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Parks and Recreation - 11/20/1978 1978 NOVEMBER 69 20 MINUTES CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE _ r AGENDA tom, EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, NOVEMBER 6, 1978 7:30 P.M., CITY HALL C06A4ISSION MEMBERS: Richard Anderson, Chairperson; David Anderson Steve Fifield, William Gar.ens, Robert Johnson, Robert Kruell, George Tangen COMMISSION STAFF: Robert Lambert, Director of Community Services Approx. Time to Begin Item 7:30 I. ROLL CALL II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 7:35 III. MINUTES OF OCTOBER 16. 1978 IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS 7:40 A. Cecil Martin - 6585 Eden Prairie Road V. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS A. Reports of Commissioners 1. None B. Reports of Staff 1. Development Proposals 7:45 a. Barmil Search Neighborhood Center 8:00 b. Charlston Estates 8:20 2. Tot Lots - Centex and Bluff's West 8:30 3. Fall Leisure Program Update 8:40 4. Skating Rink Program 9:00 S. Winter Outing Brochure VI. OLD BUSINESS 9:15 A. Senior Citizen Transportation Plan Alternatives 9:45 B. Homeward Hills Park Status Report VII. NEW BUSINESS i 10:00 VIII. ADJOURNMENT r - a it IF APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, NOVEMBER 6, 1978 7:30 P.M. , CITY HALL COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Richard Anderson, Chairperson; David Anderson, William Garens, Robert Johnson, Robert Kruell , k George Tangen COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Steve Fifield COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services; Lf. Sandy Werts, Recreation Supervisor OTHERS PRESENT: Cecil Martin, David Shea, Eddie Frank, Lorena Marks, Don Berne, Al Dybier, Eden Prairie Sun; Richard Dahl , Eden Prairie News I. ROLL CALL ' il'"•gyp; Chairperson Anderson called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. ri f II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Addition of: V.B.2.b. Tot Lot Specifications - R. Anderson MOTION: Garens moved to approve the agenda with the addition. Tangen seconded, motion carried unanimously. Fw III. MINUTES OF OCTOBER 16, 1978 MEETING Pg. 2, final paragraph, add: The motion was seconded, and passed. MOTION: Garens moved to approve the minutes of October 16,1978 as published and amended. Motion was seconded by Johnson, and carried unanimously. IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. Cecil Martin - 6585 Eden Prairie Road ita_ Lambert was contacted by Cecil Martin concerning the possible sale of 2 ; acres of his property along Purgatory Creek to the City for park purposes. Mr. Martin was present to answer questions. R. Anderson asked about the location. Lambert pointed out that it is adjacent to two lots owned by the City and would provide a connection between Eden Prairie Road and Park Terrace Drive along the Creek. Lambert also ex- plained what has happened to date with Purgatory acquisition. The City has been acquiring much of this land through tax forfeiture and dedication. Mr. Martin feels the land is worth $15,000/acre. !;f, Kruell asked what percentage was floodplain? Mr. Martin answered that al- though much of the land is now under water, it is due mostly to the beaver dams, and they will be removed. Kruell suggested the possibility of taking a land donation credited against taxes. Mr. Martin stated he was not interested in tax breaks, only in k _ 7 iF Minutes - Parks, Recreation & -approved Nov. 6, 1978 i Natural Resources Commission -2- selling his property. Y' MOTION: Kruell moved that the City recognize Mr. Martin's offer to sell property, and consider it along with the other possible park lands when they have the resources to purchase park properties. R. Anderson seconded, and it carried unanimously. V. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS A. Reports of Commissioners I 1. None. k B. Reports of Staff F 1. Development Proposals r; a. Barmil Search Neighborhood Center h^ David Shea of Shea Architects was at the meeting to answer questions c: about their proposed neighborhood center to be located southwest of ' the Eden Prairie Center, northeast of T.H. 169 and Schooner Blvd. :, Lambert noticed that the sidewalks were not linked completely at the perimeter; he felt persons coming between Tudor Oaks and the Eden Prairie Center would like to use that walkway and he felt it should p; connect. Shea said this would be no problem, and was sure the con- nection could be made. - t Kruell asked whether the Planning Commission had approved the clus- tered building concept? He was told they had. D. Anderson asked when traffic lights would be installed at the inter- t' section on T.H. 169; and if there is a pedestrian path on Franlo? ag Lambert said there was no date set for traffic lights, and if Franlo t were ever to be upgraded he felt that a sidewalk would be desirable. ' R. Anderson questioned the drainage of runoff from the site. Shea explained that it would be tied in with the main system now being used by Eden Prairie Center. It is an internal system, which drains , into Lake Eden. R. Anderson pointed out that care must be taken not to disturb the natural drainage any further, as it pertains to Anderson Lakes. Too much may already have been diverted. MOTION: Tangen moved to approve the plan as presented with the pedes- trian system including the addition of the sidewalk connection along T.H. 169 south of the proposed Twin City Federal building. Kruell {' seconded, and the motion passed unanimously. C r, R. Anderson asked how the Commission could find out about drainage and its diversion as it pertains to Anderson Lakes. He felt the City has a tremendous investment in the area and was concerned about Iv Minutes - Parks, Recreation & -approved Nov. 6, 1978 _ Natural Resources Commission -3- the effect of future development on the balance of the lake's water level . Lambert suggested that the City Engineering Department could help, or the Commission could request a report from the Nine-Mile Creek ?� Watershed District. Kruell also suggested we determine what effect underground pumping into Neill Lake has on Anderson Lakes. 5 Yil R. Anderson turned the chair over to Garens. " 4� I-2 MOTION: R. Anderson moved to request a report from the Watershed District on the water level of Anderson Lakes, including the effects a of both drainage and diversion; also to determine the affect under- ground pumping to Neill Lake might have on Anderson Lakes' low r water level . Garens seconded, and the motion carried unanimously. f R. Anderson reassumed the chair. G r b. Charlston Estates Eddie Frank came to the meeting to discuss the proposed Charlston Estates development near reek p RileyY . j Kruell asked if there could be road access to the area being dedi- A cated to the City (along the Creek). Frank replied that the ravine T along the Creek bed is too signficant to allow this type of access. Lambert suggested that the area could be utilized as a picnic or I; resting point for someone using the trail along the Creek. Kruell questioned whether approval for 10 lots would automatically approve future subdivision. Lambert said that the initial approval would only apply to the 10 lots and any further subdivision would require future approval . MOTION: Tangen moved to approve the staff recommendation from the memorandum of November 3, 1978, on Charlston Estates. Garens seconded, and the motion carried unanimously. 4t: 2. Tot Lots ,a a. Centex and Bluffs West This was an information item showing the location of a possible tot- lot in the Centex proposal and 2 tot-lots in the Bluffs West 2nd Addi- tion. F' Garens asked about the cost of maintenance and how to make the Council aware of these costs. MOTION: Tangen moved that since neither tot-lot was requested by the C Commission, the Council should be advised that the Commission questions the necessity of tot-lots in developments such as Centex and Bluffs West. D. Anderson seconded, and the motion carried unanimously. r Minutes - Parks, Recreation & .approved Nov. 6,1978Natural Resources Commission -4- VI. at OLD BUSINESS A. Senior Citizen Transportation Plan Alternatives a Lorena Marks and Don Berne, both of the Eden Prairie Pioneers, were present to discuss the need for transportation for senior citizens. Mr. Berne pointed out that the proposed site of the senior citizen cen- ter is remote and this increases the need for transportation even fur- ther. He also pointed out that the cost would probably not be excessive in comparison to other programs. Lambert outlined a plan for securing volunteer drivers and arranging a 3 month trial lease on the School District's 9 passenger van. D. Anderson ' asked if access to the van would be a problem for some of the people. `4 Lambert explained that this was one thing they would determine after a trial period. The lease could also help determine actual cost of such a program. Werts spoke on costs, pointing out that most existing programs of this type are on grants. They have run from 40-80�/ trip mile including } " staff and vechile cost. R. Anderson stated that much money is spent on recreation programs but little of it goes to the senior citizens. Some r" money should be provided. x. 10TION: Garens moved that the staff should seek volunteer driver com- mitments from community service organizations and contact the School District !' about possibly leasing their 9 passenger van for a 3 month trial period. D. Anderson seconded, and the motion carried unanimously. Mr. Berne suggested the possible sale of bird seed by the Pioneer Club to help finance the program. He also asked about establishing a founda- tion to enable people to make tax deductible contributions. Lambert said the City Attorney is already looking into the legal aspects µy of such a foundation. The Chairman declared a 5 minute recess at 9:30. V. RECOMMENDATION AND REPORTS B. Reports of Staff 2. Tot-Lots t� b. Tot-Lot Specifications J Lambert presented for Commission review specifications for tot-lots El as drafted by staff. These specifications could be used to prevent the acceptance of inferior parcels. The Commission expressed concern for the cost to the public incurred z by City maintenance. t'y MOTION: Tangen moved that the Commission recommend to the Council € that the specifications prepared by staff be ammended to include: 1) minimun size be 2.5 acres for the first 100 units and increased 1 Minutes - Parks, Recreation & approved Nov. 6, 1978 Natural Resources Commission -5- proportionally for additional units; 2) direct abutment to city streets. be provided for ease of access and maintenance; and 3) the maximum grade over 50% of the site cannot exceed 6% slope. These are to be interim specifications to be used until such a time as a policy on tot-lots is developed by the Council . Garens Eu seconded, and the motion carried unanimously. CA' L 3. Fall Leisure Program Update k-v� Lambert said this was an information item with Werts available to answer questions. to p goal of clearing 15-20% s, Werts pointed out that the g "profit" over actual costs was met in most cases; the "year-round" programs are approxi- mately 75% self supporting. "+ YS !Xr Tangen asked if programs were provided at Cahill Elementary School? Werts explained that they are not now; however, many of the programs at Prairie View and Forest Hills were scheduled late enough to allow the participants to be driven to the programs after being bussed home. 4 No action required. 4. Skating Rink Program Werts suggested that the skating rink hours and wind chill policy z, remain the same as last year. The Department has received requests for r" 8 mini-rinks, which the staff recommends as the maximum. �I D. Anderson asked if the rinks could remain open past 9:OOp.m. to accom- modate hockey games which couldn't start until 8:00. Werts said this could be worked out with a schedule of games. i Kruell asked why Feb. 19 was chosen as the closing date and was there f still ice after that date? Werts said that approximately 50% of the time the ice is still good beyond that date, but it is difficult to commit past mid February because of the un-certain weather. 4� After a discussion concerning various complaints.-.by or_about. rink attendants, R. Anderson suggested that all complaints by or about rink attendants and employees should be forwarded to staff for appropriate action. rq Lambert discussed a possible problem concerning mini-rinks. The water truck is no longer safe and the new truck approved in the 1979 budget will probably not arrive until the first of the year. if MOTION: Kruell moved that the Commission approve the skating rink program and operating policies as outlined in the staff memorandum of Nov. 3, 1978 on Skating Rinks. Garens seconded, and the motion carried unanimously. 5. Winter Outings Werts presented some possible winter outings and asked for any suggestions. Suggestions by Kruell were: 1) a cross country ski race; 2) a "Blizzard Minutes - Parks, Recreation & approved Nov. 6, 1978 Natural Resources Commission -6- Day" at Round Lake Park; 3) Commission vs. staff hockey game. It was noted that there will no longer be a cross-country ski facility at Edenvale Golf Course. A suggestion was made to check with Don Peterson to see if the City could plow the parking lot and groom cross-country trails at Edenvale so that citizens can continue to use the area. E. K R. Anderson suggested that piling snow against the tennis court . fence at forest Hills School could prevent sliding accidents. No action required. @s c VI. OLD BUSINESS B. Homeward Hills Park Status Report Lambert presented to the Commission two alternatives for the Homeward Hills Park. With the larger site, much of the land was undesirable, requiring extensive fill and grading. The smaller site costs more per acre, but Lambert felt this may be the most desirable site. It is also possible, he felt, that the price may come down. No action required. e VII. ADJOURNMENT '1 The meeting was adjourned at 11:00 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Georgia Jessen Recording Secretary c S 4 APPROVED MINUTES t, EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION, AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION iy MONDAY, NOVEMBER 20, 1978 7:30 P.M. , CITY HALL COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Richard Anderson, Chairperson; David Anderson, ' Steve Fifield, Robert Johnson, Robert Kruell , George Tangen COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: — William Garens COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: Robert Lambert, Director of Community Services; Jim Jensen, City Park Planner; Sandy Werts, a. Recreation Supervisor OTHERS PRESENT: Betty and Len Uherka, Jerry Stulman, Janet Gerecke, Joan McKee, Kent and Julie Molde, Ryan Molde, Bruce Brill , Dean A. Holasek, Hakon Torjesen, Peter Sussman, Korsunsky- Krank-Erickson Architects; Lynne Forster, Ff League of Women Voters; Dick Dahl , E.P. News; r` Al Dybier; f.P, Sun T. ROLL CALL Chairperson Anderson called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. 4n II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA ;s Addition of VI. C. Cash Park Fee - Kruell MOTION: Tangen moved to approve the agenda with the addition; Kruell seconded; motion carried unanimously. , III. MINUTES OF NOVEMBER 6, 1978, MEETING ; Page 5, paragraph 4, under "Skating Rink Program", should read,"complaints by or about rink attendants", instead of "complaints about" or "complaints against". 41Y MOTION: Johnson moved to approve the minutes of -the November 6, 1978 meeting as published and amended. Motion was seconded by Kruell , and passed with Fifield abstaining. IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS None {. V. RECOMENDATIONS AND REPORTS A. Reports of Commissioners None Minutes - Parks, Recreation & approved Nov. 20, 1978 Natural Resources Commission -2- B. Reports of Staff i 1. Development Proposals a. Thrift-Way Grocery Store Bob Lambert introduced Mr. Peter Sussman from Korsunsky-Krank- Erickson Architects, who was here to answer questions about the proposed Thrift- Way Supermarket. He briefly described the location, their various landscaping and screening proposals, the drainage pattern, and the sidewalk they would construct. R. Anderson questioned the drainage as it would relate to Anderson Lakes. Lambert explained that the present pattern flows through a storm sewer system at West 78th north to Smetana Lake to Nine-Mile Creek. Kruell asked which alternative was recommended by the staff. He was told that alternative "D" was recommended by the Planning Staff. Mr. Sussman pointed out that the planning commission had also recommended lighting changes, which they were working on. MOTION: Kruell moved to recommend approval to the Council according to Planning Staff Memo of October 16, 1978, recomendation "C", incorporating all ten items. Motion seconded by Fifield. DISCUSSION: Mr. Sussman pointed out that the Planninq Commission had dropped number seven from consideration at their last meeting, feeling it was not applicable. Kruell felt that it was best to leave the item intact, since the entire picture of adjacent land use is important. I VOTE: The motion passed unanimously. VI. OLD BUSINESS A. Bryant Lake Master Plan i Jim Jensen, City Park Planner, narrated a slide presentation to explain the planning process being used to develop Bryant Lake Park. There was an extensive description of the site, discussing such things as drainage, slopes, soil composition, ground water levels, and suitability for such thinas as septic tanks, building sites, and recreational possibilities. He then presented several maps showing development possibilities, incorporating many natural features and also considering the limitations of the site. DISCUSSION: Mr. Hakon Torjesen, 6605 Rowland Road, had a question about the depth the lake in regard to launching boats. He was told that the lake is good in most places, with the exception of the one area which has a low water level that continues for several hundred feet from shore. Lambert expanded on this, pointing out that it would also make a poor swimming beach. It would be difficult to supervise Lambert explained briefly the general use relationships and how such things i Minutes-Parks, Recreation & approved Nov. 20, 1978 Natural Resources Commission -3- as poor soil and steep slopes prohibited development in many areas of the park. This leaves a few main areas suitable for concentrated recreation. i He pointed out that if a ballfield could be incorporated into the plan, his intent was to provide a field for casual use during picnics and other such gatherings. Lambert proposed that the commission consider hiring an unbiased park consultant to come in sometime in December, to make suggestions and to help make decisions about location of various facilities, access, super- vision, etc. Mr. Torjesen questioned the degree of supervision needed in the park, the projected budget, and control of access. Lambert replied that Bryant Lake Park is going to be a regional park, and is certainly not scheduled for completion in the next few years. Supervision will probably be required in two main areas; maybe one should be developed now, and the second at a later date. As for control , we should plan on building fences for controlled access. Ultimately, Lambert thought a full-time Park Director would be needed; someone who could live in a park house and supervise access, maintenence, etc. Kent Molde, 7040 Willow Creek Road, asked if existing residential areas will be considered when development begins. Lambert answered that active use areas would be removed from those residential areas; and that the natural buffer zones that now exist would be utilized. R. Anderson raised the question of boat launching on Bryant Lake. He felt that the future of boat use and launching on the lake should be decided !' before money is invested in development of launching facilities and 4 parking to accomodate cars with large boat trailers. Kruell pointed out that the topography of the park suggests we should make an intensive effort at developing passive recreation such as trails--but that first we should determine the type of use the park will receive before-we develop it. Lambert commented that out of 158 acres, only 10-15 acres would even be developed. Tangen suggested that winter use (cross-country skiing, ice-fishing, skating, etc.) should also be considered in the plan; and asked what provisions for parking in the winter could be made? Lambert agreed that year-round use is important. He suggested skiers could park in the stable parking lots, and the trails could begin there. The boat launch parking area could be used for lake access for fishing, skating, etc. The grade of the road could present a problem at times. Jerry Stillman, 6601 Golden Ridge Drive, and Vicky Windfeldt, 6621 Golden Ridge Drive, both addressed the problems caused by snowmobiles. Stillman felt that the park might be overused by snomnobilers, since most neighboring communities have banned them. Fifield pointed out that snowmobiles are now prohibited in city parks, and that should cover the problem. Minutes- Parks, Recreation & approved Nov. 20, 1978 Natural Resources Commission -4- Lambert agreed, saying that there was not enough acreage to successfully integrate snowmobilers and cross-country skiers. No action required. Chairperson R. Anderson called a ten minute break at 9: 15 p.m. B. Topics for Communication with the Council Lambert suggested that a few items, thoroughly discussed, would be a good goal . Tangen suggested that communication between the council and the commission i should have a high priority. At times, the council has not informed the commission about their reactions to commission suggestions, or reasons for their actions. The minutes of the council meetings are old before they are approved, published, and distibuted. Lambert offered to provide a summary of council actions and discussions concerning commission matters. R. Anderson pointed out that communications have suffered since the council representative to each commission was discontinued. Also, recommendations are received differently with each new council . Kruell asked if it would be appropriate to send questions to the council to advise them of the commission's concerns, and ask for their reactions. R. Anderson stated that discussion at the joint meeting should be an adequate means of receiving the council 's views. Tangen suggested that funding would be an important discussion topic. It could include Cash Park Fees, the future bond referendum, what kind of help is available for park aquisition, seed money and matching funds. MOTION: Tangen moved that a joint meeting between the Eden Prairie City Council and the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission take on January 29, 1979, to discuss: 1) Communications between the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission, and the City Council of Eden Prairie. 2) Funding for Parks and Recreation in the City of Eden Prairie. 3) Definition of goals for development of Mini Parks/ Tot Lots, Neighborhood Parks, Regional Parks, and Bike/Hike Trails. The motion was seconded by Dave Anderson. DISCUSSION: The question was raised as to whether specific questions should be included under each topic. It was decided that this could be too time consuming. Also asked, should activities and programs be included? It was suggested that they could be discussed under "Funding" if anyone had a specific question. VOTE: Motion passed unanimously. I Minutes- Park, Recreation & approved Nov. 20, 1978 Natural Resources Commission -5- C. Cash Park Fee Kruell wanted to include this item on the agenda so that action could be taken on Cash Park Fees before the first January meeting. He also suggested a "flow sheet" containg all unfinished business be included with the commission packets. Lambert explained that he was going to have access soon to a survey of the cash park fees in other communities. He said he had an idea for a formula, and would put it together after receiving the survey and reviewing it;it should be included on the next agenda. He recommended that the commission should act then to change the amount of the cash park fee, and change the ordinance at a later date, since that would require more time. 4 R. Anderson asked whether it could be done before the first January meeting of the council ; Lambert assured him that it could. Tangen recommended that the staff bring this information to the next commission meeting. ' VII. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 10: 10 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Georgia Jessen ' Recording Secretary u i l rn GD