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Parks and Recreation - 04/18/1994 `1 1994 1 A III IL 18 1._ MINUTES CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE t"i z AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, APRIL 18, 1994 7:00 P. M. CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS COMMISSION MEMBERS: Diane Popovich Lynch, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Richard Brown, Claire Hilgeman, Vicki Koenig, David Kracum, Joanne Kube-Harderwijk STUDENT MEMBER: Mark Bremer COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources; Barbara Penning Cross, Landscape Architect; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation Services I. ROLL CALL i it r II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF MARCH 21 1994 IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. Eden Lake Elementary School Request for Nature Trail B. Request for a Permit for a Retraceable Slalom Course on Bryant ake a V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS A. None VI. OLD BUSINESS �I A. Deer Study Report B. Option Agreement for Charlson Property, C. Appoint Housing and 4nrial Services C'ommittep Representative from Parks. Recreation and Natural Resources Commission D. Annrove Bids for Riley rake party Construction VII. NEW BUSINESS ( A. None VIIl. ADJOURf-qMENT parkag/Bob60 APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, APRIL 1 S, 1994 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER COUNCIL CHAMBERS COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: David Kracum, Bruce Bowman, Richard Brown, Claire Hilgeman, Vicki Koenig, Joanne Kube- Hardcrwijk COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Diane Popovich Lynch STUDENT MEMBER: Mark Bremer COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Barbara Penning Cross, Landscape Architect I. ROLL CAL The meeting was called to order at 7:05 p.m, by Vice-Chair, Bruce Bowman. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Bowman stated that the Grant Hussey Memorial Update would be added to the agenda. Seconded by Kube-Harderwijk. Motion passed 6 - 0. 111. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - March 21 1994 Moved by Hilgeman, seconded by Brown with corrections to V.A. paragraph 3 (page 4) to read "when we �Y to approve a 1.95 million dollar Natural Resource, Referendum." Koenig moved to add to the motion in V.A., "Motion passed 7 - 0. Motion passed 5 - 0; 1 abstention. IV. PETITIONS. REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. Eden Lake Elcmentary School Reoues+ for Nature Trail - Cross indicated that the request was for a nature trail on City Property and introduced Bob Hallett, Principal of Eden Lake School. He stated they had a Naturalist in about a year ago. He met with students and teachers and proposed some ideas on how they could make use of all the natural resources they have. Hallett introduced Mr. Mark Brown. Mark Brown had 3 points to cover: description, how the project relates to curriculum and cost. He pointed out the area requested for the trail on the screen t map. The trail would be 5 feet wide. They would also develop two outdoor 1 Approved Minutes Park, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, April 18, 1994 classrooms using benches and platforms in a natural setting. Community volunteers, teachers and students would help put the project together. Access and safety are a concern in setting up the trail. Bowman asked if any trees would be impacted by the trail. Brown said there are a few dead trees that need to be cut down. The path is designed to follow the natural lay of the land. They want to keep the area as natural as possible. Bowman stated he completely endorses this project. Dick Brown asked if the trail would impact marsh lands. Mark Brown said there is a lot of tall grass but little marsh. There's a slight area that they would need to cut through for the trail. Cross injected that it's a low area. Eden Lake is a storm/water pond for the Shopping Center and is not a DNR protected wetland. Cross indicated they would be working with the DNR and Watershed District in case they need permits. Hilgeman thinks this is a fantastic opportunity; the "in thing" to use natural land for school activities. Koenig wondered if the northern most part of the trail would follow the embankment. Mark Brown said the trail would be 50 - 60 feet from the tower and away from the embankment. Kube- Harderwijk thinks it's an excellent idea. Bowman asked what the time frame would be for completion of the project. Mark Brown said the trail would be started this Spring and finished in the Fall. MOTION: Moved by Hilgeman, seconded by Koenig to recommend approval of the request from Eden Lake Elementary School for a Nature Trail on City property. Motion passed 7 - 0. B. Grant Hussey Memorial Update - Fox indicated that the members of the Parks Commission in January petitioned approval of an amendment to a scenic easement on private property for the Grant Hussey Memorial. After several discussions, they settled on trying to do a planting in Staring Lake Park in the "y"area below the amphitheater. They would like a bench and landscaping around it with low maintenance plants, flowers and shrubs. The approximate size is 650 square feet. Brown asked who would maintain it. Lambert indicated the City would be responsible but that any volunteers requesting to maintain it would be allowed to do so. MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Hilgeman to approve the new location of the Grant Hussey Memorial as proposed. Motion passed 6 - 0. C. Rcnuest for a Permit for a Retractable Slalom Course on Bryant Lake - Lambert stated that Mr Gibbs' initial request was in January (1994). A formal request was submitted in March, 1994. In following City ordinances, a Notice of Public 2 Low Approved Minutes Park, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, April 18, 1994 Hearing was published in the Eden Prairie News, and letters were sent to Bryant n Lake residents. Lambert read two more letters he received today; one from Theodore Vickerman approving the request and from James C.Duncan opposing the request. Ten other letters have been received opposing the installation of the course and one in favor of it. There have also been one or two telephone calls in favor of installation and an equal number in opposition of the installation, mainly from lake residents. Lambert introduced Mr. Gibbs. Gibbs indicated that he has talked to residents closest to the location of the proposed installation. He handed Commission members and staff a copy of signatures of 12 residents that support the installation. In the past he has used a portable Slalom course that takes about 45 minutes each to set up and to take down. He is requesting permission to install a permanent course that would be submerged when not in use and then raised again to use it. Residents would be allowed to use it for recreational purposes. He would use it 2 or 3 times a week, usually from 8 - 10 am and in the evening about 7 p.m, or later. Typically the course is used only when there aren't any other boats on the lake. If there are fisherman on the lake,he stops and talks to them and lets them know what's going on. His response to lake shore erosion from the skiers was that he would use the lake whether or not the course was permanently installed or not. It won't limit use of the lake since he doesn't ski when there are other boats or users on the lake. It needs to be quiet. The course won't be up if there's a lot of traffic. He's invited neighbors to use the course and offered to teach them to water ski. Only residents would have access to the course; no outside users would be allowed. Another problem that has been voiced is that 5:30 - 6:00 a.m. time creates noise for the residents. This is true and he's recommending a time that's acceptable. There are also non-residents (of the lake) creating noise dropping their boats in. Bowman said he understood that Gibbs did want to work with others on the lake concerning hours. How would he control those hours? Gibbs indicated he has discussed the hours with the residents on Beach road and they don't have a problem with the 6:30 a.m. time. He's mentioning a 7:30 - 8:00 a.m. time frame which would be more acceptable to others on the lake. Currently there's noise when setting up the temporary course about 45 minutes before they actually ski. Bowman asked Lambert if there were any restrictions on hours when the lake can be used for power boats or will the park be open 24 hours a day. Hours are usually sunrise to sunset, Lambert replied. Bowman inquired if there were restrictions on portable buoys. Lambert said temporary marker buoys don't require a permit unless left up overnight. Kracu n 3 Approved Minutes Park, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, April 18, 1994 asked if there were any restrictions on size of boats or engines. Lambert responded that there's no limit to size of boat or engine, but there is a 20 mph speed limit in force on Sundays and holidays. The Water Patrol would be needed to enforce this and they have a limited number of people. Bowman inquired as to the position of the structure and that there would be only about a 20 feet variation for the structure to fit the ordinance guidelines. Gibbs indicated he talked to Lambert and that they may need to go out 200 feet to make it work. Lambert indicated that to go out more than 200 feet would require a variance on the permit. Bowman is concerned about installation and that it may take several tries to get the course in place; pulling it up and down would disturb the bottom. There would also be some disturbance in the initial setup. Gibbs said anchors would hold it in place. There are 6 buoys, 4 feet above the water and 3 anchors. Kracum inquired as to what the highest point below the surface buoys will be when fully retracted. Gibbs said 6 feet in 12 feet of water. Someone would need to dive 15 feet to touch the PVC. Kracum wondered if there were courses on any other lakes. Gibbs named several in the area including Lotus and Christmas. Koenig voiced concern over the shallow depth of Bryant and what the environmental impact on the bottom might be and what the average horsepower of the boats were. Fishing boats are 10 - 20 horsepower. Gibbs boat is 240 horsepower and the 4 or 5 other people who will use the course will use his boat. Whether they free ski or ski with the course, nothing changes. Ski traffic probably won't increase because the neighbors already ski and the course would just provide them with a safe environment. Hilgcman commented that the request was a matter of convenience for him. Gibbs said there was no question about that,but the course would be in one place and wouldn't move around. Everyone will know where it is. Brown wondered how far out the portable slalom is set up now. Gibbs indicated it depends which direction the winds are from; typically 200 - 400 feet from shore. Recreational skiers usually go in circles or down middle to lake. A competitive skier will ski close to shore where water is quiet. Brown asked if the slalom is approved, who is liable if anything happens; if it's set up and the people who use it lack skill and instructions. Kracum said in his research he found other cities require the applicant to provide liability insurance. Brown was still concerned over public use of the course. Gibbs indicated that he has used the portable course for 3 years. He always checked the capabilities of other users. There's nothing to get hurt on when the course is up. Nothing to fall on. Brown wanted to know who gave him the verbal permission to put up the course C as indicated in the March 2 letter. Gibbs stated that it was from the Hennepin Approved Minutes Park, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, April 18, 1994 County Water Patrol. Gibbs stated that the permanent course is the same size as the portable one. Kracum encourages all those who came to speak to do so. Much of decision will be based on testimonials, calls and letters. ,Tim Duncan - Gibbs has a petition of 12 people in favor of course. There are 7 in the audience opposed plus another 10 letters and telephone calls. If he had time to get on the phone he would get at least another 20 oppositions. High speed boats for a small lake. The course cuts the lake in half, there are narrow passes where the course is to be set up. The 240 horsepower scares the wildlife when they arc feeding. How many animals are nin off and nests destroyed? The sediment build up near his property has gone from 1 foot to 2 1/2 feet in the 7 years he's lived there. He thinks there should be a movement to restrict high power boats on all lakes. This should be closed throttle area. He's against high power boats on Bryant. Bob Franzen - He has been boating when the temporary course was up. It's a small lake. He sees it as a private project. Gibbs is saying that other people can use it but not a lot of people water ski. What if others want water polo, jet ski slolam, etc? It's a pandora's box. The wave action of power boats is a serious threat to erosion. This project has no public benefit. Lgura Blummel - Asked who owns the lake? Lambert said 1/3 of lake shore is owned by Hennepin Parks, which is a public government body. The lake is public. What is square footage of the course? Bowman said about 80,000 sq ft. This is about 2 acres out of 160 acres of lake, Lambert added. Why is he choosing this place? Hilgeman injected because that's where he lives. She doesn't think a private party should be able to reserve a large part of the lake. Who will arbritrate the problems? What is the City's liability? Joe Gardner - Stated he's fed up with all kinds of power boats on Bryant Lake. Power boats and Skiing are an invasive thing. Bryant is a quiet lake. He's bothered by all boats on the lake. John Vangieson - Met Mr. Gibbs 4 years ago. He owns a 240 horsepower boat. It's a safe boat. Mr. Gibbs taught him a few things about water skiing. The bass fishing boats on the lake have horsepower between 125 - 200. Water skiers go no faster than 44 mph. Lake is too crowded. Should limit number of boats to 5 - 10. Trailer space now is for 20-25 boats. Knows of at least 4 other portable courses on the lake. Fisherman with bass boats are noiser than water skiers and so are jet skiiers. He was a skiier before he met Mr. Gibbs. He hopes the Commission aproves the request. 5 ,r Approved Minutes Park, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, April 18, 1994 Denny Nesbitt- Been on the lake for 45 years. Has met Mr. Gibbs. He's a very accommodating man; a gentleman on the lake. He's not the problem. Other people who think they own the lake are. Jet skiers are a problem. Wants everyone to use the lake with consideration for all others. Lot of abuse on the lake., Even a seaplane uses the lake. 'We should be looking at the public safety of the whole lake. Bart Knutson - Lived on the lake for 20 years. Never saw wildlife distrubed in 20 years, except maybe a bird flying. They are used to the environment there. Speed boats aren't chasing them away. Supports a permantent course. Thinks denial won't climanate water ski usage. Everybody has different demands and views. Ed Schuck - He's a Nine Mile Creek Watershed Manager. He owns a power boat and has come to the conclusion that those on the lake with power boats are the problem. " We are taking a jewel and not using it very well." Mr. Gibbs has good intentions. Neighbors think highly of him. Need to do something about the speed. He has lost 3 1/2 feet of shoreline in 7 years. Must look at what we're doing to this resource. City must take a hard look at horsepower and speed on the lake. We can't go ahead with this proposal. Thinks a lot of them will have to give up a lot of what they're doing to save the lake. Dan Grote - His concern is that of preservation and water quality. Would like to see Bryant without any power boats. Asked what are we doing with this natural resource? Asked Lambert to share the DNR letter. Lambert indicated letter wasn't from the DNR but from Hennepin Parks. Results of a 1979 study indicate it depends on water depth, the speed and what kind of lake bottom it is --muddy or gravel, etc. In IS feet of water or shallower, the higher power boats do more damage to the lake bottom. A study of the Mississippi River showed power boats did more damage to shoreline than barges because of wave action. Jim McNeill - The portable courses were left up overnight last year. Permanent or portable courses don't belong on this lake. The lake shouldn't be tied up for anyone's personal use. Can't use public land this way. People who live on the lake may think it's "our" lake. But it belongs to the general public. Proposal should be denied. Greg Sumner - (St. Paul) He fishes on the lake. It's a quite lake. He uses a 24 volt trolling motor and fishes in 20 feet of water. There is good fishing where the course installation is proposed. He questions the liability for someone having something permanent in a lake. J. D. Tuttle - He wrote a letter covering most of the points made here tonight except one. Who supervises to see that the course is pulled below the water. If it's not, who enforces the regulation? He also questions the depth of the lake. 6 � 1 1 Approved Minutes Park, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, April 18, 1994 Jim Rose-He says we need mutual respect for those who live on the lake and for those who utilize the lake. He thinks it's a benefit to having an organized sport on the lake. Bowman indicated the Commission will vote on the issue tonight. It goes before the City Council on Tuesday and the same process as tonight will be followed. Claire indicated the problem has two sides. There's the emotional aspect. She's heard from testimony that Mr. Gibbs is a respectful sportsman. This isn't the issue here. A permanent water ski course would encourge more skiing on the lake causing more destruction. We have to look at future limiting of motor use on the lake. City Ordinence, Subdivision 3. prohibits permanent waterski courses. How can we approve the rights of one over the rights of the public, especially when Bryant Lake Park expands? When do we say an individuals right supersedes the rights of the public. This doesn't benefit a great number of people. Subdivision 3.L. has 8 factors and only two of these could be answered "No" with respect to a permanent course. If we don't look at the emotional side of this and just look at the ordinances then we must deny the request. He can still waterski. It's just that he'll have to enjoy his sport the same way he always has. Brown restated that there arc 6 factors in the ordinance that this installation doesn't meet. He questions if this should be a motorized lake. Kracum said we should resist the temptation to make this decision on the basis we want to send a message that we're not happy with power boat usage on the lake. Are we giving a private group a superior interest in a public place? He's not convicnced that if we deny this request, it will promote preservation of the lake. He's not convicnced that motor boat usage would increase with approval of this proposal. Kube-Harderwijk thinks if course were smaller, it wouldn't be a problem. A course this large cuts down on other lake usage. MOTION: Moved by Hilgeman, seconded by Koenig that we deny approval of the request for a permit for a retractable slalom course on Bryant Lake for concern about allowing a private citizen preferential use of public water, concem about increased destruction of shoreland, increase in turbidity and it doesn't meet a significant number of ordinance factors in the regulations of structures within the lake. Motion passes 6 - 0. V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS CA. None 7 .. -. ., Approved Minutes Park, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, April 18, 1994 4 VI. OLD BUSINESS A. Deer Study Relo_rt,- Fox briefly read through the 8 Committee recommendations: Planning - page 19, Education - pg 20, Artificial Feeding - page 21, Traffic Safety- page 22, Non-lethal methods-page 23,Non-lethal management options - page 25 , Deer Management-page 26 and Hunting-page 28. Comments were opened to the public. Grayson Tuck - He's had up to 12 deer in his back yard. Urges City to control deer. There's also problems with traffic and deer tick. Hilgeman asked if he's had any damage. Yes, a lot monitarily. Laura Plummel - Like to see the deer. Is report available to read? Fox indicates that it will be. She said some areas could sustain more than the 25 deer recommended. Where are areas that kill will take place? We would probably be going the those areas where more deer could be sustained because of the safety involved in a killing. When it comes to traffic safety, we should be cracking down on the drivers, not the deer. Public needs to protect themselves. When we do a kill, is there a selection process? Who pays for this. If displacement is by development, then maybe we should support a fee to a developer.* With respect to feeding deer, she has a hard time telling people what they can/can't do on their Lown property. Sue Mock - She was on the deer study committee. Thinks the non-lethal/birth control methods should be revisted on a yearly basis and should be used if possible. She prefers sharpshooting over hunting; when deer are hunted, a group of private citizens are involved. We must make sure we aren't shooting a doe and are taking out the weaker ones. She recommends use of a citizens committee to regulate sharp shooting. MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Kracum to approve the Deer Study Committee Report and forward it to the City Council. Some corrrections in the Deer Study Report were stated by Koenig as follows: page 24.D. Second sentence should read "less expensive" and not "less effective". Same correction applies to page 12, Temporary Electric Fence, second sentence. Page 10, second paragraph, first sentence should read "land" instead of "wildlife". With these corrections stated, the Motion passed 6 - 0. B. Qntiioon Agreement for Charlton PronclU - Lambert stated that the agreement has already been signed. MOTION: Moved by Hilgeman seconded by Koenig to recommend approval of the Option Agreement between the City of Eden Prairie and Charlson per staff r request of April 19, 1994. Motion passed 6 - 0. 8 I , Approved Minutes Park, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, April 18, 1994 C. Appoint Housing and Social Services Committee Representative from Parks Recreation and Natural Resources Commission-Cross indicated the need to select one person from this Committee to serve on the Housing and Social Services Study Group. Discussion among the Committe followed with Koenig and Kube- Harderwijk volunteering as member and alternate members. MOTION: Moved by Hilgeman, seconded by Brown that Vicki Koenig be the PRNR Committee Member to be appointed to the Housing and Social Services Study Group and that Joanne Kube-Harderwijk be the alternate. Motion passed 6 - 0. D. Approve Bids for Riley Lake Park Construction - Cross indicated there are 11 bid ranging from $500,140 to $649,000. The lowest dirt removal bid was .87 per square yard. Cross indicated we go with the lowest bidder. Koenig questioned the high bid on the basketball court for the lowest bidder. Cross stated that it was high,but the bottom line is that they're the lowest bidder. Lambert restated points in his memo of 4 - 19 - 94 regrading the Lake Riley Development Funding. MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Hilgeman to recommend the Lake Riley construction bid and for the sanitary sewer connection as proposed. Motion passed 6 - 0. VII. NEW BUSINESS A. Natural Resource Video Screening - Cook introduced the video that she and Terry Kucera developed. The video was viewed. Everyone thought it was a great video. Beautiful pictures. Was hard to hear the voice over the music. Tone the music down. Vill. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Moved by Hilgeman to adjourn at 9:55. Seconded. Respectfully submitted, Bev Draves , Recording Secretary 9 AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, MAY 2, 1994 7:00 P. M. CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL,ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS COMMISSION MEMBERS: Diane Popovich Lynch, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Richard Brown, Claire Hilgeman, Vicki Koenig, David Kracum, Joanne Kube-Harderwijk STUDENT MEMBER: Mark Bremer COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources; Barbara Penning Cross, Landscape Architect; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation Services I. ROLL CALL II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF APRIL 18. 1994 IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. Utter from Paul Becker RE: Elite Team Use of City Facilities V. OLD BUSINESS A. None VI. NEW BUSINESS A. Recommend Awarding Bid for Miller Park Landscape flan VII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF A. Reports of Manager of Parks and Natural_Resources 1. Arbor Day-Resolution ff B. Reports of Manager of Recreation Services 4. . 1. Resolution for Senior Awareness Week w C. Reports of Community Center Manager 1. Rgquest to Transfer Funds Within the 1994 Budget VIII. ADJOURNMENT parkag/Bob60 Ic i 1 •t. '�:, _�",. ...v� ,,.•..... .. ,. ........v r_ _ _ _ _ ..F.^'N%n:lG'Y"I!:bX. ':.4`4'�H-i"o