMMISSION JOINT WORKSHOP June 28, 2010 Page 3 Jester said maintenance is a huge issue, both annual maintenance and occasional larger maintenance tasks. She said it is similar to a storm water pond. Pitzrick noted projects to upgrade streets do not come through the Planning Commission. Fox said upgrading streets would be a Public Works project and would go directly to the City Council. He noted Plymouth received a grant for their rain gardens,but their City Council took the lead on them. He said many of Eden Prairie's utilities are located in the boulevards which would make it difficult to locate rain gardens there. Pitzrick said the MPCA requires maintenance on storm water ponds and asked if there are similar requirements for rain gardens. Jester said there are no requirements and noted the City is still working on surveying the ponds. Fox said if the storm water ponds are dredged, the material removed is considered hazardous waste and the cost for disposal of that material is extremely high. He said fertilizer and grass clippings accumulate in storm water ponds, and the same thing would happen with rain gardens. Jester said rainwater gardens are new but, in general, storm water infiltration and low impact development are becoming increasingly important as a better way of development. IV. POROUS PAVER DISCUSSION A. Current Ordinance Jester said in March of 2009 the Planning Commission was considering a code change to allow porous pavers, and she asked about the status of that change. Herron said City code currently allows bituminous blacktop or Portland cement, but we have received a lot of calls from residents about pavers. We decided to look at the definition because the code wasn't specific regarding porous pavers as a permitted use. The direction to staff from the Planning Commission was to take a closer look and evaluate the pavers. The Conservation Commission was brought in to look at the use of pavers as part of staff's research efforts. B. Research on Surrounding Cities Olson said we know that surrounding communities do permit pervious surfaces under certain circumstances, primarily in residential areas. Herron said some communities leave it to the discretion of the City Engineer or allow it for areas of commercial property except where there would be heavy traffic. Olson said one of the side benefits he learned of was to help abate the amount of silt in fresh water. He said it also potentially helps reduce the level of ice buildup as the porous surfaces help the ice melt and the water goes straight down. He said there were concerns about the surface holding up with heavy vehicle usage. Jester CONSERVATION COMMISSION/PLANNING COMMISSION JOINT WORKSHOP June 28, 2010 Page 4 said there was a study done in Robbinsdale where they used porous pavers to reduce icing in the Shingle Creek area. C. Maintenance Issues Stoltz said he had concerns about the warranty surrounding porous pavers and their durability. Pitzrick said it costs a little more for the initial installation, and there are some maintenance issues with it. He thought we should take into account how much less storm water piping would be needed if this were used. Lee noted this would be an option and would never be a requirement. Stoltz thought we could push some developers on the issue. Herron said the Conservation Commission did some great research on surrounding cities and what they do or do not allow. She asked if this would be applicable to both commercial and residential and if we would address those separately. Stoltz thought it would be an option anywhere. Pitzrick thought the key thing is that it is not good for heavy truck traffic areas. Jester asked how the question of maintenance is addressed within the City code. Franzen said the only section of code dealing with maintenance is that trees that die must be replaced. Pitzrick asked if we require that storm water drains on commercial property be cleaned out. Fox said City staff goes out and cleans sump basins as part of the infrastructure maintenance. He said we have dealt with associations about different things like trails and landscaping but it becomes very difficult to go back after the fact. Pitzrick said it would be good if we could add rain gardens and permeable surfaces to the maintenance for storm water ponds. Olson said hard surfaced driveways deteriorate and must be maintained so market forces come into play for maintenance issues. Fox said the average resident will do maintenance but a lot of people don't put money into preventive maintenance so our trail system may be in better shape than some of the driveways in the City. Jester said surfaces that are not maintained well do not absorb storm water. She thought enough research is out there and the technology has come far enough that we don't need to be too skeptical. Olson asked if anyone has approached the Planning Commission about pervious surfaces. Stoltz said we have suggested they look into it but haven't had them come to us. Franzen said we have looked at having pervious pavement in a parking lot if there is no room for a rainwater garden. Olson then asked what the stance of the Planning Commission would be if they were approached about it. Stoltz said they would probably look to staff in that case. Franzen thought we would be better off to change the code and put in something about pervious pavement options. He noted we have pavers all over the City. Stoltz said the commission would certainly be for it. CONSERVATION COMMISSION/PLANNING COMMISSION JOINT WORKSHOP June 28, 2010 Page 5 Jester said we are taking a look at what other cities have. Pitzrick said Plymouth was the only city to make a comment encouraging pervious pavers. Wuttke said the concern would be the level of expectation for contractors about the subgrading required. Jester said we can't advocate for certain contractors but wondered if we could give them a list. Herron said we can tell them who did a particular project. D. Comments and Feedbacks Stoltz asked if there is a certification process that the contractors need to go through. Wuttke said there isn't that he knows of. Olson asked if it would make sense to include language about subsurface preparation in the code or require inspection by the City. Franzen said the first thing is to get the right specs, and we might let developers know we will inspect to make sure the requirements are followed. Lee asked about the problems caused if it doesn't work. Jester thought it is just that it doesn't work like it should. Pitzrick said in a commercial setting we would consider the impact it would have on the storm water. Brown noted if the surface is not prepared properly we would have problems with buckling and appearance. Jester said we will keep working on this and get something to the Planning Commission in the next few months. Jester said solar energy and wind turbines are something that staff is trying to work on. Stoltz said Best Buy came to us about their wind turbine as they needed a variance for one of the two they put in. Brown said they are developing solar shingles and there are a lot of other things coming. Stoltz asked Mr. Pitzrick if he had any surprises with his new solar system. Pitzrick said they just hooked it up last week, and it appears one section is not hooked up properly. He noted we have talked about SafeLane®, which is a surface put on top of blacktop to reduce the amount of road salt needed. It was developed in Michigan and is licensed by Cargill. Some of the research studies showed there is improved safety on the roads if it is used. The workshop was adjourned at 6:50 PM.