Parks and Recreation - 10/30/1967 1967
OCTOBER 30
MINUTES
CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE
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EDEN PRAIRIE PARK AND RECREATION CmaSSION MELTING
Special Meeting. October 30, 1967 8:00 p.m. Village Hall
Present: Les Wise. Chairman. Chuck Brace, Dave Osterholt, Harry
Picha. Frances Blacklock
Guests: Fred H. Miller, Kenneth E. Anderson, Ken J.
Anderson. A.W. Miller. Rey Welter. Jr.
Don Brauer, Bryce Platoon of Brauer and Associates
The meeting was called to order bV the Chairman.
The minutes of the last meeting were referred to the chairman for
review.
Brauer on Ord. If the Village has a plan, a reasonable amount of property can be
93 required for park purposes from developers.
Brauer has prepared an Addenda to "Planning Report 14A. Camunission
members will be sent copies.
Brauer answered questions related to Ordinance 93 from. guests and
Commission members. Many of his viewpoints were expressed at the
Oct. 9 meeting and are recorded in the minutes or the attached notes.
Brauer on proce- He advised the Commission to establish an Interim Perk Plan to use
dure as a basis for park dedication of land.
He suggests that the Commission draw up Recreation goals for the
Village and Brauer will incorporate them into his park plan.
In determining goals consider availability, and feasible costs (cost
of park land goes up faster than assessed value).
Plan for Village will be reviewed by Metro Council. If the Village
applies for Federal funds for any purpose, the plan will have to have
the approval of the Metro Council. It does have veto power if
applying for Federal funds. Brauer recommends getting approval,
not just a review.
Brauer suggests getting copies of the original park goals from
Bloomington. Edina and Minnetonka.
Formula ratio guideline is 10 acres of park per 1,000 population
for actively-used parks. Natural parks such as Anderson bakes and
Purgatory Creek would be additional. Minneapolis has well over this
figure.
Minn. Pk. & Rec. Mrs, Frances Blackl.ock was appointed as a delegate to the conference
Conference to be held Nov. 8 and 9 in the Hopkins House.
Acceptance of M/ Osterholt. S/Picha that the Park and Recreation Commission accept
Brauer Reports the following reports for study and recc mendation to the Councils
Interim Plan. Planning Report 14 and the Addenda 14A.
M/Picha. S/Osterholt that the meeting be adjourned.
i" RespectfuU y su�mitted
Frrancea ffiacfclock, Secretary
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Next meetings Monday. Nov. 13, 1967
Note: Notes on the discussion with Don Brauer are attached.
Notes from Don Brauer's discussion at the Oct. 30 Pk. and Rae. Mtg.
Dedication by Developers -- If the village has a plan, a reasonable
{ amount of property can be required for
park purposes. Provisions could be made for the village to buy park
land decided upon and then the developer could give cash. He reiterated
that the village should. have the option of accepting cash or land.
Dedication for Drainage -- Establish flood plain. Owner could dredge pond
as long as same storage area was retained.
If planned unit development should be built on creek area, flood plain
could be used as dedicated area.
Dedication for Parks -- Park dedication entirely the responsibility of
the village -- to decide what is wanted and to
get the dedication. If decide to own creekbeds for parks, the village
should acquire the land. If a man owned more creekbed that what would
amount to 5% of his land, 5% would be credited as his dedication, and
the village would have to buy the rest. Brauerts experience is that
501 is a minimum footage to allow on either side of creek, 100' might
be necessary, especially in some places -- indicate this in ordinance.
It would be understood that creekbed trails would. not be usable in
flood times; roads would have bo be built up. Provision for wider strip
than footage settled upon as a standard, would be an easement when Bevel-
oped.(subdivided) . Easements cannot be built on, lowers value of land..
Q - What if home at top of hill above creek doesn't want horse trail or
people going down creekbed.
A - Public must own land before itts open to public.
Recreational Use of Streams -- Minnehaha Parkway is a uniqu,Xe circle drive.
This may not be what E.P. wants, but Purgkbry
Creek is the only opportunity to develop a stream as a recreational area
through the village, stringing parks together. One-way roads would be
possible -- on bogs, too, without too much cost. At southern end gets
too steep, where trails for hiking, biking and riding would be better.
Conflict between individual and village interests -- If a planner takes
his business seriously
some interests have to be compromised. Is one person's or the villige's
interests more important?
Q - Purgatory is the best unruined land in the village. Wouldn't it be
ruined by a road?
A - Therets no justification for a road now, but someday population pressure
will over-run it, so, if the village wants it someday, plan for it now.
aJhen the village gets much more built up, it will be too late to preserve.
Edina lost Minnehaha Creek, so decided not to let it happen to Nine Mile Creek.
Base for Planning parks -- Max. population - 80,000. 88,000 acmes of
developable land. National ratio is 10 acres
of park per 1,000 Fop. for actively-used parks. Natural parks are in addition.
Anderson Lakes Park would be regional, Purgatory Creek a village responsibility.
Establish Interim Park Plan Na-1, �o can require dedication, to use as a basis
for park dedication. Once flood plains are
established, they become unbuildable and value goes down. Can dedicate some
as park land. On high ground, builder has to dedicate land or money.
Notes from Don Brauer's discussion Oct. 30 contd. Pg. 2
Village must decide where parks are going, otherwise we could end up
with a scattering of parks too small for any use. Have to have enough
solid land to develop a park.
Q. _ Wouldn't 50% of our park lands be dedicated by developers?
A Other villages require 10%.
Q. - How does the village acquire lakeshore?
A _ Negotiate. Itts preferable for the village to own a11, rather
part of a lake. Staring is theund on y lake village could possibl. :
acquire, that has potential.
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Q. _ If buying Staring, would the village buy by the foot?
A. _ The land would have to be appraised, Price will go up.
DETERMINE GOALS N04. Park land goes up faster than assessed value.
How do we arrive at bonding amounts to cover purchase of park land?
A. - Law requires appraisal on overall plan before village can bond.to
cover village parks, with "seed" to buy ahead on some neighborhood
parks.
CQ. _ Isntt there a chance of failing on bond issue and setting us back?
A. - That's one difficulty -- to arrive at proper amount for bond issue.
Q. - When does a park come into effect?
A. _ When it is part of the official map of the village, then there are
restrictions frombuilding on the site. If a builder wanted to develop,
he can demand the village to either buy or shut up. or might develop around
it; or the village could bond to buy it, or could swap for other land.
If not developed, it's not dedicated.
Only residential development is included. in dedicated land, but open space
can be left as set backs around commercial developments.
Basis of dedication is for people. Park land is a dedication Just as the
streets would be.
APPROVAL OF CGIpREHENSIVE PLAN -- Plan for village is reviewed by Metro
Council. If the village applies for
Federal funds for any purpose, it has to be approved. If plan counters
(the plan)
metro plans, it may not get approval.
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Q _ ghat power does Metro Council have?
A. _ Veto power if applying for any Federal fund3. Brauer recommends
getting approval of comprehensive plan.
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jNotes from Don Brauer's discussion Oct. 30, 1967 Page 3
Q. - Are you aware of restrictions under flight pattern on Staring Lake?
A. - This is not an arbitrary rule for certain uses. There can be no
clubhouse, no private organization.
PROCEDURES _ as summarized by Les Wise, chairman
1. Park Commission has to come up with plan.
2. Present it to the Council.
3• Appraisal of property -- could take in stages.
Steps in Planning
Park Commission should draw up Recreation and Park Goals.
Submit to Brauer who will fit goals into village plan.
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Brauer suggests obtaining copies of original goals from
Bloomington, Edina and Minnetonka. He suggests that if we
want walk-to parks, we should have a minimum of 5 acres per park.
Smaller than that are tot-lots in high density areas. In low-
density-laip-lot areas, parks are where ball is played.
What is the cost of park maintenance?
A. - Costs would vary. It costs about $1200 per acre to maintain a golf
course, for instance, or it could cost nothing if the land. is left wild.
Brauer's discussion period was concluded with a brief resume of how
Minneapolis' park system got started.
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