Parks and Recreation - 10/20/1975 Luz RlOvl.
1975
i
OCTOBER 6 , 20 �
MINUTES
CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE
AGENDA
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
Monday, October 6, 1975 7:30 PM, CITY HALL
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Marvin Erickson, Wolfgang Penzel, Francis Helmer,
Richard Anderson, William Garens, Dorothy Bennett,
Paul Choiniere, Mary Upton, Jerry Kingrey,
Brian Mikkelson, Elizabeth Tracy, Steve Fifield,
Ex-Officio
COMMISSION STAFF: Marty Jessen, Director of Community Services
I. ROLL CALL
r
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
III. MINUTES OF THE SEPTEMBER 15, 1975 REGULAR MEETING
IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
( A. Request by Snowmobile Club for City participation in
`~ trails.
B. Communication from Wallv Ball concerns site designated
for Topview Mini-Park.
V. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS
A. Reports of theiCommission
1.
2.
B. Reports of Staff
1. Gravel. Operations
2. Park Dedication Requirements
3. Purgatory Creek Open Space Corridor Study,
4. 1975-76 Mini-Rink Program
r
5. Development Proposals
a. Eden Prairie Family Recreational Center
b. Mitchell Lake PUD
ti
Parks, Recreation &
Natural Resources Comm. - 2 - Mon. ,10/6/75
VI. OLD BUSINESS
A. joint Meeting - "The Bond Issue"
VII. NEW BUSINESS
VIII. ADJOURNMENT,
9
i�
V
,approved
M I N U T E S
PAMS, RE,01-tE .TIOIJ ARIA NATURAL IESOUPOES COMMISSION 1,
11011DAY, OCTOBi�R 61 1975 7:30 PI°I CITY HALL
i
GM-MISSIONT KMM-F3EIRS PRES1`1T: Chairman Marvin Erickson, Mary Upton, s
William Garens, Paul Choiniere, t
Jerry Kinarey, Richard Anderson,
Brian Mikkel.son, Francis Helmeri� and
Steve Fificld, F.;;-Offic:i.o
COMMISSION IIM11-M si1S ABSENT: Wolfgang Penrel, Dorothy Bennett, tand
Elizabeth 'Tracy
STAFF 14 IDLRS PRESENT: Marty Jessen, Director of Corununity
Services
0`PI111"S PRL;SEi1T: Lawrence Lindner, Tony Fiorentino,
Steffanie Coonley, B. P. ITews,
Ed Schuck, HaniLey Anderson, and
A]. Brekke
The mectins was called to order at 700 P71.
II, APPRO'T,'j, 01' AC�EMDA
( Agenda was approved as printed.
C III. I;INITTT,S OF iT;PTI 1'I?LR 7.5 REQ,'QT 1R 1•1;rTING
Page 2, Para. 9, Add "because of the high cost" after "building,".
Page 6, Pura. 5, Delete "nay", Add "abstain" on Penzel's vote.
it to u n, It "nay", Add "abstain" u n it
Garons niovocl to npprove minutes as corrected. Anderson -seconded, motion
carried, wlth Choiniere and IIe]aner abstaining.
IV. rL:r�fczo ?Si 171';��IP STS J1N`ll COIF it??CCA^IOITS
•A. Revue:-, hy_Saot•nrob:i l e Club to.` C;Lt:y r.irti c nata.an in trails.
Jc^nen outlined bri.efly the noi., obile Cliib's proposal for trails -to be
funded 1),�' State Dcp't. of I•Taturnl 17esources to cover 65`� of total costs
for sccurin^ cose�:ients, development, and maintenance. •Ilo added that the
in• m,rvicc labor would be provi.dcd by the Club, con,prisine, the 35;4 local share.
I.r. I --ley Ander:sori, represonting the Snowmobile Club, responded to
l'urthor quoctions from Ommli^lion members.
1TI,;;0n :i ndu xc,,d tits t,o whoro tho ncces, pn:!nt,,3 to tho trails woro to be.
i;nn:tc�;,T ,,n:n1err..d •Choy would be the air port, parking, lot, and Starring Lake.
Choi.ni.ore ashod whtit Vie rcotr.letions would be. Anderson responded they
wr;rc rootrict r.-d to trails nand riglit-of-trays.
• ianutos - Parks, Rec, and Page Two
Natural Resources Coin. iapproved October 6, 1975
i
Anderson inquired as to whether the City has an effective Ordinance regarding
'snowmobiles. Jensen answered affirmative, and he added it is enforced 'to the
extent to which it can be.
Hanley commented that before making the grant application for funding, as part of
filing, wo have to have a list of the Landowners and their permission, which they
do have a right to end at any time.
Erickson was concerned about what would happen -to funding if landowner decided to
terminate his permission or if grant was turned down. Hanley said all. of the
money is not received at once. Moncy is allocated toward E.P. trail :system and
application is mode as cost occurs. Iie add that each pereson's time and mileage
are filed, with purchased it-er:is first.
Jessen added that if funds are not approved, the City would not get involved.
Upon asked how many miler of trails are being planned. Eanl.ey responded about
10 miles. Ile added that there are some trails that have already been used that
will be a part of this system.
Erickson asked whether they would policd their own people. Iianley said to a cer-
tain extent, and suggostcd that -the 3'ublic Safety Department could solicit funds
from DNIR for patrolling tl:e trails.
rrielcson was concerned whether they expected a lot of people coding in from other
areas. Hanley nnswored that he didn't .feel it was that kind of situation, but
would be used mainly by local residents. Erickson added that if it is State funded,
we would have to allow anyone to come in.
Anderson asked for areas where permission hod not been secured from landowners.
Hanley responded the Upgrala Holding, Co, had not approved the use of their land
for the part of the trail on the m arshy side of Riverviow Rd.
I-IOT CON
Holrior moved to rocormond -to the Council to fro ahead with Snowmobile Club pro-
posal.. Upton seconded the motion.
AndpV.son asiced for point of clarification on whether it was the intent of the
n;ot:'Lon to znl:.rove -the plan without approval of 1r.:ndowners, and did not feel the
Come-.`Lssion ,should approve it until all landowners were approached. Helmer res-
ponded that ho would like to acid on to motion "pending approval of all landowners".
Garen;s and And.er;so.n were concerned with how this would affect the proposed Wildlife
Rcn-i f c, and if it would be restricted.
Garens felt that once -they s-ot off the bluff iron, it would be very ensy to go
of:C through the river bottom. Hanley said this is a concerti of those people, but
these would be si rns posted -to stay on the trails.
Cnrons ;nn:i d ho felt he woitici ';a alon- w:i.tll the proposal if the Landowners approved,
( and he would l.il.o to see necess to the I oSucr trail.
Kini;rey arrived nt £ :00 Pit.
Minutes — Parks, Roc., and Page Three
Natural. Resources Com. approved October 6, 1975
Mil Pelson inquired as to whether Gun Club area has any trouble presently with
snowmobiles. Hanley answered affirmative.
Hanley commented they are aslcinf; for trail to go : only to Co. Rd. 1 and Highway 3.69.
More was discussion rcf-nrding trails near Forest Bill Elementary. Iianley said he
felt that the marking of those trails would keep 90) of the snowmobiles off areas
that were presently used because people just didn't know where to go.
Al Brel:ke cor.-enonted that money is alrondy set aside, and feels if there is no
notion this year, there Tray be no money next year.
RE-STATED MOTION
Iielmcr moved to recojiunend -to the Council to go ahead t•rlth Snowmobile Club pro—
posal, perxli.nr; approval of landowners concerned. Upton seconded, motion carried
un11113nously.
Garens asked for a point of clarification on whether we would back them as far as
trail Vies with pormissi.on of landowners. Helmer responded that this is the inten—
tion in the motion.
B. Coy nunicntion f:ron ?Jnl1y 11,0.1 concer.ni.nC7 site d.esir*nated for "'onview l-:ini—Park
Jessen pointed out location of lots on reap. lie said LIr. Ball has now advised
( us lie has an interested Marty. Jessen said it is not possible for uq to finance
-this at this time, and su<<f;ested inviting landowners to a public hearing.
Ilinflrcy asked trho•thcr these were .lots -that would be good for this purpose. Jessen
anst•yorcd affirmative, but they are low lots and will require some grading and fill.
Choiniere asked how many acres are involved and are they buildable. Jessen answered
about 21 to 3 acres, and they will, require fill..
Garens felt it was •too' r.uch money for land and inquired as to whether there was any
other availabJ e land,Located more centrally, that could be used to serve all three
nc:if;liborhoods, ra'tlrer than ;just Topview. he suggested using the area that didn't
have the- sciyor and water ansessllents.
Jo.:sen responded that he didn't feel there eras any other land in that area that
would be, c;:pensive, because the cost of the land is predicated on the building
of other houses, and thin is a very buildable area. lie added that the area Garens
was reforring to did have sci•rer and eater, but not trunk line.
1•:r. Id Schuch, one of the rosident s of. the Topvicw area, said these tire the last
loth, there fire no othor s 'to work tyith. lie added that it is one of the oldest
developricnts in 14P., rand that lie has :Lived there for £i years. Ile was in agree—
ment frith the Topvicw re.,,i.dcnts coming to a public hearing to tall: over the vaiious
problems.
Ancjcroson nr,hcd whether Bala, could sol:.l the lots noir if he wished. Jes,:�en answered
affir,nntivc, and that he has no cor,unittwent except that he was to inform the City
t•rlicn he did hnvc inter c.,:Aod parties.
Minutes - Parks, Roe., and Page Pour
Natural Resources Com. ,,approved October 6, 1975
MOT1011
Anderson moved to go whith recorunerdation of Staff, and set Nov. 3
mooting as public hearing; for Topvieu Acres homeowners, to discuss
potcsntials, problems, casts, etc. associated with this issue. Kingrey
soconded, the motion carried, with Choiniere abstaining.
Choiniere asked how long land will be open. Jossen said at this point
he has indicated he has Nome interest flxror..essed in the land. Jossen
said he would notify Ilal.l of the action taken tonight and felt he may
hold off until Nov. 3 meeting.
VI. OID ) UMTESS
A. Joint iioeti.nr, - "The Bond Isrnue"
Jossen said -the three key issues are: I-That is"magic" dollar amount;
for what kind of facilities; and in what part of the community. lie
felt an important item in the results to ba considered was the sound
defeat of. the referendum in -the southeastern section of T .P., and this
he felt could have come about because it offered nothing to this area.
Jcssen suggested sondinn out questionnaire to groupo such as the Chamber
of Co^.merce, to get a positive, definite statement as to i-rhat -they do sup-
port in the way of development of community park and recreation facilities,
and to use the questionnaire for "random sampling" to try to measure
interest of individual citizens.
`- Erickson was concerned about gettin,; citizens involved enough to wort:
for something rather than it looking Like we are "handing" them a package.
IIe felt it was very important to get the people to give us a "bond issue".
Anderson commented that we have to know what the Council will support and
work frori there.
Choiniere e; I-)ressed his opinion that people had dust given up and were
feel up with parks and trails etc. .
Cnrens felt t.,*e had to scale dorm the dollar amount, and stick to Question one,
that the Conunission had researched and worked so hard on.
Ki.n;;roy was of the opin-.Ion we should sit down with Mayor and work out the
arean he had trouble with, then_�iave our_ joint-neeting_.with the Council.
Cnrons, called attention -to motion passed in minutes of Aug. 1.8, 1975,
wlwre Corrma.;;;!:i.on had approved support of a revised proposnl. of Question
No. 1:, after reviow.
Thera was, dir;c isnion on neighborhood fncil.itios study, and Erickson rind
iln•ton felt th:i.r; was a good, -thing berauso people turned out for it, and
Choy felt it could ntrind on its own merits.
l
Andcrnon co;::.,ncntcd that •the tiewspnpex"s hnd come out in support of
Quostion one of tho bond issue.
IK::I0N (Soo Page Pour (a))
Minutes - Parks, Rec. and Page Four (a)
Natural Resources Com. Approved October 6, 1975
c ,
MOTION
Garens moved to have Jessen approach Council on the feasibility of a joint meet-
ing at the next P, R & NR meeting, to review the possibility of a bond issue, con-
sisting of Question One of the defeated referendum (bikeways/hikeways, park acquisi-
tion, and neighborhood facilities). Helmer seconded, the motion was defeated with
a vote of 2-5, with one abstention. Garens - yay Erickson - nay Anderson -abstain
Mikkelson-yay Kingrey - nay
Upton - nay
Choiniere - nay
Helmer - nay
Kingrey felt something more definite was needed to bring to the Council.
1
c.
. idinutes a�.?e
Parks, Rec., and tl O p ctiobrier v
9, 1975
Natural Resources Com, approved
l;.ing.rcy moved to select a date to meet with the Mayor in order to dis-
cuss. any problem areas regarding Question onc, prior to nex-L• Council
meeting. The motion died for lack of a second.
There was discussion concerninn the meeting to take place with Council
or Mayor only.
Jcl3sen suggested the meeting take place before Council meeting next
Tiuosday, Oct. 14, 1L
,
Kin grey moved that t-ilo Mayor be contacted and invited to a special or
regular Commission raneting, at his convenience, to discuss placing
Question One, or a rovision thereof, on a roforendum at the earliest
possible dale. Upton seconded, and the motion carried, with Choinicre
casting the dissenting vote. 1
Upton r.eportod she is having; a hard time attending the meetings for the
Coimnunity Growth Council, because of the inconvenient time of day they
are held. (4.:00 to 6:00 P14) She requested being; replaced.
1•lOT7OId
Upton noved that we contact Elizaboth Tracy, youth member, to see if tithe
Is still interested in serving on the Commission, and if' not, request the
Eayor to appoint 2;Mlcone in her place. Anderson seconded, the notion
carried unnnixiously.
V. R1 001-12IIDATIOI.S 01) M� PORTS
A. R2,pL)rts Of 1;},e COToais^:Lon
Prone.
B. ]?epo.rts of Staff.
1. Gravel. On.-:?rnt:].one
Jerson referred back to Staff.' report of August 15, 1975. Ile said the
City ha;, riot insistcd on grave?_ inspect Ions, and the requirements of
tho Orc31.11ance have not I:ioen strorl;ly enforced. IIe added that our fees
are -encrally very low on the five pits that have presently applied
for pert i.ts. Ile continued that the basic enactment of further, control
is thn•t prior to issunnco of any (;ravel licenser, for 1976, the City
:should roauire that each of the provisions of Ordinance No. 1/.2 be
sa•t.i:;.i'icd; that a I.nlicy be adapted whereby the pits are inspected on
an evoi,y ;3:LX :;lUllth basis; that tl:-.e restoration bond requirement of the
ord:1.11nnco be .111p .irci r:ore rifp(lly; that the permit fees be increased
to .03,E to .05r ror cubic ytird removed; and -that'inspection and restora-
tion of inactive pits be uncic:r.••t;Alcen. Fie said -the Council is awaiting
a F',It, Fc 11113 reconmicndat ion on this problem.
f Fificici :�•sl:ed arl,n t aome of flies I:,asic requirements of thn Ordinance are
for ro:-,torinl;, such as rc-300dinr; etc.. . Jossen said there have been
no po].icic:s ��or}ccd out for this yet, c.:cont through Ordinance 1.;.2.
1-Iinutes - Parks, Rec., and Page Six
Natural Resources Com. I iapproved October 6, 1975
Garens felt •tl-ie raise in fees was justified to handle inspection and compliance.
Anderson inquired as to what other coraT,unities were assessing per cubic yard. '
Jesrcn responded that Shoreview, forest 1,ike, and Eureka Township have this
policy.
Josson said license fee per cubic yard t•rould generate more fees than are needed
for inspection, and that if pit erns started under previous Ordinance, they must
still. comply with any raise in fees.
i 1OTION
Anderson moved to accept recoiv:riendation of Staff report of August 15, 1975, with
the addition of I•Io. 5 under enactment, that being to inspect and restore inactive
pats. Ringrey seconded, the motion carried, with Choiniore casting the dissenting
vote.
Choiniore commented that he d:i.d not feel we have clone enough research on this •to
come up with a recos:rnendation at this time. IIe said we have to look at it from
the standpoint that it has to be monitored.
Mikkelson loft the meeting at 9:30 PI•I.
2. Pn.rk Dodication tecsu:i.reinent s
Jesson staked that -the most iir,portant issue was active vs. passive recreation
space. lie said -the City han been cri'tisived for too many open space areas etc.,
and this is set Li nr sotje standards for the future. Basic Coal laid out is to
provide neighborhood facilities through appl.icatiLon of "cash-in-lieul' forrnsla.
Anotl.er goal. is -to provido internal play space, and final goal is to continue to
protect natural_ resources through density credits so developer can generate profits
and ,�tjl.l provide high quality housing. lie added tiro are still looking for a reason-
able .for:,ul.a for coi::nercial and industrial areas. Jesson said the Council has
requested recor nendat:i.on from the Commission for a new policy for the City to use
to deter,niine "ca:l—in-1-i.cucc s::oney amounts. It is desirable to have policy and pro-
cedure spelled out so that the developer and City can work from -the same set of rules.
I:in troy asked lobo t was the co:npcsri son for these finires. Jessen said that most
co s:,s.�nitie;; use .flat percen•tnge of the land. This is based on systei,s classification
adopted durinrl nei ;hborhood facility study.
1!0TT01'1
Gar.cna inoved to r.eco,.u^end to the Council. to accept Staff report of August 15, 2.975.
Andormmn ;,econded, motion carr:s.ed, with Cho iniore casting dissenting vote and Upton
abstainiii(r,. Upton commented slie wonted to study it further.
Je^men ndclocl t•1lrst he 1anul.d bring bade eonmiorei.al and indnstri.al formula nftor more
research.
ry IC 01)CaI SnnC0 C,orr.idor Si,1ir!v
Joescn swid 117,it ,sork was cor:pl.eted on harcol annlysio of impacts of this study on
lands along; tl,c Crec�l�. Iie. sur;ootod schedule as outlined on Staff Report: of
Oct. 2, 11)75, with a public henrin�{ for Oct. 29.
`Lii.nutes - :Parks, Rec., and Page Seven
Natural Resources Lapproved October G, 1975
3. Pur.rrat;nry Creole OSen Snnce Corridor S•tucjSr eont'd)
l
I:OTION
Anderson moved to r'eco7mrend that the Council. set Oct. 29, 1975, as the date
for public bearings on riatter of Purgatory Creek Open Space Corridor Study.
Upton seconded, motion carried unanimously.
Iielmer. asked i-,rhethcr our study was run independent of Ilatornhed District.
Jessen responded th;it this study was done by Brauer & Assoc. for the City
and RILI.oy-Purgatory Creek [daterslhed District.
Q. I,975-76 Ilini.-Rink Pro rnm
Je5son explained th;it tl•te main ]problem with this program was i.ndifferor,ce to
maintenance. lie said. some areas would keep up the rinks religiously, some
did not. Iie felt V-:at this is the year' for oval.utitin- criteria, since we're
getting stnrted enrIy eriough to put things together so that we're ready to go
whon the skating season starts.
Upton asked about lot on County Rd. Pour that had been offered by -the
Ilagen Renity. Jessen .resronded that the Council had turned down offer
because of the delinquent taxes.
The lot offered by Rev. lteiski was questioned as to why it hadn't boon used.
Jessen said because of the use Rev. Keis',ci had wanted it for and the area
fspecified, it would have boon very difficult to maintain because of park
1, maintenanco overload, with no additional manpower antici.pa.ted in that area
for noxt year.
Upton felt that people getting the mini-rinks ;should be told that if they do
rnot tale care of the rink it would not be continued the next year.
MOTION
l.i.n;;roy moved to accept Staff recommendation on 1411ini-rink Program. Garens
seconded, motion carried unanimously.
5. Develr-)r.^.ent Yro»c`sal,
a. Eden 1_rn ri.c I�m:iil_�,r Recr.oationnI, Center
Jensen reforrcd to merlo of Sclat. 11, 1975. lie commontcd that item ,'#3 was
ai.merl nt diccuss:i.orh of a roller rink, theatre, fast food restaurant, and otc..
He naic1 me do not know wNri'L' they are going; to do and so wo should riot get
involved there.
Upton asked about trails. Jesson said trails are not included yet because
there :i.s no site plan.
Garen^ said lie label Lnl.l:cd to.]•.r. Ycterson at a neighborhood meeting and they
]have trails in ruind rind rcal.iood that the poople in -this cormimnity want there
r tra i.l.;..
Upton 1::C>vCCI 'to nccolrt Staff recorc*riondat:i.on with the addition of a No. /I.,
tlInt tr.iii.l.s be cons-truatod to •Lihe facility a., stated 'in bilow.rv/hikeway
tank fciree .roport. Carona noconclud, the motion earriod unanimously.
Page right {
w - minutes � Parks, Rec. and Page
rovod October 6, 1975 I
Natural Resources PP i
- 5. Dovel.onment Prc niosnls cont'cl) i
b. Mite',cl I Lal:o PUD
Jessen showed slides taken of site to give Commiission neribers idea
of what was boitig considered. In referring to Staff Renort of Oct. 6,
3.975, he :Mated that area designated as public part: on Penton Land Use I
Plnn 1,Lnp is inaccurate. They repronont current elevation of llitchel.l
Lnko at approximate1.Y 864' while our plan prepared by Darr Engineorinf;
sllows normal level. to be 870' and flood elevation of 8731. If outlet
from Ilitcholl I-ake is not provided, the flood elevation rises to 8'16.5' ,
diriinis ir_g "public park' land area substantially.
Jessen had to le ve meeting; at 10:20 P1.4 �
Anderson roved to table the Mitchell Lake PUD proposal for further study.
Upton seconded, motion carried unanimously.
VIII. 1LDJOLlRT_T?" I'T
Anderson moved to adjourn at 10:30 P11. Garens seconded, motion carried.
Submitted by,
Donna Stanley
Recordist; Secretary
i
C AGENDA
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
Monday, October 20, 1975 7:30 PM, CITY HALL
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Marvin Erickson, Wolfgang Penzel, Francis Helmer,
Richard Anderson, William Garens, Dorothy Bennett,
Paul Choiniere, Mary Upton, Jerry Kingrey,
Brian Mikkelson, Elizabeth Tracy, Steve Fifield,
Ex-Officio
COMMISSION STAFF: Marty Jessen, Director of Community Services
I. ROLL CALL
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
III. MINUTES OF THE OCTOBER 6 1975 REGULAR MEETING
IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS_
�`- None
V. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS
A. Report of Commissioners
1. Status of Guide Plan Update - Bill Garens=
2.
B. Reports of Staff
1 . Report on Council Action for Purgatory Creek Public
Hearing.
2. Development Proposals
a. Mitchell Lake PUD
b. Ma le Leaf Acres
c. Cairnes Tangen Land Division
Parks, Recreation &
Natural Resources Comm. - 2 - Mon. ,10/20/75
VI. OLD BUSINESS
A. Discussion of "The Bond Issue" and the need for recreational f
improvements. (Mayor Osterholt will be present at 7:30 PM 1
to discuss this item.)
VII. NEW BUSINESS
VIII. ADJOURNMENT r'
i
-.approved
M IV U T E S
PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
1,10NDAY, OCTOBEM 20, 3.975 7:30 PM CITY HALL
C0114ISSION I,MIMERS PRESENT: Chairman Marvin Erickson, Jerry Kingrey,
Wolfgang Penzel, William Garens,
Richard Anderson, Brian Mikkalson, and
Steve Fifield, Ex—Officio
COINTSSION I0II3FMS ABSENT: Francis Helmer, Dorothy Bennett,
Mary Upton, Paul Choiniere, and
Elizabeth Tracy
C011II,II9SION STAFF PrMSENT: Marty Jessen, Director of Corrununity
Services
OTHERS PMESENT: Betty Erickson, Steffanie Coonley, E.P.News,
Bob Mavis, Robert Iiruell
The meeting; was called to order at 7:40 PM. Chairman Erickson appointed Gnrens
as acting; Chairperson for the evening, as I:e was unable to stay.
VI. OLD DITSITTSS
A. Discinri3on of "The Bond I^^ue" and the_.need for recreational
irrnrover1e11t5._ (Mayor Osterholt was present at 7:30 Pld to discuss this item)
Actin[; Chairperson Garens dispensed with the Agenda Approval temporarily, and
invited i'ayor Osterholt to present his feelings on -the possibility of a reduced
Bond 1'ssue involving Referendum items of (question One.
Payer Osterholt directed the question to the Commission as to what they were
thinlc:ina of.
Garen:, responded that the neighborhood facilities, which included S locations,
acquisition of pore park land, monies for bikeway/hikeway trails, and monies "in
lieu of," Co. Rd. LF bean- developed by the County, was -what they had in mind. he
added that the Coirunission would like to get hio and. t.ho Council's opinion whether
is wan feasible to approach the voters with another bond issue.
Osterholt; suF Bested that the Council memrbero be advised what is being contemplated
on the bond issue, wiiother you intend to present it as one issue or not, and what
is tho tiiro chcdul.o.
Osterholt asked wlicther Commission inembor s had talked over why they felt the
bond lrunie failed.
Erickson ro:-,pondod that Choir feelinEn were that the Consnission became involved
:in ot:hcr xjrolTraln-, such as, the ice nrcmn rind swi.rmninFr pool issues, rathor than
st:icici.n,c; to the r,c:i:jhborhood facility :I.ssue, a•:liioh they had studied over the
yore•r..
r
Minutes - Parks, Rec., and Page 1`tro
Natural Resources Com. approved October 20, 1975
Osterholt added that if you are approaching voters with a figure from the past
referendum, he feels they will say "no", and it would be good judgement to cut
down that zunount. He continued that the real need is for recreational facili-
ties for young people in the Community. Ile added that we should look at the
possibility of "municipal liquor"and the funds from that, and also suggested
that -the funds developers have paid "in-lieu-of" 'land could be used in the
development of parks.
Garens felt they had made a mistake in going from the 1968 bond issue amount to
the amount that was defeated, because it was too big of a jump, and that it should
be trimmed to something reasonable. He felt the timing was too late for ]gall and
Spring would be 'too close to the School Bond Issue.
t +
Osterholt responded that if -the need is there and people recognize it, they will give
support, but it has to be communicated to the voters. Ile felt people would vote for
it if this were done, regardless of the school build issue.
Erickson was concerned with a good way to go to the neighborhoods.
Osterholt said homeowner's Associations should be approached and asked what their
needs are before the packnf,e is I.;ut together. He said it helps to cormnit them, and
they, in turn, feel they have a part in it. Be also felt that contacting -the
leaders in the clif'ferent ne:i.frhborhoods and having coffee parties was a good way. Ile
added, for a point of interest, that Precinct 3 was the one that defeated it, and
rn<any people had fc1t that the Preserve voters wore responsible for it, but there are
not that many families in the 'Preserve to accomplish this, and he felt this was
worth looking into.
Kingrey expressed his opinion that the Mayor's idea of going back to the grass roots
was well thought out and he agreed that it is the best .ray, but only if we have the �
time to do it. IIe said he was speaking specifically of LYAA and the Babe Ruth League,
and was concerned about telling these )ci.ds next year that they may not be able to
play. Slcaling down the price was agreeable to hire, but not to start all over again.
IIe added that the majority of the CoTuriission felt the "no" vote came because of the
other issues and feels the view is shared by many people.
Anderson commented that Tolav:i.ow Acres received notice that the owner wantu to sell
the lots that could be used for a mini-park, and if we do not hnve another bond
issue -they will lose it completely. Ile added that the Commission has scheduled a
public mceti.n;; with those people to try to wort: son!ething out. IIe said that the
need for trails is becoming rlore obvious, with more and more pedestrian traffic,
and quoted the loss of the l.•i%res of the two young; people recently.
Osterholt spoll.ed out more que;,tions-what kind of monies do you have-have you c:on-
sidcred Round bake for pore bnllfield;� etc.-what about land offered by the Methodist
and Presbyterian Churches.
Kingrey responded that the T'I'AA needs a centralized Location for the ballfields,
because it is impossible -to or-anize and operate ciTiciently with fields scattered
in different spo'
ts. lie added the convenience of the parents has to be considered,
or the hills just can't Como to play.
Minutes - Parks, Roe., and Page Three
Natural Resources Com. ".approved October 20, 1975
Mr. Robert Kruell, 6780 Tartnn Curve, expressed his opinion that it was his
understanding that Question Two was developed as a rbsult of the survey con-
ducted by -the League of Women Voters during The Eden Prairie in Action week-
end.
Garens said the results of that poll. also re-enforced the Commissions feelings
on Question One, and showed a strong interest in the swimming pool. Ile added
they were getting pressure from the hockey supporters, and that many times your
people who have a strong interest in their field are not in the majority.
Kruell asked what will people actually support and added that he felt that
Question One was a good program, and if it was derived from a wide basis it was
a good package, but promoted poorly.
Kingrey quoted figures from neighborhood facilities study.
Brickson continued that there were two sl,ecial. meetings held at the elementary
schools, in which we invited people and received information together to draw
up the package, but we missed going into the areas after the meetings .
Anderson referred the Mayor to his statement regarding municipal liquor and ea-
I
pressed his opinion that lie felt the monies should go for park and recreation
purposes. Osterholt agreed with this point.
Anderson inquired whether the Mayor felt that now would. be the time to investi-
gate this possibility. Osterholt answered affirmative, and that it would take
-time to negotiate a lease if it were to be located in the shopping curter. lie
added that he did not feel it was the best p1aco for the liquor store, but it
was better than none.
Anderson questioned Osterholt as to whether he could support (;rzestion One, with-
out the provision for a trail on Co. lid. 4. Osterholt responded that he would
want to see the proposal first, but what he has heard tonight lie thinks he can
support it. Ile added that he felt the former bond issue would have been defeated
even i-rith his support.
Garen thanked the Mayor for appearing and answering questions of the Commission.
Penzel requosted, as a follow-up, thzt Jossen report on Council action regarding
as.;igninent of priority of trail system on Co. 11d. 4.
Jensen said the City has been notified by the Petro Council and federal Righway
peopl.n that: they are favorable toward constructing separate t.railviny away from -the
road nloni; Co. itd. l,., with U,70,000 T•ederal fundi.nn and :"20,000 to 4;•30,000 n:et by
the Con.nunit•y. He added that the Council. has concept update on the trail., pending
Stuff report on the various trays vie coin accomplish this.
I?rIekson loft the meetinr at 8:15 M.
Anderson at,,I:cd ul:ethor this had to be done t)irow;h trio bond i.^sue. Pcrizol. answered
that we cannot do it out.�si.dc the bond iosuo, c%cept through dedication or 11money-in-
lieu of', land.
I4inutes - Parks, Rec. and Page Four
IJatural Resources, Com. approved October 20, 1975
C
There was discussion of methods for reaching neighborhoods for input on the
bond issue. It was agreed that a Commissioner should be present at as many
of the neighborhood meetings as possible to answer questions and give the
Commission's opinion.
Jessen referred to questionaire discussed at last meeting;, and felt this would
help minimize preliminary steps by approaching the civic organizations, where
a lot of contacts could be made.
i
NOTT.ON
Ki.nerey moved that the Staff prepare tentative schedule of organizations, and when
they meet, homeowner associations, neighborhood leaders, etc., so that the Commission
could consider them at t'reir next meeting, with plans to attend as many as possible.
Anderson seconded, motion carried unanimously.
Mikkelson asked whether we would attend for the purpose of asking questions .and
taking; part in their meeting. Kingrey answered affirinative and that we would try
to reach a concensus of what their needs and problems are.
II. APPROVIU, OF AG.1,I,TA
Garens asked for additions or changes in Agenda. It was agreed to acid the °liquor
storell question under VII. flWif RUSII1ES13. Anderson requested 'Lower I•finnesota
Z4ildlifel' Report be added under A. i�!1,0:1T OF C0I,R4TSST01711-1S. Jessen requested
the 1.':avle Leaf Acres be tabled because Mr. Irvine was out-of-town.
Penzel roved to approve Agenda as amended. Anderson seconded, motion carried.
3:II. IMIMITES OI'' TITr OC.TOUI';R 6, 1975 REGULAR I•1EFTII,1G
Page A., Add after last paragraph;
MOTI011
Garens moved -to have Jessen approach Council on the feasibility of a joint meet-
ing at the next P, R 8: ITR. meeting, to review the possibility of a bond issue, con-
sisi,ing; of Question One of the defeated referendum (bikeways/hikeways, park acquisi-
tion, and neidiborhood facilities) . Helmer seconded, the motion was defeated with
a vote of 2-5, with one abstention. Garens - yay Erickson - nay Anderson-abstain
Mikkelson- yay Kingrey - nay
Upton - nay
Choiniere - nay
Helmer - nay
Kin-rey felt soinething; more definite was needed to bring to the Council.
Page 4, para. S, Delete ilmake our recormiondation to°, Add "have our joint meeting
with".
Kinfrrey moved to approve Minutes of October 6, 1975 regular inreti.ng as corrected.
Tbi]ckelnon seconded, ,motion carried, with Penzol abstaining; because of absence.
wJ. t_]�`.l'TTIOTdS, RI:`�,1isS'1';3 AJID Co,.il'IMICAT ''ONS
I`ano
Minutes — Parks, Rec. and Page Five
Natural Resources Com. Approved October 20, 1975
C
V. RE001,1ENDATIONS AND REPORTS
A. Report of Commissioners
1. Status of Guide Plan Update — Bill Garens
Garens reported that two meetings were held, the first of which he was
unable to attend because he was out—of—town. Four proposals to update the
Guide Plan were presented. He continued that he attended the second meet—
ing, at which the selection was made. He said Midwest Planning was
recommended to the Staff by the joint meeting, of which the Planning Com.
was the head body.
Penzel commented that it was his understanding that the order was to be
sequential, rather than selecting one. He added that the Council, based
on the Agenda for the next meeting, will have the three top candidates
present and make their choice.
Of the three candidates, Garens and Penzel agreed that they were negative
towards Brauer & Assoc. for the reason that they were involved in the first
plan, and a fresh approach may be desirable. Both stressed that the quality
of their work was not the question.
Garens said he was opposed to one of the other candidates because they
were trying to computerize subjective information, which he didn't feel
was a good approach for Eden Prairie. He added that there was a differ—
ence in approach and prices, with no reflection on the quality of the candi—
dates, because all have done excellent jobs in other communities.
2. Lower Minnesota Valley Wildlife Refuge — Dick Anderson
Anderson reported that the meeting was held at Burnsville, with a good
turnout. Ile ,said their biggest problem lies with transportation, and they
have stated that unless the Scott County Board of Commissioners and repre-
sentatives of the City Council for the City of Shakopee are granted a right—
of—way and are allowed to build a bridge across to Co. Rd. 18, they will
not back the Wildlife Refuge.
Penzel asked whether they understood that the planned crossing does not
involve the Refuge. He added that if they address themselves to the ques—
tion of environmental impact and who is going to pay for the right—of—way,
they'll. find there are some practical aspects to be considered, such as
what would happen between the bridge and Highway 494. Anderson added that
the only thing they would be in favor of was if the highway would be built
into the Wildlife Sanctury.
Anderson continued that Bloomington is asking for active play space in
their area and he feels they have a good chance of getting it. The ques—
tion he had wnq that we have the largest amount of land and if we think
there may be some needs for active play space, we should ask for it.
hinp-rey nsl.ed whether many people were present. Anderson answered affirm—
ative, and added thn t there were a lot of Staff people from the State and
Federal Agencies, representatives from Humphrey, Mondale, and Frenzel's
office, state representatives from various areas, County Commissioners,
and many representatives from Scot County.
r
Minutes -- Parks, Rec. and Page Sig; r
Natural Resources Com. approved October 20, 1975
2. Lower 11inneso{a Vnlley '-1ildl.ife Refuge - Dick Anderson Cont'd
Kingrey was concerned that we should be going to the meetings and
make certain they Are receiving; communication from 'us.
Jessen assured the Connnissioners that this was being done, and that the
City has adopted a position and this is being cormnunicated.
Mild'alson left meeting at 9:00 Pid.
Penzel brought up the issue of snowmobiles on the river bottom. Jessen �
said the plans for the State Trail System in the bower- Minn. Valley include
snoi•rmobile trails and bridle paths.
Kruell suggested bringing this to the people and let them voice their
opinion.
Jessen sumapmrized for the ColT nission what the proposal is shaping up to be
from the tine of the August meeting. Ile said the thinking has changed
somewhat on this, and he ;asked for an opportunity to contact these people
and come up with the present status.
M0MI 211
Anderson moved to direct Josscn to bring; to the next meeting, the status
/ of the bower I'innesota Wildlife Refurre, with the idea of review and per-
haps a public neeting. Kinrrey seconded, motion carried unanimously.
13. Reror•ts of Staff
1. Renort on Counc ry_ creek Public Ileirinr..
Jessen informed tlIe Comriiosion that the Council moved to receive report
and to set ldovember 18, 1975 as the date of public hearing, as October 29
did not mesh with their tirm schedule. lie added that; it would be held at
the Voc-Tech School at 7:30 PI.1.
MOTION
Ka.ngrey moved 'to receive I-lcmo of October 17, 1975, and request the Staff
to male recorunenda•tions to be considered by the Commission at their Nova 3
meeting, for the Nov. 18, 1975 public hearing. Anderson seconded, mot:i.on
enrr.iod unanimously.
2. Det*nl onrlent 1'zo^n'!s
a. Vitch.el.l_ LnIl Fe PUD
Anderson rc:ouc;ited I4r. Putnam, City Planner, be present at this
presentat on because of tho magnitude of land involved.
I tuTl'OId
Anderson moved to table the 11itchell Lake PUD until the Nov. 3, 1975
�. incetin . 1{inFrcy seconded, motion carried unanimously.
b. I'�rm e Lcnf Acres
Jos^on requested that this presentation be tabled because of the
nbsenco of I:r. Irvino, 1•1110 was out-of-town.
Minutes — Parks, Rec. and Page Seven
Natural Resources Com. .approved October 20, 1975
3. Devolon*dent Provo'Sn1s (Cont'd)_
c. Cai.rnes Tonrxcn-Land Division
Jessen said the area contained a small, five—lot land division in the
Bryant Lalce area, and because so few Commissioners were present, he
suggested tabling the presentation.
MOTION
Penzel moved to table the Cai.rnes/Tangen Land Division presentation
•until the Ilov. 3 meeting. Kin.grey seconded. I.lotion carried unanimously.
VIl. hrif.J BUSTIdI;aS
A. 2'unicinal Linuor Store
Jessen informed Corrnission that the Staff and City Manager have been gathering
information about municipal liquor store operations. He added that some of
the problems are approaches to ways of financing, and location of such a store,
which is critical to the kind of clientele it would attract. IIe said two things
are needed: Study be completed and Cor1r.Ass:i_on input as 'to how money generated
is -to be spent.
MOTION
Anderson :roved to request that the Council direct the Staff to study feasibility of
municipal_ liquor store and rcuort back -to PR & IdR Com. or,
whether monies cnn be useu for parks and r.ecrcati.or_, as suggested in minutes
of meeting of May, 1975. Kin;:rrey seconded, notion carried unanimously.
Penzel sugE;ested the Staff prepare for the Cormrission, a brief summary of the
budget approved for 1976.
Anderson rc:ues•ted that a report on iahat is happening with Dutch Elm Disease
rind Oak ?Jilt be added to neat Agenda.
Anderson wns concerned with recent accidents involving young people, and I
suggested revi.owin; the needs of a trail systorn.
VT.11. AU70U1?02.7711T
Anderson moved to adjourn at 9:30 PI,. Ki.ngrey seconded, motion carried.
Submitted by,
Donna Stanley
Recording Secretary