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Parks and Recreation - 03/31/1975 I ,i 9 •I 1975 r 17 � 31 l�ARC�-I 3 s MINUTES CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE 7 i AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION Monday, March 3, 1975 7:30 PM,- CITY HALL COMMISSION MEMBERS: Marvin Erickson, Wolfgang Penzel, Francis Helmer, Richard Anderson, William Garens, Dorothy Bennett, Paul Choiniere, Mary Upton, Jerry Kingrey, Elizabeth Tracy, Brian Mikkelson and Steve Fifield, Ex- Officio COMMISSION STAFF: Marty Jessen, Director of Community Services Chris Enger, Landscape Architect Sandy Werts , Recreation Program Supervisor Donna Stanley, Recording Secretary j ROLL CALL I. MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 3, 1975 MEETING. I I. ORGANIZATION A. Consideration of Revised Ordinance and Bylaws (Copy of letter from Attorney attached) 1 Action 1: Motion recommending to the City Council the adoption of the Revised Ordinance; or continue or deny. Action 2: Motion directing staff to place the suggested Bylaws on the Commission agenda following Council action on the Revised Ordinance. B. Clarification of Council Liaison - Mr. Penzel Action: Motion recommending to City Council the Commission's position in regard to Council representation on the Commission. 41 Park & Recreation Agenda - 2 - March 3, 1975 III. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. Letter from Sandra Collins expressing appreciation for neighborhood "Mini-Rink" . (Copy of letter attached) Action: Motion to receive and file. B. Letter from W. R. Bonner, Hustad Development Corporation, regarding Bluffs Sector (Homeward Hills) Golf Course/Ski Hill. (Copy of letter attached) Action: Defer action until discussion of Edengate development proposal. C. Letter from John Olson, President, Hockey Association of Eden Prairie, concerning hockey boards at Blake School. (copy attached) Action IV. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS A. Indoor Facilities Report - (Attached) Action: i B.• Recreation'Program Report (Reports attached) 1. Teen Programming 2. Summer Recreation Programs 3. Summer Organized Athletics 4. 1975 Beach Operations Program 5. Community Gardens 6. 1975 "Cooler" Action: Motion approving programs outlined and directing staff to implement the programs; or continue or deny. Park & Recreation Agenda - 3 - March 3, 1975 C IV. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS (Continued) C. Eden Prairie in Action (Report attached) Action: Motion approving participation in the program to include: recreation program information booth, capital improvements information; or continue or deny. V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL REVIEW A. Red Rock Hills_!- (Revised Plat attached) Action: Motion recommending to City Council approval of Revised Plat; or continue or deny. B. Mitchell Lake Estates - (Concept Plan attached) Recreation Potential Analysis .for Mitchell Lake/Riley Lake Sector attached. Action 1: Motion recommending to Council denial of e' Mitchell Lake Estates. Action 2: Motion recommending to Council adoption of park plans for Mitchell Lake/Riley Lake Sector per the Report. C. Preserve SchoolZPark Plan - (Attached) Action: Motion approving or rejecting boundaries and concept plans for the school/park site. D. Edengate (Proposal attached) Action VI, niSCtrSSiONS A. Park Capital Improvement Program (Report attached) Action: Motion to forward information to City Council and requesting a joint meeting for the purpose of discussing the program and financing tools; or continue or deny. B. Equestrian Center Program Action: VII. ADJOURNMENT. approved { M I N U T E S E,DEN PRAIRIE PARK AND RECREATION C0I-MISSION E � r EONDAY, MARCH 3, 1975 7:30 PM CITX HALL f a COMbIISSION ME-MBERS PRESENT: Vice-Chairperson Mary Upton, Richard Anderson., E Paul Choiniore, William Garens, Jerry Kingrey, Wolfgang Penzel, Brian Mikkel.son, and S. Fifield,Ex-Officio 001-ILTSSION NE1,MERS ABSENT: Chairman Marvin Erickson, Dorothy Bennett, Francis Helmer, and Elizabeth Tracy i I STlSP 1404BI.'RS PRESENT: Marty Jessen, Director of Community Services i Sandy Warts, Recreation Program Supervisor OTHERS PRESENT: Steve Sopezak, Dick Emahiser, Mr. & Mrs. Cvetnic, Lynne Forster and Carolyn Lyngdal, League of Women Voters, John Weiss-Sun News, Gerald Stanly, Mr. & lirs. Donnld Sarles, John Olsen, Richard Strolikirch, Mr. & Mrs. Bob Scobie, Richard Sather, Elaine Sather, Mr. & Mrs. H. Striker, Michael Wright, Bob Chapman, Don Opheim, Darrell Olson, Don Marpe, Richard Karl.son, YIalter June, Sonia Anderson, Floyd Hagen, Mr. . & Mrs. Carlin, Richard Ehlen, R. Mavis, Glen Keller, Allan Lamar, Bill Deckler, Nancy Autio, John liouston, Flou>ton Eng., Gene Moore, Community News, Fran Galpir, Don Hess- Preserve Vice-Chairporson Upton called the meeting to order at 7:35 kbl. I. MINUIMS OF FEBRUARX 3. 1975 1-1LETING, Choiniore moved to postpone approval of minutes of Feb. 3 meeting until next meotint;. Anderson seconded and the motion carried unanimously. II. ORGANIZATION A. Consideration of. Revised Ordinance and Bylraws 1 Choiniore moved to postpone revision of Ordinance until we can devote a `I full. meeting to the question. Garen, seconded and the motion carried. 4j Anderson moved to waive all. items on the :agenda in favor of the presenta- tion on indoor :ice facilities by Mr. Cvetnic. hinE;ray seconded and the � motion carried. i IV. MECOT-VENIDATi.ONS AND R. Y-ORTS A. Indoor Facilities RaL)ort Mr. Cvetnic presented slides showing facts and figures regarding three typos of indoor facilities, a "bubble", pavilion. and arena. He explained that the hour: needed and the hours purchased did coincide in the past years. This year they did not, and were even taken away because of the direct needs of the community where the arenas were located. i 1 approved Minutes - Park & Rec. Page Two Commission March 3, 1975 A. Indoor Facilities Report (Cont1d) He said facilities operating only in the winter had a hard time making ends meet in summer. There.-are usually 7 or 8 indoor activities competing for facilities in the summer. Multi-facilities become a high priority item because of the needs. He expl&ined that the key point of any facility would be that it would be self-supporting. He felt that a recreational facility with ice rental would be financially feasible. The financing would be through general obligation bonds, which would cost the homeowner from yp6.00 to 015.00 per year for 20 years. Cvetnic brought up the survey results which concluded that most citizens, both hockey and non-hockey types favored a recreational facility of this type. The swimming pool question was received favorably with the stipulation by quite a few of the people that they were in favor of a ;swimming pool only if combined with a new school. Many favorable continents were recorded. Cvetnic concluded that the need is apparent, the community is interested, and there are many benefits with minimal cost to the taxpayer.' The committee which put together the report consisted of Cvetnic, members of the hockey association, high school coaches, in cooperation with J'essen. They recommended a multi-purpose recreational facility with artificial ice, general obligation bond to cover construction costs, with Oct. 1976 occupancy. They wanted a Park & Rec. Com. recommendation, City Council approval, so they could go ahead with a campairn and submit a referendum to the citizens of Eden Prairie. Cvetnic asked for questions. Kingrey asked whether artificial ice plant was ice mat. Cvetnic answered that the price quoted was for a first class ice plant. Ice mat has not been working out very well elsewhere. `,f Kingrey asked what the estimated life of the building was with normal. maintenance and was there an equipment reserve. Cvetnic said the Braomar facility had a life of 30 years and felt the proposed would be better than that. Jessen added that some ice pavilions do have a depreciation fund, but this was not figured into the cost of the proposed facility. I Kingrey questioned Cvetnic regarding Shakopeels plans. Cvetnic said they have a similiar situation and are proposing; a $750,000 bond issue for such a facility. They are concerned because of dependence on others for ice time. They ;justify their financial feasibility based on servicing Prior Lake, 14ontgomory, and New Praguo. i Upton asked x..hether this figure included flooring; .for tennLs. Cvotnic answered that there would be a concrete base floor throughout pavilion. "'Tennis mat" is put right on concrete. He did not have figures on this cost. Ponzel. inquired whether the estimated capital cost included parking facilities and accesses. Cvetnic said only building; and equipment are included. Sewer, water, land, parking facilities, etc. are not included. Anderson questioned using, general obligation bonds and wanted to know why revenue bonds wore not to be u66d. Jansen said he had researched a number of arena operating statements for last g years. Edina received authority for revenue bonds from municipal liquor store, with a low interest rate of 3%. The initial debt wus very successful, but it is no longer rl'�approved J Minutes - Park & Rec. Page Three Commission March 3, 1975 A. Indoor Facilities Report (Conttd) the case. Based on Richfield's experience and others, there is not enough money to pay bond costs. Kingrey asked what they envision in the lane of cost for conversion to tennis. Cvetnic said that was included in stated cost. Kingrey questioned whether hockey lights would be adequate for tennis. i Strohkirch, E. P. hockey and tennis coach, answered that they were definitely appropriate for tennis. Kingrey wanted to know how it was determined who would be called. Cvetnic said a team of 35 hockey-type people called about 5 other people who had children in the hockey program and they were asked to call their friends for their. reaction. He stated that 2/3 of the people surveyed were hockey-types, but the rest were not. Anderson wanted an estimate of rental hours from other communities. Cvetnic had talked to persons from Chaska, Chanhassen, and Waconia and received verbal commitments for ice rental time. Penzel asked whether figures were based on sebool system uses, and whether they had talked to the school district representatives. Cvetnic said they had talked to coaching staff but there is no i commitment from the school district. Penzel felt strongly that this was an important consideration. I Choiniere had a question regarding the number of E.P. skaters who would be skating inside and w other. the youth program would be moved inside. Cvetnic said you do not move the youth program inside. This year they are raising ;',10,000 for the youth program. Anderson asked whether anyone had seen the arena at Litchfield. One of the citizens present answered that he had and the cost was 050,000. It was attached -to the school building. � Garens broujTht up the comment made to hir. about -the proposed facility conf]ictir,rr with land acquisition. He maid Round Lake was acquired at a low price., in fact at ,,r�,000 per acre and pointed out chat it would cost � now. He felt that ].and acquisition was very important. lie added that we z need the support of many groups of people to pass the bond issue. lie !� � suggested combining their proposal with the proposed bond issue, adding $650,000 or present it separately and pass it on its own merit. Cvetnic commented that Lp650,000 represents the needs of many people in our community. If we tack it on to other issues we will gain support of these people but bring on negative .sides also. lie felt that this package could stand on Y. its own. < Garens said he felt that it had lots of merit, but needed to do more work on it. Ile added that *the Park and Rec. Commission needed more time to think it over. aapproved Minutes - Park & Rea. Page Four Commission March 3, 1975 A. Indoor facilities Report (Cont�d) Upton commented that the summer months are not a good time for something like this because so many people leave E.P. and that it should happen f during the school year. Cvetnic felt he would have lots of people helping if it could be ready for May. Mr. Donald Opheim felt that tennis alone could support a facility. He felt the hockey would carry the facility, while benefiting tennis. He felt that the first community that builds its facility would capitalize on the growth of hockey playing. Kingrey requested more details before it came up for a referendum. There should be a cooperative effort between Commission Staff and Hockey Assoc.. Jessen added that he had met with the hockey people four to five times regarding present information. In the time schedule, additional informa- tion should be gathered within the next two weeks for the Council meeting in April. It would be necessary to call in an architect and get bids from contractors. Kingrey agreed that this would be necessary for the bond issue to be successful. Cvetnic said if plan were approved by Park & Rea. Commission and Council they would get an architect etc., following the steps he had outlined. Choiniore stated his position on the concept. He commended the tremendous effort made by the audience and the excellent attendance, but said he would not be in favor of this concept. He feels that natural ice is the answer. It was suggested by one of the audience that an effort be made to collect a true population sample and address ,yourself to the question on how you convince the voter to put in $6 to ',15 per year only to be able to drive by. Cvetnic answered that it would be there. Ice time is paid for by these Isame people at other arenas, why not here. A member of the audience asked whether if any other communities build their own facilities, would it cut into our rent. Cvetnic answered that other communities are far from building their own ice facility. Yr. Floyd Ilagen asked whether there would be prime time avai.lnble for fanilies or i•.ould it all be taken up by hockey. Cvetnic said there would be prune time for the e;eneral public. P..asical.'Iy, the -surrouudint; arenas • put public skatinrr first for persons who buy season's pass. They receive up to ;V'30,000 revenue from free skating. 1:07.'TO N Kingrey made motion to approve the proposal in concept and Hockey Assoc. of Eden Prairie continue to work with our Staff to the point where our Staff is capable of offering assistance and having Hockey Assoc. hire architect or whatever else they may need if they so desire. Anderson seconded the motion.. It failed to pass, with a vote of 6-1, with Kingrey casting the only "aye" vote. ',approved 11inutes - Park & Roc. Page live Commission. March 3, 1975 A. Indoor Facilities Report (Cont'd) Penzel brought up a point of information„ Would information include additional financial cost potential, road access, and school approval. He felt that all of these needed further study. Anderson said motion for accepting concept gives us more time to study these issues. Penzel did not feel that we should accept concept and quibble about details. If the Commission found out later that they could not agree on certain details, it would be difficult to resolve when approval had already been given. Kingrey saw it differently. He felt that these people needed some encouragement that they were on the right road by approval of the concept. Penzel suggested that the fact that we are asking for more information is a positive estimation. Choiniers commented that he thought the Commission had agreed to do an in depth study in conjunction with the school district when a high school requested a hockey facility. Upton commented on this, reading from November minutes. It was only agreed that no school officials had been contacted regarding a need for hockey and other recreational facilities. MOTION Garens aaoved that this matter be brought up at March 17 meeting, with more input from the Hockey Association, allowing us more time to consider P this report in detail and answer questions we may have. Penzel seconded and the motion carried with a vote of 6-1, with Choiniere casting the �. dissentin7 vote. Point of information wa.s called for by Upton regarding whether the study would be done in connection with the hih school. Penze). felt that the financial aspect needed definition and exploration by the School Board. This should be part of their overall. planning for school facilities. With this feedback, we would be in a better position. Choiniero asked about citizens' knowledge of neighborhood facility study and asked Jensen to summarize the study for the people present. Jessen suimnarized the report by explaining hint the Park & Rec. Commission has been since last Au«unt, the need for capital park improve- � ment. Si;Tn:ifiennt amounts of time and mone;r has been inve;,•ted in socing those plan❑ t..i' 1nnc1 ;u•qui;:itlun •thruugh. Since list i:a;r, nl:::ost all. of a those p:i<tns will he completed. Neighborhood facilities, such as play- gruunds, tennis courts, playt*rou.nd apparatus etc., are being considered, along with tho continuation of park acquisition needs. The Coi ission has dlscussod a system of trails so that those people who live in residential pockets i•rill have access to all the facilities. The proposed bond issue for Park Capital Improvement contains a three-prong approach to park system, which includes park acquisition, neighborhood facilities, and bikeway/hikeway system. Jensen stressed that much time and effort were put into discussion of these issues in the past months. Jessen received unsolicited letters from citizens who read in the paper what was going; on at the meeting tonight, and handed out copies of these Letters. I %'Aapproved Minutes - Park & Rec. Page Six Commission March 3, 1975 II. ORGANIZATION A. Consideration of Revised Ordinance and Bylaws See page 1. B. Clarification of Council Liaison - Mr. Penzel Penzel brought issue back to agenda at his request. He •infoimed the Commission that the Council is considering its continuing participation on advisory boards to the City. lie said there is the potential that a Council member can unduly influence the decisions of the Commission. Council member is j here in a supporting role and for giving information. It is not intended to establish a direction for the Commission by making leading statements. He felt that he had tried not to let this happen. Garens commented that he realizes that attending Commission meet- ings takes a lot of time, but feels that the Council member has a "feel" of what the Council can do and will do and is bonvinced the guidance is valuable. }le was for continuing the liaison. I j Garens added that Penzel and others have never tried to direct us. The Council member carries back not only the motion or recommendation, but also the "feeling" that the Commission has, and can better aug- ment our recommendation. It is a two way street, he added. Upton agreed with Garons and felt the Commission members were strong enough not to be influenced. Choiniere said that personalities aside, with proper communication between Commission and Council, there is no need for a Council member. i l'OT:CCN 1 renc moved to recona^end to the Council that we continue Park & Rec. Connmi>c,i.on raprecerjta•tic)n by a council member. Anderson seconded and i the t:ot,i.on c;; trice? ti,it,h ,i of.i--]-, Nri.th Cho re or:i' :i.nr the r:otion hecrluse: lie f ult it, sl-joul.cl have been done with f al C0I1111l:iSSi011 attendance. � Vikkelson abstained. Anderson commented that it has been valuable for himself to got the feeling of the Council and some of the misunderstandings have been cleared up because of this. He feels it is important to have that kind of person who moves between the two bodies. Jossen called for a Point of Order as to how long the Bylaws would be postponed. Pcnzel felt it might he beneficial to have a joint meeting for this item or more. 'Phis might be an ideal time to combine joint Z meeting regarding referendum, he added. d J r +',approved Minutes - Park & Rec. Page Seven Commission March 3, 1975 B. Clarification of Council Liaison - Mr. Penzel (Cont'd) Choiniere suggested establishing priorities such as: Ordinance, preliminary neighborhood study, joint discussion with Council re- garding what we have accomplished so far, and finalizing of neighbor hood facilities. MOTION Garens moved that we have a special meeting on March 31 with the agenda being; the Bylaws and Neighborhood Facilities referendum. Upton seconded the motion and it carried unanimously. Upton called for a Point of Information on whether Mikkelson had a vote. Jessen said he did. III. P17?YTIONS, REQU1!STS AND C01.401TICATIONS A. Letter frgm Sandra Collins expressing appreciation for neighborhood 1 ini-rink. Upton made the motion to receive and file the letter from Sandra Collins. Kingrey seconded and the motion carried unanimously. C B. Letter. front_,% R, Bonner. lhistnd Develo ment Corp., rer,,ardina F.tl.uf'i' 8c:cto.r(Ilome,�ard 11i11s C�7.f Coarse S1ci hill. Jessen asked whether it was the feelinry, of the Conunission to consider Bonner's Bluff West and Edengate together. The members agreed. 11e suggrested deferring discussion until Edengate's presentation. No Action Required. C. Ietter from John Olson. President, 11ockey Association of Eden Prairie, concerninrr hockey boards nt Blake School. Garens moved that we recoy,mend to the Council that assistance in the way of trucks be given to bring boards to Edon Prairie and place in appropriate site. Kingrey seconded the motion and it carried unanimously. IV. RECOI•',IXLJIDATI0113 A1ill REPORTS 0RTS A. Indoor F_,cia:itics Report See Page �1. — B. Recrention Prorrrnm Report 1. Teen Pror_ramminr. gram goals set forth by the program Werts presented the teen pro budget of the Department of Community Services for 1975. This included a -program offered two times a month, with two types of ( activities, the drop-in and on-site. It would start this Spring and be continued into Summer with g special activities. A Summer teen work program for youths 13 to 15 years will be offered again. A junior softball league is planned for young people from ages 13 through 19 years. There is a limited budget on this and volunteers are needed. 'iapproved Minutes - Park & Rea. Page Eight Commission March 3, 1975 B. Recreation Program Report 1.. Teen Programming (ContId) Jessen explained that he had sent the junior softball league plan to Dale Lommen to be discussed and didn't feel that it conflicted with other programs. Kingrey said this w;,.s to be discussed on the 18th at the EPAA meeting. Garens asked about location of the teen programs. Jessen answered that they would be held at the Middle School and High School. The teen center was hard to supervise. Werts felt that adults and teens should meet and give us their input before any teen program will be successful. YOTION Garons moved to accept recommendations of the Staff on the teen program. Anderson seconded and the motion carried unanimously. 2. Sumner Recreation Pro_arams Choiniere questioned iderts as to what consitutes an "Arts and Crafts" specialist. Werts answered it would be a specialist in one field who is talented in this area. She added that a suggestion was made to hire six different specialist.,A in different areas for one. week, and they were considering that idea. Werts said 1-Sr. Hallett, Forest Hills Principal, approached her saying there may be summer school this ,year and she felt this may have an effect on the summer recreation programs. Choiniere asked about the suggested bus transportation for the Briarhill children. Jensen explained that most of these are one parent families, with about 50�6 on welfare, that cannot provide transportation. he said he will check into Welfare. Department regnrdin *, this. Penzel added that the human Services staff i.s also i.nva-stifratilIF this question. IIb,TION Choiniere moved to accept reconmendati.ons on Summer Recreation programs. Kingrey seconded the motion and it carried unanimously. 3- Summer Organized Athletics Worts informed the Commission that new eligibility rules are being recommonded by the Staff to exclude teams that do not consist ex- clusively of people who live or work in Eden Prairie. Many problems occurred the last few years because of persons outside of our community breaking the rules. —approved Minutes - Park & Rec. Page Nine Commission March 3, 1975 l B. Recreation Program Retort: 3. Summer Orrnnized Athletics (Cont'd) Increasing team entry fees was discussed. Many fees are paid. for by a sponsoring company and most Commission members felt the increase would discourage sponsorship. Jessen said there had been an increase just last year. alerts commented that we were high in relation to most other cities. Choiniere asked about the budget in relation to these other cities. He felt that by subsidizing in this area, we are depriving other areas. Penzel inquired whether our maintenance costs have increased. Jessen said they had. Penzel commented that there is a basis for increasing fees because our costs have increased just as everything else has. 140TION Choiniere made the motion to increase entry fee from $120 to U35. Penzel seconded. The motion was defeated by a vote of 5-2, with Penzel and Cholniere casting the opposing votes. Choiniere asked if there were many new eligible companies for sponsor- ing teams. Jessen answered there were several. CAnderson did not want to price this out of the market and wants to see young people take part in softball etc. without it putting; the "crunch" on their budget. He added that jobs are hard to find for college and high school kids and they would find it hard to pay the increased fees. Werts commented that the basketball fees had Crone up and as a result, there ware only four teams signed up originally, but more sponsors were finally found through the efforts of Kingrey. Werts brought up the question of Wednesday night activities. MOTION Garen-- moved that the Staff wnlve Wednesday night restriction for the ;;ilrn.ner program. 14otinn rcconr]ed by Anderson, and was carried with Choiniere nb;taininC, otl the haf-O:s that this had been ctt].ed of a prcavioti r'u'!'Iuid I Garens moved to approve the Staff report as presented.Anderson seconded and the motion carried unanimously. 4. 1975 Beach Operations Prof-ram Upton asked why the Aun. 17 closing date. Jessen answered it was because of budget and the deterioration of water quality. There is also a drastic drop in attendance. Garens asked whether the fence that had been installed at Round Lake helped keep out the kids that hadn't paid. Jensen answered that it had helped. Uifforent methods of ideiiti.Cying persons who had paid were discussed. r iIA "tapproved tdinutes — Park & Roc. Page Ten Commission March 3, 1975 B. Recreation Program Report s 4. Beach Operations Program (,Cont'd) Choiniere brought up the disparity between the fees charged at Round Lake and Bryant Lake. Jessen said this was open to recommenda— tion for revision by the Commission members. Anderson felt that we should drop swimming fees or start charging for skating or hockey and wondered-;.why we, distinguish between them. j Choiniere suggested that all Eden Prairie residents be allowed to swim free, parking at Bryant Lake would be $4.00, with non—residents paying 50 cents per day not to exceed $2.00 per car. Jessen said we cannot distinguish between the beach goers and those going only for a picnic. One of the reasons for the present fee is that it involves those using the beach only, while the persons who go only for a picnic still have to pay. NOTION Gai-ens made the motion to table this issue until the next meeting, due to the late hour. Anderson seconded and the motion carried unanimously. MOTION Choiniere moved to .ask Staff to develop philosophical questions re— garding fees for Bryant Lake and Round ?sake. Anderson seconded and the motion carried unanimously. 5. Community Gardens Postponed. 6. 197 "Cooler" Postponed. C. ,-Ien Prrii r•i.e in Action Anderson moved to reco=end that the Staff prepare for the Eden Prairie in Action �jcckend, 1,1,v pi•ocecdln�' i:ith thc: recoi.rtandations of the staff report of February 23. Kin„rey seconded the motion and it carried unanimously. approved Minutes - Park & Roc. Page Twelve Commission March 3, 1975 V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL RE=W (CONVD) B. Mitchell, Lake Estates. Postponed. C. Presgr11re School Park Plan Mr. Hess of the Preserve, presented the plan for a school/park on 22 acres to be located in the neighborhood center. He felt they would have to resolve the area on the north in order to continue present plan. They had worked with the Staff as to configurations of site. It had been agreed that 1]+ acres for neighborhood park and 8 acres for the school was adequate. Ile continued that Staff input had been received on various points. He stated that what they really want is enough neighborhood facilities that would pro- vide a neighborhood park for our people. They also want a school w for an educational focal point. Hess felt that they had met City's suggestions and several changes were made to arrive at the 22 acre site. Be asked for questions. Upton said they would not like to take any action at the present time, since they had lost their quorum. D. Edeng� e i Postponed. VI. nISOUSSIOlis A. Pnrlc C3nitz1 Imyrovc�,nent Pr.or*rnm Lynn Forstor and Oarolyn Lingdahl of the League of Women Voters, were given a copy of Discussions of Park Capital Programs memo dated March 3, to be used at an upcoming League meeting. This was in response i to the no-Vion passed at January 20, 1975 Commmission meeting,, which requested the Staff to provide information to the League. B. Yk1u.-st,rian. Cantor Pro«ram F.in;,rey moved to adjourn at 12:30 AM. Anderson secondod and the motion carried. i MJ:ds l R ,approved Page Eleven f° March 32 1975 Minutes - Park & Rec. i Commission V. DEVELOP1dENT PROPOSAL REVIEW A. Red Rock Hills - Revised Plat blr. Houston of Houston Engineering, presented the revised .plat for Eli Red Rock Hills, which had been approved by the Planning Commission. The Council had suggested that Houston work with the Staff on a The Commission discussed all aspects mini-park in middle of area. of the question of a mini-park. Houston informed the Commission that a Homeowner's Association is a problem from the developer's f standpoint, because of the hassle with F1•IA regarding maintenance etc.. The responsibilities become too great if not enough homes are sold. Choinlere moved that we have reviewed Red Rock mini-park as suggested in the Latest preliminary plat and we find it unsuitable for the following reasons: 1. Proximity to other park areas that are close enough for walking. 2. Inadequate depth of lots surrounding parkareas. 3. Inaccessibility to the mini-park. /+. Lack of buffer area. 5. Mini-park would be so small-, it would invite vandalism. G. Size of lots-there is no need for tot lot. 7. Homeowner Association is not desirable in this situation because it is not equitable. Motion was seconded by Ki.ngrey, and the motion carried unanimously- Motion called for a point of clarification on whether the prior position was still favorable. Kingroy moved to approve plat dated Feb. 5, 1975, with the following revisions: 1. Deletion denoted as mini-park. 2. Deletion of four park access routes. 3. 1-codification of major park point. 4.. Inclusion of North-South Choinicro aeoundud thy: not loll alld t,i,C Sao tioti carried unan:i,::oualy. I �r MEMORANDUM TO: Park and Recreation Commission 'A --tt-- FROM: Marty lessen, Director of Community Services /'l•J- SUBJECT: Meetings DATE: February 21, 1975 } w RE_MIN_D_ER_: Tour of Rock Isle Ranch, 9:00 AM, Saturday, February 22, 1975. Will return to City Hall for a short discussion of program potential. The next regularly scheduled Park and Recreation Commission meeting will be held March 3, 1975,,_17.3.0 PM','1at the City Hall. ,i ( AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PARK & RECREATION COMMISSION r Monday, March 17, 1975 7:30 PM, CITY HALL COMMISSION MEMBERS: Marvin Erickson, Wolfgang Penzel, Francis Helmer, Richard Anderson, William Garens, Dorothy Bennett, Paul Choiniere, Mary Upton, Jerry Kingrey, Elizabeth Tracy, Brian Mikkelson and Steve Fifield, Ex- Officio COMMISSION STAFF: Marty Jessen, Director of Community Services Chris Enger, Landscape Architect Sandy Werts, Recreation Program Supervisor Donna Stanley, Recording Secretary ROLL CALL I. MINUTES OF MNUARY 20, 1975 PARK AND RECREATION MEETING, 1 . MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 3, 1975 PARK AND RECREATION MEETING . C MINUTES OF MARCH 3, 1975 PARK AND RECREATION MEETING. II. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL-REVIEW A. Edengate (Proposal previously distributed) (Discussion of N.W.Eden Prairie Golf Course potential and Homeward Hills Golf Course/Ski Hill) Action: B. The Preserve 1 . School/Park Plan (Previously distributed copies of the Plat) Action: Motion approving or rejecting boundaries and concept plans for the school/park site. 2 . Area i _Commercial Plan (Previously distributed brochure - Plat for Area A attached) C. Mitchell Lakes Estates (concept plan previously distributed` along with Recreation Potential Analysis for Mitchell Lake/ Riley Lake Sector) Action Motion recommending to Council denial of Mitchell Lake Estates. Park & Rec. Comm.Agenda - 2 - Mon. ,March 17, 1975 C Action Motion recommending to Council adoption 2 of park plans for Mitchell Lake/Riley Lake Sector per the Report. III. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS A. Indoor Facilities Report (additional information to be presented by John Cvetnic). Action: B. Recreation Program Report (Previously distributed) I 1. 1975 Beach Operations Report (previously distributed) 2. Community Gardens (previously distributed) 3. 1975 Cooler (previously distributed) Action: Motion approving programs outlined and directing staff to implement the programs; or continue or deny. C IV. DISCUSSIONS A. Equestrian Center Program (Preliminary Staff Report discussing potential programs attached) V. ADTOURNMENT. r' ,approved M I N U T E S EDEN PRAIRIE PARK AND RECREATION COr�1ISSION MONDAY, MARCH 17, 1975 700 PM CITY HALL COMMISSIOId MEt4BERS PRESENT: Chairman Marvin Erickson, Richard Anderson, Paul Choiniere, William Garens, Jerry Kingrey, Wolfgang Penzel, Brian Ilikkelson, and Steve Fifield, Ex—Officio CO101ISSION MIMERS ABSENT: Mary Upton, Dorothy Bennett, Francis Helmer, and Elizabeth Tracy STAFF IMM31MS PRESENT: Marty Jessen, Director of Community Services OTHERS PRESENT: Mr. & Mrs. Joe Mischel, Walter June, Loran Galpin, Developement Concepts, Inc., Mike Williamson, Mr. Anderson, Dick Emahiser, H. N. Miller, Richard L. Helur, Robert Mavis, Glenn W. Keller, Steve Peterson, Karen Fahey, Mary Brill, John Weiss, Sun Newspaper, Jeff Pederson, Community News, Steve Sopczak, John Olsen, Pros. of Hockey Assoc., Norman Miller, Mary Hayden, League of Women Voters, Mr. & Furs. John Cvetnic, Donald Opheim, Don Hess, Preserve, Gerald Pautz, Owner/Developer Edengate Townhouses, Herb Baldwin, Landscape Eng., Frank Burg, Jr., Consulting Lng. Diversified, Inc. Chairman Erickson called the meeting to order at 7:40 PM. I. PAST MINUTES Anderson moved to dispense with past minutes and move on to Item A. Garens seconded and the motion carried. II. DEVEL OPDVIT PROPOSAL REVIEW A. Edengate Mr. Herb Baldwin, Landscape Architect for Edengate Townhouses, presented the Eden-ate Townhouse plan. Total dedicated land would be approximately 80 acres. A 400 foot buffer is planned for west side of land and a proposed parkway on the east. A major node is focal point of the project's open space system and -is -the dominant land form. There is also a minor recreational node planned. They feel that tho two play areas, which would contain a swuivaing pool, tennis courts, tot play, and space for passive use, would cover the recreation demands of all ages. Kingrey inquired about the buffer zone. Baldwin answered there is a natural ground form volume separation, with tree growth, and evergreens of all sizes would be planted to complete the buffer. He added that it was more of a psychological buffer than a physical one. kapproved Minutes - Park & Rec. Page Two Commission March 17, 1975 0' A. Edenrtate (Cont Anderson asked whether the recreational facilities were basically summer facilities. Baldwin said yes, they did not intend to enclose the pool. Garens wanted to know whether there would be a homeowner association. Baldwin said yes. Garens felt there would be a problem as far as other children being able to play in that area. Baldwin didn't see it that way. He felt that if they were invited in by the children living in the development, this shouldn't cause any problem. Anderson inquired about the Purgatory Creek Study and asked whether Baldwin was familiar with it and wanted to know how this development fit into the study. Jes'sen commented that this particular plan represents the kind of thinking that Brauer & Associates reviewed as legitimate, except for the lack of adequate recreational facilities. Jessen showed slides of the area in the way that it related to neighborhood facility study and golf course study. `rho northwest portion was recommended by Brauer as open space. The two alternatives for the use of the area would be use of the golf course plan or neighborhood facility plan. One option would be the basic proposal as presented today, but this does not have enough play areas to fulfill the neighborhood facility study. The golf course would protect the section that Brauer identified. Key thinking in the golf analysis is the grading necessities. Another alternative would be a flood plain conservation area, with no need for acquisition. The golf course would not be included in this basic idea. He asked the Commission to consider whether it would be a good golf course site or should it ultimately be a neighborhood facility. He invited people to respond to these alternatives. Choiniere asked whether number of children would be restricted in renting the units. Baldwin said there are no restrictions, but no more than three children would be encouraged. The average would be one child per unit, with 220 units. About 25% would be only adults. Anderson questioned total population of all units when filled. Baldwin said about 720 population. Anderson asked whether the listed recreational facili- ties would be adequate for this many people. Baldwin answered that in this type of unit, they do not seem to want this type of amenity. It is a different market he said. Erickson asked for input from people living in that area. +1r. Robert Mavis presented the feelings of the people from that area. lie handed out information sheets listing some of their concerns. They are pursu; ),,,- these discussions with the Planning, Commission and City Council. The major concern was the encroachment on wild life habitat in the area. They felt the buffer zone was inadequate. Mavis questioned the existence of the mini-rink that they had worked so hard on if this proposal went through. Increased traffic was another concern. Mr. Joe Mischel of Tartan Curve added that the mini-rink would not be large enough for the additional children. Baldwin asked whether it could be enlarged. d tapproved Minutes - Park & Recreation Page Three Commission March 17, 1975 A. EdenfTate (Conttd) Choiniere asked whether homeowner association would be private or public. Mr. Pautz, owner/developer, answered that there will not be a homeowner assoc. but will be operated like an apartment project and managed by a corporation which manages other townhouses for them. Fifield wanted to know what kind of trail system was planned. Baldwin said three areas are in a minor system which ties two principal play areas and from that they are tied to prime amenities. There is no plan at the time for low-key trails. Erickson asked what the Planning Commission had decided. Jessen said they are waiting for discussion on the feasibility of the golf course etc.. It has never been formally adopted. It was received as a need area but that is all. Frank Burg, Consult. Engineers Diversified, Inc., addressed the Commission on the economics of building a golf course. Jessen responded by commenting that economic feasibility was part of the Brauer study. It was doubtful if a golf course would be built if the land acquisition were too high. MOTION Anderson made the motion that we hold off until the next regular meeting making recommendation on this project and that we get further recommendations from the Staff for the total use of this area, along with total land recommendation of Purgatory Creek Study, plus golf course study, and would like to have these on the agenda of the next regular meeting. Garens seconded and the motion carried. Anderson felt that the total picture had to be looked into and that he cannot make a judgement on this type of proposal without more study. Kingrey commented that he wanted to look at the site plan further and does not want to give people the impression that he could go along with the inadequate buffer zone. Baldwin said it was approved according to the original 1970 PUD plan by the Council. Jessen commented that the proposal was consistant with City plans, with the exception of the lack of recreational facilities. MOTION Kinrrev moved that the issue of the concept be referred to the Planning Commission includintr, but no-t limited -to,the inadequacy of the linear buffer zone along the West perimeter of the property and the inadequacy of the internal recreational ,facilities. Choiniere seconded and the motion carried unanimously. B. The Preserve 1. School Park Plnn idr. Don Hess, Preserve, reviewed the school/park proposal seeking approval so they could fulfill PUD committment. Penzel commented that the original plan had overlook but did not see it on this plan. Hess said this came from an Anderson Lakes Study. The land was juggled to meet their own, needs where they were having trouble. i • r _ I . pproved Minutes - Park & Recreation Page Four Commission March 17, 1975 i B. The Preserve 1. School Park Plan (Cont'd) Garens said he thought there had been a pathway down through the section. Jessen said this also had been included in the Anderson Lakes Concept Plan. j Jessen felt the buffer area was a problem. Hess said it was more difficult for people who are buying homes to relate to a park rather than a commercial area. Penzel- inquired whether they had brought this to the school district. i Hess answered yes and that he has time frame on this school and when , it is needed. I Jessen felt that it would provide adequate neighborhood facilities, but he asked the Commission to consider how good they will be. Fie said the question is where that North boundary line should go, and whether is it adequate for that section. He added that they didn't say it won't work -but is there a better way. I MOTION Choiniere moved to accept plat shown with the addition of fencing to be provided by the Preserve, along with a workable berm, next to the homes in the two areas discussed to protect future buyers. Kingrey seconded and-the motion carried with a vote of 4 2, with Anderson (` 1 and Garens casting the dissenting votes. Anderson asked whether it would be workable. Jessen said the berm would work, but did not feel a chain link fence was very desirable. Choiniere sees it as a compromising situation and people should know it is there. 2. Area-Commercial Plan Mr. Loren Galpin, of Developement Concepts, Inc., presented the Preserve Commercial Center, Area A for NE section plan, for the purpose of discussing park and open space with the intention that on the 25th they will continue hearing before the City Council. He said of the 268 acres nj of MCA area,•-46 •acres are in scenic easements. They have met with Watershed District, Planning Commission, and Council. Basic criterea was Anderson Lakes Wild Life habitat. People intrusion is not allowed in this area. Choiniere asked what provisions were being made for run off on the parkins; areas. Galpin said they had met with Watershed District people and Barr Engineering on this and will take their recommendations on this. Kingrey asked how much land was dedicated. Galpin said that .50% was to remain as -open space,' in-'order to obtain the development'concept as proposed. V l: d 'F,'%approved Minutes - Park & Rec. Page Five Commission March 17, 1975 B. The Preserve 2. Area-Commercial. Plan (Coht I d) Galpin presented the idea of a high quality .Supper Club, with a distinctive view of a natural wild life habitat to be located in the small 1.5 acre area on the northwest corner of the land. He added that the Preserve does not intend to encroach on flood plain area or nesting areas in building this restaurant. Kingrey asked what use was intended for the land in question. Jessen j answered that in a field study that Les Blacklock did for the city, he 1 highly recommended that this area be used for a wild life corridor and deer corridor. He felt it would enhance the whole conservation space. 1 Hess added that .the Preserve people did not feel the Supper Club would disturb. the wild life in any way. Anderson wanted to know whether we had the means of control after it has been sold. Penzel said if it is adopted as a revision of the Preserve's PUD approved by the Council. It it does not meet with this concept, we would have a legal basis for denying it, even though it might involve a hassle. Jessen commented that he had met several times with these people and they are in good shape with the Anderson Lake basic concept. He added that pedestrian connections should occur along W. 78th St. The only conflict is the node in the northwest corner. l_ The pros and cons of the proposed supper club were discussed. Penzel felt it would be a good thing if it were done well. Hess commented that he knew Mr. Blacklock well and said Blacklock wishes for a wild life blend and a supper club could fit 'intD that idea. He suggested using the liquor license to control it. MOTION Anderson made motion to follow recommendation of Staff report of March 17, 1975, excluding the building of a supper club. Garens seconded and the motion carried with Penzel abstaining. f Anderson asked Hess to continue his inquiry into the supper club idea. C. Mitchell Takes Estates Jessen requested postponing the presentation because of the lateness of the hour. The pnrties present were in agreement. III. RECOVITENDATIONS AND REPORTS A. Indoor Facilities Re ort (Addll information) Mr. John Cvetnic reviewed report presented at the last meeting and presented new information in response to questions put forth by the Commission members. He said that Shakopects bond issue was defeated, with the otherissue of a Municipal Services Bldg. passing. They felt the reason for this was that Shakopee's was a single arena, not a proposal for a multi-purpose facility. t ; japproved Minutes - Park & Rea. Page Six Commission March 17, 1975 A. Indoor Facilities Report (Cont'd) He had talked to Dr. Fallon on hockey program and the plan was to maintain the quality of the hockey program right now. The request next year for ice hours will be about 100 hours. The issue of a new school is under study and the findings will come out within the next 6 months. A firm from Golden Valley offered help in defining arenas, cost, etc.. They quoted a basic building cost of 4p520,000 for a. facility for 1200 people. With extra items like air conditioning, it could boost it to $616,000. After adding road, water, parking, and walks it brings the figure to $$674,000. Tennis deck and miscellaneous items bring it to $716,000. Cvetnic quoted $4500 depreciation for Braemar's arena and said ours would be about the same. This would come out of revenues. Conversion cost would be about $2,000 and estimates on putting in and taking out tennis deck would be about 000. The original figure quoted for outside rental verbal committments was 170 hours. Cvetnic said after talking to people from Waconia, Chanhassen, Chaska, Shakopee, Edina, and Bloomington he received a verbal committment of about 412 rental hours. The 17J+0 hours of open skating time would also bring in revenue. l Garens asked whether they wanted it as a part of the general bond issue or let it stand on its oim. They felt it could stand on its owns said Cvetnic. Mr. Don Opheim asked the Commission's opinion as to how they felt on an overall comprehensive package or whether it should stand on its own merits. Choinier didn't feel the timing was right because of previous priorities that will be presented in a referendum. He was not against concept, just the timing. Opheim said he had talked to many people about priorities. One of the things that came back was recreational facilities other than parks and open spaces. IIe asked what were the priorities, how did they get to that position, and how do they serve areas that do not have access to Round Lake. Choiniere answered that neighborhood facilities are not parks but recreational facilities. It is not a question of more park land but of recreation facilities. Anderson said the City is in a good position to receive a good amount of funding for the Riley Lake Park from the Federal government and felt we had to set money aside to take advantage of chances like this that come along. Opheim asked whether there were funds left from the previous bond issue. Jessen said the balance is quite low. / approved I Minutes - Park & Rec. Page Seven Commission March 17, 1975 A. Indoor Facilities Report (Conttd) Erickson asked how soon can we come up with a proposal regarding neighborhood facilities. He felt the whole issue should be together because everyone will be working for the same thing. He felt the voters would buy the whole package because there is something for everybody. Ile was skeptical on whether they could solve the neighborhood facilities issue at the next meeting. Kingrey asked about the 16% figure quoted of people participating in hockey. Cvetnic said that was Bloomington's figure. Eden Prairie's figure was 15%, or about 300 persons, and represents 50% growth from last year. Mr. Walter June commented that not'all persons will have access to the facility at Round Lake. He felt that the combination of issues would be competitive to the voters. Kingrey asked how they planned to"sell" the program to the voters. Cvetnic said they would get the message across in every way possible, through literature, person--to-person contact, and newspaper. Sopzak added that presentation of information at meetings of the service clubs, would be an excellent way of getting through to the people. Kingrey asked whether the hockey people could wait for our problem to be solved on the neighborhood facilities study. Cvetnic wanted a definition of "wait". He felt they needed to proceed according to their schedule. Jessen added that approval of a special election question has to occur in late April or early May. f0 I0 Garens made the motion that we recommend to the Council that we are consider- ing a bond issue including neighborhood facilities, bikeway/hikeway paths, open space, and an indoor hockey tennis pavilion. Kingrey seconded the motion. Jessen asked for a point of clarification on whether this would be one issue, or one question. Mary Hayden, of the League of Women Voters, said they had taken a poll and she felt that unofficially the people were for separate issues. Penzel asked what the direction of the motion was. Erickson answered that it to let hockey people know and Council know what we are going to be doing in the near future. The Commission was in agreement that they did not want the hockey issue going out first. Garens withdrew the motion. Kingrey withdrew the second. i approved Minutes - Park & Rec. Page Eight Commission March 17, 1975 A. Indoor Facilities Report (Cont1d) MOTION Garens made the motion that the Park and Recreation Commission, as a. matter of direction, let the Council and the people here know, that we intend 'to have a bond issue including neighborhood facilities, bikeway/ hikoway paths, acquisition of open space, and indoor hockey-tennis facility. The nature of the bond issue to be sited at a later date to be one bond issue or a component bond issue. Choiniere seconded and the motion carried unanimously. Jessen called for a point of clarification. He felt there seems to be some support in one referendum, and questioned how many questions to be asked. Mr. John Olsen, President of Hockey Association, asked for a date, and wanted to know whether it would be in the time frame of their plans. Erickson answered the Commission was having a special meeting on March 31 with the intention of solving the neighborhood facilities issue. B. Recreation Program Report 1. 3-975 Beach Operations Report. Postponed. 2. Community Gardens r Postponed. 3. 1975 Cooler Choiniere moved to approve the date of April 5 for the 7th Annual Eden Prairie Cooler. Garens seconded the motion and it carried. IV.DISCUSSIONS A. IAO uestrian Center Program Postponed. V. PJOURNI Y.NT Garens motioned to adjourn at 1:30 AM and Choiniere seconded the motion. It carried unanimously. MJ:ds . AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PARK & RECREATION COMMISSION Monday, March 31, 1975 7:30 PM, CITY HALL COMMISSION MEMBERS: Marvin Erickson, Wolfgang Penzel, • Francis Helmer, Richard Anderson, William Garens, Dorothy Bennett, Paul Choiniere, Mary Upton, Jerry Kingrey, Elizabeth Tracy, Brian Mikkelson and Steve Fifield, Ex- Officio COMMISSION STAFF: Marty Jessen, Director of Community Services Chris Enger, Landscape Architect Sandy Werts, Recreation Program Supervisor Donna Stanley, Recording Secretary ROLL CALL I. MINUTES OF JANUARY 20, 1975 PARK AND RECREATION MEETING . MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 3 1975 PARK AND RECREATION MEETING . MINUTES OF MARCH 3 1975 PARK AND RECREATION MEETING . MINUTES OF MARCH 17 1975 PARK AND RECREATION MEETING . II. ORGANIZATION A. Consideration of Revised Ordinance and Bylaws (Copy of Ordinance and Bylaws reviewed by Attorney attached; copy of Attorney's letter previously distributed). Action Motion recommending to the City Council the l: adoption of the Revised Ordinance; or continue or deny. Action Motion directing staff to place the suggested 2: Bylaws on the Commission agenda following Council action on the Revised Ordinance. III. DISCUSSION OF PARK CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM NEEDS. Action: Motion to forward information to City Council and requesting a joint meeting for the purpose of discussing the program and financing tools; or continue or deny. IV. ADJOURNMENT. approved l M I N U T E S EDEN PRAIRIE PARK AND RECREA`.CION CO2.1MISSION MONDAY, MARCH 31, 1975 7:30 PM CITY HALL COI.1I-1ISSION hEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Marvin Erickson, Francis Helmer, Richard Anderson, William Garens, Paul Choiniere, Mary Upton, Jerry Kingrey, Brian Mikkelson, and Steve Fifield, Ex-Officio f COI,MISSION I,11,2'IBERS ABSENT: Dorothy Bennett, Wolfgang Penzel, and Elizabeth Tracy STAFF I•MM)BERS PRESENT: Marty Jessen, Director of Community Services OTHERS PRESENT: Thomas Peterson, Carolyn L"yngdal, Jo Anne Scobie, Lynne Forster, League of Women Voters, Perry Forster, Dale Locomen, Pres. of EPAA, Judy Schuck, League of Women Voters, Ed Schuck, Nyla Jensen, Ns. & Mrs. L. E. IeNuldy, Karen Edstrom, Mr. & Mrs. John Cvetnic, John Olsen, Pres. of EPHA, Dick Emahiser, Don Opheim, J. Stoike, Nancy Autio, M. Hayden, Dennis Hayden, C. Anderson, Donald Pennie, Jim Carlin, Bob Hallett, Principal of Forest Hills Elementary, Kathleen Sark, Richard Strohkireh, John Weiss, Sun Newspaper, Jeff Pederson, Community News, Mrs. Blacklock, Geneva Middleton The meeting; was called to order by Chairman Erickson at 7:30 PM. He suggested dispensing; with the past minutes. The order of business was changed in response to requests from hockey spokesman and League of Women representative to present their reports. Chairman Erickson allotted each person 15 minutes. Mr. Cvetnic spoke for the indoor recreational facility in response to discussion , at last ,sleeting; reparding; the best approach, as far as referendum goes, as to what is best for the people of Eden Prairie. He said they had studied the package given them by the Staff and tried to got a better understanding of these issues. He felt the major concern was cost and how retch the people of Eden Prairie would be will.iligr to pay for the program. He stated the alternatives they had come up with, which included suggestions for cutting out some of the tennis courts and ballfields, a ton or 2D per cent reduction on land acquisition, in order to make the package less than $2,000,000. Mr; Ed Schuck, of the Topview area, said their area had a meeting with Anderson and Jessem tnd discussed park issues. They concluded that they wanted to support the part: program. IIe wasn't convinced that the split issue would not be acceptable. Upton commented that most of the phone calls which she had received were from r people who were in support of soparate issues. 1 . r. f approved Minutes - Park & Roc. Page Two Commission March 31, 1975 Mrs. Judy Scliuck, Chairwoman of the evening unit of the League of Women Voters, presented the position of the League. She stated that the League did a study before there was a park bond or ice facility issue to consider. A research coirunittee was formed to study, the topic of park development in general. She added that the Eden Prairie units of the League of Women Voters support: 1. Establishment of objective criterea for determining park development needs. 2. Minimal development of neighborhood park playgrounds. 3. Further development of the community park playgrounds at Prairie View, Forest Hills, and .Round Lake. 4. Continuod acquisition of unique areas for community parks in accordance with the 1968 Guide Plan. 5. The implementation of the bi.koway/hikeway system as set forth in the bikeway/hikeway task force report. 6. , Extensive cooperation between the City of Eden Prairie wid school district 272 for development, uses, and maintenance of jointly owned recreational facilities. She added that this report was used on different issues being presented. More information on the ice facility was desired. Mrs. Lynne Forster, League of Women Voters, reported on the survey taken. She stated that their reasons were twofold. The first reason was to generate interest in the League's booth, and the second was to attempt to get a wider sampling of community interest and priorities. . She said that 87% were eligible voters and over 50;0' were in favor of the park plan. Cvetnic commented that the surveys conducted show that the people of Eden Prairie. want recreational facilities and are ready for it. He said this type of survey could contain data that might be unfair and misleading, using the ice arena as an example. He said to many people in Eden Prairie an ice arena denotes an expensive, elaborate arena for hockey players only. Forster answered that this was not what they intended. It was not taken with the intent to be in favor for or against any issue, but only meant as a public service. Anderson said he would like to compliment the League for conducting the study. He felt that this type of study was needed and that it has been difficult for the Conmission to conduct such a study. Cvetnic commented that lie didn-'t consider the survey as being unfair, but just wanted to point out the dangers of such a survey. Chairman Erickson directed the meeting to Item III on the agenda. III. DISCUSSION OF PARK CAPITAL Tldl'ROVEJNT PROGRAtd N.EMS Jossen presented Staff report of February 27, 1975, wJiich contained r lapproved Minutes - Park & Rec. Page Three Coimnission March 31, 1975 C IIT. DISCUSSION OF P 'IT PROGftA14 NMDS (CONT'D) basically 3 component parts of the park improvement plan. The first component being the neighborhood playgrounds, the second is priority pathway corridors, i•ihich the Staff had applied for Community Development Revenue Sharing funds and Federal Aid Urban funds to help finance these trails, and the third component being community parks, which also will be partially funded through Federal funds. He continued that a 1.5 million dollar bond issue would cost the takpayers approximately from u15.30 to $33.30. A three million dollar bond issue would be tip30.60 to 5r66.60 per. year. Jessen emphasized that the indebtedness would not be in excess of limits. Erickson asked whether we are committed to using the money for purposes that have changed. Jessen said that the balance of a bond issue should continue tY:e thinking that was stated to accomplish. At present, these are goal_ et.•rtements and estimates, which are based on the best research available- ulthbut going into too much money. Jo Anne Scobie asked whether there was citizen input and whether residents of that area have expressed any desires. Jessen said that all of the estimates are based on prototype neighborhood programs, in which there are neighborhood meetings for input, discussion with landowners, etc.. Helmer asked about definite acreage being necessary. Jessen answered that parts of land acquisition are flexible. 140TION Garens moved that we study the bond issue as a four part component already discussed and move upon each one in concept, so we can tell the Council and people which direction we are going. Motion died for lack of a second. t Kingrey asked whether there was a contingency on each item. Jessen said there is not a contingency on land acquisition, but there is a contingency on development fund. Kingrey felt we should have a contingency if we go on concept approach. lie was concerned about having enough money. Jessen said the study of today represents the changes that we have sensed. The figures are fairly accurate. The actual detail won't be known until bias are secured etc.. These estimates are acceptable for discussion with the Council. Kingrey and Upton felt we should go to the joint meeting, with a dollar amount and negotiate from there with a concept. Anderson commented that thoy had asked Staff for this recommendation and expressed confidence in their findings. '3Lpproved Minutes - Park & Roc. Page Four Commission March 31, 1975 III. DISCUSSION OF PARK CAPITAI. I1,EPFZOM, ENT PROGRAM NEEDS (COIdT1D) MOTION Anderson moved to accept concept of Staff report of Feb. 27, 1975, which includes land acquisition priorities, neighborhood playgrounds, and trails, and send it on to the joint meeting; with the Council. Garens seconded and the motion carried, with Choiniere casting the dissenting vote. Helmer called for a point of clarification on voting for the concept rather than the cost amount. Bob Hallett, Principal of Forest Hills Elementary, asked when it would be doeided as to how many ball diamonds were included for the community, as the number of kids taking part in baseball was increasing and they had to know how many they could accomodate. lie wanted more than a concept. Jensen referred to the overheads he had presented at the beginning of _ the discussion showing what the concept implied in terms of the increased number of youth participation in baseball. Fran Blacklock commented on the last bond issue and how it was handled by distributing literature and informing the people exactly what was involved. She felt it was important for people to know all of the facts. Erickson added that the Commission did not go right out and spend money from the bond issue, but has been doing it gradually over the past six years, when the need arises. Dale Lommen, Pres. of EPAA, commented on the situation at Flying Cloud Field. He felt there would be an increased demand for the ball fields because of more girls participating. He felt .that the older age group .could have to be turned down because of lack of ball diamonds, and this would work against El'AA's commitment to serve all of Eden Prairie. Jessen asked for a point of clarification regarding a date -to give to the Council for the joint meeting. Erickson asked Jessen to work it out. Jessen suggested Thursday, April 10, and it was agreeable to everyone. Kingrey asked whether Commission will be expected to discuss indoor recreation facility at this meeting. MOTION Garens made the motion that we discuss with the Council the plan for an indoor recreation facility for hockey and tennis at the sum of v750,000. Anderson seconded the motion and it carried unanimously. MOTION Garens moved that a swimming pool not be included in -the bond issue and fools it should be part of a school facility. Kingroy seconded. The motion carried with Upton and Choiniere abstaining. Prapproved Minutes - Park & Rec. Page Five Commission March 31, 1975 C III, DISCUSSION OF PARK CAPITAI. IMPROVDMIENT PRomm NEEDS (CONTID) Geneva Middleton eonmented that a point that had never been explored regarding a swimming pool was that pools connected with schools are usually not metered and do not have the seating capacity to allow competitive meets. She felt a pool could be used by all of the people, even senior citizens. She added that eight years ago a survey was conducted and the sirimming pool had top priority, but we still do not have a pool. Don Pennie asked Hallett how long it would take before the new school would be built. Hallett answered about 1�s years, with a year to actually build it. Pennie felt that Round Lake was inadequate and that leaves residents with no swimming facilities for children to learn how to swim. lie felt that Eden Prairie was derelict in swimproofing our children. He suggested building the swimming pool before the school. Upton commented that the swimming, people should have organized and it is too late at this point. Jessen said that either 3 or 4 questions were involved, or only one. He felt flexibilit7 was important and did not want to lock acreages. If if was worth raising the question, it should be made appealing to the voter. Anderson said three points are important, neighborhood facilities, access to these which are bikeway/hikeway paths, and available money for land acquistions set aside to take advantage of federal Government funding offers. He added that these are all tied together. Choiniere said people who have called him have stated they would like to see separate issues, so they can strike off what they do not want. He stressed the importance of a clear issue. Schuck felt that because it was a plan, he feels we would make a mistake to separate it. He recommended a two ballot issue. Choiniere said that most of the people he talked with were not in favor of the ice arena or open space, but feel it is a question of the waenities at this point. 2 LOTION Anderson moved that a bond issue be recommended to the Council and it should contain two separate: parts. 1. Neighborhood playgrounds, trails, and community parks at $$1,6000,000 2. Indoor recreation facility at $750,000. The motion was seconded by Upton. A roll call vote was requested with the following results: Andorson-yay iiikkel.son-nay Garens-abstain Kingroy-yay Choiniere-nay ( Upton-yay Helmer-nay Erickson-yay Motion carried. Motion was made to adjourn at 10:50 PM by Garens, seconded by Upton, and carried unanimously. MJ:ds