Parks and Recreation - 03/21/1994 r
1994
MARCH 7 ., 21
MIN- UTES
CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE
AGENDA
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY, MARCH 7, 1994 7:00 P. M. CITY CENTER
8080 MITCHELL ROAD
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Diane Popovich Lynch, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Richard
Brown, Claire Hilgeman, Vicki Koenig, David Kracum,
Joanne Kube-Harderwijk
STUDENT MEMBER: Mark Bremer
COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and i
Natural Resources; Barbara Penning Cross, Landscape
Architect; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural
Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation
Services
I. ROLL CALL - Introduce Vicki Koenig
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF JANUARY 31 & FEBRUARY 7 1994
IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
None
V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
A. Huber Funeral Horne
VI. OLD BUSINESS
A. Philip Hill Property Acquisition Status
VII. NEW BUSINESS i
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A. Wetland Mitigation Pro2gsal
B. Approval of Management Study for Community Center
VIII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF
A. Revorts of Director of Parkg. Recrgation and Natural_ Resources
1. Update on Department Projects
2. Planning_Process for MU 24 Park Referendum
3. Referendum Fact Sheet
IX. ADJOURNMENT
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APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY, MARCH 7, 1994 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Diane Popovich Lynch, Chair; Bruce Bowman,
Richard Brown, Claire Hilgeman, Vicki Koenig,
Joan Kube-Harderwijk, David Kracum
STUDENT MEMBER: Mark Bremer
COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation
and Natural Resources; Barbara Penning Cross,
Landscape Architect
I. ROLL CALL
The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by chair Diane Popovich Lynch. She
introduced new commission member, Vicki Koenig, who was welcomed by the
committee.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Moved by Lambert, seconded by Hilgeman to approve the agenda as
submitted. Motion passed 7 - 0.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - JANUARY 31. 1994
MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Hilgeman to approve the Minutes for
January 31, 1994 meeting as submitted. Motion passed 6 - 0, with 1 abstaining.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES - FEBRUARY 7 1994
MOTION: Moved by Hilgeman, seconded by Bowman with a correction that the
MOTION under VI.A read "We Can Ride" rather than "Week Can Ride". Motion
passed 6 - 0, with 1 abstaining.
IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
None
C V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
A. Huber Funeral Home - Cross introduced Mr. Paul Huber, the proponent of the
funeral home. Mr. Huber requested a reduction of the 50 foot buffer required
between the Douglas-More house and the funeral home. Brown asked if this
reduction was requested so that additional parking spaces could be provided.
Huber stated that a funeral home can always use additional parking and that
they could obtain some more spaces from the buffer reduction. He indicated
that any events held at the Douglas-More house could use the Huber parking
lot. Cross stated that the site is zoned 1-2, and a 50 foot building setback is
required by code. A retaining wall and additional landscaping would be needed
if the reduction of the buffer were approved.
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McGinnis, the General Contractor, indicated that additional parking space
would help with large visitations. Code requires 52 spaces and they will have
56 in the current plan. A reduced buffer would add 23 spaces. They would
landscape the buffer regardless of the depth. It is a lot of land to own and
maintenance which they can't use. He asked for a 25 foot reduction in the
setback. '
Hilgeman asked if she would have a conflict of interest since she is on the
Historical Society and had asked that Huber be denied a request for a funeral
home at this location. Since they are permitted to build, she thinks that a 50
foot buffer isn't too much to ask for given the differences of these two sites and
the need to keep the historic value of the house. 7J
Kracum asked if the city ever grants sideyard variances. Lambert replied, yes;
we need to look at what impact a variance on this site would have on the
Douglas-More house. The Commission could consider a reduction in the total
buffer, parking could be allowed on the back half and retain the 50 foot buffer
on the front half nearest the road. Lambert stated that the setback of natural I
space is needed to give the historic Douglas-More house a feeling of isolation
from parking lots and new development.
Kube-Hardcrwijk stated that she agrees that the funeral home needs additional
parking space. There's no place else to park.
Bowman asked if utilizing the parking across the street (Miller Park) was an
option. Lambert indicated he would not encourage the funeral home to plan on
using the parking lots in Miller Park. City activities may be going on when
funeral parking is needed.
Huber stated that the Planning Commission approved the plan with the 50 foot
buffer. Authorization for the buffer reduction was needed from the Parks,
Recreation & Natural Resource Commission. I
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MOTION: Hilgeman moved to recommend approval of the project based on
Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources supplemental memo and Community
Development imemo which includes a 50 foot buffer strip. Motion passed
5 - 2.
VI. OLD BUSINESS
A. Philip Hill Property Acquisition Status - Lambert stated that the purchase of
two sites were needed for the Riley Lake Park. The Thomas property is
acquired. The Hill property is still needed. Hill property is appraised at
$36,000 and Mr. Hill wants $150,000 for his property.
Lambert further stated that the appraisal value is low because the lot is
unbuildablc without water and sewer and there's a road between the lot and
lake. Sewer can't be added until a lift station is constructed; and would not be
pursued unless the people on the south side of the lake petitioned for it. The
cost of water and sewer is estimated to be $15,000.
Lambert said Mr. Hill is retired and wants a comparable lot on a lake but he
states that he can't find such a lot anywhere in the metro area for under
$200,000. Bob checked some real estate sales and contacted realtors. He
found a lot on Riley Lake that sold for $110,000 a few weeks ago. He
suggested a price of$95,000 to Mr. Hill. $110,000 for a lot, less the $15,000
cost of adding sewer and water to his existing lot. There is another lot for sale
on the west side of Riley Lake with an asking price of$119,000.
Lambert hasn't heard from Hill. Construction is to start June 1 and can't
proceed unless we (City) own the land. Lambert stated that condemnation
should be authorized for a "quick take" of the property so construction can
start. He will continue to negotiate.
MOTION: Moved by Bowman, seconded by Kracum to offer $95,000 for the
Hill property and start the condemnation process. Motion passed unanimously.
Following the motion, Hilgeman indicated she had a problem with condemning
someone's property. Lynch stated that the City has tried to work with Mr. Hill;
and Bowman said he thinks $95,000 was a fair offer for Hill to purchase a
better lot on the same lake as his lot.
V11. NEW BUSINESS
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A. Wetland MWeation Proposal - Don Brauer presented his letter/memo and
answered Commission questions. He explained how mitigation/wetland
banking works and how it was handled in other communities and projects.
(` He indicated that Eden Prairie doesn't have a sizeable piece of land for wetland
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l banking. We could look at our parks and double the size of existing wetlands
within their boundaries or create new wetlands in rural areas with someone else
assigned to take care of it. Finding a 200 - 300 acre farm that was drained and
return it to a wetland would be the least expensive alternative.
Brauer discussed the various bits and pieces of wetland that now exist in Eden
Prairie, such as the property across from Rainbow Food. He refers to these
existing wetland as "potholes" and/or "cesspools" which exist because of the
way we managed the construction of the projects on the land; there isn't any
flowing water or running water off of them. They are unnatural and no longer
viable. The City or Watershed District can't maintain these existing wetlands in
a useful fashion. It's a complicated and expensive method. We should put
together a "bank" to be a useable and beneficial wetland.
Hilgeman asked if Smetana Lake would be suitable for wetland banking.
Brauer indicated it is a floodplain. A dam will be constructed at Golden
Triangle Drive to raise the lake four feet and create an open body of water.
Brauer stated that 100 - 150 acres of farmland are needed to get 50 - 75 acres
of wetland with the right characteristic and to expect about 1/2 of any site to
become suitable wetland.
Bowman asked what the minimum size of a wetland is for it to maintain itself.
Brauer indicated that it's not the size, but the drainage, which must be natural.
Brown indicated that if we don't bank wetlands, then we must preserve what's
left in Eden Prairie. Brauer indicated that none are salvageable. The urban
development in Eden Prairie is mostly completed.
Koening asked if wetlands must be functioning as a marsh before we can fill in
a wetland. Brauer indicated that it must and that a wetland can be brought
back to a functioning status in 6 - 12 months. The quality of the water must be
managed.
MOTION: Moved by Lynch, seconded by Hilgeman to recommend:
1. Eden Prairie should initiate a multi community project to expand the
possibility of establishing a wetland bank of farmland in Eden Prairie or
within the Minnesota River watershed west of Eden Prairie.
2. The Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission play a key
role in participating in the joint project.
3. The Council create a subcommittee in the fal?, of 1994 to work on
wetland issues and to address questions #3, 4 and 5 of Lambert's
February 7, 1994 memo and to determine ways to identify and protect
significant wetlands in Eden Prairie and to determine which wetlands
ff should be allowed to be filled and mitigated.
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C4. Request an independent review of each development project for wetland
issues.
Motion passes 7 - 0
In further discussion, Brown asked if we can do anything to prolong the
existence of some of the "potholes" that now have a 10 year lifespan, Brauer
indicated one way was to control chemical runoff. Brown stated we should ask
for a report on existing wetlands; which ones are dead and which are viable so
we can determine the impact future builders will have on any wetland. Brauer
said that there would be little mitigation on new projects. The ones that exist
are already done and are "cesspools" because we didn't make decisions to
preserve the wetlands at the time of development.
Bowman stated we should try mitigation regardless of cost. Lambert agreed
that if we lose wetland in Eden Prairie, we should try to replace the wetland in
Eden Prairie. We can expand existing wetland by dredging highland; taking
the natural boundary and dredging it out. There isn't a lot of opportunity to
create new wetland in Eden Prairie.
B. Annroval of Management Study for Community Center - Lambert restated
points in his February 28 memo to the Commission and his support of Chuck
Pappas to evaluate the Community Center operation. An initial study would be
done by mid July. Brown asked what records or measurements the Community
Center has now to make a comparison to concerning growth, number of
employees and expenses. They should be keeping a record of what they spend
their time doing and how long it takes. Bob indicated that's exactly what the
Pappas study would do. They are also logging comments from the public, both
negative and positive, in both the office and maintenance areas.
MOTION: Moved by Hilgeman, seconded by Kube-harderwiijk to approve
the recommendation of Chuck Pappas to do the management study for the
Community Center. Motion passed unanimously.
In further discussion, Brown asked if the staff gets along or is there bickering?
Lambert indicated that there is some tension between different groups on
occassion. Brown requested that staff not be put in a position to be fired but to
ask them to write what they like and don't like about their jobs. If there's a
need for training, does Mr. Pappas provide it? What can the study be
compared to?
Lambert indicated that an opportunity for improvement and change exists. No
study was done when the new ice arena was built; they didn't add staff or make
any change in staff hours. Staff does have difference of opinions on what
changes should be and Chuck Pappas could help with these desicions.
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VIII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF
A. Renogs of Director of Parks Recreation and Natural Resources - Lambert
indicated his status report for concurrent projects was attached to the agenda
for their information.
B. May 24 Land Preservation Referendum - Lambert indicated that by mid April
the City would present a factual flyer to the Commission for review. There
would also be a factual video that could be used by the "Yes Vote" committee.
IX. ADJOURNMENT
Respectfully submitted,
Bev Draves
Recording Secretary
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C AGENDA
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY, MARCH 21, 1994 7:00 P. M. CITY CENTER
8080 MITCHELI.ROAD
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Diane Popovich Lynch, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Richard
Brown, Claire Hilgeman, Vicki Koenig, David Kracum,
Joanne Kube-Harderwijk
STUDENT MEMBER: Mark Bremer
COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and
Natural Resources; Barbara Penning Cross, Landscape
Architect; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural
Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation
Services
I. ROLL CALL
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF MARCH 7. 1994
IV. PETITIONS. REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
A. Soccer Association Request
V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
A. Purgatory Creek Estates
VI. OLD BUSINESS
None
VII. NEW BUSINESS
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A. Change Order #2 HVAC System Community Center Swimming Pool
VIII. ADJOURNMENT
parkag/Bob60
APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY, MARCH 21, 1994 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Diane Popovich Lynch, Chair; Bruce Bowman,
Richard Brown, Claire Hilgeman, Vicki Koenig,
Joanne Kube-Harderwijk
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: David Kracurn
STUDENT MEMBER: Mark Bremer
COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation
and Natural Resources; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of
Parks and Natural Resources
1. ROLL CALL
The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by chair Diane Popovich Lynch.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Approved as presented.
II1. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - March 7 1994
Moved by Koenig, seconded by Bowman with correction to VI.A. paragraph 3 to read
$119,000 rather than $119.00 and VI.A. MOTION should read Hilgeman rather than
Hilceman.
IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
A. Soccer Association Request - Fox indicated that the Soccer Association had two
requests concerning the Flying Cloud Fields; they want to donate money for
additional parking spaces and request the City improve the entrance to the field
for safety reasons.
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Fox briefly talked about the history of these soccer fields as outlined in his memo
of March 17, 1994 to the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission.
Lambert introduced Don Jacobson, President of the Eden Prairie Soccer
Association. Don immediately opened his presentation for questions from the
Commission. Brown asked why additional fields were necessary. Jacobson
indicated that a U-5 age group was added and would play on Friday evenings.
They predicted 120 U-6 children would register and actually received 190
registrations. They predicted 100 U-5 children would register and received 124
registrations. Additional parking is needed to accommodate the usage at the 22
fields.
Hilgeman asked why lower the age level to allow more kids to play when we
already have a problem with the existing number of players? Jacobson indicated
it was because of pressure from Eden Prairie residents wanting their children in
the soccer program. He said they will play 5 nights instead of 4 and may have
to go to Saturdays and limit time on the fields. Don indicated that they aren't
asking for additional soccer fields but to upgrade the current parking facilities.
Brown asked Fox if there was ample space at Staring Lake for soccer parking.
Fox said, because of other activities, we aren't recommending that Staring Lake
be used for Soccer parking.
Bowman said he thinks we need to encourage everyone who wants to play to be
able to do so. He supports getting as many kids out to play as want to.
Jacobson indicated there are 16 weeks of soccer divided between Spring and Fall
sessions. Volunteers do all the organizing and adding more time is really
stretching and making a demand on their time. Fox indicated that we are at the
maximum with 22 fields at Flying Cloud, and it's up to the Association to get
more creative in how they handle time on the fields.
Lambert said Flying Cloud was designed for 7 soccer fields; we now have 22 and
additional parking has never been added. He said the Soccer Association must
make better use of time on the fields. They can used Friday and Saturday and
limit team time on the fields for each team. We need to make the best use
possible of the facilities we have. A fall meeting with the Soccer, Football,
Softball and Baseball Associations is planned to determine how Miller Park may
alleviate any of the Flying Cloud Field problems.
r, Lambert stated that the City has standards for parking spaces per field, but we
have overlooked those standards at Flying Cloud as we have tried to accommodate
program growth. The Soccer Association comes to the City after registration and
tell us how may kids they have to accommodate and they want to accommodate
them by adding fields (making existing fields smaller) without thinking about
parking availability, etc. Lambert suggested that the younger players, perhaps all
ages under S, be limited to one hour of practice to get two uses on each field per
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night.
Bowman indicated that it's a dangerous situation; there are just too many cars at _
Flying Cloud and somebody is going to get hurt. The City needs to establish
some sort of policy concerning field usage and the Associations and City need to
work together.
MOTION: Moved by Kube-Harderwijk, seconded by Hilgeman to approve
pavement of the entrance and to accept donated funds to expand the parking area
and for staff to work with the Soccer Association and other Associations to
establish facilities. Motion passed 7 - 0.
V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
A. Purg,atoy Creek-Estates - The Developer didn't come to the meeting. The
developer is purposing a 7 lot subdivision. The Planning Commission
recommended denial of the 7 lot subdivision. They are uncomfortable with the
developer filling in the wetland. They would approve a 5 lot subdivision. The
Parks, Recreation and Natural Resource Department recommends approval since
the developer has complied with all ordinances. Meeting was opened to questions
and concerns from the audience.
Scott Wallace presented letters of denial from the Minnesota Pollution Control
Agency and other government agencies. Areas of concern were: .17 acres of fill,
2 lots directly on the floodplain, lots in the Conservancy Area where wildlife and
humans are "thrown" together. He would support a 5 lot subdivision that would
not impact on the wetland, floodplain or Conservancy Area.
Gcrard Wersal voiced concern that the Developer didn't have approval from the
Corps of Engineers. The Developer has done a lot of filling already and the City
hasn't done anything about it. If the water level is raised 6 inches, it will go onto
his property. There's also the safety issue with traffic. Creekwood Park has only
6 - 8 parking spaces, Cars park on Sunnybrook Road when these spaces fill.
They may end up parking in the Cu-de-sac.
Dick Johnson thinks the Developer's offer of outlot A to the City for concessions
was a bad trade. Lambert indicated that no concessions were made due to the
offer to give the City ownership of Outlot A.
Lovcnc Russell's concern was with loss of wetlands. The City shouldn't allow any
more wetlands to be filled unless necessary. What will happen to the mitigation
area by her house? She thinks her gardens will flood if the Developer is permitted
to go ahead with his proposed plan.
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Ray Smith said the developer doesn't take care of his property now. How will he
take care of the developed property. The Developer has little concern for his
neighbors.
Lambert indicated that the City wasn't going through with the plan for the new
parking lot at Creekwood Park since no organized teams would play at Creekwood
Park after Miller Park is opened. Majority of the people would walk to their
neighborhood park and 8 -9 parking spaces would be enough to accommodate the
park traffic.
Hilgeman voiced concern with building lots 3, 4 and 5 across the Conservancy
Area which is a "no build zone", and the Developer's gift of Outlot A is useless
to the City. Lambert stated that the City doesn't look at the donation of Outlot A
as a concession to approve anything we wouldn't otherwise allow. It is beneficial
and desirable for the City to own Outlot A. Hilgeman said the City loses its
credibility when we attempt to approve a 1.95 million dollar Natural Resources
Referendum and then recommend approval of habitat loss. This is the worst
development proposal she has seen in 2 years. Lambert further stated that
Purgatory Creek is a study and can't be used as a reason to deny property
development. The Conservancy line isn't a "no build zone" by ordinance.
Commission members closing comments were as follows:
Hilgeman would deny approval for the Developer to build; Koenig said she was
uncomfortable with a development this close to a floodplain and .4 acres of
wetland fill, she'd vote "no". Kube-Harderwijk indicated the pond and creek level
seemed to be the same. NURP ponds aren't normally allowed within a floodplain;
Brown asked if Developer agreed to build 5 homes, would they be more
expensive homes so that he would come out financially the same as if he were
building 7 homes. Lambert responded that the Commission must limit its rationale
to natural resource issues. Popovich Lynch was concerned with the integrity of the
developer and his unwillingness to work with neighbors or correct the existing
illegal fill.
MOTION: Moved by Kubc-Harderwijk, seconded by Brown to deny the
Developer's request because: 1. NURP pond is within the floodplain. 2. Filling
of wetland and 3. Concerns about further encroachment based on past
performance of property owner. Motion passed 7 - 0.
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VI. OLD BUSINESS
A. Nonc
r VII. NEW BUSINESS
A, Ghee Order#2 HVAC System Community Center_Swimmina Pool - Lambert
said the refrigeration valve has already been installed. He made the decision in
December 1993 to go ahead with the installation based in the fact that if
refrigeration was shut down for more than 2 or 3 days, ice would be lost on both
rinks. With ice rental at $200 per hour(both rinks),they couldn't take the chance
of losing ice for more than a few hours.
The new ventilation isn't working satisfactorily yet. The contractor has been asked
to correct the problem.
MOTION: Moved by Brown, seconded by Hilgeman to approve the addition of
the refrigeration valve to the heat recovery exchangers. Motion passed
7 - 0.
B. Rgpl mgnnt of Pat Richards on the Lawn Chemical Regulation Committee -
Kube-Harderwijk wondered if Pat Richards should be replaced on this committee.
Koenig volunteered to take his place.
MOTION: Moved by Hilgeman, seconded by Popovich to have Vicki Koenig
replace Pat Richards on the Lawn Chemical Regulations Committee.
VIII. ADJOURNMENT
Respectfully submitted,
Bev Draves
Recording Secretary
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