Parks and Recreation - 02/13/1975 1975
FEBRUARY 3 , 13
MINUTES
CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE
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AGENDA
EDEN PRAIRIE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION
Monday, February 3 , 1975 7:30 PM, CITY HALL
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Marvin Erickson, Wolfgang Penzel,
Francis Helmer, Richard Anderson, William
Garens, Dorothy Bennett, Paul Choiniere,
Mary Upton, Jerry Kingrey, Elizabeth Tracy, r
Brian Mikkelson and Steve Fifield, Ex-
Off icio
COMMISSION STAFF: Marty lessen, Director of Community Services
Chris Enger, Landscape Architect
Sandy Werts, Recreation Program Supervisor
Donna Stanley, Recording Secretary
ROLL GALL
I. MINUTES OF JANUARY 20, 1975 MEETING .
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II. DISCUSSION OF NEIGHBORHOOD FACILITIES PORTION OF
PARK SYSTEM PLAN.
III. DISCUSSION OF COUNCIL LIAISON TO THE COMMISSION.
IV. ADJOURNMENT.
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M I N U T E S
EDEN PRAIRIE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION
MONDAY, FEBRUARY 3, 1975 7:30 PM, CITY HALL
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Marvin Erickson, Wolfgang Penzel,
Francis Helmer, Richard Anderson,
William Garens, Paul Choiniere,
and Jerry Kingrey
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COMtrIISSION MMABERS ABSENT: Mary Upton, Dorothy Bennett,
Elizabeth Tracy, Brian Mikkelson, . ,
and Steve Fifield, Ex-Officio
STAFF MEMBERS PRESENT: Marty Jessen, Director of Community Services r`
OTHERS PRESENT: Mrs. Marv. Erickson, Lynne Forster and
Joanne Scobie, League of Women Voters,
Betty Anderson, Eden Prairie School Board, E
Michael Scherer, and Gene Moore, Community News h
Meeting was called to order by Chairman Erickson at 7:40 PM. Erickson informed
the Commission that he had to leave at 9:30, therefore would like to proceed to
priority items on the Agenda. As February 17 is a holiday, Erickson postponed
the next meeting to Saturday, February 22, at 9:00 AM. This meeting would include +<
a review of the facilities at Red Rock Ranch. Erickson appointed Garens as
Chairman to take over meeting when he had to leave, as Mrs. Upton, Vice-Chairperson,
C - was not present.
I. MINUTES OF JANUARY 20, 1975 ]=ING,
Postponed. h
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II. DISCUSSION OF NEIGHBORHOOD FACILITIES PORTION OF PARK SYSTEM PLAN,
Chairman Erickson explained that he and Garens had taken part in many
lengthy discussions on community development facilities for the committee.
At this time,our priorities were Forest Hills, Round Lake, and Prairie View.
Erickson asked that the Commission agree upon a program, a bond issue, ana
how much to spend if we are going to have a bond issue. He opened the
meeting for discussion.
Garens suggested using the Metro Classification Guide of various park areas r;
and requested that copies be passed out. Jessen answered that copies of
the guide had been handed out in July. It defined the various size parks
and their objectives in 1968.
Erickson wondered if we all agreed as to what the purpose of the neighborhood :
facility was and what we are aiming for.
Jessen said that one of the things that is pointed out in the 1968 Metro
Classification system that Garens alluded to relates throughout the park
system. What is a neighborhood park and what purpose does it serve?
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Minutes - Park & Rec. February 3, 1975
Commission
Approved
II. DISCUSSION OF NEIGHBORHOOD FACILITIES PORTION OF PARK SYSTEM PLAN.(CONT'D)
Originial discussion of July 30 defined parks as areas to be used for:
1. intensive active recreational uses
2. open space amenit -general neighborhood in which it is situated
(landscaping etc.
3. means of protecting or preserving natural resources within the
neighborhood.
Jessen said Prairie View is self-explanatory for a 15 acre school
site, rather than 7. The land is flat and usabl®, unlike Forest Hills.
Iie added that the 1968 guide plan set out long range goals for the
community and some have been achieved. At this point, he feels the
Commission would want to plan for the next 5 years.
Choiniere said as he hears input, he can't help but feel that the main
thrust should be towards development of a good share of the land we
already own and buy remaining land as it becomes feasible. He added,
there is apparently a lot of concern because within a development there
is no area for small children to play where mothers can keep sight of
them. He feels that if we are to be responsive. to people's suggestions
for more facilities in areas not currently served, we need to add
mini-parks in developments, such as the Red Rock area and emphasis
toward neighborhood park facilities.
Mr. Michael Scherer offered suggestions for Commission's consideration.
He stressed that he feels any action should be done in an organized way.
Anderson called attention to the report of December 30, prepared by the
Staff, and commented that the Commission has been discussing this all
along. The report was in response to the three requested prototypes.
Jessen commented that when the report was put together, they tried to
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put into context land acquisition cost, cost of 5 high priority sites,
and cost of intense development at Prairie View, Forest Hills, and
Round Lake, because they are community parks. He suggested the
Commission research the needs of the community. Jessen added that land
acquisitions,:are critical to what will be done on the subject of
neighborhood facilities. '
Choiniere suggested presenting plans to the people for a bond referendum,
but wants all choices presented, with nothing deleted.
Penzel commented that in providing choices, there is a danger that none
of the choices will receive enough votes to succeed. The bond must pro-
vide opportunity for one choice to succeed.
Jessen asked Chairman Erickson whether all choices be on the ballot or
whether a straw vote be taken on the 3 items so the bond issue could be
one choice.
Erickson asked about the joint school questionaire regarding 1980-1990
facilities. Jessen answered that the results showed that the number one
( need was for tennis courts, second was a swimming pool. 50% responded
for indoor ice arena.
VMMtes - Park & Rec. Page Thre®
Commission February 3, 1975
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II. DISCUSSION OF NEIGHBORHOOD FACILITIES PORTION OF PARK SYSTEM PLAN. (CONT'D)
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Penzel added that in a survey you should include a price because you
will get a different outlook than if you surveyed preferences only,
without the cost.
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Anderson and Garens agreed that land acquisition and development for
facilities are important and the Commission would be negligent in its
responsibility if they deviated from 1968 guide plan. They felt that
we should have some funds set aside to look ahead and follow guide plan.
Erickson called a point of information on whether the'.Dec. 30 report,
if adopted, could be deleted and added to.
Jessen answered that it could be, and the report was a guide.
Anderson moved to accept recommendation for bond issue, using Staff report
of Dec. 30 as a guide, exicluding ice arena, pool, field house, and picnic
pavillion, and adding lst phase of trail planning system and long range plan
r according to 1968 Comprehensive Guide plan. Penzel seconded the motion
and it carried with a vote of 5-2, with Choiniere and Erickson casting
dissenting votes. Jessen commented that the ice arena, pool, and field
house could hot. be -funded by revenue bonds.
Jessen asked what the sense of the Commission was regarding direction of
the Staff at this point. Garens answered they would like cost of bond
issue, what land we will purchase and price city must pay, and amount of
money we will have to share in the funding of Riley Lake.
Erickson asked what type of date will we look for the bond issue. Jessen
said early summer date would be a good time for a park referendum. ,
Choiniere suggested focusing discussion on neighborhood facilities and
feels we have gone astray.
Anderson answered that even though we have not set down our goals and
direction, we have emphasized neighborhood facilities, but would not
forget about trail ways and long range acquisition. This, he felt, was
giving ourselves a sense of direction. He asked how can you discuss
neighborhood facilities without discussing trail ways etc.? He added
that his position was that we should study what we feel is a 3 part
bond issue for neighborhood facilities, and feels strongly that we are
taking a strong positive direction.
Helmer said his reason for leaning toward neighborhood parks is that we
have leaned toward open space quite a bit already. He feels neighborhood
parks are more important.
Erickson turned over the meeting at 9:30 to Garens to continue discussion
and review in detail land acquisition in priority areas on page 1 of
Dec. 30 report.
1, Kingrey asked about the high school, middle school area. Jessen answered
the school grounds do meet the minimum requirements we are setting up for
Minutes - Park & Rea. Page Four
Commission February 3, 1975
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II. DISCUSSION OF NEIGHBORHOOD FACILITIES PORTION OF-PARK SYSTEM PLAN CONTID
other areas with a baseball field, football field, and hockey rink.
Tennis courts could be added here, he added.
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Garens asked whether there were any more high priority areas.
Choiniere stated that he did not feel the Commission was following
through on the neighborhood facilities.
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Anderson called a point of order, pointing out that Chairman Erickson
had decided earlier in the meeting that we are going in the right
direction and we are not limiting what would be discussed.
Jessen said a neighborhood facility will have to be
d for in
the Hidden Ponds area. Anderson asked whether a school vseinvolved
in that area. Jessen answered that as of now, the school is not
involved. F:
Jessen suggested adding Hidden Ponds, Edenvale, and Red Rock Center to list of priority-areas because of development presaure.
Edenview was discussed. Jessen said he feels it will not be dedicated t,
in the near future. He felt that 19 acres would be a good site plan, r_
rather than the 12 acres listed, and asked Commission whether it was
their consensus to have more land in Edenview. Garens recommended, in f#
view of discussion, an increase to 19 a.cres'in Edenview area.
Lighting tennis courts, football and baseball fields, and hockey rinks
was discussed. Helmer asked whether they could be taken off the
report for recommendation. Jessen said it could be done. Penzel
pointed out that if lights were eliminated now and it was decided later
that they are needed, it will be difficult to finance them.
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Mrs. Betty Anderson, of the School Board, commented that the adding of {lights to hockey rink will extend use beyond school hours and will present
a need for a warming house.
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Kingrey made the motion to leave Prairie View intense development as is
with addition of warming house. Anderson seconded the motion and it
carried with a vote of 4-2, with Choiniere and Helmer casting dissenting
votes. They favored the Level 1, minimal development. ?e
Helmer questioned the need for intense development at Prairie View.
Jessen sited a letter from Dale Lommen stating that something had to
be done at Prairie View because of facilities being inadequate and
dangerous. Jessen said there was a need for hockey facilities,and
tennis courts in neighborhood school park are appropriate in this xe
elementary area. He doesn't feel they are being duplicated and there
is a need for them. Anderson added that Round Lake gives lake type ~C. activities in addition to other.
Approved
Minutes - Park & Rec. Page Five
February 3, 1975
II. DISCUSSION OF NEIGHBORHOOD FACILITIES PORTION OF PARK SYSTEM PLAN (CONT'D)
A break was taken at 10:00 PM.
Meeting was called back to order at 10:10 PM. Garens informed the
Commission that two members have to leave at 10330, so they will lose
quorum. He invited remaining members to stay and informally discuss
issues further.
Minimal development on page two was taken%up. Jessen said he would
have to study it further and wanted comments on whether they are
appropriate sites and whether they .were minimal enough or not.
Garens asked Choiniere and Helmer their feelings on what the Edenview
area needed, since they lived there. Helmer thought they could use
tennis courts. Choiniere feels he would be for land acquisition and
look for tennis courts in Birch Island because we already own it. He
didn't feel the grading would cause any problem. Penzel felt that the
parking would be difficult in the winter. Choiniere also suggested a
hockey rink for Birch Island. Jessen said he is looking into hockey
facilities. Penzel suggested including the research that has been
done with the Lindbergh bubble and the failure it has been. Choiniere E
felt that Birch Island should be added to the list.
Garens made a motion to include a tennis court as part of Edenview site
at Birch Island. Penzel seconded the motion and it carried with a vote
of 5 yay, and 1 nay by Choiniere. Anderson recalled vote and asked for
abstention changing the vote to 4 yay, 1 nay, and 1 abstention. Choiniere
commented that he was for land acquisition, while Anderson abstained
because he felt that if the persons who lived in that area didn't want
the courts, he wouldn't vote for it.
III. ADJOURMMI
Garens moved to adjourn at 1Ot40 PM. Motion was seconded by Anderson and
carried unanimously.
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MINUTES
Joint Council/Planning Commission/Parr & Recreation
meeting with The Preserve Approved
February 13, 1975 7:00 PM City Hall
Council
MEMBERS PRESENT Joan Meyers, Wolfgang Penzel, .Sidney Pauly
Planning Commission
Dick Feerick, Dick Lynch
Park & Recreation Commission
Steve Fifield
Staff
Dick Putnam
Preserve Commercial Center Presentation
Preserve Staff: Larry Gardner, Bob Benson, Lee Johnson, George Carter,
Ken Persons, Don Hess, Everett Strand, Mike Woods,
John Hissink, Loren Galpin, Larry Giesler.
Mr. Galpin presented the background data relating to the market area, the
buying power of the trade area, the projected population, and commercial
office absorbtion for the Major Center and Preserve properties in the future.
This data will be compiled in a brochure and distributed to the Council and
( commissions as resource information.
The Preserve Commercial Plan concept was discussed for each of the areas,
(A-H), covering natural features, environmental constraints, access,
potential buffering with related uses and market potential . Mr. Galpin
then reviewed the Preserve Commercial Plan brochure submitted to the City.
The Preserve believed these points related to commercial planning in
Eden Prairie's approval porcess:
1. It supports Eden Prairie's position on the MCA as exemplified in
MCA Task Force Report.
2. It supports the Ring Route Plan.
3. It supports the increased share for City cost of the Ring Route.
4. It supports the 169 upgrading.
5. It supports the 494/169 freeway ramps.
6. It supports the Eden Prairie assessment method for the Ring Route.
7. It supports the donation of Ring Route right-of-way and 169 right-
of-way; and believes that in properties where right-of-way costs
are incurred that cost should be spread over the assessment area.
8. It supports the separation of storm sewer cost by drainage areas.
9. It recognizes the need for adequate entrances and exits to the Ring
Route to serve The Preserve Commercial Plan.
10. It hopes for early zoning and platting of all of the land in the
Commercial Plan.
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Joint Council/Planning Commission/Park -2- February 13, 1975
& Recreation Meeting with The Preserve
These basic questions were raised by the Council and Planning Commission
regarding the presentation:
I. How will the density credit and/or sales versus the assessment
method work for the scenic easement plans or open space areas?
2. The marketability of housingirithe fbod plain areas versus
commercial development.
3. Will platting, (preliminary plat and final plat), allow flexibility
if property lines have to be changed in the future, or'will it be
too. firm of a commitment?
4. Quest.ions about the dedication .of the lake edge versus the scenic
easement on the Anderson Lakes with an elevation of 839.6' .
5. The 12 year development time frame projected with about 40-50%
completion expected within a 5 year period - Is this realistic?
6. How should the City proceed with completing the MCA PUD Ordinance,
and the general planned unit development ordinance.
7. Can the plan be intensified in future years, and if so, what are
the ramifications?
Actions:
The Council members asked that the staff and City attorney investigate
changing existing Ordinance 135 to allow for zoning of PUD districts, by
changing Section 11 of Ordinance No. 135 and other related sections. The
Council asked that this item of the PUD zoning be placed on the February 25th
Council agenda.
Motion:
Penzel moved, Pauly seconded, to continue the public hearing for The Preserve
Commercial Plan to the March 25th Council meeting and refer The Preserve
Commercial Plan to the Planning and Park & Recreation Commissions. The
motion passed 3:0
Adjournment:
The meeting adjourned at 11:15 PM
Respectfully submitted,
Richard Putnam, Planning Director
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MEMORANDUM
TO: Park and Recreation Commission
FROM: Marty Jessen, Director of Community Services .
SUBJECT: Meetings
DATE: February 7, 1975
At the February 3 meeting, the Commission decided to not meet on
Monday, February 17, because it is a holiday. Instead the Commission
will meet on Saturday, February 22 , at 9:00 AM at Rock Isle Ranch at
Bryant Lake. I have cleared this with Ward Holasek. After the tour
of the Ranch facilities, the Chairman requests that you return to the
City Hall for a short discussion on the program potential for this
facility.
The Preserve will be presenting its Commercial Area Plan at a meeting
on Thursday, February 13,, at 7:30 PM at the City Hall. This is an
C., informational meeting at which time questions and concerns about the
proposal will be addressed. Further review will take place before the
Commission following the February 13 Meeting so that recommendations
may be forwarded to the Council.
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