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Parks and Recreation - 05/16/1977 1977 MAY2 , 16 MINUTES CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, MAY 2, 1977 7:30 P.M., CITY HALL COMMISSION MEMBERS: Richard Anderson, Steve Fifield, William Garens, Jerry Kingrey, Robert Kruell, Randy Retterath, Mary Upton COMMISSION STAFF: Marty Jessen, Director of Community Services Approx. Time to Begin Item 7:30 I. ROLL CALL II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA III. ORGANIZATION A. Bylaw Amendment IV. MINUTES OF APRIL 18, 1977 MEETING V. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. B. VI. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS A. Reports of Commissioners 1. 2. B. Reports of Staff 8:00 1. Everything Goes 8:10 2. Flying Cloud Airport Wolf Property Tennis Courts . Ice 8:30 3. Round Lake Site Plan VII. OLD BUSINESS 8:45 A. Round Lake Water Quality c_ B. Parks, Recreation $ -2- Mon., May 2, 1977 Natural Resources Commission VIII. NEW BUSINESS 9:00 A. Tennis Court Use 1. Eden Prairie Racketeer Club 2. Regulations 9:15 IX. ADJOURNMENT r <i APPROVED PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, MAY 2, 1977 7:30 PM, CITY HALL ; MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairperson Richard Anderson, William Garens, Randy Retterath, Jerry Kingrey (8:00), Steve Fifield, Mary Upton (8:00), and Robert Kruell ' " 4 STAFF PRESENT: Marty Jessen, Director of Community Services Chris Enger, City Landscape Architect r. 1 Sandy Werts, Recreation Supervisor ' ! e OTHERS PRESENT: Al Gebhart, Barr Engineering, and John Gertz, Preserve 4 `, Chairperson Anderson called the meeting to order at 7:13 PM. `� { II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Addition of: V.A. Mayor Penzel. VII.B. Pillsbury Development Proposal , , C. Purgatory Creek MOTION: Garens moved to accept the agenda as amended, seconded by Retteratth. Motion carried unanimously. CV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONSf A. Mayor Penzel y k` Mayor Penzel addressed the Commission to express thanks. �Lnd..appreciation t to the members for their willingness to serve the community, from the City Council and from the people. In addition, he offered assistance individually e or in a group in discharging the obligations they had taken on, and encouraged s interaction between the Commission and the Council. : d Mayor Penzel responded to the question asked by Anderson as to what was , the intention of the Council as far as communication. He explained that a spot on the agenda would be provided under "Reports from the Commissions" for specific reports from the Commissions. He also encouraged members to ` appear before the Council to make verbal any concerns or desires. Anderson requested that a certain time be set for. Commission members so they would know approximately when they would appear on the agenda. Penzel res- ponded that he would try-to get the Commission Reports scheduled at the be- ginning of the meetings, before the public hearings. Kruell expressed concern that by appearing at the meeting, it would appear as pressure or lobbying. Penzel explained that by making the option available it would permit discussion to take place, as many times the printed work does r' not show the reasoning behind why certain decisions are made. Garens commented that he has appeared - before the Council when he felt strongly about an issue, and also has presentea the minority position to the Council. r i Minutes - Parks, Rec. and (approved Natural Resources Commission - 2 - May 2, 1977 l Mayor Penzel commentedthat there is a real policy question that needs to be re- solved with non-continuity between the Council and Commission and recommended joint meetings even though there was no pressing matter. Anderson offered help from the Commission on the occasions of great neighborhood issues where there is a pressure group before the Council, and there is a need for the other side of the issue to be presented. VI. B. Reports of Staff 1. Everything Goes Jessen reported that the event will take place on Friday, May 20, at the Minnetonka Sr. High at 7:15 PM, with competition among eleven municipalities, all of which have boundaries within Minnetonka. He said that the first prize would be approximately $3,500 for a project designated by the community for park acquisition or development. He continued that Tom Snicker, last years team captain, had agreed to be captain again this year, and that the first practice was scheduled for + the upcoming Saturday at 10:00. i VII. B. Pillsbury Development Proposal - See pgs. 7 - 9. i VII. A. Round Lake Water Quality �- Mr. Al Gebhart, representative of Barr Engineering, spoke to the 1971-72 water quality monitoring done in the lakes of Eden Prairie, Bloomington, and Chanhassen, resulting in the fact that Round Fake had the best water quality as far as algae count, water clarity, etc. . He explained the process whereas a lake dies, and it eventually becomes a marsh. He con- tinued that in 1972 the depth of clarity was 15 to 16 ft. on an average basis and was considered astounding, and after the monitoring in 1975, the water clarity is now only down to 7 ft. , but is still . number one in the water-shed district although algae has increased. He spoke to the discussion on doing a joint study with the City to see what the reason for the change was, and suggested some treatment to preserve it as a swimming resource. Various reasons were discussed, such as agrigultural and urban run-off. Chairperson Anderson ruled that the Commission would have to act on the Bylaw Amendment issue with full membership, therefore, the present issue would have to be'set aside until the vote was taken. III. A. Bylaw Amendment The following changes wereproposed: favorable vote of 2/3 rather than five members needed to modify or amend the Bylaws; majority of members rather than five members needed to call a special meeting; and compliance with federal regulations by the change of all references to sex as far as chairpersons etc. were concerned. MOTION: Garens moved to approve amended Bylaws, including the stated changes. Kruell seconded, motion carried unanimously. Fifield left the meeting at 9:30 PM. r .. i Minutes - Parks, Rec. and approved Natural Resources Commission - 3 - May 2, 1977 A. Round Lake Water Quality (cont'd) Anderson asked whether pumping water into the lake could be a solution. Gebk:art responded that it would get oxygen into the lake, but would not solve the algae growth. Jessen spoke to the proposed study a few years ago, and he said the Water- Shed District is in favor of studying Round Lake as a recreational feature, and would provide half of the funds for the Study. i Garens suggested pumping water out of the lake, which would. be high in nutrients, and use for watering gardens & athletic fields, and pump well water back in which will contain :relatively few nutr.rend is, -'Geblzart felt that sounded reasonable, but questioned for how long, and he added tna-t ne xeels we should be able to find a solution because it is a small lake. ICruell asked where Round Lake was on the list of priorities. Jessen responded that it is high priority for at least five years. i� MOTION: Garens moved that we recommend to the the Council to have the Staff investigate the feasibility of a detailed study to preserve the water quality in ?' Round Lake, to insure it as a recreational swimming area. Kingrey seconded. t, Jessen advised that we know the watershed district will fund half of the Study, ,, `- therefore, we should recommend to have it done. AMENDED MOTION: Garens moved that we recommend to the Council to undertake a detailed study to preserve the water quality in Round Lake to insure it as a recreational swimming area. Kingrey seconded. Anderson asked Gebhart whether they felt it was a savable lake. Gebhart answered affirmative, because it is a small lake. VOTE: Motion carried unanimously. Chairperson Anderson ruled that the meeting would continue until 10:30 PM, after which a decision would have to be made as to whether to continue with the agenda or adjourn. a ! VIII. NEW BUSINESS A. Tennis Court Use 1. Eden Prairie Racketeer. Club - } Werts spoke to the communication from the Racketeer Club requesting use of the courts on Sundays, 12:00 to 2:00 PM on four courts for mixed doubles, and the use of two courts for one hour once a week for drills. She added that any citizen who name to play could be paired up and had to be allowed (` to play. She said that in addition, they had requested some tournament uses, Schooner Day, Corn Roast, and an additional date in July, and want to be able to publicize through the use of signs and in the "Happenings". Minutes - Parks, Rec. and ,approved Natural Resources Commission = 4 May 2► 1977 Werts responded to questions on dates of their intended use -beginning May 15; kinds of signs - 3 small signs; and fees - no charge, and anybody can be a member. MOTION: Kruell moved that we give the Racketeer Club approval, providing they again understand that anyone can take part. Upton seconded, motion carried unanimously. A. Tennis Court Use 2. Regulations Jessen spoke to letter received by Counci.lperson Pauly from Mr. John A. Bridge, 7611 Atherton Way, suggesting the use of the courts be operated on a reserva- tion basis, with a charge, because there is such a problem with the turnover of courts. Werts briefly outlined the present uses of the courts, and spoke to the reser- vation suggestion, suggesting a $2.00 fee per court, which would be used to pay the monitor supervising the play. Anderson expressed reservation on getting into this type of schedule, and charging a fee. He asked whether kids would have to pay. Werts responded that the fees would be charged only from 4:00 to 9:00 PM during the week, and from 9:00 to 5:00 PM on Saturdays and Simdays. carens spoke to the 1�174 regulations attempting to regulate courts for adult use. Kingrey suggested a,skingthe Racketeer organization to provide people to manage i the courts during the prime time hours. Garens left at 10:00 PM. Various points . were discussed such as: beach house receiving the reserva- tion calls; whenever people were waiting to play, only doubles would be allowed; the suggestion of having tennis instructors handle reservations; the amount of money to be charged; and the possibility of changing of players"on the hour". Kruell, .referring to the past rules, asked how that had worked. Kingrey commented that the last part of the summer, he had the least amount of trouble. Jessen felt that we have discouraged tennis playing because of unavailability of courts, and he feels the present system is just not working. Kingrey asked who might be available to stop in for a few weeks at the beginning of the season to point out anyone flaunting the rules. Jessen answered they have a couple of students who could handle that. It was agreed to have the rules posted, as previously, with the students referred to by Marty handli.ngthe courts for a period. of time, and Werts reporting back in �1 five weeks. 2 j Minutes - Parks, Rec. and �;approved May 2, 1977 Natural Resources Commission 5 - B. Reports of Staff 2. Flying Cloud Airport Tennis Courts - Enger showed an overlay of the area and spoke to his memo rportsGom. dated April 15, relating to the offer by to construct courts and allow us use of the land. He located the area as east of the Flying Cloud fields, with one access and a possibility of a second, and would be separated from the ballfields by fencing. He continued that the lights r to 40 ft. high, but they could use the poles. He they are offering are 30 said we will provide our own labor, and use Flying Cloud Labor toput up the fencing. Kingrey agreed that the laying of asphalt for tennis courts is an extremely sensitive job. He questioned an 8 ft. fence as being tooahort. Enger said they would go to 10 or 12 ft. . that the time was 10:30, and asked Commission whether they wanted Anderson noted 1 An continue noted adjourn. Commission members agreed to take action on present issue under discussion and on the Round Lake Site. Jessen added that he feels C•.E.T.A. is going to be possible and that we will get help with the courts. MOTION: Kingrey moved to recommend to the Council that we look at this offer favorably, without the lights. Upton seconded. Kruell asked to amend motion to recommend appropriate action for maximum number of courts. Kingrey withdrew motion, Upton withdrew second. MOTION: Kingrey moved that we recommend to the Council to proceed with the construction of four, 'unlighted tennis courts. Upton seconded, motion carried unanimously. 3. Round Lake Site Plan Jessen spoke to the action of the Council approving the motion passed by the PR and NR Com. on Round Lake. Enger pointed out positioning of the fields, and explained the reason for their placements. Kruell asked whether the boat launching facility was necessary. Jensen res- ponded it was necessary for funding purposes. er aid would Kingrey theasoftballed t the fields andg was on that they shouldtbenreadygforsplaytearly in the with th spring next year. 1 Kingrey asked whether there would be a problem with beer drinking schoolment property. Jessen responded that it would be worked out through joint i Minutes - Parks, Rec. and approved Natural Resources Commission -' 6 - May 2, 1977 1, with the school -district and does not see it as a problem. Enger spoke to the orientation and reusability of the fields, and to the cluster method used, with the service center located in accessible position for more than one field. He commented that the parking lot would have to be about 300 ft. from the fields. Upton left at 10. 55 PM. MOTION: Kruell moved to recommend to the Council to proceed with the outlined plan of the Round Lake area as presented, and that the work be done as generally presented. Kingrey seconded, motion carried unanimously. Kruell commented that he would rather see lay out of the field coincide with the play, rather than how far we have to walk. Jessen responded that the playing would take priority. IX. ADJOURNMENT Kingrey moved to adjourn at lls00 PM, seconded by Retterath. Motion carried unanimously. Submitted by, Donna Stanley Recording Secretary Minutes - Parks, Rec. and - 7 - t � Natural Resources Commission }approved May 2, 1977 OLD BUSINESS B. Pillsbury Development Proposal Jessen spoke to presentation by Mr. Hanson, of the Pillsbury Co. , made at the April 4 meeting, and that we were led to believe that Pillsbury was proposing to dedicate all of the north shore, including the corridor along the lake, to k the City for open space. He said that the map he was alluding to tonight was received after the last meeting (April 18), and that it was not consistent with the Blacklock Nature Center at Anderson Lakes Park Concept Plan. He continued that the revised proposal contains a two part dedication of easements, which consists of a natural areas easement and buffer area, with approximately 64 acres committed to open space, but not to be under City control. Upton asked about the length of the easement. Jessen responded that the natural areas easement would be perpetual, and the buffer area would be for fifteen years. ; Kingrey expressed disappointment with the reversal, and suggested that the City might have been too eager to have Pillsbury in Eden Prairie. F Upton asked about the Preserve's agreement with the City when Pillsbury bought ' it from them. Mr. John Gertz, representing the Preserve, questioned how the Blacklock Study could take that amount of land away, and spoke to the large amount of money they had spent on changing the PUD. Jessen responded that Mr. Carter, who represented the Preserve at that time, stood up and expressed support for the Blacklock Study. Anderson added that a lot of time, effort, and money have gone into trying to r ' accomplish the Blacklock Plan, and added that he had listened to discussion by Mr. Blacklock and Mr. Carter, and he :feels that this is a complete switch from what the Preserve accepted. Commission members felt strongly that an agreement had been made and that it should be honored. C d` Garens commented that Eden Prairie has a reputation for being hard on developers, but he feels it will result in a more well planned and a better place to live, and added that it is going to take some participation from business. E i Kruell suggested approval of the minutes from the last meeting before taking , any action. MOTION: Garens moved to table this matter until we have completed approval of minutes from the meeting of April 18. Anderson seconded. Motion carried, with Kingrey voting "nay". ` IV. MINUTES OF APRIL 18, 1977 MEETING Pg. 1, para. 4, delete "motion carried unanimously." Minutes - Parks, Rec. and - 8 - Natural Resources Commission approved May 2, 1977 MINUTES OF APRIL 18, 1977 MEETING (cont'd) Pg. 4, para. 2, delete "so many years", add "frequently" after "that"; add "of the year" after "time". Pg. 5, last para., sent. 4, add "community" before "development"; add "we will never be able to acquire and develop at today's cost." after "growth". Pg. 7, para. 4, delete "Riley", add "Purgatory". it " to 10, delete "Making archery targets, and paying the teens with an archery course"; add "projects which utilize teen efforts, such as making archery targets, for which benefits derived could be in the form of an archery course." Pg. 9, last para., add "We had been told that we would receive a map and draft agreement prior to the meeting, and prior to the meeting we had not received the map or the draft agreement. We were led to believe from previous talks with Pillsbury that they would be in agreement with the Blacklock Nature Center at Anderson Lakes Park Concept Plan." Pg. 10, before paxa. 4, add "Purgatory/" before"Riley". MOTION: Kruell moved to accept Minutes of the April 18, 1977 as amended, seconded by Garens. Motion carried unanimously. S B. Pillsbury Development Proposal (con't) �A Anderson inquired who Mr. Hanson was in the Pillsbury Co. . Jessen answered that he was one of their top engineers, and that the large companies do not ; usually send their higher executives to make presentations of this nature. MOTION: Garens moved that we inform the Council that Pillsbury has reversed themselves on what we considered a mutual agreement, and we therefore recommend withdrawal of our approval of this proposal, until a compromise satisfactory to the City; based on the past presentation, can be reached. Retterath seconded. Motion carried unanimously. Kingrey suggested amendment to the motion of eliminating last part of the sentence after "City". Garens, after consideration, decided to leave motion as stated. Jessen said the impact on the City will be fairly substantial, and that our committment to the various funding agencies tb acquire title'. to the larger areas around the lake will be in trouble. I:ruell asked whether we have met with them. Jessen responded that we have met several times. K.ruell asked what the order of business was for the Council's next meeting. Jensen responded that the second reading for approval of this proposal was scheduled for that meeting, and asked for attendance by one of the Commission members to present a statement from the Commission. Upton agreed to represent the Commission at the Council meeting, since she had been present at original presentation by Pillsbury to the Commission. Jessen said the Council has raised the question of the Preserve not paying the "cash park fee", and has requested that we look at original PUD to see whether we would have been better off with that approach. Minutes - Parks, Rec. and 9 - Natural Resources Commission approved May 2, 1977 He added that better than half of the dedication line is on land bought by Pillsbury, and. that Pillsbury looks at it in the way that they did not make the original committment, and they do not intend to do it now. Anderson stepped down from the chair, with Vice-Chairperson Garens taking over the meeting. MOTION: Anderson moved that the present plan as presented by Pillsbury is a switch from the one given at the April 4 meeting, and is inconsistent with the Blacklock Plan. It is also the feeling of the Commission that the Pillsbury plan is favorable to our community, butsince the Commission places the highest priority on the Blacklock Study, the plan should be consistent with that Study. Kruell seconded. Anderson withdrew •the motion, with Kruell withdrawing his second. A five minute recess was called at 9:05 PM by Garens. Meeting was called back to order. Jessen read statement he had prepared for presentation •to the Council, and Commission members were in agreement with the content. Garens turned the meeting back over to Anderson. C .t AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION ? MONDAY, MAY 16, 1977 7:30 P.M. , CITY HALL COMMISSION MEMBERS: Richard Anderson, Steve Fifield, William ' Garens, Jerry Kingrey, Robert Kruell , Randy Retterath, Mary Upton COMMISSION STAFF: Marty Jessen, Director of Community Services Approx. Time to Begin Item i 7:30 I. ROLL CALL II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA III. MINUTES OF MAY 2, 1977 MEETING IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS, AND COMMUNICATIONS 7:45 A. Metro Systems Statement B. �. V. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS A. Reports of Commissioners 8:00 1 . Purgatory Creek - Anderson ' 2. B. Reports of Staff 8:15 1 . Gynmastics Program 8:30 2. Analysis of Large Scale PUD Park Contributions 8:45 3. Metro Airport Commission Wolf Property VI. OLD BUSINESS A. B. �. VII. NEW BUSINESS A. 9:00 VIII. ADJOURNMENT • APPROVED PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION C- MONDAY, MAY 16, 1977 7:30 PM, CITY HALL MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairperson Richard Anderson, William Garens, Jerry Kingrey, Robert Kruell, Steve Fifield, and Randy Retterath MEMBERS EXCUSED: Mary Upton STAFF PRESENT: Marty Jessen, Director of Community Services OTHERS PRESENT: Ann Kispert, Acting Director of Community Ed. , Mrs. Lyngdal, Mark Gonzales, E.P. News, and Lance Woodruff The meeting was called to order at 7:30 PM by Chairperson Anderson. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA The following additions were requested: V.A.2. MRPA meeting report - Kruell VI.A. Tennis Courts - Kingrey " B. Watering of trees - Kingrey " C. Maintenance of fields for youth baseball - Kingrey C VII.A. Water Hydrants - Kingrey B. Consideration on boat launching fees at Lakes Riley and Bryant - Jessen Garens moved to approve Agenda with additions, seconded by Retterath. Motion carried unanimously. III. MINUTES OF MAY 2, 1977 MEETING Pg. 3, para. 3, sent. 2; add "and athletic fields" after "gardens". 11 if to " to 3• delete "needed phosphorus." add "relatively few nutrients." Pg. g, para. 1, sent. 2; delete "the Flying Cloud Airport", add "Mr. Ed McGaa, representing the Metro Airports Commission,". Anderson spoke to the Motion passed by the PR & NR Commission on Bylaw Amendment, referrin- to the changes requested in the wording of the Ordinance in compliance with Federal regulations. MOTION: Garens moved to table the approval of the Minutes of the May 2, 1977 meeting until corrections were made. Retterath seconded, motion carried unani- mously. Chairperson Anderson ruled to consider the following item next on the Agenda. i:. Hei)or•L•s of Staff ' Program 1. Gymnastics Jerson spoke to the gymnastic committee formed at the request of this Commission last year, for the purpose of looking at what the people of r Minutes - Parks, Recreation Page Three and Natural Resources Commission - approved - May 16, 1977 Anderson asked whether it was the intention of Kispert to come here tonight with the idea of cooperating. Kispert responded that the program was already set up to run under Community Ed, and their request was an effort to cooperate with the City. MOTION: Garens moved that the PR and NR Commission recommend to the Council that the City assume the gymnastic program under cooperative basis with the Community Ed until Fall, at which time we will review it, and based upon what we have heard tonight, that a parents group will probably form and take it over. Retterath seconded. DISCUSSION: Retterath asked whether they are certain that a parents group will come about and whether we would continue operating it. Jessen responded that we t will evaluate it in the Fall, and that he and Mrs. Kispert are working together on forming the parents group. He added that the City has general blanket liability that will cover activities such as this. e r Kingrey asked for Jessen's opinion of the intention of the Motion. Jessen answered that he feels it is perfectly acceptable. Kingrey commented that he feels advised enough about the question to vote on it, but would abstain if the other members felt that he should, because of his late arrival. There was no objection from other members. Anderson expressed appreciation on the part of Kispert on her effort of cooperation s with the City, and spoke to Motion passed by the Commission on cooperation and communication between the City and Community Ed. VOTE: Motion carried, with Kruell voting "nay", because he felt we should define f the upgrading of activities that we will be getting requests for. IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS, AND COMMUNICATIONS A. Metro Systems Statement Jessen spoke to the Statement, which addressed certain aspects of the City's overall planning including recreation open space. He said that the Lake Riley Park recommendation and Council action of dropping Lake Riley from a 200 acre regional park to 4-0 acre community park has caused some conflict with our plans with the Metro Council. Garens reminded the Commission that the Commission has historically always been in favor of this as a regional park, and felt that their reversal was due to the pressure of the residents and of the new Commission members, who he felt were unaware of this. He added that he feels there is a lot of merit to a regional park. Kingrey expressed his opinion that he was definitely in favor of this as a regional park. MOTION: Retterath moved to reconsider the idea of Lake Riley as a regional park, to be considered at the next meeting, and with notification to resi- dents. Fifield seconded, motion carried unanimously. Kruell requested a comprehensive review on positions for the regional park and why the decisions went to a local park. Minutes - Parks, Recreation Page Two and Natural Resources Commission .approved May 16, 1977 k ! the community were looking for. He continued that an advanced, highly organized EZ development program was offered by the Developmental Gymnastics School located on Wallace Road, and they tried to join with the City in their program, but there was a misunderstanding on the -timing. He said that the School District's program incor- porated gymnastics as one of their activities. He spoke to three options: 1. Com- munity Ed continue -to sponsor this program; 2. Incorporate into the City program, which presently offers lower leval gymnastic program; 3. A parents group be formed r to handle the program themselves, which, he added, was"down the road" yet. ;s Jessen introduced Ann Kispert, Acting Director of Community Ed, to offer further information. Kispert spoke to 158 children in the program, and outlined briefly the schedule of lessons, adding that they are looking for the same kind of time tip structure because of working parents. Jessen asked to what extent should the City Recreation program be involved in this gymnastics activity, which is similiar to other programs we are offering. Anderson asked whether Community Ed felt that the program should be operated by the City. Kispert responded that Community Ed could continue the program through the summer and give the Commission a chance to study the question. She spoke to aA neighboring community programs in Hopkins.and Edina, which have parents boards, and A act as feeder programs -to the gymnastic programs in the schools. w Kruell spoke to comment by Jessen, -that the parents group was "down the road",and asked whether the idea was conveyed that the formation of a parents group was diffi-cult or impossible. Kispert responded that presently, the School District covers them for liability, and a parents group would need time to incorporate and need pro- tection. Kingrey arrived at 8:00 PM. Jessen commented that it was a question of timing, and that their program is entirely consistent with the programs of the City being offered year around. N Kispert added that the -owner has $8,000 worth of equipment at Forest Hills Elementary, and that he will use the high school equipment for the summer, and then move back to Forest Hills in the Fall. Garens commented that it was a good and worthwhile program, but was confused as to why the City was being asked to take it over. Kispert answered that they want an evaluation from the Commission as to where it would be best offered. Jessen explained that it would be the only Community Ed program offered for the sum- mer, and the question was whether the gymnastics program should be expanded through previous City program or should it remain with Community Ed. Kruell commented that the appropriate time to consider this wa;s last winter, when the total program was being considered, and felt it should be evaluated when we evaluate all of the City programs. Garens felt it made sense -to add it to the City programs, since Community Ed has only one program for the summer, and with the parents group taking over in the Fall. r Minutes - Parks, Recreation and Page Four Natural Resources Commission .approved May 16, 1977 l V. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS A. Reports of Commissioners 1. Purgatory Creek - Anderson Anderson requested that Jessen present background information on the issue. Jessen explained that the matter has been continued by the Council until the June 14 meeting, and they have asked for additional infor- mation on several points in their consideration of Hustad's Develop- ment Proposal on the Lower Purgatory Creek Sector and the Purgatory Creek Open Space Corridor Study which are; We are to look at an agree- ment with the current owners for acquisition of land within public ac- quisition areas; look at land owned by the Brekkes, which is surrounded by this development property, and come up with options as to what he can do with his land; and looIc at all open space acquisition areas rl within :Fluff proposal. (referred to four areas all associated with creek corridor as indicated on open space key map, and which were recommended to be purchased) IIe suggested that this was the time to change their recommendation if they so desired. ! Anderson spoke to his conversati.ona A different times with two _of the Council members and to their request for recommendations from P & R Com. on such things as a "slope ordinance" to protect our slopes, "flood plain ordinance", and ways of protecting land in the present stage and so prices of that land will not be escalated. He felt there were ways of doing this. I Kruell questioned the estimated purchase cost on the Brekke property. Jessen responded that there is substantial improvement on the land, and. -that the Council asked specifically for this land to be part of this plan, not as part of the park plan, but so it is compatible with the Hustad Plan and park plan which surround it. Kingrey, referring to re-directing and restraining land values, questioned doing this by purchasing rights from land owners. Anderson responded that under a"slope ordinance", it could be considered unbuildable and the owner could. deed it over to the City and take a tax right-off, and said this has been done in some communities. There was discussion about this method, and Jessen referred to some � of the history on this procedure and the problems run into i•rhich City Attorney Perbix had alluded to in a recent conversation. x Ka_uell su t;eutec. that we request that the assessor prepare a list of the land that lie has valued, in order tc know what land has very little value etc. . Ile aslced whether this was the type of item that the Council would feel a joint meeting Would be appropriate. I:rucll aoknd whether Brauer was the consu_l•L•ant for Hustad and questioned I3rauer.'s support of •L•he changes in the plan. f , 7 Minutes - Parks, Recreation Page rive and Natural Resources Commission approved May 16, 1977 t- E Cf IR Jessen responded that Brauer has nothing to do with -the plan except that he has reviewed it at our request as to its consistency with the Purgatory Creek Study and that he feels it does not accomplish the original recommendation, but with the exception of a couple very minor modifications it is entirely consistent with -the recommendations of the Study. r`t ; Anderson asked Jessen what his feeling was on the direction the Commission should take. Jessen answered that it is his opinion that a "flood pla.in"or"slope ordinance" will not work because -the "flood plain ordinance" is too loose and speaks to all sorts of uses, such as parking lots, and is inconsistent with recreation or public interest in the land other than storm water. Ile felt that you would only accomplish "back yards" through a "slope ordinance". He added that for recreational uses, a fee title or Fuse" _easement is necessary. Kruell questioned the benefit the developer receives from the "cash park fee" y process such as increased density. Jessen responded that the, intent of the "cash . : narI� fee ordinance" has nothing to do with density trade-off.Jessen said that in order for E developer to beableto accomplish giving land, he has to boost up density so he can make a profit or break even. Kruelll felt that through this process, the developer could upgrade his land and the City makes this possible. Jessen referred to Forest Hills area, and commented that they benefit more than any of the rest of us because of proximity and that the people who benefit more are paying for the acquisition. Discussion took place as to whether the Commission should request a joint meeting with the Council. Kingrey questioned the idea at this time until we had the answers to the questions brought up this evening. Jessen suggested discussion between Anderson and himself take place on the points raised, and he would also come up with some legal opinions from the City Attorney. 2. I4RPA mec•L•i.ng Report - Kruell Kruell and Retterath .reported on plocedings of the meeting, which consisted mainly of lectures on recreational issues. B. Reports of Staff , 2. Analysis of Large Scale PUD Park Contributions Jessen spoke to his report dated April 29. He said that the contribution to public parks by the Preserve has decreased considerably through the Pillsbury proposal. Ile spoke to the bluff Proposal cash parI: fee, and asked whether the large scale PUD .should be paying this fee. Referring to the Homeowner Association facilities and to their value to the area, he felt that "full-credit" should not be given because of the exclusivity of the use. Kin„ oy .felt that we should take a clear look at the large PUDs, and .stated that he was looking forward to seeing recommendation on this. r Minutes - Parks, Recreation Page Six and Natural Resources Commission approved May 16, 1977 Kruell asked whether the Ordinance provided for increasing the fees. Jessen responded that the Ordinance did not speak to increasing fees, but the recommen- dation from this Commission was yearly evaluation on the adjusting of fees. Jessen said he would come .up with a specific recommendation. 3. Metro Airport Commission Wolf Property - Tabled . VI. OLD BUSINESS F, A. Tennis Courts - Kingrey f Kingrey questioned the use of the courts for kids tennis lessons on Saturdays at 9:30 A.M. , which was usually the only time adults could play. Jessen responded that he would look into the issue and bring it back. B. Watering of gees - Kingrey r` C Kingrey, referring to ne*ly planted trees around the tennis courts, ex- "1 pressed' the opinion that we should not plant these trees and then not crater them. Jessen explained that these were left over trees used to re-place trees cut down by citizens, and that they were left from Sat. ' night to Monday morning and planted. He added that there are orders to water them, and he feels that most of them will survive. r• t� C. Maintenance of fields for .youth baseball - Kingrey Kingrey spoke to the possibility of regular maintenance inspection for the fields, commenting on the situation at Forest Hills,where there is a broken base and a large hole in the outfield, which he felt could be i dangerous. Jessen responded that the City is taking steps to change the present procedure. VII. NIJ BUSINESS 4; A. [dater hydrant - Kingrey { Kingrey commented on an unmarked, privately owned truck taking water ' :from the hydrant and asked whether the hydrant was metered. Jessen explained that in order for anyone to take water from the hydrant, they need a permit, and added that the City does occasionally sell water. s B. Consideration of boat launching fees at Lakes Riley and Bryant - Jessen ` x• Jessen spoke to requests for season tickets for boat launching from residents, since it becomes very expensive with the present method, and asked for concensus of the Commission on the issue. Various -points were brought up including: past terms with residents from Dutches Resort; Sunday restrictions at Bryant Lake, but none at Riley Lake; cutting down of charge for residents, with the question of non-resident use. Minutes - Parks, Recreation Page Seven and Natural Resources Commission approved May 16, 1977 MOTION: Carens moved that the Staff present at a future meeting a, recommendation on this question. Retterath seconded, Motion carried unanimously. C. Preserve - Kruel7. ICruell requested an update of the Preserve concept so we know where we are now in comparison to what we are getting. Jessen responded that the "Cash Park Fee" report was done before the Pillsbury proposal. Anderson asked how much land we are actually losing. Jessen said the Black- lock line was not absolute. Anderson commented that the conservation area was not to be used, and we should express disapproval with putting in picnic tables, lighting and etc.. Anderson called for a five minute recess. Meeting resumed at 9:20 PM. Jessen introduced Mr. Lance Woodruff, a student from St. Cloud State, who addressed the Commission on the upcoming "Everything Goes" competition and the need for participants. V.I3.3. Metro Airport Commission Wolf Property - was to be considered at this time, but was tabled. VIII. ADJOUIURENT MOTION: Carens moved, seconded by Retterath, to adjourn at 9:30 PM. Respectfully submitted, Donna Stanley Recording Secretary 1,