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Parks and Recreation - 07/15/1974 0 1974 JULY 8 , 15 MINUTES CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE i MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARK & RECREATION COMMISSION MONDAY, JULY 8, 1974 7:30 PM, City Hall MEMBERS PRESENT: Marvin Erickson, Bill Garens, Richard Anderson, Jan Berkland, Francis Helmer, Wolfgang Penzel MEMBERS ABSENT: William Bye, Paul Enblom STAFF PRESENT: Marty Jessen, Director of Community Services, Jodi Gelling, Recreation Supervisor, Terri Thompson, student intern OTHERS PRESENT: Steve Irrifield, Mr. & Mrs. John Kirtland, Mrs. Sandra Anderson, Jerome Jacques, Len Swedlund, Mr. & Mrs. Joseph Dolejsi, Mr. Art Bandimere, James E. Thomas, Howard W. Merriman, David Perrizo, Colleen Evans, Perry Forster, Edward Frank The meeting was called to order at 7:40 p.m. by Chairman Marvin Erickson. I. MINUTES OF THE TUNE 3_, 1974 MEETING C Moved Penzel, seconded Anderson that the minutes be approved as presented. Motion carried unanimously. Report of June 17 , 1974 presentation--it was moved by Penzel, seconded Garens, that the report be approved as presented. Motion carried unanimously. II. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. Communication from Edward Frank concerning his desire to sell Cedar Hills Golf and Ski. Mr. Frank stated that it was the Durance Co.'s intention to liquidate all of the land which they presently hold and he was talking to the City merely to find out if the City had any interest at all in the property which is owned by the company. He pointed out that the Vantage Co., which manages Cedar Hills, has run $60,000 per year in capital costs into their operating statements. In 1973 there were 25 ,000 miles of golf played at Cedar Hills; approximately 35 ,000 ski tickets purchased. Jessen stated that many questions about the course were unanswered. He felt that the staff could develop some answers within 3 to 4 weeks so that the Commission could deliberate with better information. Erickson suggested that this be done and that he felt this was a desirable asset to the community-- one that was used a great deal by the young people of Eden Prairie and not to be maintained for that purpose. It was moved Garens, and seconded Berkland that the staff be directed to study Cedar Hills Golf and Ski area and make recommendations within three MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION MONDAY, JULY 8, 1974 PAGE 2 II. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS (continued) A. (continued) weeks to be presented at the August 5 meeting. Motion carried unanimously. B. Letter to Al Gebhard requesting Riley-Purgatory Creek Watershed District service to determine water quality measures which are necessary at Round Lake. jessen advised that the letter had been sent to Gebhard and that the staff had been advised the lake should be treated with aquathol plus to elimi- nate the weed problem which presently is a source of great con- cern. Application forms for this program to treat the lake have been received from the State Department of Natural Resources. Discussion followed concerning the beach operation--many opinions were expressed by the Commission. Some felt that there should be additional Cpeople brought on board at both Round and Bryant Lakes to maintain a safer, more desirable operation. The thought was expressed that having an additional person at Round Lake would enable the people on duty to keep people from sneaking in so easily and also to eliminate some of the roughhousing presently going on on shore. Penzel suggested that perhaps an arrangement could be made with Public Safety to provide a Community Service Officer Police Cadet to work at the beaches during the very busy times so that the same goal could be reached but without adding additional paid staff to the beach operation. jessen stated that many of these points had been raised during the planning of the beach season but the budget constraints were such that additional people could not be brought on board. The idea of fencing the beach was explored but costs were prohibitive although now that Flying Cloud baseball fields will no longer be in use for EPAA Programming, some of that snow fencing can be put around Round Lake beach for the rest of the season. It was moved Garens, seconded Berkland that the staff proceed to treat the lake to control the present weed problem, fence the area, and secure from Public Safety some Community Services Officer Police Cadets to supervise the area during the very busy times. The motion carried unanimously. C MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION �. MONDAY, JULY 8, 1974 ( PAGE 3 II. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS C. Timber Trail Homeowners Communication. lessen indicated that this was an item from the June 17 agenda at which time no action was taken. Two of the people who own homes on Timber Trail within the Anderson Lakes park area contacted the City with regard to their desire to sell. Their properties were included in the grant appli- cation for Metro Funding money, however, the Metropolitan Park and Open Space Commission chose not to recommend approval of the purchase of any houses at this time. In light of this, Council directed the staff to communicate to these people the City's position which was not to proceed at this point until funding could be secured from the Metro. Funding Program. No action required. D. Board/Commission Members Tour, sponsored by Minnesota Recreation and Park Association Inc. This is also an item carried over from the June 17 meeting. The Minnesota Recreation and Park Assoc, sponsored a tour of some recreational facilities in the metropolitan area for Commission members. The tour took place on June 25. No action required. E. Communication from John Bucholtz concerning Darell Peterson's property on western Eden Prairie River Bluffs. lessen stated that the property which Peterson owns is included in the Bluff Protection and River Valley Acquisition Plan approved by the Park and Recreation Commission and Council this past spring. Included in the plan,which was adopted,was a recommendation to try to secure federal, state, and other funding to assist in the acquisition of this area. lessen suggested that in light of the plan which had been approved, that the City might proceed to make application for 1975 LAWCON avid State and Natural Resource Fund in an effort to acquire the property. He further stated that he felt there was a good possibility that the Watershed District would participate in funding the local share of this grant application and subse- quent acquisition. Discussion followed concerning whether or not the City ought to proceed with any action on the River bottom area at this time. A suggestion was made by Helmer that perhaps a steep slope ordinance would protect the bluff area as well as land acquisition. Penzel pointed out that the Flood- plain Ordinance governs what can and cannot be done in the River Valley area itself so that area is protected, although, that kind of regulation does MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION MO NDAY, JULY 8, 1974 PAGE 4 II. PETITIONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS (continued) E. (continued) not make the land available for any public use. It was moved by Anderson, seconded Garens to table this item until it can be studied by the Natural Resources Subcommittee of the Park and Recreation Commission. Motion carried unanimously. F. Letter from William H. Morrison concerning fees and charges for Round Lake beach. Jessen reviewed the letter of report which was distributed to the Commission and suggested that no non-resident season fees be established for the beaches for the 1974 season but that this should be included in the 1975 budget pro- posal. The further recommendation of the staff was to accept visitors on family season passes at $1. 00 per person. It was moved Berkland, seconded Helmer to accept the staff's recommendations concerning supplimental fees for Round Lake beach for the 1974 season. Motion carried unanimously. III. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORT S A. Riley Lake Park Report and Recommendation. Jessen quickly reviewed the report and maps concerning the staff recommen- dation for a park at Lake Riley including the recommendation to acquire 185 acres for community park. and playfield uses. It was moved by Anderson, seconded by Garens that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend to the City Council the Lake Riley Park Plan that was presented by the staff and proceed with further recommendations in the report dated July 5 , 1974. Anderson stated that his reason for the motion was that the City needs to take a look at the long-range objectives and goals of the community and that, inasmuch as prices don't go down for land in the area, we need to acquire land now so that we can insure the park system in the future. Mrs. Sandra Anderson, resident of the Riley Lake area, said that no one wants to sell out in that area now so there is no threat of development and thus no need to proceed now, . r _ MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION ( MONDAY, JULY 8, 1974 PAGE 5 III. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS (continued) A. (continued) Dick Anderson replied. that some day the land becomes so valuable that the peopledo want to sell undeveloped and that the City needs to move in advance of this kind of action to insure that the plan can be imple- mented . Mrs . Kirtland asked if Anderson's motion was to acquire all 185 acres now or to acquire it in stages which had previously been talked about. Anderson replied that his recommendation was to adopt the staff's report and recommendations including the phasing of acquisition so that only Schaitberger, Jacques and Miller would be required immediately. Mrs. Evans suggested that an alternative to the plan as presented would C. be t o acquire only Dutch's as access to the lake and then have a large parcel of open land back across the railroadtracks for the community park playfield purposes. Jessen stated that this was an option available, hov ever, itasmuch as the lakeshores were really the desirable attribute of the site, the acquisition of as much lakeshore as possible was proposed and, using that as a base for the community park use, community playfield uses on the Jacques farm area seemed more logical. Erickson asked the people present how they felt about the particular idea; most of those in attendance said that they were against the City acquiring any land inasmuch as they own the land and do not want to be displaced. Erickson reminded them that staff recommendation was to not displace people right now but phase acquisition to correspond with the peoples' desire to move out of the area. Also, occupancy arrangements could be worked out with the seller so that they could continue to live on the land until future development within the park would take place. Jessen stated that he felt a portion of the site might be developed within 8 to 10 years for the community park use. However, the development of the community playfield uses across Riley Lake Road would not occur for some time and until rather extensive residential development had occurred in the southwestern sector of Eden Prairie. MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION MO NDAY, JULY 8, 1974 PAGE 6 III. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS (continued) A. (continued) Erickson asked what kind of controls the City would have over the development which might occur at Dutch's Resort if he were to sell to some other buyer, jessen replied that the City would have the right to review any change in land use and could deny anything which they felt was inappropriate provided that they were not being arbitrary and capricious in their actions. Mrs. Evans suggested that some of the people in the Lake Riley area felt that City ownership of this land would insure much better use of it rather than having some private owner come in and propose all kinds of different land uses which might be far more detrimental to the lake environment. Motion by Anderson, seconded by Garens was then voted on and approved unanimously. Mrs. Kirtland said that she was under the impression that this item would not go to the City Council on one day's notice but would be held off so that the people in the area had t;me to review the Park and Recreation Commission's recommendation and respond to it for the Council's consideration. Erickson agreed that this had been said earlier. It was moved Helmer, seconded Garens that the item not finally be approved by the Council at the July 9 meeting but,that the final action be delayed until July 23 . jessen pointed out that the application deadline date for 1975 LAWCON Application was July 12 and thus, if the Riley Lake area were to be included in any application,the necessity for Council action of some type on the 9th was critical. Penzel suggested that the Council might authorize the planning of the grant application but delay final action on the Lake Riley plan until the 23rd and should they then not approve the Park and Recreation Commission's recommendation, could with- draw part of the LAWCON application. MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION <' MONDAY, JULY 8-, 1974 PAGE 7 i III. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS (continued) A. (continued) The motion made by Helmer, seconded by Garens was voted on-- it carried by a four to one vote with Penzel obstaining. Mr. Merriman,from the Lake Riley area,suggested that the Park and Recreation Commission vacancy which presently exists might be filled by someone from western Eden Prairie. Penzel asked if the people from the Riley Lake area had someone specific in mind--they could make a recommendation to the Mayor for his consideration in that the Mayor makes recommendations to the Council for Commission appointments. B. Report on Round Lake Tree Nursery. lessen reported that many smaller trees had been moved this summer by the teen work program participants and that most of them had suffered severe transplant shock but that they were hopeful with watering that the trees would survive. He had also stated that a number of trees had been tagged for fall moving and that the staff was considering putting together another teen work program for Saturdays so that they could bear root many of these trees and move them up to Round Lake yet in 1974. No action required. C. 1974 Summer Recreation Program--Progress Report Jodi Gelling distributed co pie s of the financial analysis of the programs for 1974 and copies of the report for 1973 for com- parative purposes. The deficit inthe 1974 program reflects the budget adopted by the City Council for 1974 which indicated some general fund expendatures towards the Summer Fun tiny tot programs rather than attempting to make them as close to self-supporting as they were in 1973. The increase costs of the program was reflected by the fact that the three locations at which they have been taking place as ppposed to one which was the case in 1973 . MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION MONDAY, JULY 8, 1974 PAGE 8 III. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS (continued) C. (continued) Jodi reported that 344 beach season tickets have been sold as of last week--she estimated approximately 50 additional tickets were sold during the week, bringing the total to nearly 400. The Teen Work Program has generally been going well although some of the people who have these young people assigned to work for them are having difficulty coming up with good work assignments such as the park maintenance area, etc . Gelling reported that the organized athletic season for adults is ending this week with the final games to be played by Saturday. Playoffs will begin next week with the winners of the playoffs to be entered in the state softball tournament. No action required. D. Shelter Corp. - Eden Farms rezoning consideration. lessen reported that the Planning Commission had voted to recommend to the Council that the PUD concept approval be withdrawn on the Eden Farms area and that it be zoned back to rural. lessen also reported that he talked to Bill Walter representing the Shelter Corp. and suggested that the City might be interested in acquiring the twelveacres identified as the best location for a neighborhood playground for approximately $40, 000. He also stated that if this purchase could be accomplished, the City may consider maintaining the PUD concept approval and extending it to stay in effect on the land. lessen stated that he felt this would be desirable for the City in that all of the significant natural features on the site, including the creek valley and the steep wooded knoll,had been protected through the PUD plan and dedicated to public open space pur- poses. The additional 12 acres could be acquired at a reasonable price, about $3,500 an acre, and Shelter would still have some additional densities which were accomplished as a result of the PUD approval. It was moved Garens, seconded Erickson that the Park and Recreation C Commission direct the staff to communicate to Shelter Corp. their desire to buy 12 acres for $40, 000 with the understanding that the MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION / MONDAY, JULY 8, 1974 PAGE 9 III. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS (continued) D. (continued) PUD concept approval would remain in effect on this area and that all of the open space committed under that PUD would still be accomplished. Motion carried unanimously. lessen suggested that if Shelter Corp. were to accept this offer, that the City should secure an agreement to buy the land and that this acquisition would be included in the Park Bond Issue proposal being developed for this fall. E. Smetana Lake Sector Plan - Dick Putnam, City Planner lessen distributed copies of the Smetana Lake Sector Report and suggested that this item be reviewed by the Commission and will be considered at the July 15 meeting. No action required. F. Bryant Lake Park Acquisition Status lessen reported that the Federal LAWCON Grant share for the Bryant Lake Park project had been received--the check was in the amount of $533,000 with an additional $9,000 yet to be received for relocation assistance. The Holasek contract for deed payments have been met and the City now owns approximately 100 acres at Bryant Lake previously owned by Alvin and Ward Holasek. According to the agreements with the Holaseks , the City takes possession of all of the land on May 1 , 1975. lessen indicated that research is presently underway to develop a management program for the equestrian center and that specific recommen- dations would be made to the Commission during the budget development process for 1975. No action required. G. Anderson Lakes Park lessen reported that the City Council approved the Blacklock Nature Center at Anderson Lakes name at their June 25 meeting and he dis- tributed a letter from Les and Fran Blacklock thanking the Commission for this consideration. C MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISION MONDAY, JULY 8, 1974 PAGE 10 III. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS (continued) G. (continued) lessen also reported that the Metropolitan Parks and Open Space Commission has adopted a recommendation to go to the Metropolitan Council to fund the acquisition of all of the vacant land parcels at Anderson Lakes, which would include everything but the 7 homes and 9 lots in the Timber Trail area. No r action required. H. 1975 LAWCON Application Recommendation lessen suggested that in light of the Commission's action earlier this evening on the Lake Riley Report and recommendations that the 1975 LAWCON and State and Natural Resource Application be filed for the following projects: Staring Lake Park--approximately 61. 18 acres, estimated cost $405,000; Lake Riley Park--approximately 160.86 acres, estimated cost $892,500. It was moved Garens, seconded Erickson that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend the 1975 LAWCON and State and Natural Resource applications include the parcels as recommended by the staff at Staring Lake Park and Lake Riley Park. Motion carried unanimously. I. Snowmobile Trail Plan 1974-75 Season. lessen reported that he had met several times with snowmobile repre- sentatives from the community and certain land owners involved along the proposed trail for 1973-74 . Representatives of the Snowmobile Clubs have expressed interest in accomplishing the plan this year. They have asked the City to participate by filing a grant application for this purpose. lessen stated that all of the local share cost would come from the Snowmobile Clubs, either through service or cash contributions, etc. The alignment is approximately the same as it was suggested in 1973 and 1974. It was moved Anderson, seconded Erickson that the Park and Recreation Commission recommend the 1974-75 Snowmobile Trail Plan to the City Council and proceed to file a grant application for snowmobile trail funds under the program administered by the State Department of Natural Resources. Motion carried unanimously. MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION MONDAY, JULY 8, 1974 PAGE 11 IV. DISCUSSIONS A. Neighborhood Facilities Study lessen distributed copies of the report and suggested that this item be included on the Agenda for Monday, July 15 , 1974. No action required. B. Mini-Bikes Helmer said that he recently noticed that much mini-bike activity and suggested that they were far worse than snowmobiles in terms of damaging the landscape etc. He wanted to know if anything had been done by the City in this respect. Erickson stated that the Park and Recreation Commission had considered this item approximately a year ago and decided not to become involved in planning , and implementing mini-bike trail plan,in that they really didn't feel it was an appropriate municipal recreation responsibility, particularly in light of the fact that many of the users were not licensed for motor vehicle operators; there is a great deal of liability implied in this sort of effort. No action required. V. ADJOURNMENT It was moved Garens, seconded Anderson that the meeting be adjourned. Motion carried unanimously. AGENDA C EDEN PRAIRIE PARK & RECREATION COMMISSION MONDAY, JULY 15 , 1974 7:3 0 PM COMMISSION MEMBERS: Marvin Erickson, Richard Anderson, Jan Berkland, William Bye, Paul Enblom, William Garens, Francis Helmer, Wolfgang Penzel COMMISSION STAFF: Marty Jessen, Director of Community Services ROLL CALL I. MINUTES OF JUNE 8, 1974 MEETING II. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS A. Neighborhood Facilities Study B. Smentana Lake Sector Study C. Shelter Corp. -- Eden Farms rezoning consideration D. Consideration of additional programs for older teens. C r f MINUTES FOR THE PARK AND RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING July 29, 1974, 7:30 PM Members present: Marvin Erickson, Chairman Richard Anderson Francis Helmer Paul Choiniere Wolfgang Penzel Jan Berkland Steve Fifield - Ex Officio Staff members present: Marty Jessen, Community Services Director Chris Engers, Park Planner Citizens attending the meeting were Mike Scherer, Tim Pierce and Bruce Brill. The meeting was called to order by Chairman Mary Erickson at 7:30 PM with the only item on the agenda being review of the neighbor- hood facility study. Mr. Jessen addressed the Commission with some comments regarding his discussions with Bill Walters of Shelter Corporation. Mr. Jessen said that the asking price for the 12 additional acres in Eden Farms would be $55,000. At this point Jessen entertained comments about the entire Neighborhood Facilities Choiniere - Suggests that the city study purchasing all the acres Study. north of Purgatory Creek in Eden Farms proposal which would amount to 5 to 6 to 10 additional acres beyond the 12 proposed by the staff. He also questioned whether the PUD approval for the shelter proposal was being used as a leverage tool for bargaining in land acquisition. Penzel - Although it has not been the clearly delineated policy in effect, yes this has been used as a tool for bargaining. essen - Mr. Jessen explained the procedure being used in acquisition of the Eden Farms plus or minus 12 acres. Penzel - Mr. Penzel explained that the Park and Recreation Commission only recommends alternatives to the Council. The Council has to make the final choice on methods of how to acquire land. Choiniere - Mr. Choiniere wanted a firm, price from Eden Farms in writing. Do not play games which will not hold up legally. Anderson - We have been severely criticized by people in the community for paying prices for land based on estimated value. When we try to ( bargain for best possible prices we come under criticism again. How can we `�- win? We had directed Marty to find asking price of the land. This is what he did under the direction of the Park and Recreation Commission. - 2 - Penzel - Mr. Penzel explained that it required positive action by the Council to rescind the planned unit development approval and rezoning for a portion of the total acreage of the planned unit development and that we didn't have to give anything back as far as PUD approval was concerned . Helmer - Marty, I came up with 1.5 million dollars in neighborhood facilities study - is this right? essen - Actually it is 1.8 million dollars. Helmer - Would this be a bond issue? essen - Monies will have to be obtained through some method. Either through earmarked general funds, a mill levy, liquor store fees (which only amount to $22 ,000 for three licenses). We have only sold one at $7,500 and I wouldn't suggest a municipal liquor store at this time. The only alternative seems to be a bond issue. Helmer - What was the budget last year? essen - Operating costs in total were around $60,000 to $70,000. There was an additional $34,000 budgeted for the park maintenance. C_ Helmer - How much in fees? essen - About $25 ,000 in fees which brought total operating costs to around $80,000 to $90,000 altogether. Erickson - Would major parks be part of this bond issue ? essen - Yes, at Round Lake and possibly some land acquisition at Lake Riley and the Minnesota River Bluffs. Erickson - I believe the thing to do is to put all the parks together, not just concentrate on neighborhood facilities. If just neighborhood facilities specifically are bonded for too many people have specific ideas and their minds will be polorized one way or the other. essen - Special interest groups are sometimes a problem when the Park and Recreation Commission is trying to develop a plan for the overall good of the community. Anderson - There is a need for neighborhood facilities and this should be of a number one priority. When would be a good time for a park bond Cissue? r - 3 - essen - A referendum will be possible at any time from November through January, but the best time for a referendum would not occur at the same time as the General Election. Choiniere - Do all the parks have to be developed through a bond issue or can there be other methods for financing some of the parks? essen - Mr. Jessen explained that some of the City's activities such as Public Safety, Public Works, do not have the opportunity for bonding. This requires that they take monies out of the general fund which does not leave enough money for park development. It is for this reason that he recommends a bond issue. The probability for financing of neighborhood facilities through grants is near nil at this time. The reason for this is that neighborhood facilities is a local issue for the citizens of Eden Prairie . The neighborhood facilities provide a balance of service for the people in the community. Choiniere - Mr. Choiniere was concerned that if the bond issue fails many of the high priority areas may be harmed in not getting funds. lessen - There should be some type of contingency for this -recurring. Bruce Brill - Mr. Brill explained that he thought we should use the land which we have now. Citing an example in the Preserve for the Moorings site of being "ripped off" as he puts it. He explained that ` as population grows and as the need occurs and as we get more people to pay for the parks, then we should acquire parks and develop parks more thoroughly. Mike Scherer - I have got a middle of the road attitude toward this now. I didn't start out with it but I now feel there are areas that need ; facilities now. It seems to me that Marty in this report did a good job of offering a mix and blend to make many people happy. Anderson - As long as I have been on the Commission `people requesting service are in areas where there is no service and I have noticed no people requesting service where there already is service. ; Erickson - What I want to know is what are we going to do with the land we own now. I would have to agree with Bruce Brill in this. Choiniere - It is our responsibility to provide recreation areas for all levels and needs. The report is very good to differentiate between parks and recreation areas. Birch Island Park is a good example of a park that is unused because of poor access. - 4 - Scherer - The neighborhood facility report is good because it looked at everybody's needs. The amount of the bond issue will show a percentage that is used for acquisition with the majority of the money being used for development. Anderson - The important point is that there are differences of opinion of what we need for recreation. The Park and Recreation Commission is trying to do what is right to make as many people happy as possible but it should be recognized that people differ in opinion. Tim Pierce - Marty did an excellent job on the study. lessen - Thank you. I looked at all areas to determine what facilities we had at the present time and to determine what facilities we needed. Bruce Brill - I do, not agree with the concept of neighborhood facilities. I do not believe that we need parks within walking distance of where a child lives. Kids will go a long way to use parks. They will use parks wherever you put them Choiniere & Helmer together - They don't and they won't. Anderson - Mothers in Eden Prairie have expressed an interest for a one mile walking radius. They are not especially interested in tot lots but they are interested in ball fields and the like . Bruce Brill - You are talking about an urban area. This is not an urban are a. Choiniere - I know how you feel but original recommendations years ago were for park acquisition. I think it is great that we had the foresight to buy this land but the taxpayers who have been here have been short- changed. Edenview is one that is not served. Faced with the situation of no ball fields, skating rinks, etc. , it is now time to develop these facilities in the neighborhood. Fees and the people who use the neighborhood parks should also be included in the study. Anderson - What was the village's amount paid for Bryant Lake? essen - Zero. Anderson - We haven't had a lot of money to work with. This type of park is the only kind we can get this federal, state and county money for and that is why we have been doing this acquisition. Mike Scherer - We all pay for it in the end. t - 5 - ` Anderson - Is any out of income tax. essen - No. Mike Scherer - This report satisfies both needs. 1.5 million dollar bond issue should not scare us. Steve Fifield - Our area has a pond for hockey. The Methodist Church has a field which we move for baseball. How many other neighborhoods have this as a case. We are lucky. Round Lake is the closest park and it is one mile away. Try to ride a bike with bat, balls and glove on a busy road with gravel on one side , it is impossible. Erickson - How are we going to develop it? Penzel - On a per capita basis. What would a 1.5 million dollar bond issue over 20 years work out per year? essen - $176.00 over 20 years. $9. 00 per year per person. New construction will be about 30 to 40 million dollars this year. This $176.00 per year per person is based on the premise there will be no growth in Eden Prairie which will not be the case. Anderson - Bike trails should be studied to be included in this bond i issue. Helmer - Has the County been contacted about widening of County Road 4 for bike travel? essen - They have been and separate right-of-way is a much better solution. Penzel - The widening of a road and merely striping of bike lanes tends to lull bicylists into a false sense of security, thereby increasing danger by encouraging bike travel without a physical separation. Anderson - Shady Oak Road in Hopkins has a wide road that is merely striped and kids use it extensively. essen_- I have only seen this condition a couple of times but the times that I have seen it, it is being used by a maintenance vehicle, a Volkswagen or a Toyota. Penzel - Marty , could you get experience from Hopkins and Minnetonka �, on this bike trail. - 6 - Erickson - On the Eden Farms proposal on July 8 at the Park and Recreation Commission the motion was made to direct the staff to offer $40, 000 for the parcel of land. This the staff did under the direction of the Park and Recreation Commission using the PUD approval as a bargaining tool. Choiniere - I think that the land all the way up to Townline Road in the Eden Farms proposal should be studied as an alternative. essen - Do you want us to offer alternatives "A" and "B" ? Choiniere - Yes, but I believe the bartering point should be, for this four or five acres, that the townhouses that would be developed here if we didn't buy it would be land locked and cut off from sewer. Penzel - You are proposing a relatively complete park system (to Marty). Why don't you come back to us with a bare bones proposal. Tim Pierce - Just so we have money to put things in over a number of years. Penzel - Why not wait and see if interest rates go down on bonds. Anderson - Let's go after a first class park and the other people can see what they are paying for and we can phase the parks in this way. Penzel - In a bond issue you should offer a little bit to everyone if it has hope of passing. It does seem to me that there is a clear break in the priorities listed in the neighborhood facility after number 4. essen - We will get a phasing schedule to you. Helmer - The Sterling Field's approach is enough. We don't need any more than a ball field, one tennis court, and a skating rink in the Edenvale area. Lessen - The phasing question is important because in five years the population is projected to double. The facilities are not quite enough. Choiniere - In asking people about parks they say, give us land and we will build the ball fields. - 7 - Berkland - The payments must be phased, the system must be phased, let people know exactly what it would cost them. Scherer - We should add maintenance budgeted also to the bond issue. Also program arts and crafts too. lessen - This is a program issue. Bruce Brill - Figure out the least and the most expensive approach and present it to us. Anderson - What about soccer fields? Fifield - We had soccer proposed by the city two years ago and there were not enough registrations. Choiniere-- Mr. Choiniere moved that the Commission direct Marty to consider both Eden Farm areas, the additional five or six areas to the north being one of them, and find out from Shelter and form a letter what the cost of the additional acreage would be. i:i G Anderson - Question on the motion. Berkland - Second. (MOTION CARRIES) essen - Any more questions on the study I would like to know tonight. Choiniere - We could increase revenues in our parks by reducing rates and increasing use. Erickson - Now is not the time to talk about that. essen - I believe that Mr. Choiniere has a very important point and budget time is the time to talk about fees. Choiniere - How are our tennis courts used? Are fees being charged which would be applicable to the study? Erickson - Rules have been set on present facilities, not future facilities. Erickson warned Mr. Choiniere not to get off on a tangent. At this time we are not able to change for this year, do not get off on a tangent. Choiniere - Should we have as a part of this study who would be able to use the neighborhood facilities? r - 8 - i essen - Current facilities are available to all resident's of Eden Prairie. The problem with other communities usage is mostly in the major parks. The question of community park usage is a good discussion, but didn't seem to feel that neighborhood parks would have a problem with other communities using them. Anderson - Moved that Marty come back by the next meeting if possible or in August with a phasing program for park acquisition and development for neighborhood facilities listing all types of alternatives. Berkland - Seconded the motion. MOTION CARRIES. The discussion on neighborhood facilities being completed, Mr, lessen asked what the policy for park behavior should be. Mr. lessen brought this up because there had been a recerxt problem with the softball player punching out an umpire. Mr. lessen asked if the policy should be to kick a person out of any recreational activity for one year if physical violence toward an umpire was evident. Erickson - Yes, kick him out. Anderson - In Bloomington they are kicked out for one year for any profanity or violence. Bruce Brill - Commenting on Kasid's bad behavior brought up the point that this was not the-first such incident for the man. Erickson - Moved that it be a policy communicated to City umpires by Mr. lessen that if anybody within the use of athletic facilities in Eden Prairie exhibited any physicial violence toward an official that individual would be banned for one calendar year from any recreational activity. Choiniere - What about abusive language? Penzel - The motion should be amended to say "Any individual about whom a complaint is made for abusive language would be cause for the umpire to kick them out of the game. " lessen - Umpires are intimidated by some players. Anderson - Instruct umpires that the people of Eden Prairie will not stand for abusive language and that the players will be kicked out for one game. (this is the second part of the motion). Penzel - Agreed onssecond amendment. MOTION CARRIES. Erickson: Moved to adjourn . (Seconded by Anderson, Motion carried). MEETING ADJOURNED 10:07 P.M. , July 29, 1974.