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Parks and Recreation - 04/19/1976 I 1976 APRIL 5 ., 19 MINUTES CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE a AG ENDA. EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Monday, April 5 , 1976 7:30 PM, CITY HALL O COMMISSION MEMBERS: Marvin Erickson, Tim Pierce, Richard Anderson Paul Choiniere , Steve Fifield, William Garens, Francis Helmer, Jerry Kingrey, Geneva Middleton, Brian Mikke lson, Mary Upton COMMISSION STAFF: Marty lessen, Director of Community Services Approx. Time to Begin Item f 7:30 I. ROLL CALL II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA III. MINUTES OF MARCH 1 1976 MEETING- G IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. _Letter from A. Holmes Empson, President EPAA Cconcerning Youth Baseball/Softball Program V. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS it A. Reports of Commissioners 1 . Councilman Pierce 2. School Board Director Middleton 3 . 4 . B. Reports of Staff 7:45 1. Summer Recreation Activities i a. Playgrounds b. Skill Development F c. Beaches & Concessions 11 8:00 2. 1976 Skating Rink Report a. Maior Rinks b. Mini -Rinks Parks, Recreation & Natural -2- Mon. , April 5 , 1976 Resources Commission �~ 8:15 3. 1976 Tree Disease Program 8:30 4. Eden Prairie Tennis Association 8:45 S. Anderson Lakes Park Master Plan a 9:00 6. Report on Survey at Eden Prairie In Action 9:15 7. Development Proposals a. Prairie East VI. OLD BUSINESS 9:30 A. 1976 Commission Goals t 9:45 B. Purctatory Creek Open Space Corridor Study--- Comments and Concerns Raised at the Public Hearing VII. NEW BUSINESS `i A. B. 10:00 VIII. ADJOURNMENT 7 ,,hpproved MI14UTES PARKS, RE=ATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES CO1VISSION MONDAY, APRIL 5, 1976 7:30 PM, CITY HALL 1,W-1BLRS PRESENT: Chairman Marvin Erickson, Tim Pierce Richard Anderson, Paul Choiniere, Geneva Middleton. William Garens, and Brian 1.1ilckelson I.M-,MERS ABSENT: Mary Upton, Francis Helmer, Jerry Kingrey, and Steve Fifiel.d STAFF PRESENT: Marty Jessen, Director of Coirmunity Services Sandy ,forts, Recreation Supervisor OTHERS PRESENT: Tom Bartel, E. P. Coirmunity News, Duncan Laidlaw, E.P. Tennis Association and Mr. & Mrs. Bill Bonner, hustad Corp, 'Pine meeting; was called to order at 7:40 P11. II. APPROVAL OF AGETDA / Addition of:VII. A. Receipt of Rules end ReF.-alations _for Shoreline i•tanaaenent l_ ` III. M EJUTrS OF It-U-11011 1, 1976 1iFETI1IG Anderson moved to accept Minutes of March 1, 1976, as published. Pierce seconded, the notion carried, with Choiniere abstaining because of absence. Chairman Exickson postponed consideration of item N.A. until later in the meeting. =? V. RECO1,2,2'!1IDATI01•I3 101D REPORTS A. Reports of Corniissioners 1. Councilmen Pierco Pierce reported that thci Council had discussed the recreational prol;remm and it was decided to request the Corrnissionas reconnnendaiti.on on the phases of the program. He added that the Council had approved the rocorrarendation rerrardi.ng; the funding; for Schaithorgor property .and Grill property, with referral of Plitcholl Island back to the Conw&r;:,ion for further study. Herce spoke to the progress of the bihcwny/hir:e-,rary trrail on Co. Rd. l,.. J•ossen added that the preferred route had been stalced out and 'thoy will be t•rith the land-- ovrnors to de•tcrraino whether there is any need fnr crmn:le. 2. School. 13n.i)`duli rcctor 11:U16.1 oton 1.13.ddlo;:on informed tho Ooa* rinaion that they nave rnot with Ehlers and Ars:_ic,ciates a.ud c15.;;cussed f ianci.a:l condition of Edon Prairie as far so the bond innuo is couce.-ned. Minutes - Parks, Recreation and Page Two Natural Resources Com. Unapproved April 5, 1976 .jh She added that they have asked that Ehlers meet with the PR & NR. Commission before they do anything more, and that there are a lot of things to consider be- fore the bond issue will be out. Jessen added that Bob Ehlers is doing work for the Council, and that he will try to schedule him for the meeting of April 19. He would answer questions on the bonding capability of the City and our current financial position. B. 'Reports of Staff 1. Summer Recreation Activities a. Playgrounds Jessen reported that some of the items have been restructured because of financial consideration, and renuested that Werts, Program Supervisor, highlight the activities. Werts spoke to the Playground Program, which she said was divided into two sections, Tiny Tots and Summer Fun, and for which five sites have been designated this year. These are: Prairie View, Forest Hills, Methodist Church (fornerly at Central Middle School), Preserve, and Edenvale (Briarhill). She added that trips will be set up for all children whether they are participating or not in the summer recreation program. Werts said that fees were reduced, rather than eliminated, as �? talked about last ,year, which makes it more of a committment. She continued -that the second mobile playground was under construction, and that this was the most successful program last year. Jessen highlighted the budget recommendation for this year. which was $11,300. (approved by Council) Worts responded to questions about the effect of the school program on the proposed Playground Program. She said that our numbers did balance out the year before, and that we lost in the elementary and gained in the pre-school. Some possibilities for programs for the older children were discussed, such as the teen work program. Jessen said this would be discussed at a future meeting. b. Skill development Werts reported that these are essentially programs that have been offered in the past, such as the swimming sessions. The season runs from mid-June to mid-August. Jes,on added that they are self-sustaining, activities, with leadership and costs paid for by those who participate in the program, except for the Coi=unity Dand. r% r ; Page Three Minutes - Parks, Rec. and i,r April 5, 1976 Natural Resources Commissionr•,•' pproved l b. Skill Development (co nt'd.) Werts responded to questions on whether outside persons are allowed in the CommunitY Band. She said that this would be acceptable, although they have not solicited any outside persons in the past. Mi.kkelson left at 8:15 PM. e Reaches 8, Concessions , Werts spoke to the Memo of April 2 outlining the recommendations. Choiniere expressed his approval with the new policy of no charge at Round Lake, and felt that the no charge policy for nor-residents would be made up in good public relations. I at same people came all nthe time because it eliminated opeople e�rhoh e could f afford the higher fee. Anderson was concerned that with the new proposed policy we are giving the residents of the lake special privileges because they live on the lake, and he felt strongly that it should be in the form of an Ordinance. Jessen responded that they will be meeting with the residents to die- cuss it and he felt that most of the people would be amiable to this type of program. He added that the method of regulation they recorimended, Activity Day Designation, he felt would stand the test of qualifying as a public access. Anderson requested that the City open Bryant Lake for public use at this time and questioned the reason for not opening until Memorial Day. Jossen responded that the City is not opposed to opening the park now, n; of the area and supervisory problems. but it is a question of polici Pierce suggested contacting the Public Safeety Department on whether they are equipped to handle any potential Tom Bvrtel, E. P. Community News, inquired as to what was done by the City in -the s=ner when it is open. Jossen answered that it is staffed and supervised. Anderson felt that by keeping it closed you are depriving the people of recreation and did not feel this was a good enough reason. He added fish and that the that lie can go anytahere but in his own community to parka are open. Jossen said that if it is open, we have some obligation to the people 7 to provide some Security. Minutes - Parks, Rec. Page Four ' and Natural Resources Com. L.Approved April 5, 1976 e. Beaches & Concessions (cont2d) MOTION: Choiniere moved to recommend to the Council that they consider the opening of Bryant Lake Park at this time, with Jessen contacting Officer Hacking regarding public safety problems. Middleton seconded, motion carried with Pierce abstaining. MOTION: Choiniere moved to accept recommendations of Memo dated April 2, 1976, regarding Summer playgroi:nds, Skill development, and Beach & concessions, as amended, including attached schedule. Anderson seconded, motion carried unanimously. There was general concern for beach procedures and discussion of ways of improvement. Choiniere commented that with the"no fee" policy, there will be more people at the beach and there will be a greater need for more control. ' Worts responded affirmative to Anderson's question on whether megaphones would be purchased for this year. 2. 76 Slcatinrr. Rini: Report a. MR or Rinks b. 1•Tini-Rinks Anderson asked for Jessents evaluation. Jessen responded that he felt that each rink should be considered individually, and that the commit- ment made in the neighborhood determines entirely the rate of use. He added that some of the rinks were well used and warranted the cost of maintenance of these rinks. Choiniere commented that it takes time to work into this, and when the kids come in and take over, it is well.worth the cost. Anderson felt that two years was a long enough time to prove themselves. MOTION: Choiniere moved to receive and file the Staff 'Report of April 2, 1976 on Major & Mini Slating rinks, and come back to us in two months. Middleton seconded, motion carried unanimously. Chairman Erickson moved on to Item 1+ to prevent unnecessary waiting for tennis representative. l,. Men Prnirie Tennis Associntion Jessen spoke to former presentation by tennis group and touched on major points. Ile spolco specifically to major point concerning the giving of lessons, and said the City should continue to maintain control over instruc- tional proT�rans and use of tennis courts so that all lessons where aninstrue- tor is paid are conducted through the City and all tournaments.and special ' ti r. is �o Minutes - Parks., Rec. and April. 5, 1976 `s Natural Resources approved Page hive =: r 4. Eden Prairie Tennis Association (cont,d) events are conducted through the City so that the Club will be pro- tected under the City's general liability program. Garens arrived at 9:00 P14. Choiniere was concerned with organizations taking over the prime time and courts will be restricted to the public. Werts commented that the City now uses 13-15 hours a week, spread over the entire week. Jessen added that the Racqueteers have asked for 4,5 hours, and did not feel this would significantly cut down on available prime time. Duncan Laidlaw, representative for Racqueteers, said they are encouraging people not to play singles during prime time because it ties up time. He added that he felt you will. have a larger amount of people using the courts for drills, etc.. Choiniere requested a monitoring; system for prime time to eliminate getting overloaded with a few groups playing during; prime time. l_ Jessen agreed to report ba9k on the schedule of times showing blocks for various purposes. Garens suggested approaching the Preserve for use of their courts. t► MOTION: Choiniere moved to accept the Memo of April 2p 1976 as presented to us this evening, covering; all of the points. Garens seconded, motion carried unanimously. IV. PLTTTIONIS_,, HEQUUESTS & RLCO1�2S?IDATIOII2 A. Letter from A..�Iol Mos Etnnsons President EPAA concor.nin�r Xouth Hnnebal.lTSoftball I•ror,ram Jessen spoke to the .letter received from A. Holmes E,rnpson, and said that, historically, they have run their progrrwns after 6:OO,idonday through Thursday, and they are requesting that the PR & NR Commission and Council consider tak- ing; over the "T" ball prorrzuu so it can be conducted during the day. Iie complimented the 172AA volunteer program and felt it was one of the best. Jossen felt they were goilig, to have a real problem because of anticipated growth in the girls softball. program. Extending; the week to include the week-end was discussed., and Erickson comment- ed that this has not been done because of people going away for tho wee]c-ends. a ]IO`iTIOIdt Choiniore moved to receive and file letter from A. Holmes Empson., Prosident of BPAA, stnting the concern over the availability of baseball fields for ri.z:ls and boys of the conununity. Garens seconded, motion carried unani-- mouhly. Jenson said he would continue to communicate. Minutes - Parks, Rec. and Page Six Natural Resources ?approved April 5, 19'76 V. RLCOra4ENDATT0P4S AND REPORTS (cont'd) 3. 1926 Tree Disease-Prof!-ram Choiniere inquired where the money received from the State subsidy program goes. Jessen answered that it goes to the landowner and that in order to receive a subsidy from the State, we have to be involved in the removal of the diseased trees. Middleton commented that she had received a call from a Council person who said that the original recommendation was not to go into hiring E a part--time forester but was to be done by Explorer Scout group, Ecology clubs, etc. under supervision of a person from the University of Minnesota. She asked whether the University would act as a cons- sultant to assist in the training? Jessen responded the the "Un will assist any members of volunteer groups, but that we cannot find anyone on a volunteer basis, that is j a certified tree inspector and who has taken the Course given by the f State Department of Agriculture. Pierce questioned whether people who own a great many acres of trees j could have a collection point and burn them. Jessen responded that in the discussion with the Public Safety Department, since Eden Prairie has not permitted burning, the amount of fires have decreased from 60 to 9 (which cost the City 0250�per call). Garens suggested de-barking the trees, therefore making them,disease free, and inciting a specific organization with manpower to come in and remove the trees and sell for firewood. Choiniere suggested changing the title from Forester to Certified Inspector, with a possibility of more than one. Jessen said this person would train the Explorer Scouts and work with them to survey the entire community and identify the diseased trees and get them all out. He added that the trees in this .area are dying at 2% a year, and that this tree disease program is mandated by State Law. 140TION: Choiniere moved to entertain the motion for a part-time Certified inspector and other persons interested in this program. Middleton seconded, motion carried unanimously. 7. Dove]onnent Prono nnls a. Pr:�iri.e L,Het Jessen spoke to the development proposal and said it had been Minutes — Parks, Rec. and Page Seven Natural Resources approved April 5, 1976 a. Prairie East (cont'd) submitted by Hustad Corporation previously, and the new proposal would eliminate the Homeowner Association and we are requesting a couple of requirements on park fee and trail along one road. Bill Bonner, Hustad Corp., spoke to the proposal, which he said had been approved two years ago as single family, town houses and multiple. He added that economics and the market place have caused them to shift to single family homes, two subdivisions. Jessen commented that the trail is moved along the main roadway and would ultimately connect with institutional center and school site and 0300 per lot for the park fee-to be.paid at-the timd building , permit' q issupd, to be used to acquire neighborhood play area. Garens was concerned about having some idea of site td' be acquired so we have the money available for a park. Choiniere asked whether there was enough park fee coming from the sixty lots for a park. Jessen answered negative, but said it was a starting process. Bonner expressed his approval of the "park feel' approach for developers. Homeowner Associations were discussed, with Bonner stating that they have proven to be a problem for various reasons. MTT.ON: Choiniere moved to recommend to the Council the Prairie East proposal, including the "park feel' requirement and trailway on Co. Rd. 18, along Linden Hill Drive, to come to the end of the devel— ophent and eventually to continue to the institutional center and school site. Anderson seconded, motion carried with Pierce abstaining. 5. Anderson Lakes Park l6ister P1 nn Jessen spoke to the Memo of April 2, 1976, stating that they will not dis— pease LAkON funds until the matter is settled. MOTION: Anderson moved to recoiinend to the Council to enter into joint t, agreement between amity of Bloomington, City of E.P., and Hennepin County Park Reserve District for the adoption of a Joint Master Plan for the Hyland Lake, Bush Lake, and Anderson Lakes Corridor Park Complex, since it is absolutely essential in order to receive funding. Choiniere seconded, motion carried unanimously, 6. Report on Snrvov nt mien Prnirio in Action 140TIOII: Choiniere roved to receive and file summarios of surveys tabulation taken at L.P. In Action. Anderson seconded, motion carried unanimously. 1W Minutes _ Parks, Rec. and Page Eight Natural Resources ;��approved April 5, 1976 r. Jossen added,as a point of information,that members of the Council have asked that the Commission come up with a statement as to where they are at in the develop- ment of the bond issue. VI. OID BUSIDTr.SS A. 1976 Commission Goals MOTION: Choiniere moved to defer 1976 Comm-,mission Goals to the next meeting. Anderson seconded, motion carried unanimously. B. Puri7Rtory Creek Open Space Corridor Study---- Comments rind Concerns liaised at -the 1-ablic llearipZ e Jessen spoke to the continuation of the Public Hearing to the 13th of April, and suggested that related Memo is proposing procedure for this Hearing. Anderson commented that he represented the PR & NR Com. at this meeting;, and that we are on record as unanimously endorsing this Study. Iie felt that people who were in favor of the Creek being preserved should be present also, for the sake of presenting the other side. Middleton asked whether the Study was a guide line, and if it is, she felt the people did not understand this. She added that she had sat in on one of the original meetings on trails and proposed uses, and felt there were a lot of questions about that. Jessen referred to P. 58 of the Study, which listed kinds of uses appropriate in certain sections of the Creek, but it does not say that this will be done, and it leaves open the options for certain segments. Choinicre felt the problem was that it was a bad report, and he felt that because certain uses are designated one way, that is the way it will be and people g;ot all "hung" up on that. Anderson felt we have to provide a vehicle to preserve this area. Je;9sen commented that this Study is not that vehicle, but it is a beginning. Choiniere suggested going back to fundamentals, because too much emotion is involved and people have lost their feeling for the facts. Pierce added hiw cot=ent;3 that the bim-est "undertow" was the pro- tection of privacy, which is very dear to people. Anderson suggested that we have approached this in the wrgng way, it should have been "should we preserve the Creek?" � � Minutes - Parks, Rec. Page Nine and Natural Resources ?.approved April 5, 1976 ?r 7 \ B. Purgatory Creek.....Pnblie Hearing (cont'd) Anderson added that the Creek belongs to �;he people, even if it goes right through landowners property, and we have. to contend with that. Garens said that 95% of the community is in favor of preserving the Creek unless it is their property. Choiniere commented that when you live a. short distance from the Creek, it is- a .problem to have a strip•of youic land out of use. Anderson commented that the trail was there when they bought the house. Garens callod for representation on the 13th and support of the Council. No Action Required. VII. NWW BUSINESS A. Receipt of Rules & Rerrulations for Shoreline Management Jessen C spoke briefly to the report and commentod that this was certain- ly going; to make an impact on development proposals within Eden Prairie. He said these are State requirements-we must comply. Choiniere asked whether the Creek would be involved. Jessen answered affirmative. MOTION: Choiniere moved to forward to the Council that we are in re- ceipt of the rules and regulations which mandates that the City of E.P. adopt shoreline nanag;ement, aamong; other things, and should be an early priority. Anderson seconded, motion carried unanimously. Piorce requosted, as a point of clarification, that the intent of the motion be to refer to City Attorney Perbis for credibility. t ' VIII. ADJGUR-n M,,'P:T Pierco moved to adjourn at 11:00 PM. Choiniere seconded, motion carried unanimously. Submitted by., Donna Stanley Hecordinn Secretary AG ENDA. EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS_RECREATION AND 1JATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Monday, April 19, 1976 7:30 PM, CITY HALL COMMISSION MEMBERS: Marvin Erickson, Tim Pierce, Richard Anderson, Paul Choiniere , Steve Fifield, 'William Garens, Francis Helmer, Jerry Kingrey, Geneva Middleton, Brian Mikkelson, Mary Upton COMMISSION STAFF: Marty Jessen, Director of Community Services Approx. Time to Begin Item 7:3 0 1. ROLL CALL 11. APPROVAL OF AGENDA. III. MINUTES OF APRIL 5 , 1976 MEETING !V. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. Arbor Day-Arbor Month-Green Survival B. V. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS A. Reports of Commissioners 1. Councilman Pierce 2. School Board Director Middleton 3. 7:45 B. Reports of Staff 1. Teen Programs 2. Allocation of Tennis Court Time 8:00 3. Development Proposals ( a. Preserve Area H b. Gelco r c. Edengate Parks, Recreation & Natural -2- Monday, April 19/76 Resources Commission VI. OLD BUSINESS 8:30 A. Capital Improvement Program-Status Report to Council 8:45 B. Discussion of Priority at Mitchell Lake Park 9:00 C. Report on Council Action on Purgatory Creek I Open Space Corridor 9:10 I?. 1976 Summer Recreation Program 9.30 E. Commission Goals VII. NEW BUSINESS 9: 0 4 A. Operations at Lake Riley 9:50 B. Cedar Hills Golf & Ski C. Q 10:00 VIII. ADJOURNMENT ,approved Cv PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION YDNDAY, APRIL 19, 1976'' 7:30 PM, CITY HALL Mf'?`1BERS PRZ;SENTs Vice-Chairman WIlliam Garene, Steve Fifield, Tim Pierce, Richard Anderson, Mary Upton, Geneva Middleton, Jerry Kingrey, Paul Choiniere, and Francis Helmer 104DERS ABSENT: Chairman Marvin Erickson and Brian Mikkelson STAFF PRESENT: Marty Jessen, Director of Community Services Sandy Werts, Recreation Supervisor OTHERS PRESENT: Mayor Wolfgang; Penzel, Don Hess-Preserve, Jerry Pautz-Paden Prairie Townhouse Co., Jeff Pederson-E.P. Community News, Bob Hallet, Principle-Forest Hills Elementary The meeting was called to order at 7:30 P14 by Vice-Chairman Garens. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA. C Mayor Penz©1 was present to give Commission members an opportunity to question him or offer comments on various issues. Addition of VI. F. Community Gardens - Choiniere VII. C. questions directed to Marty Jessen - Anderson Kingrey moved to approve Agenda as revised. Middleton seconded, motion carried. III. MINUTES OF APRIL 5. 1976 MEETING Page 6, Para. .4, last line, Add "per call° after w25O. " 7, " 3, line 3, Add "to be paid at the time building permit is issued"after "park fee". Anderson moved to Approve I-finutes of April 5, 1976 as amended. Choiniere seconded, motion carried, with Kingrey, Upton, Fifield, and Helmer abstaining because of absence. Acting Chairman Garens turned over the floor to Mayor Penzel and asked that questions be directed to him. Anderson asked whether we are that desperately in need to have industry in tho'Condon Haegele Smetana' Lake- area- that-we-have to take whatever we can get. He added that the two Ccrimissions have spoken out very clearly against the plan of auto parking lots in this area and that we have tried to preserve , it. Minutes - Parks. Roe. and Page Two Natural Resources Commission `approved April 19, 1976 Mayor Penzel responded that, first of all, he was speaking for himself and not for any of the Council members. He continued that he personally did not see any benefit for industrial development to the City today "per se.", although there were tax revenues. Ile added that the ar_irtunents have been made that any kind of use on that strip of land would demand extreme chanes. and that parking lots for office buildings would not be less than for auto dealerships. He commented on concerns that the Council sent to the Coumissions and developers after the first reading, and added that Brauer did not clear up certain points to his satisfaction. Middleton pointed out that when Brauer developed the Guide Plan, he spoke against strip zoning the land, and now he is recommending it. Penzel commented that several views were expressed in the Guide Plan, and there are a new set of facts at the present time: A. There is a contradiction and B. Purgatory Creek is the resource now that should be preserved-you cannot pre- serve every creel: etc. . He added that you cannot represent the City and the private developer without exposing; yourself to the question of bias, but Brauer did not feel there was any danger of conflict. Anderson spoke to the auesti.o.n of whether planned parking auto lots are in the best interest of the l:eople of this conununit.V and pointed out that Penzel had voted in favor of the proposal. i Penzel responded with the question of whether a parking lot around an auto dealer- ship isi:iore or less as objectionable as around an office building-the impact is the salve. Garens disagreed-he felt that banners and searchlights were objectionable. hiddleton referred to the well planned Gelco parking lot, and the desirability of keeping the rolling features of the site. Penzel commented that the natural vegetation does not exist here, such as exists by Gel.co. He added that these arguments were made and do carry a certain amount of weight. Anderson questioned Penzel on the amount of control the City can have over these points. T'enzel responded that specific requests can be made in agreements with developers now, but none afterwards. !Anderson asked what the City's financial picture is at this time. Penzel answered that they had asked John Frane. City Finance Director, earlier this year what the commercial-industrial segmentdues for the City. Ile continued that the City can tax on a per capita basis, but is bound by the 6.6;� maximum increase permitted by State Jaw. Anderson concluded that nor-acceptance of the proposal would not increase his taxes substantially, therefore, he felt that the City did not have to settle for anything. he Commission. Garons tha►iked Mayor Penzel for responding; to questions from t Z Minutes - Parks, Rec. and Page Three Natural Resources Commission •Lapproved . April 19, 1976 V. RECOP•'It•TMATIONS AND REPORTS B. Reports of Staff 3. Development Proposals a. Preserve Area H Don Hess, The Preserve, spoke to 'the site of /+4-l.5 acres, located west of Highway 169 and southwest of where Schooner Boulevard is now, which consists of two parts-high and dry site of 15.5 acres and flood plain area of 28.5 areas. Fie continued that the zoning request is for the high and dry acreage as it exists, which they would like to put together for sales, and the flood plain area where they hnve no firm committment to anything at the present time. He explained his position that you do something in a flood plain, but you do it very well, and that not all flood plains have to be useless to a community. Garens questioned the level to which they were planning to raise the 5.7 acres. Hess responded that it would be 4 feet maximum fill, going back to nothing. Garens commented that the existing flood ordinance plan is 8?1;.0, while they aro planning for 8300, and added that Nature seems to determine flood plain accurately, men only estimate. Hess answered the the Watershed District has studied this point, and he feels they have more power to control it than the City. Jessen explained that the State Legislature has mandated all municipalities to develop a flood plain ordinance, and according to Eden Prairie's there is to be no fill in the flood plain unless some legitimate public benefit is shown. Hess offered some alternatives,. such- as a plan for private flood plain uses as presented on sheet no. 7 of Development Plan. I-ie felt this element has been ignored. Pierce was concerned that if the 5.7 acres were filled, someone 1411. assume you can build on it, and suggested that it be an out- lot. I-less commented that they had considered selling it to the City. Jessen asked the Commission to consider these questions% Should we allow the fill in the flood plain? Should the Purgatory Creek Study and MCA plan be considered? The relation to the Major Center, with the problem being too much developable land-we make 7-1- more acres available to develop. Minutes - Parks, Rec. and Page Four Natural Resources Commission iapproved April 19, 1976 a. Preserve Area H (Cont'd) Hess commented that he felt the flood plain could be stored elsewhere, and that these alternatives have not been Looked into. lie added that the Ring Route is in jeopardy if this is not done. Upton stated her opinion that a policy has been made and that we should stick to it, and added that everyone will want to come in and fill parts of the flood plain. Hess said he agreed that you should make it difficult for developers to fill, but not impossible. Jessen commented that he would put together a detailed Staff report for the next meeting, with specific Watershed District requirements for filling and not filling flood plains. Ile spoke to two valid points made by Hess: 1. Ring Route location, and the fact that we may have to fill in flood plain -to take advantage of it. 2. The business of too much land for development. Anderson questioned how legal and binding our Flood Plain Ordinance was. It was his opinion that the Watershed District could do anything developers requested, as long as it did not create a flooding problem, and the rest of it was up to the City. MOTION: Anderson moved to table the Preserve Area H proposal until Staff report is prepared. Helmer seconded, motion carried unanimously. C- b. Gelco Tabled until future meeting. c. EdenF!ate Jerry Pautz, L.P. Townhouse Co., spoke to his proposal, which he said was consistent with earlier 1971 PUD that had received concept approval from the City Council. Iie consented on the pending lawsuit, and said it should be ready to be heard in court between two to three weeks. Ile continued that their proposal for park dedication was essentially unchanged, and that they are ready to deed to the City for park purposes 76 acres.in fee ownership. lie said this equals about 40N of their total land value or 2/3 of land area that they own. lie continued that they are also offering g acres to be used as a public park etc., which equals another 13% of their, total site, bringing total acreage offered to 84 acres or 3/4 of their land area, and 50% of their land value. Middleton and Fifield loft at 9:00 PM. Upton inquired whether these were rental units and how many children were anticipated. Pautz responded that the units tirould be all rental or all for sale, depending on the financing available and what there seems to be a market for, and anticipate 1.1 children per unit. C r Minutes - Parks, Rec. and �t Page Five Natural Resources Com. .�4pproved April 19, 1976 c. Edentate (Cont'd) Kingrey inquired what the advantages to the landowner and to the City in this proposal in comparison to proposal submitted over a year ago. Pautz answered that the inclusion of townhouses, which have less intensive use and are comyntable to single family homes. He handed out statistic comparison sheet concerning; previous site plan to present plan. Helmer asked what percentage of the land being set aside for perk pur- poses is usable for recreational uses. Pautz responded that land on the west, approximately 4. acres, is all on high ground, and the 4 acres in the east is scenic and wooded and is not all flood plain. He added that a golf course was proposed in the past. Pautz explained, in response to a question by Pierce, that the present ti plan is in closer conformance to the 1971 plan, and that one of the major reasons for denial of last year's proposal was non-conformance to the 1971 plan. He added that neighboring residents prefer all townhouses and fewer units and that they are opposed to both plans, but that good COLimunication has been established and we have received cooperation from them. Kingrey asked Pautz to comment on the swimming; pool being the only recrea- tional facility. Pautz responded that they have plans for two to three tot lots, but have not located them on the site plan, and would like to put 3.n two tennis courts. He added that he felt the tot lots, with play- ground equipment, the tennis courts, and swimming; pool would service the area for recreation purposes. Anderson was concerned whether Jessen had had enough time to review the proposal very thoroughly. Jessen responded that it is just being intro- duced to the Commissions and needs further study. MOTION: Anderson moved to send I;dengate Development Proposal to Staff for their recommendations and bring; back to us. Kingrey seconded, motion carried unanimously. Jessen commented that proponents and citizens would be notified when it will be on the Cor nission Agenda. A recess was called by Garens at 9:35 PM. Garens called the meeting back to order at 9:45 Pm. VI. OLD BUSINES^a A. Capital, Improvement Prorrrnn-Stntus Report to Council Tabled until future meeting;. H. Discus^ion of Priority at Mitchell Lake Pnrk Tabled until future meeting. Minutes - Parks, .Rec and Pag e 6 Natural Resources Commission ,XE.approved April 19, 1976 D. 1976 Summer Recreation Program Jessen commented on approval of summer program by the Council, with the exception of Summer Fun Playground Program and the early opening of Bryant Lake Park. He said the Council was asking how the Summer Fun and the Summer Adventure Program run by the schools fit together, and not how they conflict. Pierce was concerned about whether we were duplicating programs and explained that this was one of the Council's concerns. Worts spoke to Staff memo of April 16, briefly explaining the Summer Adventure Program as she understood it. She described the program as consisting of two parts, enrichment and developmental, with an enrollment of 450 students last year and anticipated participation this ,year of over 600 students. She added that the program is almost entirely reimbursed by the State Department of Education, and the transportation was provided and paid for by the State. Another point she added was that they have many resource people to draw from. Upton asked for a breakdown of the age group that participated in the City pro- gram. Worts responded that about 60 children participated in the Summer Pun, and about 90 in the Tiny Tot program. Upton suggested offering the programs just for the pre-schoolers and the Playground on Wheals. Werts said the Playground on 1flheels would not be going ( to the neighborhood playgrounds, and there would not be time to cover all areas. Jessen commented that last year the budget was predicated on ravenues. We had to generate ;IP1200 in revenue. He felt the most significant change would be in reduction of the fee. He continued that the drop in participation started when the fees went up, and when the ,Summer Adventure Program was offered, it was competitive. He said they have worked out the schedules and that they do not conflict, and he felt the number of users of the play- ground program will not be reduced at all. Kingrey was concerned about competition between the programs, and asked whether this was a problem. Bob Hallett, Principle of Forest Hills Blom., felt there was no problem the way it is presently planned, and suggested transportation might be worked out with the City. Jessen added that the programs do not compete for the same time, but for the interest. He continued, in response to Kingrey's concern about competition, that the Summer Adventure is structured, compared to the sponteneity of the playground program, which depends on who shows up on a given day. Hallett added that they did not feel that competition, but felt the two programs tended to compliment each other. Choiniere felt the competition was for the parent, rather, than the child, and considered it important to state specifically what it is we are offering. ( MOTION: Choiniere moved that the City continuo the Summer Recreation Program, (. specifically the playground program as previously outlined, and that the pro- gram be coordinated in every way poosible with the Summer School Program put on by the Schools, that is, for examples joint use of busing and joint use of facilitios, (if that exists) otc. It is noted that there is no overla of ee- reation programing philosophy. King7rey seconded, motion carried unan�mousfly. Minutes,-Parks, Rec. and Page Seven Natural Resources Commission " tapproved April 19, 1976 1 V. B. Reports of Staff 1. Teen Programs - Summer Teen Woxk_&_ogrgm Worts explained that this is the third year this program was being offered to students frors ages 13 to 15, and this type of program helps them gain job experience. She added that they have worked as playground aides, swimming aides, in general park maintenance, stable, and beach, and put in about 15 to 18 hours minimum a week,for 8 wks., with a free recreational activity a week. She said they are planning on appointing another leader. ' The consideration of 16 yr. olds to work in the program was dis- cussed. Werts explained that the State minimum wage laws require that we pay ;$1.62 to 16 yr. olds and over. Jessen added that we do receive a recreation exemption, therefore, we have to pay only ;$1.62, rather than full minimum wage. 140TIONt Iielmer moved that we accept -the Surmner Teen Work Program as presented to us tonight, noting that 16 yr. olds and over are not considered because of the minimum wage _law. Upton seconded, motion carried unanimously. ( Senior Tenn Aetivitios - Tabled. 2. Allocation of Tennis Oour�t Time. Jessen spoke briefly to report of weekly use of tennis courts broken dorm by hour for April and May. No action required. VT. OTD BUSIPIESS (CONTID rinam PG. 6) C. Report on Council Action on Purgatory Creek Open Spac© Corridor Jessen spoke to Resolution No. 1125, approved by the Council. Choiniere was opposed to points no. 2 through 8, because he felt that by ful.lfilling these points we are moving to implement the Study, which he feels is contrary to the basis on which -the Commission recommended it. Pierce pointed out that people are concerned that if the Council accepts the Study as it is, it becomes Law. Anderson commented that the reason we have a Study is to preserve the Creek, and to set•prioVities to determine 'which patt'a'axe wbrthwhileland which parts are not. Jessen said he would come back with nirther information from the Staff. E. Commis_ion _Goals Tabled until future meeting. ti Minutes - Parks, Rec. and Page Eight Natural Resources Commission )''japproved April 19, 1976 F. Community Gardens Choiniere Choiniere questioned the-reason for two calls being involved in this area. Jessen responded that they were necessary in order to insure compliance with the regulations. He added that we have had a tremendous response to the gardens. VII. 10.1 BUSINESS A. Operations at Lake Riley Jessen spoke to the need for management and operational policy for Dutch's Property at Lake Riley, after closing; on purchase agreement and option agreement prior to July 1, 1976 deadline. He suggested a lease-back arrangement, and asked for other suggestions. Upton left at 10:45 PM. B. Ceder Hills Gold & Ski Table for future meeting. C. Q22estions for Marty Jessen Anderson said the Mpls. Park program is open and we are going to lose two whole months of use of Bryant La1.3 Park. He suggested blocking; off a section of the park. Jessen responded that he had tallied to Hacking, who is convinced that it will not be long .before someone would get into the other part and would be all over. He said Hacking felt very strongly that the logistics of patroling the area would not work out. MOTION: Anderson moved that we open Bryant Lake Park on a restric- tive basis during daylight hours and evaluate the results. Choiniere seconded the motion, and it carried with a vote of /,,!_J, with King;rey casting the dissenting vote and Pierce abstaining. King;rey questioned Jessen on restrictions on morrain near St. John's Wood development. Jessen said he would check into it. VIII. ADJOURPdI•TNT Anderson moved to adjourn at 11:00 P14. Kingrey seconded, motion carried. Submitted by, Donna Stanley, r Recording Secretary