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Parks and Recreation - 11/19/1979 1979 NOVEMBER 19 , MINUTES CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE II AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, NOVEMBER 19, 1979 7:30 P.M. , CITY'HALL COMMISSION MEMBERS: Richard Anderson, Chairperson; David Anderson, Steve Fifield, Robert Johnson, Robert Kruell, George Tangen, Larry VanMeter COMMISSION STAFF: Robert Lambert, Director of Community Services Approx. Time to Begin Item 7:30 I. ROLL CALL II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 7:35 III. MINUTES OF OCTOBER 15, 1979 IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND CON1MUNICATIONS None V. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS A. Reports of Commissioners None B. Reports of Staff 1. Development Proposals 7:40 a. Sutton First 8:00 b. Valley Knolls 2nd 8:20 c. Willow Creek Farm 8:40 d. Prairie Village Professional 9:00 2. Winter- Outing Brochure 9:15 3. Mini Rinks 9:25 4. Results of Bond Referendum 9:35 5. Council Report a. Set date for meeting with the Council (2 or 3 dates) b. Discuss items for agenda VI. OLD BUSINESS C 9:45 A. Award Bids for Improvements to Roof on Stable I Parks, Recreation & Natural -2- Nov. 19, 1979 i . Resources Commission 9:50 B. Award Bids for Sanitary Sewer Hook-Up at Bryant Lake Stables 9:55 C. Petition for Lowering Floodplain/Purgatory Creek and Proposal for Land Planning Services VII. NEW BUSINESS 10:15 A. Request Authorization to Sell Small House on Grill Proper 10:30 VIII. ADJOURMENT r APPROVED MINUTES ( EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Monday, November 19, 1979 7:30 P.M. , City Hall COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Richard Anderson, Chairperson; David Anderson, Steve Fifield, Robert Johnson, Robert Kruell , George Tangen, Larry VanlHeter COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: None COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: Robert Lambert, Director of Community Services; Sandy Werts, Recreation Supervisor; Steve Calhoun, City Park Planner OTHERS PRESENT: Michael Sutton, Lance Norderhaus, Dick Dahl , E.P. News I. ROLL CALL The meeting was called to order by Chairperson Richard Anderson at 7:30 p.m. II . APPROVAL OF AGENDA Additions: VI.D. Valley View Road - Fifield VII.B. Elm Wood - R. Anderson MOTION: Dave Anderson moved, aind Fifield seconded, to approve the agenda as published and ammended. The motion passed unanimously. III . MINUTES OF OCTOBER 15, 1979 Changes: Page 2, para.2: "should seek engineering study proposals rather " para.8: "Watershed District Engineer approved MOTION: Tangen moved to approve the minutes as revised and VanMeter seconded. The motion passed with Dave Anderson abstaining. IV. PETITIONS,REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS None V. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS A. Reports of Commissioners None B. Reports of Staff 1. Development Proposals / a. Sutton First Lambert noted that the only recreational issue was the proposed trail Minutes--Parks, Recreation & approved November 19, 1979 Natural Resources Commission -2- Tangen asked who would be responsible for the maintenence of this trail . Lambert described the proposed pedestrian trail as a grassy pathway; it is not the intention of the City to develop it in any manner, with a possible exception of boundary markers of some type. The actual maintenence will be shared by adjoining property owners. R. Anderson questioned whether the walking distance via the trail would actually be the shortest route to school and park for the pedestrians. After studying the map he was satisfied that it is. He stated that the trail must be clearly marked, so that it remains trail property. Tangen stated that this type of agreement must be spelled out in the developer's agreement. Kruell questioned whether the developer intends to maintain the existing home on lot 4, or if he plans to replace •it. ro Sutton indicated that the home will be maintained at this time, but he ultimately hopes to build a new home on the lot. He asked the Commission if he could expect a reduction in the Cash Park Fee if he were to dedicate the trail property. Kruell explained the position of the Commission regarding land donations as per the ordinance, and he should not expect a reduction in fees. Tangen answered Sutton's concerns about meeting frontage requirements, explaining that by using an easement rather than dedication, the lot size does not change. MOTION: Tangen moved to recommend to the Council approval of Sutton First development proposal per the staff recommendation in the memorandum of November 15, 1979, including a ten foot trail provision between lots 1 and 2, either by dedication with the City being responsible for trail maintenence), or by easement (with the adjacent homeowners sharing responsibility for maintenence), and also to require that the Cash Park Fee be applicable to all lots at the time the building permit is issued. R. Anderson seconded the motion, which passed. b. Valley Knolls 2nd Lambert explained that the plat for this development proposal had been approved several years ago, subject Ltb the upgrading of Duck Lake Road. Since this has occurred, the landowners are ready to proceed. He recommended, however, that the commission consider requiring a walk or trail along both sides of the road. Kruell agreed that an off-road trail will be needed, especially since the Crosstown interchange will occur on Duck Lake Road. He questioned whether a two-lane street with a 30 m.p.h. speed limit would be adequate for traffic. He noted it certainly won't handle bike and pedestrian traffic too, especially at rush hour peaks. He felt a 5 foot concrete sidewalk would be inadequate. Lambert explained that the five foot walk was intended for pedestrians, 1 Minutes--Parks, Recreation & approved November 19, 1979 k , Natural Resources Commission -3- C and that bikes should be able to use the street. He noted that pedestrians on bike trails face dangers also. He added that if more traffic is expected, then it is reasonable to require wider trails, or a trail and a sidewalk. R. Anderson noted that a two-lane street with an on-off ramp to 62nd will generate enough traffic so bikers would be in danger if they were required to ride in the street. He asked if the City will make the trail connection for the portion of the trail not included in the plan. Lambert told him the City could contract to have it done at the same time the rest of the trail is being constructed. He also noted that there should be room to construct the trails within the right-of-way, and that is easiest to do before other development is complete. Tangen felt that an 8 foot trail would be more reasonable than a sidewalk. With schools so close, and since the road will act as a connector, he reasoned that older children will probably be using the trail to get to school and the park, and most will use bikes. He suggested that the City should require an 8 foot asphalt trail on the west side of the road at this time, and require a five foot f sidewalk on the east side when that development occurs. i MOTION: Tangen moved to recommend that the Council approve the Valley Knolls 2nd Addition proposal as revised in the staff memorandum of November 15, 1979; to include an 8 foot asphalt trail on the west side of Duck Lake Road as far as Duck Lake Trail , with the City responsible for the connecting segment of the trail . Kruell seconded, and the motion passed unanimously. c. Willow Creek Farm Tangen asked where the Cash Park Fees from this development would be used, since there is no neighborhood park serving the area. Lambert explained that the funds would be used for Community Parks, trails, etc. Kruell was concerned that the topography of the property would require extensive grading. Tangen pointed out that Recommendation #2 addressed that very concern. He added that the development proposal seemed well planned and in keeping with the present nature of the area. MOTION: Kruell moved to recommend to the Council approval of the Willow Creek Farm development proposal per the staff memorandum of November 15, 1979. Tangen seconded the motion, which carried unani- mously. d. Prairie Village Proffessional Lance Norderhaus briefly described the proposed professional building and 45 unit building intended to house elderly residents. The developers plan to comply with necessary conditions in order to qualify for Minutes--Parks, Recreation & approved November 19, 1979 Natural Resources Commission -4- Section 8 rental subsidy for low and moderate income elderly. Lambert suggested that the developers may wish to consider a bike trail parallel to Highway #5 which would go as far as the shopping center, rather than through the proposed parking lots, as presently planned. j Tangen questioned the planning staff recommendation not to charge the Cash Park Fee on the 45 units of housing for the elderly. He noted that the City presently spends considerable funds to benefit the elderly. He was not convinced that waiving the Cash Park Fee would benefit the residents - it may only benefit the developer. Lambert explained`thatin order to make the project qualify for Section 8 funds, the price must be kept at a certain level . Staff was trying to reduce the total cost so the rental will be based at a lower rate. Kruell asked for a financial analysis. If it could be shown that the developer is also taking a cut i'n profit to make the project work, then the City should waive the Cash. Park Fee. The City should be reluctant to do so, however, until this can be shown. Tangen felt reluctant to set a precedent of this kind without more information. He suggested that rather than waive the entire Cash Park Fee, the commercial rate could be charged-resulting in less than half the normal fee. Dave Anderson asked if the use may change in the future, or if any of units might be rented at market value at some point. Norderhaus explained that restrictions prohibited this as long as it is being subsidized, R. Anderson expressed concern about unanswered questions, and stated that he would like more information before making a decision. He asked how waiving the Cash Park Fee would insure lower rent, and if a trail could be built along Highway #5. He agreed with Tangen, that the Commission would be setting a precedent, and should have all the N facts and information available. MOTION: Tangen moved to recommend tabling this item until the next 9 meeting, when more information could be brought to the Commission. Dave Anderson seconded, and the motion passed unanimously. A recess was called at 9:15. 2. Winter Outing Brochure Sandy Werts presented her report and asked the Commissioners for comments and/or suggestions on winter activities. She noted that she is trying to organize a cross country ski race as a community event. r Minutes--Parks, Recreation & approved November 19, 1979 Natural Resources Commission -5- Tangen asked if cross country trails would be groomed i'n the City this winter. Lambert told him that he is not recommending it it for several reasons. The trail groomer authorized by the Commission was cut from the budget. Carver County did such a poor job of grooming trails last year he felt the City would be wasting money if they even considered contracting with them again. This leaves the department with no proper equipment.. i ( Secondly;, due to the lack of proper access, it would be impossible to facilitate skiers at Bryant Lake Park (where the department attempted to provide groomed trails last year). The new access.•road..w 1It open'Ethe­-pa'rk for this type of use in the future, however. R. Anderson stated that this would disappoint too many people. He stated that accountability to citizens is important, and by reducing services, that accountability is reduced. Lambert pointed out that it would be better to wait until the department has the equipment and can do a good job providing the service, rather than trying to just get by this year. Also, you must have access to the trails before you can offer them to the public. Fifield noted that to temporarily suspend the use of part of the park during construction is a small price to pay for a well designed facility which would be operational for years, and provide quality recreational opportunities. C Tangen suggested that the City could put more emphasis into the ski trails at Edenvale. Werts noted that Edenvale is to be the location of Journey Sports, offering Cross country ski lessons and rentals. Also, the school 's ski-team uses the facility for meets, etc. ,and sets a course and trails at the golf course, Dave Anderson suggested that staff consider the area at the Preserve, and Anderson Lakes as another possible location for trails. R. Anderson also suggested Staring Lake. Johnson suggested the Commission request staff to obtain a groomer as soon as possible--this year or next, and to investigate and plan alternate trails,since Bryant Lake cannot be used this year. 3. Skating Rinks Werts noted to the Commission that she was recommending shortening the hours by opening one half hour later - in hopes to accomodate more qualified rink attendants. She also asked for a formal cold weather closing policy. The skating lesson program will close at -25� wind chill . R. Anderson asked if the hockey coaches could check out a key to hold practice if the wind chill goes below -250. Werts indicated that it would be difficult to manage and operate the rinks with keys issued to many individuals. i r _ Minutes--Parks Recreation & approved November 19, 1979 Natural Resources Commission -6- ( Dave Anderson noted that coaches could call in at a designated time if the rink attendants could limit phone use so the calls could get through. Kruell agreed that the keys should be kept under the City's responsibility. He felt that the coaches could call if they intended to hold hockey practice on nights that exceeded -250 wind chill ; and the rink attendants should supervise telephone use. Dave Anderson suggested that Public Safety should be asked to check out rinks each night to insure proper closing. There was discussion concerning the difficulty in finding qualified rink attendants. Werts asked the Commission for help in recruiting potential attendants. Kruell suggested that staff consider adding another mini-rink in the Eden Gate area, since he felt there is considerable demand from this area for a facility. Lambert told him the mini-rinks are becoming harder to maintain as the City increases the number of lighted, attended rinks. He did agree to look into the possibility, however. MOTION: Johnson moved, and Fifield seconded, to expand the mini-rink program to nine rinks. The motion passed unanimously. C MOTION: Dave Anderson moved to recommend that the City rinks use -300 F. wind chill as the final closing temperature, and -200 wind chill as the temperature at which a coach must call to hold a rink open for practice. Motion died for lack of a second. MOTION: Johnson moved to recommend that all City rinks close automatically at -250 wind chill , as measured by WCCO AM radio. The motion was seconded by Fifield, and passed with R. Anderson and Dave Anderson opposed. 4. Results of Bond Referendum Lambert reported that the Mayor had requested that the Council be included in the planning process, which will begin now. MOTION: Tangen moved that the Commission go on record commending the voters of Eden Prairie, the Bond Referendum Committee, and the Co-Chairpersons of that committee, Jerry Kingrey and Jerry Wigen, for the successful bond issue. The Commission hopes to be able to fulfill the dreams and wishes of the citizens with these funds. An open letter through the Eden Prairie News should be written. VanMeter seconded the motion. DISCUSSION: Dave Anderson recommended that the Commission should send letters to Jerry Wigen and Jerry Kingrey thanking them for their many hours of work. R. Anderson reported that the mayor is doing this, but the Commission should send personal letters al:;o. An open letter of appreciation through the local paper would also be appropriate. Minutes--Parks, Recreation & approved November 19, 1979 Natural Resources. Commission -7- i I VOTE: The motion passed with Kruell abstaining. i Fifield expressed disappointment in the percentage of voters that came to the polls. 5. Council Report Lambert reported that the Council , at their November 6, 1979 meeting, requested the Commission to propose two or three possible dates for a special joint meeting. Kruell asked what the purpose of this meeting would be. i R. Anderson replied that they should discuss such things as implementation of bond sales, establishing building committees, hiring of an architect, etc. The three dates offered by the Commission were: Thursday, November 29, 1979; Saturday, December 1, 1979; and Tuesday, December 11, 1979. Tangen commented that he would like to see an early notification of the meeting, since the Commission would not meet before two of the suggested dates. R. Anderson suggested that since the referendum concerns were the highest priority at this time, the discussion should be limited to that topic. C_ Tangen agreed, noting that other topics should be considered after March 1, 1980, when new commissioners are appointed. Tangen left the meeting at 11:00 p.m. VI. OLD BUSINESS A. Award Bids for Improvements 'to Roof on Stable at•Bryant'Lake Park R. Anderson asked how the use factor at the stable had changed for Eden Prairie residents since the new lease had been implemented. Lambert replied that there was no change from the prior lease--riding lessons, hay rides, etc. were still availab.le. i MOTION: Dave Anderson moved to recommend that the Council award the contract to Peterson Maintenence Corporation in the amount of $13,750.00 for the j repair of the barn roof. Johnson seconded the motion, which passed, with R. Anderson abstaining, and Kruell voting "nay". B. Award Bids for Sanitary Sewer Hook-Up at Bryant Lake Stables Lambert reported that the City had received five bids ranging from $13,000 to $38,000. Kruell asked if bids had been solicited from any contractors already working in Eden Prairie. r - Minutes--Parks, Recreation & approved November 19, 1979 Natural Resources. Commi.rision -8- C Lambert told him that they had provided some of the bids. Dave Anderson asked how this expense would affect the department's budget. Lambert told him there would be no effect, since the Vo-tech agreed to pay whatever Metropolitan Council would not fund. MOTION: Dave Anderson moved to recommend that the Council award the contract to Sebesta Construction in the amount of $13,205.00, since they were the lowest bidder. VanMeter seconded, and the motion passed , with Kruell opposed. C. Petition for Lowering Floodplain/Purgatory Creek and Proposal for Landplanning Services j Lambert explained that in order to determine the best open space use of the Purgatory Creek Floodplain, south of Highway #5, a study should be done. A detailed study, such as that proposed by Brauer & Associates would be quite expensive. Most of the landowners involved prefer to see a more conceptual study to be done by the City Staff. Dave Anderson expressed concern about overloading the staff, since they will certainly be busy with referendum committments. i Lambert agreed that they would be very busy, but projected that within six months time, a study of this type could probably be completed. If the landowners desire a more detailed study, they will have to come to the Council with a petition. MOTION: Kruell moved to recommend that the Council direct staff to study the property in relation to possible land uses and report back to the Commission by June of 1980; the higher floodplain will be retained while the study is being completed. DISCUSSION: Fifield noted that marsh areas offer many benefits through natural uses; development is not necessary to justify its existence. Kruell observed that lowering the floodplain will increase the building surface of the property. Lambert added that this will be an importnat consideration in the building of the ring road for the Center. VOTE: All in favor, the motion passed unanimously. D. Valley View Road Fifield asked for an update on the planned extension of Valley View Road past the new high. school . Lambert reported that the school district was opposed to having the road construction done in three phases; now two phases are being discussed. He noted that since the Round Lake Park bids for grading are ready to be let, it would be nice to see the road and park grading done on one contract. Minutes--Parks, Recreation & approved Novemver 19, 1979 Natural Resources Commi.s,sJon -g- C'III. NEW BUSINESS A. Request Authorization to Sell Small House on Grill Property Lambert reported that staff is recommending the sale and removal of the small house on the Grill property, since it has no historical value, and the tenant moved from the residence on November 1, 1979. MOTION: Dave Anderson moved to recommend that the Council authorize the sale of the small house on the Grill property, as per staff recommendation in the memorandum of November 15, 1979. Seconded by Kruell , the motion passed unanimously. B. Elm Wood R. Anderson reported that he had been told that the DNR had done a study that determined the value of wood. In an effort to reduce oil consumption, the waste of diseased elm wood should be reviewed. He noted that he would like to obtain the report and review it. Lambert told him that the Metropolitan Council was going to take action in this direction. He projected that within six months diseased elm will not be buried or burned. Landfills are being filled, and burning creates pollution while wasting a valuable natural fuel resource. Lambert recommended that the community should consider locating a temporary C site where trees can be hauled and de-barked. R. Anderson requested that the Commission receive more information on this topic at the next meeting. VIII. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 11:45 p.m. Respectfully Submitted, Georgia Jes.sen, Recording Secretary