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Parks and Recreation - 10/17/1994 �'- ....: .. :'t ;... , � � �i.._ � � .,.�:y.'._''d`....." ',_'".>.3, ...,..._? - .`�-T...a..-�.�'LN.n.�.:�.'�._:.'!" Pti..,�iC;.nhA.m.,�x,!�ar�wNm�•��,Y f 1994 OCTOBER1 3 7 t MINUTES CITY OF EDEN PRAI AE : 1• AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, OCTOBER 3, 1994 7:00 P. M. CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS COMMISSION MEMBERS: Diane Popovich Lynch, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Richard Brown, Claire Hilgeman, Vicki Koenig, David Kracum, Joanne Kube-Harderwijk STUDENT MEMBER: Mark Bremer COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources; Barbara Penning Cross, Landscape Architect; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation Services I. ROLL CALL II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 19, 1994 IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. None V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS A. Riverview Heights 2nd Addition B. Bearnath 4th Addition VI. OLD BUSINESS A. Review of Community-Center Locker Room ExRansion_Plan and Recommenced Community Center Improvements i I VII. NEW BUSINESS A. Recommended Changes for Pool Use Open Swim Hours B. Recommended Changes for Ice Open Skating ours VIII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF A. Reports of Manager of Parks and Natural Resources 1. Recommendation on Winter Use of Hennepin Parks Trail IX. ADJOURNMENT c , APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, OCTOBER 3, 1994 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Diane Popovich Lynch, Chair; Richard Brown, Claire Hilgeman, Joanne Kube-Harderwijk, Vicki Koenig COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Bruce Bowman, David Kracum STUDENT MEMBER: Mark Bremer COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources; Barbara Penning Cross, Landscape Architect; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation Services I. ROLL CALL Meeting called to order at 7 p.m. by Chair, Diane Popovich Lynch. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Lynch requested that an update on the Land Acquisition from Lambert and an update on Miller Park lighting from Cross be added to Old Business. MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Kube-Harderwijk to approve the agenda as amended. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - SEPTEMBER 19, 1994 MOTION: Moved by Hilgeman, seconded by Kube-Harderwijk to approve the Minutes with the following amendments: Add to the MOTION of V.B.,page 3 "In discussion commission members questioned why Wal Mart was not required to pay park fees with their approval. Lambert explained that state law ties the right to charge park fees to the subdivision of land. Wal Mart bought a parcel of property that did not require subdivision; therefore, technically they were not required to pay the fee. Commission members expressed dismay that Wal Mart used a loop hole to get around a requirement to pay their fair share toward the city's park and . open space system. They wanted the record to reflect their disappointment with Wal Mart." I 1 Delete from page 1, I11, 5th line "Koenig stated the motion on page 5 passed 3 - 3". Change page 1, II to read, "Lynch asked that an update from Fox on the Tree Preservation Ordinance Committee be added to the agenda." Page 4, B, 6th line should read "and then have", rather than "the". Page 5, D. should read "Cross highlighted". Motion passed 5-0. IV. PETITIONS. REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. None V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS A. Riverview Heights 2nd Addition - Beth Simstead of the Hustad Company did a brief presentation on behalf of the Brown family as outlined in attached Staff Report of August 19, 1994. She also indicated that on September 22 they invited 35 families to a neighborhood meeting. They had a good turnout. Kevin and Laura Blumel, 10540 West Riverview Drive presented the following outstanding issues: I � The developer had agreed to keep the trail on the east side, on the Riverview Heights property. Now they're asking for a change. The change notification process was inadequate. The location is a poor choice. f Also they think the raw sewage put on the outlot years ago hasn't been reviewed. PCA gave their opinion only on the Williams Pipeline spill, not on the Waste Commission spill. They don't think the Brown's should have to dedicate property to get something from the City. It's damaged property; doesn't think Brown's should be awarded a taxbreak that other taxpayers will have to pick up paying the taxes on that property. A trail in the Wildlife Rcfuge wasn't on the original plans. They are also concerned about displacement of animals. In response to the issues Lambert said the City had depicted a trail in this location down to the floodplain since the early 1980's. The exact location within the Brown property wasn't critical. The trail is now only a few feet from the original plan. Cross stated that a signoff from the PCA was received. Lynch indicated that the staff worked with the City Attorney's office and it was determined the we are following federal law regarding dedication of park land property. 2 Unapproved Minutes Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources October 3, 1994 Gail Diehl, 10530 Riverview Drive West, stated she was at the neighborhood meeting. Thinks that whatever is decided regarding a trail location should be ; decided before more houses are built and then don't change the plan after people have built their homes. In response to Commission Members comments, Simestad indicated the erosion control will be the same as Phase I, which includes silt fencing. They will be doing more archeological work this fall which will be completed before development begins. Mark Frank, 10462 Covington Circle stated he is concerned about the steep slope and how plows will get up there. Also he continues to get more and more deer in his yard. Development will just displace more deer and cause them to come onto his property. Lynch indicated that the deer management plan is being put in place to help control deer in certain areas. MOTION: Moved by Hilgeman., seconded by Koenig to approve the Riverview Heights 2nd Addition as per staff recommendation of September 29, 1994, with the amendment that prior to development archeological work must be done to determine if there are significant findings on the lower portion of lots 4, 5 and 6 and that information be provided to staff. Motion passed 5 - 0. B. Bearpath 4th Addition - John Vogelbacher, representing Sienna Corporation, the developer of Bearpath, indicated they are asking the City to amend the existing PUD agreement to add the 9 lots and make the road a private street. They have received preliminary plat approval and now need approval from the Parks Commission.House pads are proposed and the builder and developers must adhere to them. They still have to meet with the Watershed District . There will be limited equipment in the area; tree fencing will be put up if necessary. Cross indicated to the Commission that the City can ask the developer to meet the "Centex plan requirements". Also that they can work with the Planning Commission on the number of displaced trees that must be replanted within the project site. They have also been given a variance for the dead end road in order to save more trees. Cross indicated that all issued in the August 26, 1994 letter from the DNR have been addressed. MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Kube-Harderwijk to approve the ` Bearpath 4th addition as per the additional requirement that must be met. Lynch amended motion to require that developer use the Centex tree preservation policy in order to prevent additional tree loss and to protect the trees that are there. Motion passed 5 - 0. 3 Unapproved Minutes Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources October 3, 1994 VI. OLD BUSINESS A. Review Community Center Locker Room Expansion Plan and Recommended Community Center Improvements - Lambert indicated that nothing has changed since the July 18 Commission meeting when it was last discussed. It is on the City Council agenda for tomorrow evening. The delay was to allow time to look for other available funding sources for the Peterson property. At the last Council meeting, they decided to proceed with the acquisition of the Charlson, Trost, and George properties using the referendum funds. The Council authorized use of existing Cash Park Fees for the Peterson property thinking that acquiring/preserving land is more critical need than facility improvement, which can be done at a later date. This action has direct bearing on how the Community r Center improvements would be funded, improvements will have to be funded by a referendum. B. Miller Park Lightine - Lambert stated that staff will meet with the neighborhood at 7:15 on October 5 on the comer of Weston Bay and Timber Lakes Drive to turn the lights on. Electricians will be there to let the neighbors know what they can or can't do with the lights. i VII. NEW BUSINESS A. Recommended Change for Pool Use Open Swim Hours - Lambert gave background on the proposals from both Elyce Kastigar and Dave Black on the need to be able to make better use of both the swimming pool and skating rinks. He stressed that no decisions or action would be made by the Commission on these issues this evening. He reviewed some of the existing facts: the pool is empty by about 8:45 p.m,; the ice arena and all of our gyms are full of children until 10 p.m. every night of the week; there is a waiting list for ongoing swim lessons; evaluations at the end of swim lessons consistently express concern that we don't provide enough lessons, and that we accommodate the Foxjets and no one else concerning the pool. We have one pool to accommodate 45,000 people. Lambert thinks the community has not been served as well as it could concerning the pool usage. Several options to consider are: move the Foxjet practice time to later in the evening and expand the lesson program,have shared open swim,lap time and lesson programs earlier in the evening as proposed; or possibly eliminating the open swim and lap time in the early evening and expanding the lesson programs into those times; or leave the schedule as is until the new pool at Oak Point is constructed. However, the Oak Point pool isn't scheduled to open until spring, 1996. Lambert reminded the Commission members of the long commitment the City has had toward maintaining open swimming hours for the general public. 4 Unapproved Minutes Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources October 3, 1994 Lambert recommends that the issue be discussed with representatives from the Foxjets and returned to the Commission with a recommendation at their next meeting. The following persons spoke on behalf of the many parents and swimmers who came to support the Foxjcts tonight: Jack Shimoto, 18741 Nature Lane - President of Eden Prairie Fox jets Swim Club Tad Hauck, 17928 Lorence Way-Head Coach of Eden Prairie Foxjets Swim Club Judy Wencl, 8531 Hiawatha Ave - Treasurer of Eden Prairie Foxjets Swim Club Bruce Frimerman, 7108 Interlachen Court - Foxjet parent Kate Lundsten - .Head Coach, Eden Prairie High School Girls Swim Team Shimota reviewed the material in a Foxjet Swim packet that was passed out to Commission members. He indicated the proposed schedule change was not acceptable to them. The speakers major issues were: - Why the Foxjets weren't notified before September 30, 1994 of the October 3 meeting to discuss changes. - The change would present a major hardship. As late as 10 pm isn't acceptable; some swimmers would be leaving after curfew. - The proposed schedule couldn't serve those 8 and under. - They would lose 80% of the 9 - 10 year olds. - They would lose 20 - 30 % of 11 - 12 year olds. - Ages 13 and over would go to other teams. - Compared to open skating, the proposed swim schedule would set a double standard since there isn't any evening open skating Monday through Thursday. - There's a 1981 contract stating open swim can't supersede the Foxjets, which is a non profit organization. MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Hilgeman that the Foxjet leaders, 1 Commission members and staff and Community Center staff work on a schedule that is reasonable and suitable for all concerned. Motion passed 5 - 0. B. Recommended Changes for Ice. ORen Skating Hours - Lambert pointed out that Black's recommendations are to the Director. A survey conducted by Black indicated that other area ice arenas do not have three hour open skate times. Black then reviewed how the hours at the Community Center could be changed to accommodate open skating, the Figure Skating Club and the Hockey Association. j Lambert emphasized that the open skate times were set up by a citizens committee j in 1979 when the Community Center was in the planning. At that time those j ( citizens said if they were going to subsidize the Community Center with their tax 5 i. i 1 1 Minutes Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources October 3, 1994 dollars they didn't want special interest groups to dictate how the Center would be operated. For the most part, these hours have been preserved since that time. In response to Commission members Questions Black stated that open skate sessions serve 75 - 150 people per session with Sunday afternoon having the most users, then Saturday afternoon, Friday evening and lowest is Saturday evening. From comments he received from patrons, Black stated they thought Friday and Saturday evenings were too late for families. Also there were some problems with some of the 10 -15 year olds "hanging out" and not skating. Black thinks the Friday and Saturday proposed hours will be more effective and attractive to the residents, especially families that want to skate together. Hilgeman expressed concern about cutting the open skating time almost in half- from 12 hours to 6.5 hours per week. She was equally surprised to learn that other communities had as little as 2 hours of open skating per week. MOTION: Moved by Hilgeman, seconded by Brown to recommend to change the open skating times at the Community Center per Dave Black's memo for September 21, 1994. a In discussion,Lambert indicated that no action was to be taken tonight; Staff only wanted input. Staff will make these recommendations with the total package recommendations on both the swimming pool and skating rink the next time this is on the agenda. The Motion wasn't voted on but was taken as a consensus of agreement by the Commission on the proposed changes. VIII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF A. Reports of Manger of Parks and Natural Resources 1. Recommendation on Winter Use of Hennepin Parks Trail - Lambert addressed this issue stating that Hennepin County has left the operation of the trail from November I through March up to local communities. ' Lambert suggested that this first year be used only for walking and cross country skiing. Motorized vehicles wouldn't be allowed; the trail wouldn't be plowed or groomed. He talked about permission from Hennepin Parks and public feedback as outlined in his September 28 memo on the subject. Discussion by commission members in how to notify the public of what we're doing regarding this trail this year brought up several issues: should there be signs indicating what the City is doing and who to contact if they have comments, so they don't think we are ignoring them or is it better i 6 ' ..... �,�� / .. .... �_ •. .... .. .,....{..� .. �.. a .. ... !. .! ...... .�Minutes Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources October 3, 1994 to just let people call the City if the have questions or comments. We don't have signs now and they know who to call. No action or motion was required on this issue. IX. ADJOURNMENT Meeting adjourned at 9:30 p.m. Respectfully submitted w Bev Draves Recording Secretary I - I i 7 �1 AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, OCTOBER 17, 1994 7:00 P. M. CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS COMMISSION MEMBERS: Diane Popovich Lynch, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Richard Brown, Claire Hilgeman, Vicki Koenig, David Kracum, Joanne Kube-Harderwijk STUDENT MEMBER: Mark Bremer, Brian Mustanski COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources; Barbara Penning Cross, Landscape Architect; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation Services I. ROLL CALL - Introduction of New Student Member Brian Mustanski II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - OCTOBER 3 1994 IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. Request for Informational Bulletin Board at Flying Cloud Fields from non Jacobson V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS VI. OLD BUSINESS A. Recommendation to Change Pool Hours at Community Center B. Recommendation to Change Opening Skating Hours at Community enter VII. NEW BUSINESS VIII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF A. Rel2orts of Manager of Parks and Natural Resources 1. Notice of Congressional District 3 D Candidate Forum - information iWM IX. ADJOURNMENT ' .;.:, .+. ...,,,. ... ,.__:�;: .,... i.,:, ht1 I•ia 4c K�y,'`"ny"ti �'t ti t t APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, OCTOBER 17, 1994 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER COUNCIL CHAMBERS COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Bruce Bowman, Richard Brown, Claire Hilgeman, Vicki Koenig, David Kracum, Joanne Kube-Harderwijk COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Diane Popovich Lynch STUDENT MEMBERS PRESENT: Mark Bremer, Brian Mustanski COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation Services, Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources, Elyce Kastigar, Recreation Supervisor, Aquatic and Fitness I. ROLL CALL_ The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Bowman. Bowman welcomed student member Brian Mustanski to the Commission and encouraged him to participate. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Brown added VI., C., Question Regarding Staff Report to City Council Reg rding Park Fees MOTION: Koenig moved to approve the Agenda as amended. Motion seconded by Hilgeman and passed 6-0. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF OCTOBER 3 1994 MOTION: Hilgeman moved to approve the minutes of the October 3, 1994, Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission meeting as presented. Motion seconded by Koenig and passed. Commissioners Kracum and Brown abstained. After the minutes were approved as presented, Commissioner Hilgeman noted a typographical error, indicating that under III., in the last paragraph on page 1, the word "fare" should be changed to "fair", and the sentence should read h ' ..... � ,_ .,.. i 7 r ,.. .. ._'.h*1.... .l:P.,.N>f�1W . ...,.k.'M�.!..i�,l ,..... f.....- .,.rNSi..•L1'�v.�Crv.�.1.�..L�l.. yr' approved Minutes -' Eden Prairie Park, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Tuesday, October 17, 1994 t "... Wal Mart used a loop hole to get around a requirement to pay their fair share...." IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. Reauest for Informational Bulletin Board at Flying Cloud Fields from Don Jacobson Fox explained that the City had received a petition from the Soccer Association for an information bulletin board to be placed at Flying Cloud Fields, and that Staff has recommended that a general, double sided, kiosk be installed instead. Don Jacobson of the Soccer Association explained that he was petitioning to have a sign placed at the east end driveway of the park so that it would be visible to people in cars exiting the complex. Jacobson explained that he had discussed this matter with other associations who agreed that a bulletin board of this type would be advantageous. Jacobson explained that the sign would be a white plexiglas 4' by 8' bulletin board, using 6" letters, located approximately 3' to 4! off the Ic ground, and it could be located at the east exit so that it would not slow traffic down at the beginning of events. Jacobson stated that the sign would be used to put up important messages. Hilgeman commented that a 4' by 8' sign would be very limited if used for all of the different sports at that location. Brown commented that if the Commission allows the Soccer Association to put up a board, they would not be able to turn down requests for boards from other associations, and Jacobson responded that the board he is requesting would be for all associations using the Flying Cloud fields. Hilgeman asked about the size of the kiosk proposed by Staff, and Fox explained that the kiosk would be double sided, free standing, 4' high by 6' long, and could be used for posting sheets of paper. It could be placed by the concession stand since that is the focal point of the park, and could be used by anyone since it would not be locked. Commissioners discussed at what distance the bulletin board would be visible and what types of messages would be displayed. 2 41 ,approved Minutes Eden Prairie Park, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Tuesday, October 17, 1994 Koenig asked if the Soccer Association would donate the bulletin board, and Jacobson explained that the bulletin board had already been made before they realized there was a sign ordinance, and it is ready for installation. Koenig asked then if the kiosk would come out of the Commission's funds, and Fox stated that it would, but that it would serve all associations. Fox commented that there is a sign size ordinance and noted that the question is where would you draw the line for other associations and facilities. Jacobson stated that most associations at Flying Cloud are in the same age group, so communication with the requested bulletin board would be within that age group. Kracum asked if the proposed bulletin board runs afoul of the sign ordinance, and Fox stated that it does not, but what happens if we need more signs. Student Commissioner Bremer commented that the wrong media for communication was being discussed, and suggested setting up some sort of telephone communication for urgent messages. Bowman stated that for now he would prefer the kiosk proposal, commented that he is in favor of increased communication if it doesn't deter from the beauty of the park. MOTION: Hilgeman moved to approve the information kiosk as per the recommendation of Staff on October 11 , 1994. Motion seconded by Brown and passed 6-0. V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS None. VI. OLD BUSINESS A. Recommendation to Change Pool Hours at Community Center Elyce Kastigar reviewed the proposed changes to the pool schedule and commented that with the revised schedule, which would eliminate open and lap hours during the fall, winter and spring, they would be able to 3 approved Minutes Eden Prairie Park, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Tuesday, October 17, 1994 accommodate the Foxjet Swim Club and also offer the swim lesson program to more children. Jack Shimota, President of the Foxjet Swim Club, commented that he ' appreciated all the work Staff put into revising the schedule and feels it will give the Foxjet Swim Club a chance to continue to grow as an association and hopefully offer a lot back to the community. Commissioners discussed the proposed changes to the schedule. Hilgeman commented that this seems like a stop gap measure until we get the other pool, and stated that while she is not happy about eliminating open swim, if the Foxjets will accept it, it is a good plan. r Kastigar explained that this revised schedule would be used until the City has another pool. MOTION: Brown moved to accept the revised schedule at the pool for use by the public and the Foxjet Swim Club per Staff recommendation. Motion seconded o ded by Kracum and approved 6-0. B. Recommendation to Change Opening Skating Hours at Community Center Dave Black, Operations Supervisor, explained that this matter had been brought before the Commission two weeks ago and had needed a little fine tuning. MOTION: Kube-Harderwijk moved to accept the changes in open skating times at the Community Center as per recommendations in Staff memorandum of October 10, 1994. Motion seconded by Hilgeman and passed 6-0. C. Question Reaardina Staff Report to City Council Regarding Park Fees Brown expressed concern over Lambert's communication to City Council regarding the Commission's discussion and motions regarding suggested park fees to be assessed to Doolittles Restaurant and Wal-Mart. Brown felt the memorandum did not fully reflect the Commission's ( recommendations. 4 , approved Minutes Eden Prairie Park, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Tuesday, October 17, 1994 Hilgeman stated that the City Council had also received all of the Commission's information, and they may have made their decision before reviewing Lambert's memorandum. Bowman commented that Lambert will need to respond to this matter. VII. NEW BUSINESS None. J VIII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF ~� A. Reports of Manager of Parks and Natural Resources 1. Notire of Congressional District #3 Candidate-Forum Information Item Only. ; IX. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Hilgeman moved to adjourn the meeting. Motion seconded by ., Kracum and passed 6-0. The meeting was adjourned at 7:57 p.m. i Respectfully submitted, Susan Forster Recording Secretary x :1 a C. r, 5 t.