Parks and Recreation - 03/18/1974 i
1974
MARCH 4 !, 18
MINUTES
CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE
MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARK & RECREATION COMMISSION
MONDAY, MARCH 4, 1974 7:30 p.m. , City Hall
MEMBERS PRESENT: Vice Chairman Bill Garens Jan Berkland, Dick Bren, Jr. ,
Dick Anderson, Francis Helmer.
s
MEMBERS ABSENT: Marvin Erickson, Wolfgang Penzel, Paul Enblom„ William
Bye, Steve Eisch.
STAFF PRESENT: Marty Jessen, Director of Community Services
Joe Sullivan, Student Intern. i
s
OTHERS PRESENT: The following people from the Edenview area of Eden
Prairie were in attendance at the meeting: Jim Cardinal,
15701 W. 62nd St.; Harold W. Trocke, 15801 W. 62nd St.;
Gale and Garnet Clark, 15901 W. 62nd St.; Dr. Richard
Axel, 15501 S. Eden Drive; David Schmillen, 15608 N.
Eden Drive; James Griffin, 15611 'N. Eden Drive; Paul
a
Choiniere, 15819 N. Eden Drive; Arnold Rohe, 15903 N.
Eden Drive.
The meeting was called to order at 7:40 p.m. by Vice Chairman Garens.
Garens suggested the possibility of recommending to the Council the student
4 members of the Park& Recreation Commission not be counted for the sake of a
quorum. No action was taken on this suggestion.
I. MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 18, 1974, MEETING:
Anderson suggested that an addition be made to the minutes to include statements
made at the last meaLing about the other components of the park system, and that
this insert should occur-'at the bottom of page 4 of the minutes of the February 18,
1974, meeting. Jessen was directed to include the following statement in the
minutes as presented: "Another major component of the City's open space system
is linear parks and open spaces along the creek corridors: The Purgatory Creek .I
system will be the primary one in the City, with secondary linear systems along
Nine Mile and Riley Creeks."
M/Anderson, S/Bren to approve the minutes of the February 18, 1974, meeting
as corrected. Motion carried unanimously. s"
II. COMMUNICATIONS:
A. Letter from Art Lee, .Hennepin County Director of Public Works, concerning r.
the request for interim use of the Crosstown right of way for playground
Pq rposes.
Jessen read the letter from Mr. Lee so that those in the audience would have the
Cbenefit of the County's response.
Helmer stated that it was his feeling that there is a great need for a neighborhood
playground in this part of the community and that it did not have to be too big or
• 1
Park & Recreation Commission -2- March 4, 1974
I
Minute s
too fancy, but merely a short-term place for the young people in the
community to play until permanent facilities could be developed. Garens
Csuggested that we also contact the Minnetonka people about getting involved
in planning and development of a facility in this area, as they would also
utilize such a facility. Bren asked what kinds of facilities were envisioned
for this area, how elaborate would the development be (would it include ball
fields, play apparatus, skating rinks, etc.), and was there any idea at this
point as to what age limits would use such a facility.
Paul Choiniere, resident of the area, thanked the Commission for recognizing i
the need for facilities. He suggested there was a need for facilities for all
groups, from very young children on up through adults. There are over 200
homes in the Edenview/Nottingham Forest area and a number of citizens of the
community are not having their leisure needs served. Mr. Choiniere suggested
that a "feasibility study" be conducted to determine whether or not the interim
development was most appropriate or whether a permanent solution ought to be
sought on the Shelter Corporation's Eden Farms site. 1
Garens suggested that Helmer conduct the study and hold neighborhood meetings
to determine whether an interim solution on the Crosstown right of way, or a
permanent solution on the Shelter Corporation's property was most desirable.
This study will also include contacting Minnetonka residents to see if they want
to participate in the planning and construction of such a facility. Additional
discussion took place concerning the desirability of well constructed facilities
as opposed to just grading an area for field game space, etc. Also discussed
was the possibility of financing any development in this area, and Anderson
asked the ctizBns at the meeting their .feelings about financing park and recreation
development through liquor store license proceeds. He further asked if 'Eden
Prairie residents would buy at the municipal off-sale store if they knew that the .
liquor sale proceeds would be used for community development. Th6 citizens I
indicated a favorable response but no firm comments were made. 4
A final question Aa s asked by Mr. Choiniere when he asked the Commission if it
was their intention to denote their time to meeting the needs for neighborhood
facilities as opposed to continuing effort on long range needs in the community.
Anderson, Bren, and Garens all responded to the question and indicated that it 5:
was the Commission's intention to work for both long range goals and immediate
service demands.
Garens appointed Helmer to head up the study of the provision of neighborhood
playground services to this area of Eden Prairie.
III. RECOMMENDATIONS AND REPORTS:
A. Recreation Survey Report.
Joe Sullivan, Student Intern, reported that over 200 questionnaires had been
returned so far, which is about 14% of the total sent out ,after one week from the
date of mailing. Sullivan briefly summarized the survey findings to date, and.
indicated that there were a few negative comments about the program but most
had been constructuve suggestions for improvement of service. A detailed report
will be available at the next Commission meeting. No action required.
Park & Recreation Commission -3- March 4, 1974
Minutes
A short discussion concerning the kinds of facilities being provided by the
homeowner's associations in the community took place. The sentiment was
expressed that the homeowner's associations will have a very strong and
perhaps negative influence on the City's planning for community-wide
recreational facilities in that the residents of areas having homeowner's
associations will have facilities available to them and will not look favorably
upon a bond issue to construct community-wide facilities. Thus, some of the
residents in the community will not have the same leisure opportunities
available to them as others. Nothing was adopted by the Commission except
that many of them voiced a concern in this area and suggested that it be an
item of discussion at a later meeting. F
B. Recommendation for Recreation Program Supervision.
Jessen reviewed the memo sent to the Commission concerning this item and
indicated that the amount of recreation program activity in the community had
expanded substantially in the last four years and at the same time, the effort
necessary to accomplish long-range community goals had also increased. He
suggested that this was an effort to meet the short-term objectives and also
make available increased time to work toward long-range implementation 'programs.
Garens said that he favored this proposal and that Chairman Erickson had also
expressed strong support for this idea. Bren stated that he felt the park and
recreation program in the City ought to do more for the Eden Prairie Athletic
/ Association programs but that he did not feel there was a need for two full
' l time people to work in recreation programming in the community. Garens
responded by saying that the program is getting to be a big operation and that
there is a need to spend time on the details in implementing a successful
recreation and leisure service program, and-that it is his feeling that hiring
part-time help is not in the best interest of the community in that it provides no
continuity from one program to the next. He also stated that if a Recreation
Program Supervisor is not hired, the City will have to make the choice between
long-range goals and short-term objectives whereas by hiring an additional
staff person, emphasis may be placed on both areas. Anderson reiterated what
Garens said, and stated that the rapid growth which is now starting in the .
community requires people to provide service to residents. He stated that it
is his feeling that much of Jessen's time is spent in administration and thus
there is a need for help in recreation program development and supervision.
Berkland said that she didn't think we should question the priority of this past
time allocation and that administration and long-term goals were extremely
important in the community's development, but that we needed to do*additional
work in recreation program supervision because these are the most frequent
criticisms of the program that she has heard.
Garens reiterated his earlier statements about the need for full-time help and
agreed with Berkland that the recreation programs have not completely satisfied
C the citizens of the community because of our priority on long-range goals. He
stated he felt we should provide better service for the residents of the community
today. Helmer agreed with this statement. Sullivan talked briefly about the
amount of time he spent in the last ten weeks in detailed program supervision,
a
Park & Recreation Commission -4- March 4, 1974
Minutes
including the registration of participants and making sure that the arrangements
necessary to carry out the program are accomplished. Further, Sullivan stated
that if good program planning was to take place, including such things as the
survey presently underway, the need for additional staff was absolutely
necessary. j
' 1
F
Anderson stated that it is his feeling that if we want to provide good service to
today's residents, we must add a Recreation Program Supervisor. If we want to
struggle along with less than good service, he said he felt that we would have
to at the least hire a part-time Program Supervisor to work in the summer.
M/Anderson, S/Bren that the Park & Recreation Commission recommends to the
City Council that this report be adopted and that a Recreation Program Supervisor
be employed by the City. Motion carried unanimously.
C. Recommendation for Commission Organization.
This item was tabled until the next meeting.
D. Neill Lake/Eden Lake Storm Sewer Report.
This item was deleted from the agenda.
E. Homeward Hills Ski Hill/Golf Course.Report.
lessen stated that he had talked further with Wally Hustad and Bill Bonner from
Hustad Development Corporation and that they were very interested in proceeding
` with the development of the ski hill this summer in conjunction with BFI.
Presently we are awaiting information from the Metropolitan Airports Commission
on the study they have done on the future of Flying Cloud Field and when this
report is done, some estimate of the height to which this hill might be built
and other factors surrounding its impact on the airport will be known and a
final recommendation can come forth to the Commission. No action required.
. . a
F. Golf Course Study Report. u
lessen reported briefly on the work he's done to date in analyzing the offer
from Olympic Hills Golf Club for municipal purchase. He stated that there are
now six golf course proposals in the community: the Olympic Hills proposal;
Edenvale proposal; the Northwest Eden Prairie Golf Course, which was studied r
by Brauer & Associates; the Major Center Area Golf Course proposal; the
Homeward Hills Golf Course/Ski Hill proposal; and Cedar Hills, which has
always been included in the City's Comprehensive Guide Plan.
a
lessen suggested that the Olympic Hills information would be completed in
three or four weeks and that at that time, a task force or some such mechanism
ought to be formed to study all of the golf course proposals to make recommen-
dations to the City as to a course of action. No action required.
C 1. DISCUSSIONS. j
A. Ordinance No. 135 "Set-Back Requirements".
This item was tabled until the next meeting.
V. ADJOURNMENT.
M/Berkland, S/Helmer that the meeting be adjourned. Motion carried unanimously.
MINUTES
/ EDEN PRAIRIE PARK & RECREATION COMMISSION
f MONDAY, MARCH 18, 1974 7:30 p.m. , City Hall
C MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Marvin Erickson, Bill Garens, Jan Berkland,
Wolf Penzel, William Bye, Francis Helmer, Richard
Anderson
MEMBESS ABSENT: Paul Enblom, Richard Bren, Jr. , Steve Eisch
STAFF PRESENT: Marty lessen, Director of Community Services
Chris Enger, Landscape Architect
OTHERS PRESENT: Pat Kruell and Mary Hayden from Eden Prairie League of
Women Voters.
The meeting was called to order at 7:40 p.m. by Chairman Marvin Erickson.
i
I. MINUTES OF MARCH 4, 1974—MEETING.
M/Berkland, S/Garens to approve the minutes of the March 4, 1974, meeting
as presented. Motion carried unanimously.
II. PETIMONS_L_REQUESTS & COMMUNICATIONS.
A. _Letter from United States Department of Interior, Fish and Wildlife Service,
concerning Lower Minnesota River Preservation Program.
�- lessen reviewed the letter, copies of which had been distributed to the
Commissioners. He stated that it appeared to him that the Department of Interior
was going to take a negative position on this proposal inasmuch as the letter
pointed out other areas around the state which provide the same basic service.
No action required.
B. Notice of Meeting.
On Thursday, March 21, 1974, at 7:00 p.m. at the City Hall, "Report on Study p
of Future of Flying Cloud Airport by MAC." lessen reported that the City Council
has set this time for a public informational meeting at which time the representatives
of MAC will present the findings of their study on the future of the airport and will
report recommendations as to expansion to a jetport, etc. All the Park & Recreation
Commissioners are invited to attend inasmuch as the future of the airport will have
a substantial impact on the development of the City, particularly existing and pro-
posed open space areas around the airport. No action required.
C. Receipt of Final Draft of Riley-Purgatory Creek Watershed District Overall
Plan.
lessen stated that the City has received copies of this plan and had a few
additional copies available if anyone wished to check them out and review the
report in detail. No action required.
C .
Park & Recreation Commission -2- March 18, 1974
Minutes
III. RECOMMENDATIONS & REPORTS:
A. 1974 Leisure Activity Survey, Final Report.
Jessen reviewed the tabulation of the results of the survey as prepared by
Student Intern Joe Sullivan and stated that at the next Commission meeting,
recommendations will have been developed by the staff based on the results
of the survey. No action required.
B. Recommendation for Commission Organization.
Jessen explained his recommendation for organizing the Commission into four
sub-committees in the areas of Operations, Planning and Development, Natural
Resources: and Environmental Concerns, and Finance and Legislation. He
indicated it is his feeling that this proposal would provide for more involvement
by Commissioners in areas in which they have special interests.
s
Erickson asked if the organization of sub-committees would eliminate the need
for two full Commission meetings per month , and if not, when would the
sub-committees meet. A lengthy discussion followed concerning this. matter.
Penzel suggested that because of the development pressures presently existing
within the City that limiting the full Commission to one meeting
delaythe per month would
process necessary for adequate review of proposals and suggested that
the sub-committees would meet in excess of the two meetings per month, as is
presently the case.
Garens asked if recommendations from the sub-committees would go to the full
Commission or the City Council, etc. , and lessen responded by saying that it
was his intention that all sub-committee reports and recommendations would go
to the full Commission for final action and that only the full Commission would
make recommendations to Planning Commission, City Council, or other groups
or agencies. Bye stated that it was his feeling that the sub-committee's purpose
would be to study, report, and recommend to the full Commission, and that in
light of this the sub-committees ought to have the flexibility to set their own
rules for meeting, including meeting times, quorums necessary, etc.
M/Garens, S/Helmer to approve the recommendation of the staff and form four
sub-committees to deal with Commission business. The members of the `
Commission are to volunteer to the Chairman as to the sub-committee they wish
to serve on. The Chairman will appoint the sub-committees, and the sub-
committees will in turn set their own rules and regulations for dealing with the n'
areas that they have responsibility in; they will set meeting times; elect their '
own chairman; etc. and report to the full Commission. Motion carried i
unanimously.
C. Recommendation on Hidden Ponds Phase II.
jessen reviewed the Staff Report, copies of which were sent to the Commissioners, F
and specifically the eight recommendation for the development proposal. He also
pointed out the staff's concern for the impact of development of the wooded knoll
in the center of the proposal and indicated that there was a study underway by
Park & Recreation Commission -3- March 18, 1974
Minutes
other staff members as to the environmental impact that this proposal would
have on that parcel. The developer is proposing to cut and fill in that area in
order to develop and the staff fears that this will result in elimination of many
of the trees on the site, although the developer says the trees will be protected.
Bye suggested that a bond be placed by the developer to "insure the life of the
trees" . Penzel asked about the financing of the $100,000 investment for the
acquisition of the neighborhood playground site identified. Jessen replied that
this could be accomplished through the City's budget mechanisms and that no
doubt there would be interest costs involved in this which would be included in
the actual cost of acquiring the site.
M/Garens, S/Berkland that the Park & Recreation Commission recommend to the
Planning Commission and the Council the eight recommendations included in the '
Staff Report and add a ninth recommendation: "that the developer be required to
place a bond to 'insure the life of the trees' on the knoll in the central portion
of the development." Motion carried unanimously.
M/Bye, S/Garens that the Park & Recreation Commission recommend to the
Planning Commission and the Council that the appropriate ordinances, rules,
and regulations of the City be amended to include a provision to insure the life
of trees in other development proposals as they are brought before the City.
Motion carried unanimously.
D. Bluffs Open Space Report.
Jessen reviewed the Staff Report, copies of which were sent to the Commission
prior to the meeting. He recommended that no action be taken on this item at
this time until further study can be done and recommendations prepared by the
staff as to a clear course of action and method of implementation. Included in
these recommendations will be information from the Lower Minnesota River
Watershed District as to the desirability to levy their one mill for overall
District improvements; information about the State Historical Society, the
National Historical Register, and the Minnesota Valley Restoration Project.
Anderson commended the staff on the quality of the Staff Report and stated that
he felt this was an extremely thorough analysis of the river situation. No action
i`
required.
E. Report on Spring uarter Intern Program.
Jessen reviewed the Staff Report on this item and indicated that both of the student
interns would be available at the next Commission meeting so the Commissioners
would have an opportunity to meet them. Erickson suggested that details of their
work program assignments be made available to the Commission. No action required.
F. Report on Lions Club Picnic Pavilion.
Enger reported that he and Jessen had met with representatives of the Lions Club
Cconcerning their desire to construct a picnic pavilion at Round Lake Park. The
Park & Recreation Commission -4- March 18, 1974
Minute s
staff has done some further analysis of the location of this facility and suggest
that because of the relationship between the beach, softball, and tennis-facilities
that it be located south of the existing tennis courts. This will enable the building
to be used as much of the year as possible by as many people as possible. A
tentative program for the facility would call for a 60'x3O' hard surface slab with f
building overhead. Future development within the building would include
concession stand, storage facilities, change facilities for the beach, etc. The
staff suggests that it be a permanent structure with footings so that the future E
development can take place. This building will become a focal point for the park
and it will be constructed of high quality materials in an attempt to create a good•
image for the entire pak area. The preliminary cost estimates for the building are
somewhere in the range of $10-12 ,000. The Lions Club has $7,000 available over
a three year period to participate. The City will have to find some other method
to finance the remainder of the construction costs for the first stage shell.
Garens asked about the earlier plan to locate a picnic pavilion at the south end
` of the lake. Enger responded that the pavilion proposed for the Lions Club would
be for group picnics, including Schooner Days and other functions of that nature,
and would be located in an intensely used area of the park. It is still the staff
recommendation that a smaller building be constructed south of the beach and
lake so that it would be available for smaller scale family picnics. There is a
possibility that this building might be multi-purpose also in that it could have
removable wall panels and could be used for a warming house in the winter..
lessen said he hoped the Commission would give the staff some direction as to
whether or not to proceed to get detailed cost estimates on the construction of
this building, and whether or not the City would be interested in financing the j
remainder of the cost in excess of $7,000. Penzel suggested that perhaps the
Jaycees or other civic organization could be contacted for contributions. Bye
suggested that inasmuch as this facility would be of City-wide benefit and would
help to serve as a focal point for the entire City which would help eliminate some a
of the fragmentation caused by the pockets of development in the City,that it
would be desirable to contact developers to put in money to make up the difference, ;+
inasmuch as it would be of benefit to them in the sales of land and homes which
they are constructing in the community. a
Helmer asked if the Lions had any specific suggestions as to what they wanted
F
to participate in construction of at the park. lessen stated that the Lions' only
requirement was for a hard surfaced area of approximately 6O'x3O' to be used as
one of the center points in the Schooner Days civic celebration. Erickson stated
that he felt any City money ought to be spent for recreation program needs rather
than for the construction of a picnic pavilion. However, he did see some: advan-
tage in the pavilion by providing increased recreational opportunity.
M/Garens, S/Bye that the Park & Recreation Commission agrees with the concept
for the building and placement, and that the staff be directed to contact other
organizations, developers, etc. in an attempt to solicit the additional money
necessary for the project.:Ftior to contacting others, the staff is to develop
dotailed:cost estimates for the project. Motion carried unanimously.
Park & Recreation Commission -5- March 18, 1974
Minutes
G. Crosstown Playground Report. !
C Helmer reported that he and his neighbors have talked to all of the Eden Prairie
residents and Minnetonka residents along the area presently held by the County.
for Crosstown Extension, and generally they are favorable to the development of
the small neighborhood playground in that location, including ball fields and
swing sets. No action required.
IV. DISCUSSIONS. +
A. Ordinance No. 135. Set-back Requirements. {
Enger reviewed the present ordinance requirements and stated that the problem
with the ordinance is that it allows low flexibility for movement of buildings <<
on a particular building site in an attempt to preserve significant trees, other
vegetation,etc. Berkland asked how the next-door neighbor would be protected
if there were no set-back requirements. If someone wanted to build a building
on the property line adjacent to an existing house, they would be able to do so
if there were no set-back requirements. Penzel stated that there was a fear on
the part of the Council that elimination of set-back requirements would lead
to subjective judgments somewhere in the building process, that this would not P
be desirable. Anderson stated that there was an advantage to having flexibility
in that environmental concerns could be better met, presuming that the person
who is making the judgment is properly qualified to do so.
Garens stated that he felt an ordinance sets standards and goals for develop-
ment, and that variances should be granted only if they-are unable to meet the
standards and also provide the best possible solution for final design.
Penzel stated that one of the problems is that developers sell lots, and the
buyer has a building type in mind, and often the building type doesn't entirely
fit the site, presuming they have to adhere to all of the setbacks and other con-
straints on the final building. Additionally, with the high cost of land in Eden
Prairie, small lots are necessary if we are going to provide any range of housing
at all for people in the moderate income brackets.
Bye suggested that the present ordinance set-backs be adhered to and that
variance procedure be one where specifics would be required before any variances >
would be granted, and that no blanket variances be granted without good supportive. ..
criteria inasmuch as all variances ought to stand the test on their own rather
than as an overall blanket variance for a development proposal. Anderson stated j
r �
that inasmuch as the City staff members are experts in their field, they should'"
be able to analyze the criteria brought forward by developers and make recom-
mendations to the appropriate Commissions or Council as to the correct decision
for a particular variance request.
M/Garens, S/Berkland that the Park & Recreation Commission recommend to the
Council and Planning Commission that we keep the existing set-back requirements
rather than the lower set-back requirements suggested by the Building Department
and, further, that variances be granted only on specific sites based on specific
criteria presented by the developer and properly analyzed by the staff. Motion
carried unanimously.
Park & Recreation Commission -6- March 18, 1974
Minutes
B. P.U.D. Concept and Rezoning.
Garens asked what happens if developers don't go ahead with proposals that
are brought before the City and approved by the Council: does the zoning stay
with the land, can it be sold to another developer, or is the zoning washed out
after a certain time period? .
Jessen stated that most of the P.U.D. Concept Plans which are brought in now
have a time limit ascribed to them and if the developer doesn't go ahead within
that time period, the P.U.D. approval is nullified. Penzel stated that if the ;
property is rezoned, the zoning stays with the land and can only be changed if
the Council goes back to rezone the property back to Rural or some other classifi-
cation. If a new developer is found for the property and he wishes to change i
from the earlier plans approved by the City, he must come back before the City
for approval of his new plan and in that case, only the zoning stays with the land
and all other considerations are null and void, and the developer and City both
start from ground zero. No action required.
i
• f
C. Request for Junior and Senior Citizen Golf Rates at Edenvale Golf Club.
Anderson indicated that he had been contacted by some high school students in
his neighborhood about requesting Edenvale to establish a junior rate for off-hours .
of the golf course. The Commission generally felt this was an excellent idea and
suggested that senior citizens also be added to this reduced rate.
C M/Anderson, S/Erickson that Jessen be directed to contact the Edenvale Golf
Club and request on behalf of the Park & Recreation Commission that they
establish a policy of reduced rates 'for juniors (18 and under) and senior citizens
(60 and over) during the week at times when the golf course is not fully utilized.
Motion carried unanimously.
D. Sign Ordinance.
Bye suggested that there was one advertising sign not covered at all in the
proposed Sign Odinance--the little yellow boxes put up with Minneapolis Star
& Tribune on them. He said he felt this was a very undesirable design for a
paper box,and that there was no reason why they couldn't be painted a decent
color and the sign be taken off the side. The Commission generally agreed with
this recommendation, and suggested that discussion of the Sign Ordinance be
placed on the next Comrniission agenda.
V. ADJOURNMENT.
M/Garens, S/Berkland that the meeting be adjourned. Motion carried unanimously.
i