Loading...
Parks and Recreation - 09/18/1995 1995 SEPTEMBER 18 ..Y MINUTES CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE t AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 18, 1995 7:00 P. M. CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS COMMISSION MEMBERS: Claire Hilgeman, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Richard Brown, Don Jacobson, Vicki Koenig, David Kracum, Joanne Kube-Harderwijk STUDENT MEMBER: Mark Bremer, Brian Mustanski COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Facilities; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation Services I. ROLL CALL II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - AUGUST 7 1995 IV. PETPI'IONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. Request from the Trails Association B. Petition from Robert A. Skanse V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS A. None VI. OLD BUSINESS A. Purgatory Creek Recreation Area Revised Entry Plan B. Eden Prairie Transit Hub - Soil Correction Plan VII. NEW BUSINESS A. Miller Park Plan for Skating Rinks and Warming House B. Fee Polices l 6 .'1 Agenda - PRNRC Monday, September 18, 1995 Page 2 VIH. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF A. RRnorts of Director of Parkc. Recreation and Facilities 1, Discussion Re SNA Designation for Prairie Bluff C onservation Area and Riley Creek Woods Conservation Area 2. Article on Prooertv-Righis LMU B. Reports of Manager of Parks and Natural Resources 1. Letter to Ken Bombe n President Eden Prairie Soc r ssociation IX. ADJOURNMENT PorkAg/Bob do I 2 APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 18, 1995 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Claire Hilgeman, Chair; Richard Brown, Bruce Bowman, Don Jacobson, Vicki Koenig, David Kracum, Joanne Kube- Harderwijk COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation & Facilities; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation Services STUDENT MEMBER: Mark Bremer I. ROLL CALL The meeting was called to order at 7:00 P.M. by Chair, Claire Hilgeman. All members were present. David Kracum left at 9:45 P.M. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA MOTION: Hilgeman moved to approve the agenda as amended: under IV, add: Human Rights Commission Presentation. Koenig seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. Brown was concerned about the accumulation of trash piling up by the walkway at the school. Lambert indicated that they will try a trash barrel at that location. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - AUGUST 7. 1995 MOTION: Hilgeman moved to approve the Minutes of August 7, 1995 as amended: page 3, fourth paragraph, second sentence should read... The 28 acres are proposed to be dedicated to the City in lieu of cash park fees. Page 4, sixth paragraph, second sentence should read... The project was looked at by the Planning Commission and was continued because of the burial mounds in terms of the location. Brown seconded the motion and it passed 5-0-2 with abstentions by Bowman and Kube-Harderwijk. IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. Humans Rights Commission Presentation 1 Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission September 18, 1995 Julie Winegar, representative from the Human Rights Commission, gave a brief presentation to the Commission. She noted that the Human Rights Commission has decided to offer diversity training to all the Commission members of the various Commissions at Eden Prairie as part of their work plan. The staff members have already been trained. They are offering two sessions on two consecutive Wednesday nights, October 25th and November 8th, from 6:30 P.M. to 9:30 P.M. The head of the Human Resources Department at the University of Minnesota will be speaking the first night on topics such as change in demographics, social perception, and the use and abuse of power. The second evening will be more of an interactive session where they will all be involved in their own personal awareness and ideas such as privilege, and what they can all do as a diversity changing agency. Starting next Spring when the new Commissioners are brought on board, this will be part of their orientation. There is a registration form in the packets asking for people to sign up on a volunteer basis. All Commission members are urged to attend. Hilgeman was concerned about the status of the Tree Ordinance Committee report. Fox indicated that it will be going to the Committee first, hopefully within the next two weeks. Then it will go to all the Commissions and City Council. The Committee will meet one more time. He has contacted two people that want to see one more thing prior to it going back to the Commissions. B. Request from the Trails Association Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 7, 1995, from Bob Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation & Facilities. I Lambert noted that representatives from the Trails Association contacted City Staff for the first time about two or three years ago. They asked about whether or not the City will accept the trail. Staff found that in the initial review the trail was required as part of a dedication for the plat. Staff said that they would probably accept ownership of the trail if they pay for the upgrade to City standards. Members of the Association didn't think they owned the trail. They thought it was owned by the Preserve. They did more research and found out the Preserve did not own the trail. It was supposed to be dedicated to the City as part of the condition of the C: approval, but the developer never got around to it. 2 Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission September 18, 1995 Staff received calls from a number of people wanting to save the trail. Representatives from The Trails Association came before the Council. The Council wants to keep the trail and asked Staff to get a cost on what it would cost to upgrade it. The Trails Association say that they don't want the liability, and see no requirement to keep it. They will give it to the City if there is no cost to them. If there is cost to them, then they will plow it up and throw grass seed in there to end their liability. The City can probably replace the trail sections that have to be replaced, and upgrade it to City standards to a six foot wide trail. Staff can do that for about $5,000, and contracted out, it would cost about $9,000. Staff asked the Commission to recommend to the Council that they need that section of the trail. Staff also recommends that the city attorney prepare the necessary transfer agreement to transfer that to the City, and it would be upgraded in 1996. Hilgeman commented that she is comfortable with Staff s recommendation because it was supposed to be dedicated to the City a long time ago. MOTION: Hilgeman moved that the Commission accept City Staff's recommendation. Kube-Harderwijk seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. C. Petition from Robert A. Skanse Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 14, 1995, from Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources. Robert A. Skanse, reviewed his petition with the Commission. He noted that he currently lives in Bloomington and is constructing a home in Eden Prairie. In the backyard there is an area that has been an area for water drainage for quite some time. When he originally bought the lot three years ago, there were no homes to the north and you could see how that water was draining down there. He was under the impression that anything he did in the back would not invovle City property. His request is to fill in the back that would help control the water drainage, and would also enable him to use more of the yard. Fox reviewed the background of this development area with the Commission. Staff's recommendation is that it remain natural, that any erosion that took place be restored and be put in a 3:1 slope, and steps taken to prohibit any further erosion from taking place. The second 3 Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission September 18, 1995 option would be to recommend that Mr. Skanse construct a retaining wall at the rear lot line that would enable him to maximize usage of his lot and preserve the ravine that is currently existing on Outlot C. The third option would be to have Mr. Skanse fill in the City outlot, incur all the costs, as well as all the restoration costs. Koenig was concerned about whether anyone from engineering had been out to look at that property to find out how feasible it is to put in a retaining wall. Fox replied that Jeff Johnson was out there and he said there would be no problem with a retaining wall. Brown expressed concern about if he put in a wall and raised that, what would he do with the overall drainage of the whole area. Fox replied that the catch basin at the bottom is to catch any of the overflow. It's not instrumental in the upper drainage area. The upper drainage area is covered by a catch basin. These two catch basins are designed to catch all the drainage from the upper area. Bowman asked if any permits are needed for retaining walls. He was concerned about the look for the neighborhood. Fox replied that City Code only states that anything over six feet in height has to be certified by an engineer, and it has to be inspected during construction. j Hilgeman was concerned about the liability issue in the event this system fails. Fox replied that the property owner is liable if it fails. Bowman was concerned about what slope the fill would take. Fox illustrated it on the map for the Commission. Kracum was concerned about whether they are trying to alter a natural condition, or restore an unnatural condition, as a result of erosion, to its natural state. Hilgeman commented that she has no problem with Mr. Skanse filling up to his line. She was concerned about setting a precedent. She recommended that they restore it up until his lot line. Skanse commented that he knows that a precedent is a concern of the Commission, but he appealed to them that this is a very unique situation. Brown expressed concern about the retaining wall being built on the slope side of the draining, because if it's on the property line it's going to put 4 „ Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission September 18, 1995 the catch basin underneath his fill. Fox noted that the recommendation would be not to impact the catch basin at the bottom. Brown wanted assurance that these plans would be reviewed by the City, and that the City is willing to do this. Lambert indicated that he would be required to get permits from the City to fill in a drainage easement. MOTION: Kube-Harderwijk moved to recommend that Mr. Skanse be denied his request, but be allowed to construct a retaining wall at the rear lot line of this/his lot and preserve the ravine currently existing on Outlot C. Hilgeman seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. w V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS A. None VI. OLD BUSINESS i 7 A. Purgatory Creek Recreation Area Revised Entry Plan Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 13, 1995, from Bob Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Facilities. i Lambert indicated that Staff requested the City Council to authorize the City to get some revised concepts for the Purgatory Creek Recreation Area. Brauer and Associates have prepared three different concepts for this project. The process would be to take each of the concepts to the Parks Commission and the Planning Commission. The Commission recommendations would be forwarded to the City Council. The City Council would make a decision on which of the concepts they like. Once the Council has decided on the final configuration, Brauer and Associates j will provide a more detailed plan of that final configuration. That plan will be forwarded to the Watershed District to be included in the permit process for the project that will be initiated in the Fall of 1996. Staff reviewed the three concept plans with the Commission using sketches and noted that the major purpose of the Purgatory Creek Recreation Area is three fold. One is to preserve the marsh and to improve the marsh for wildlife. The second is to improve the water quality that comes from Purgatory Creek, and the drainage system in the major center area and end up in Staring Lake. Thirdly is to provide some recreation opportunity for the residents of the community. 5 r Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission September 18, 1995 Kube-Harderwijk commented that she likes the outlay of Concept C, but is concerned about the mosquitoes that may affect outdoor dining. She likes the more formal boulevard coming in, and would like to see retail shops in there. She feels they can do some very unique designs using the water as a background. . She thinks small unique stores and ice-cream parlors would work extremely well. She is not fond of the office concept. Lambert noted that he doesn't see the mosquitoes as being a problem because this will be open water and hard edges adjacent to the restaurant. Bowman indicated that he would be in favor of the retail or the restaurants. There would be higher property values with dueling restaurants because of the wall to wall windows on the water. These would be fine dining restaurants. Some of the shops talked about for the retail would only be good in the summer and not in the winter. Hilgeman commented that Eden Prairie needs more family type restaurants rather than fine dining restaurants. She noted that she has four children. Kracum noted that he has two children and likes to get a baby-sitter and go out to a fine restaurant. The only place to go for that is downtown or to the Galleria. Eden Prairie needs a fine dining restaurant. He feels an upper scale restaurant will work. Jacobson commented that he likes half of Concept C and half of Concept A. He likes the Norman Rockwell of the midwest concept where you have a little village, a large ice-skating rink and lights. Brown indicated that he likes the concept of sculptures around the walk and one nice restaurant. This would be a nice setting for weddings. He was concerned about two restaurants. Koenig commented that she likes the restaurant idea. She does not like the office building and feels that the last thing Eden Prairie needs is another strip mall. She likes the idea of open skating. There are a lot of different features from all three plans, but supports the restaurant more than the other two concepts. Hilgeman said she supports Concept C. Koenig expressed concern about the wetland mitigation. Lambert �. responded that they are going through the process now. They don't know 6 Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission September 18, 1995 if they have to mitigate at all. The initial review said there wouldn't be any mitigation because they were creating a certain amount of improvements and improving some wetland. Koenig asked how many parking spaces the transit hub is going to have. Lambert replied that he heard 500 to 900 depending on what the uses are going to be. Kube-Harderwijk commented that she likes the pond configuration in Concept A better because it's got two outlets and gives you an island in the middle. MOTION: Kube-Harderwijk moved that the Commission would like to see the following features: site lines for the fountains as in Concept C; ice rinks and the tree lit walks as in Concept B; the sculpture and outdoor public art at various locations that depict nature and history walks, and the seating as in Concept B; a pond approximately about the size of Concept C. They are working off Concept C with some other features, and with the preferred use of restaurants, and secondary is quaint shops. Jacobson seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. B. Eden Prairie Transit Hub - Soil Correction Plan Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 6, 1995, from Kate Garwood, Policy and Administration Coordinator, and Diane Harberts, Executive Director, of Southwest Metro Transit. Kyle Williams, representing Southwest Metro Transit, reviewed the soil correction plan to the Commission. He noted that the soil is very bad. All of their buildings will be on pilings, but they have to correct the parking lot area. They are asking tonight to begin that process. He explained the process of surcharging. They would like to start this year. They are working with MnDOT and might be able to develop a supplemental agreement with that project, and do at least part of the soil correction this year. Hilgeman was not certain about what the surcharge is. Williams explained that the surcharge is that which is above the finished grading project. They will remove the surcharge. It's a load on the site that will sit there for nine months. When they are ready to build the site, it will come out. 7 .n i Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission September 18, 1995 Lambert noted that it's a good idea for the transit hub to keep the City Council, the Planning Commission, and the Parks Commission informed of what's going on there. VII. NEW BUSINESS A. iller Park Plan for Skating Rinks and Warming House Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 6, 1995, from Bob Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Facilities. Lambert noted that early this year the Hockey Association hired an architect to work with the City to come up with a unique plan for multiple use of a skating facility that would also work as a park shelter in the summer. Several weeks ago the Commission recommended denial of that recommendation and it didn't go any further. Staff also noted, at that time, that they would be coming forward within a short time to recommend approval of some additional outdoor facilities to help alleviate Cthe growing demand for skating that the Hockey Association has. Fox pointed out on the map where Staff is recommending construction of a parking lot, warming house and skating facility to be constructed next year. It shows parking with 47 spaces with a conceptual size of about a 600 square foot warming house, with a junior hockey rink and a regulation size hockey rink. Staff recommends that the park shelter be just a rock-face block building with a metal roof, probably blue. This building would have restrooms, and designed to have a covered area for picnic tables in the summer. Staff recommends authorization to consider some design services to get a concise design, and soil testing to see what corrections need to be made on this property to construct this project. The timing for this project will be to go out for bid in February, with bids approved in late March and construction to begin late April and completed by October 1st. The funding source is cash park fees. Hilgeman was concerned about this being funded by cash hark fees because it will take away from upgrading neighborhood parks. Bowman was concerned about how long the skating season is. Lambert noted that the earliest is December 15th, and it ends at the end of February. It's about a two and a half month season. 8 . . .. ... ., ..... •...i._.... .__ 1_ r ........ .1_.. ... .. 5�_�..n-.r,. .. _ ,.. ;(`j� ';1.�'f ..,.�,n,.. .. ...$]di. Y.l'a.veR. Yir Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission September 18, 1995 Hilgeman commented that she likes the dual use for summer and winter. They need a place where kids can rollerblade with safety. However, she was concerned that this was not a priority in the five year CIP. Lambert noted that in the CIP there was $130,000 budget for skating facilities at Miller Park in 1996. The schedule in that concept plan was based on the priorities in the memo that the Commission reviewed. The Hockey Association is talking about the number of kids coming through the program, and this is an alternative to providing another indoor hockey rink. Eden Prairie does not have one-third of outdoor rinks that the other cities have. Outdoor rinks only work where there is a warning house, and they are not going to build a warming house in a smaller neighborhood park. The size and scale of Miller Park certainly calls for a warming house and outdoor skating facility. Brown asked if there were any ice fees. Lambert indicated that there are no fees on outdoor rinks. Hilgeman noted that according to the CIP, this is next to last in priority. Jacobson inquired about the status of Pheasant Woods Park. Lambert replied that they are waiting on the report from the engineering company doing the soil study. He will have an answer probably in two weeks. i Mike Moverhill, a resident, commented that he thinks the facility is needed. He does not think Eden Prairie needs all the football fields and soccer fields and baseball fields that it has. It's difficult to pack up all the neighborhood children and drive a couple of miles to skate. You cannot skate on the free skating rink because it's packed with kids. Round Lake is not large enough to cover the influx of all the young families in this area. Lambert suggested trying something that they have not done before. Right off the edge of where the skating rink is, build an area for a bonfire. Jacobson asked if there have been any requests for a speed skating loop or rink. Lambert replied no. MOTION: Kube-Harderwijk moved to recommend authorization to contract for design services for construction of a warming house, and for a parking lot, and lighted hockey rinks as per the attached schematic plan. Hilgeman seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. 9 Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission September 18, 1995 I, B. Fee Policies Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated August 28, 1995, from Bob Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Facilities. Lambert noted that Staff has been developing some fee policies and he would like to talk about fee policies for recreational programs in the future. Lambert invited his Staff, Laurie Helling, and Lyndell Frey, to discuss his recommendations. Lambert, Helling, and Frey had a philosophical discussion with the Commission on fee policies. Lambert commented that his recommendation in the memorandum is as restrictive as he's comfortable with raising fees to what he thinks is the maximum. Some of his staff feel that he has gone too far with the whole j idea of eliminating subsidies. He does not feel that they should be subsidizing somebody else's baby-sitting or their ski trip to Duluth. Brown asked why preschool playgrounds and afternoon playgrounds are so expensive. Lambert replied that for $30.00 you get a tee shirt and a j recreational supervisor. Many people think it's like a baby-sitting service. l It's an insult to the quality of Staff that they provide. They hire recreational programmers. Kids can come and go. It's a lot of programming and supervision that they are getting for $30.00. Bowman asked how the other programs are staffed. Frey replied that the playground programs have 18 staff people and 14 have a child related degree. Typically they are college seniors, or just graduated out of college, with a ratio of 1:25, and the preschool is 1:10. Bowman commented that he would like to see them raise the rates and get more innovative in scholarships. Frey indicated that they are the most expensive in the surrounding cities. y Brown asked what "integrated" is that cost$29,000. Frey replied that it's special handicapped children who integrate. It allows that handicapped child into the program on a one to one basis. Brown suggested charging for the Staring Lake summer concerts because ( it's costing $18,000 to subsidize the program. The program is now free. j 10 1 T. Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission September 18, 1995 Lambert indicated that it would be difficult to charge admission because of the setting. Bowman commented that the way lie looks at this is he looks at the dollars susidized per individual rather than the total dollars as a way of evaluating value for the general taxpayer. Hilgeman suggested the Commissioners make comments on their copies and send them to her. She will then make up a master of everybody's ideas into summary form and bring it to the next meeting. VIII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF A. Resorts of Director of Parks, Recreation and Facilities 1. Discussion Re: SNA Designation for Prairie Bluff Conservation Area and Riley Creek Woods Conservation Area Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 6, 1995, from Bob Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Facilities. Lambert indicated that he wanted to invite Bob Djupstrom to the Commission meeting and have a discussion. He suggested that the Commission first have a brief discussion on whether or not they want to pursue this at this point. He noted that at this point he was assuming that it would be the DNR maintaining it, and the City got the best of both worlds. The City preserves the land and it wouldn't cost anything. The City preserves the land and it still costs them, but they just loose control of it. i Hilgeman commented that she doesn't want to loose control over it. i Kube-Harderwijk was concerned that if the City puts a conservancy easement over it, can they then renege on that. Lambert replied that if the Council signs it, then they can renege on it. MOTION: Hilgeman moved that the Commission not pursue the 11 • • a; f i Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission September 18, 1995 SNA designation at this time, until the time that circumstances may dictate. Kube-Harderwijk seconded the motion and it passed 6-0-0. 2. Article on Prollerty-Rigbts Laws Lambert noted that this is an FYI item. B. Reports of Manager of Parks and Natural Resources 1. Letter to Ken Bomben, President Eden Prairie Soccer w . Association Fox noted that this is an FYI item. Brown expressed concern about the students at the high school parking in the Community Center parking lot. It seems to always almost be filled. Lambert indicated that the only area where they put the two hour limit on was the area up near the building and beyond that. IX. AIDJOURNMENT MOTION: Kube-Harderwijk moved to adjourn. Koenig seconded the motion and it passed 6-0-0. The meeting was adjourned at 10:55 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Elinda Bahley Recording Secretary 12