Loading...
Parks and Recreation - 03/15/1993 1993 MARCH 1 ., 15 MINUTES CITY OF EDEN P-R-AIRIE ,�.�,. . .,�- ., ..:, .,.•.�� ,. :,. , ,., .r: ., -a- �,,:.�.. j..,..,.. x, is .. .• .. ... '. ..Yam.. AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMSSION MONDAY, MARCH 1, 1993 7:30 P.M., CITY HALL COMMISSION MEMBERS: Pat Richard, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Richard Brown, Claire Hilgeman, Joanne Kube-Harderwijk, Adam Harju, David Kracum, Diane Popovich Lynch, Thomas Marcus, 1 COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and 1 Natural Resources; Barbara Penning Cross, Landscape Architect; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation Services I. ROLL CALL A. Introduce Richard Brown IL APPROVAL OF AGENDA III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - FEBRUARY 1. 1993 IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. Area II S=ial Olympics Reruest to Use Swimming Poo V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS A. Tech Nine Proposal 1 B. High School Expansion Proposal C. Freeberg/Perkins/Feltl Addition j D. St. Andrew Lutheran Church E. Normandy Crest F. Carmody Subdivision VI. OLD BUSINESS VII. NEW BUSINESS A. Proposed Revisions to Floodglain ReReg ula ions B. School District Lease of Community C nter Locker Room C. Election of Commission Chair and Vice-Chair for 1993-199d_ 1 D. Recommendation to Award Bid for Miller Park Construction VIR. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF I . A. g%=s of Manager of Recreation Services 1. Eden Prairie Community-Center Grand QMning B. ge2grts of Community Center Manager 1. Pool Ventilation System at IX. ADJOURNMENT I parkag/1 r i t I I I � . TO iw APPROVED MINUTES PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Monday, March 1, 1993 7:30 p.m., City Hall 7600 Executive Drive COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT:, Pat Richard, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Richard Brown, Claire Hilgeman, Joanne Kube- Harderwijk, Adam Harju, David Kracum, Diane Popovich Lynch, Thomas Marcus COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: None COMMITTEE STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources, and _:_ Barbara Penning Cross, Landscape Architect I. ROLL CALL The meeting was called to order at 7:31 p.m. by Chair, Pat Richard. A. Introduce Richard Brown Lambert introduced Dick Brown as a new member of the Commission. Brown has been a two-year resident of Eden Prairie. Prior to that he worked for Dale Carnegie and was active in the Montana Senior Citizen State Board. Lambert indicated that Brown will be a very positive addition to the Committee. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA No changes. Ill. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Hilgeman asked that language be included at Paragraph 8 on Page 3 that she had indicated she would like a discussion of variances to take place at a future Committee meeting. MOTION: Lynch moved to approve the minutes as corrected. Kube-Harderwijk seconded. Motion passed 7-0. Approved Minutes =>i Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 1, 1993 Cross commented that there are only two boards that can grant variances- the Board of Appeals and the City Council, and indicated that a joint meeting between the Commission and the Board of Appeals could be held to discuss variances. IV. PETITIONS. REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. Area II Special Olympics Request to Use Swimming Pool Lambert stated that the matter was before the Commission because the pool would be used during what would normally be open pool time and the City had made a commitment not to schedule out the public swimming unless approved w , by the Commission. He reviewed the February 23, 1993, memorandum from Elyce Kastigar relating to this request. Lambert indicated that he felt it would be a worthwhile program since the pool is not in heavy use during the times it would be needed, and the request is for a one-time use of the pool. MOTION: Richard moved to recommend approval of the Staff recommendation for rental of the Community Center Pool and meeting room for a one-time event to allow the Area II Special Olympics swim meet with the changes in lap time and swim time per Staff memorandum dated February 23, 1993. Motion seconded by Hilgeman, and passed 7-0. V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS A. Tech Nine ProQos_al Cross explained the Tech Nine project. It was approved as part of a PUD in 1985 and there was 50% tree loss, which was standard at that time. The tree ordinance was imposed in 1985, and it is not possible to put all the required trees at this site. The project is looking to dedicate Outlot B, which is 7.4 acres, as mitigation to tree replacement. The memos are somewhat ambiguous, but the plan does meet the shoreline ordinance. Brown asked if the plan takes water pollution and other problems into consideration and if it meets all requirements. Cross explained that a NURP pond is not required and that storm water will drain into a sedimentation pond ;. as part of the PUD. She explained that this was a large PUD and it is in the 19th phase of the project, that trees have been replaced in all other phases and E 2 - _ - -:,• / <' r Approved Minutes l Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 1, 1993 there isn't enough space to put in the additional trees, so they would be dedicating the flood plain instead. Richard asked if we are benefiting if nothing can be done with the flood plain anyway. Lambert responded that it would be a benefit, that it is hard to determine if the tree loss is worth 7.4 acres. Lambert indicated that the Park Commission might want to recommend requiring the rest of the flood plain by trying to get a commitment that when other land is developed in a different PUD, that additional land would be dedicated. Cross commented that land has been promised, and language could be put in regarding it. Lambert commented that the land is especially valuable because of the Smetana Lake improvement project. The City would be required to buy the rights for that project if it isn't dedicated. In response to Brown's query as to how may additional acres could be dedicated, Cross stated 7.4 acres would be dedicated now and 9.6 acres could be dedicated as part of a future development. Cross indicated that there is a verbal agreement as to the 9.6 acres. Cross explained that this would be a dedication, as opposed to a gift, but not in lieu of park fees. Brown asked if it would be reasonable to get an agreement on the 9.6 acres, and Lambert stated that is something Mike Franzen has been working on. Lambert indicated that a recommendation could be made. Richard asked if the developer could replace the trees around a nearby park instead. Lambert commented that that had previously been done by a developer in Windom Knoll Park. Lambert stated it could be done if the park is already in place. Cross indicated that there is a legal question as to whether replacing trees in a park rather than on the lot would serve as replacement. MOTION: Brown moved to recommend approval of the Tech Nine Proposal subject to the condition that in the opinion of the Planning Commission dedication of the entire flood plan would be an acceptable exchange for the 1,000 cubic inches of trees, that 7.4 acres would be dedicated currently, and the remaining acres dedicated at a future date. Motion seconded by Kube-Harderwijk, and passed 7-0. 3 ...- ... - .. Approved Minutes �. Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 1, 1993 B. High School Expansion Proposal Kathy Wallace explained the project. It will be a 40,800 square foot addition to the school involving two three-story additions. The West Addition would include 6 classrooms, a new loading dock, an enclosed dumpster and a maintenance area; the East Addition would have 17 classrooms, departmental space, and storage. The project will include some minor site work, a change in traffic pattern (buses will go in front of the school and cars will loop around to park), and lights will be put in along the path to the community center. The additions will be 50 feet high. The penthouse for mechanical equipment will be 2 feet higher. In response to Richard's question regarding the color of the brick, Wallace indicated that they will try to keep the colors in the same spirit as the school has now; there will be some light and some dark brick. Richard expressed dismay at the decision to continue the use of light brick. Wallace stated that there should be no problem with landscaping. Cross commented that this is a very straightforward project; they just wanted the Parks Commission to see what it would look like. Marcus asked if the plan included taking the existing exit out, and Wallace stated that the exit would become a 2-way road. Wallace was unsure whether it would be used as a one-way road for exiting after games. She indicated that the primary traffic block after games is at the stop signs, not on the road from the parking lot. In response to Brown's question as to whether officers are on duty after games, Lambert responded that they are, and that he felt two exit lanes after games are needed. Richard asked if there were any plans to expand parking. Wallace and Lambert explained that there is no way to expand parking without losing other facilities. MOTION: Lynch moved to recommend approval of the Independent School District 272 plan for the Eden Prairie High School Addition as per Staff recommendations of January 22, 1993. Motion seconded by Brown, and passed 7-0. f i 4 f -. .__.. .... .. .. ..,..• __. .�. �' ` _,..nl J..td..gt,.):'li:) u.MY ct.rwv+uvm ,T a Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 1, 1993 C. Freeberg/Perkins/Feltl Addition r. Cross explained the project and introduced Mrs. Freeberg. Mrs. Freeberg then explained that the project was approved several years ago, but was never filed. The City recently asked them to make some changes to the plans. The current plan has a couple of things different from first plan; the septic tank will be moved away from the lake, an old building near the lake will be torn down, and the house that will someday be built on the third lot can be built farther away from the lake. Cross explained that in the current plan, the lot lines will be going in a more north/south direction and the building will be taken off the top of the property making it less visible. Cross also explained the process the original plan had gone through of being denied by the Board of Appeals and that the City Council later waived the variances. Cross indicated the project could get a permit now, but the current plan is better than the existing plan. Cross indicated that there would be a 20% tree loss, and that the trees would be replaced. Hilgeman asked for clarification of the amount of tree loss, stating that the May 19, 1989, memo indicated a 41% tree loss. Cross explained i' that this is the first time the trees have been counted and that the 20% figure is accurate. Hilgeman commented that the current plan isn't a great plan, but that it is a better plan that the original plan, which they could go ahead with if they wanted to. Cross stated that the Staff agrees the second plan is the better plan. Brown commented that this situation is a great example of the inability to understand the rhyme or reason of variance allowances, and indicated that he also would like to have variances discussed in the future. Mrs. Freeberg stated that she felt the City has a great staff looking out for them because the City Staff encouraged them to make the changes. Lynch indicated that the Park Commission's role is to ask some of the tough questions the City Staff can't ask and Richard explained the problem the Commission has been having with variances to ordinances. 5 w Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 1, 1993 MOTION: Hilgeman moved to recommend approval Freeberg/Perkins/Felt)Addition plan as per Staff recommendations of February 19, 1993. Lynch seconded and motion passed 7.0. As a postscript, Hilgeman stated that the Commission notes that this project , has more than 10 shoreline variances. is D. St. Andrew Lutheran Church Cross explained that the St. Andrew Lutheran Church is a 85,000 square foot " church on 4.8 acres next to Purgatory Creek. This quire two variances - one for height and one to allow shared parkingewithct eMTSs project does meet the minimum setback requirements, will have a The connecting the church to the existing sidewalk on Technology Drive, an will walk meet NURP standards. Lynch asked if the project will overlap the wetland area because of the church entrance, and Cross indicated that it will overlap. Richard asked if it is possible to require or at least encourage additional landscaping because of the landscaped Purgatory Creek water conservation area. Lambert responded that the City can't require more than the ordinance requires. The City could review the church's landscape plan with them to see what their plans are. Richard stated that he would like to suggest the church have a program where a landscape memorial is set up with donated memorials. Lambert commented that the City can only encourage that type of a landscape program and suggest types of landscape materials, and that he felt it would be inappropriate to change the landscape ordinance because of the church plan. Cross stated that the City could require that trees be planted on berms. Kracum commented that what he felt Richard was suggesting was recommending a subtle change from the church to the Purgatory Creek area, Lambert explained that the northern end of the Purgatory Creek conservation anon area is not going to be all natural; it will have very formal landscaping, and there will be formal landscaping along Technology Drive, between the church i and the Purgatory Creek recreation area. 6 Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 1, 1993 Lambert commented that since Technology Drive a direct line between the Government e t Center and the downtown area, the City could ask developers in that area to have their landscape plans t,ie into the landscaping plan along Technology Drive. A discussion was held regarding the height of the church and whether variances will be granted to other developers in that area. MOTION: Lynch moved to recommend approval of the St. Andrew Lutheran Church proposal per Staff recommendations of February 19, 1993 and with the suggestion that Staff works with the church "^) regarding landscaping. Hilgeman seconded and motion passed 7-0. Brown asked if the first row of parking would be removed and Cross responded that it would. E. Normandy Crest i Cross reviewed and explained the February 19, 1993, memorandum. A sidewalk from a driveway to Franlo Road Park has a 10 foot easement instead ; of a 40 foot outlot, which is not up to current standard. Richard asked if the Staff is uneasy about this matter, and Lambert responded that they know it is going to be a problem in the future. The City would like the Commission to point out to the developer that the garage side of the house should be put on the trail side of the property and suggest the developer put in landscaping to screen the trail from the lot. a Lynch asked if there had ever been a case where the City requested the developer and selling agent to sign a document indicating knowledge of the situation, and Cross stated that it is usually the second or third owner that has a problem. MOTION: Brown moved to recommend approval of the Staff recommendation on Normandy Crest to advise developers about the trail's location and the Normandy Crest Subdivision request. I r Lynch seconded and motion passed 7-0. ;i 7 J Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 1, 1993 F. Carmody Subdivision Cross explained that this is a PUD for multiple family units. Dan Blake from Centex reviewed the development plans. Centex is proposing 184 two-story townhome units on 27 acres. They have agreed to dedicate 6.87 acres as parkland in lieu of park fees, and have an area for a small parking lot, either as an easement or dedication; to the City. There will be a 4% tree loss and a lot of landscaping in the transition area from single family homes to r the townhomes. A discussion followed regarding the collective ponds, run off and build up over the years, and Lambert stated that City Engineering has accepted these plans, and the Watershed District must approve them prior to final approval. Kube-Harderwijk questioned what the houses would be sold for, and Blake stated his guess would be mid-$60,000 to low-$70,000 for the smaller units, and approximately $90,000 for the larger units. This project is very much geared toward first time home buyers. In response to Brown's question regarding the one exit to Anderson Parkway, Blake responded that the neighbors are somewhat concerned about traffic in that area, but the City has assured him that the site is not going to have a significant impact on traffic. 400 units would be allowed on this site, but they ' are proposing only 184 units. Lambert commented that there will actually be two exits from the project, and Blake confirmed that there would be an exit to Anderson Parkway and another street connecting to Chestnut, and indicated that the City Staff will be preparing additional information on the streets. Blake also confirmed that a sidewalk will connect to the Anderson Lakes Parkway sidewalk. Richard raised a question regarding the parking lot. Lambert explained that the majority of people coming into Purgatory Creek Conservation Area will be pedestrian, that those people driving to the trail would have a six-car parking lot and on-street parking on Chestnut Trail, and that the parking lot will have trail connection to the Purgatory Creek trail. Lambert commented that this is the first time land would be taken in lieu of I park fees. Carmody has also indicated they will, at some time in the future, i gift additional land to the City as part of the Purgatory Creek area. This is not 8 I .,—. ;.,.'. ti.S1 .., ......::.. .,:...�:i` .. .:S:e.. .}.a. .. :,�?c .,.._.....;. . .c.. ..,.. .l.:c�':1. . _...._.,.... ... .,t.,:,..V.._•..ie_...o.rx..m..i..:....Y....... j. 4. • Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 1, 1993 a requirement, but the creek valley and oak knoll areas would be a great addition to the Purgatory Creek Conservation Area and worth much more than the park fees. MOTION: Kracum moved to recommend approval of the Carmody Village subdivision as per Planning Staff recommendations of February 18, 1993, as supplemented by the Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission recommendation of February 26, 1993. >h Yi Motion seconded by Kube-Harderwijk an passed 7-0. VI. OLD BUSINESS None. VII. NEW BUSINESS A. Prog sed Revisions to Floodplain Regulations Cross reviewed the memorandum of February 17, 1993, regarding revisions to the Flood Plains Regulation and indicated it is an overall restructuring of the format. MOTION: Hilgeman moved to recommend approval of the Flood Plains Revisions to the City Council. ' Motion seconded by Richard and passed 7-0. s B. School District Lease of Community Center Lock Room Lambert reviewed and summarized the February 19, 1993, memorandum and lease agreement. Kracum indicated it is a well written lease. Motion: Richard moved to recommend approval of the School District Lease Agreement for the Community Center Locker Room. {i Hilgeman seconded and motion passed 7-0. 9 �' �, r - w A . .. ... ,. .v nY'.. .. .:-.. ...-._. .,_ i._. ..,..._ i. ..,. Y.._.... ! . ...._... ... __.�... ... ...:...IYA.'!Y. ..M._n-aAi s... Approved Minutes .. l. Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 1, 1993 C. Election of Commission Chair and Vice-Chair for 1993-1994 Richard stated that he wanted to commend everyone on their excellent attendance and great job over the past year. MOTION: Hilgeman moved to nominate Pat Richard as Commission Chair and Diane Popovich Lynch as Vice-Chair for the Eden Prairie Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission for 1993- 1994. Motion seconded by Brown and passed 7-0. D. Recommendation to Award Bid for Miller Park Construction Cross explained that bids had opened at 2:00 p.m. on March 1, 1993, and that the City had received 11 sealed bids. Cross provided a breakdown of the bids received and project costs to the Committee members, and indicated that the low bid was received from Richard Knutson, Inc. 3 Lambert explained that if, at the end of the project, the City is ahead by $109,000, as the breakdown indicates, the City will probably consider } constructing one of the buildings at Miller Park. Cross explained that the ground needs to be seeded by August 1 and that they will be getting schedules from the contractors. She stated that our experience with Richard Knutson, Inc. has been good. MOTION: Lynch moved to recommend approval of the contract award for Miller Park to Richard Knutson, Inc. based on the bid amount presented on March 1, 1993. Brown seconded and motion passed 7-0. VII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF i 1 A. Reports of Manager of Recreation Services 1 . Eden Prairie Community Center Grand O ep_nina The Commission commended Laurie Helling on the great job in preparing the grand opening of the Eden Prairie Community Center. 10 i � Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 1, 1993 B. Rel?orts of Community Center Manager 1. Pool Ventilation System Update Lambert explained that there have been a number of complaints from competitive swimmers that they are taking in high chlorine-contained air at the pool and that steps need to be taken to improve the air handling system at the pool, which is not providing enough fresh air in the pool room. Lambert indicated that Johnson Controls believes that with some adjustments in the existing system and by overriding the controls,-the air could be improved by up to 50%. Two blower fans would be installed to move the air in the pool area, and the air temperature would be kept at 2 degrees higher than water temperature. Lambert explained that the air temperature is normally kept at 2 degrees lower than the pool temperature for the comfort of spectators at the pool. Lambert explained that raising the air temperature will take the chlorine off the surface of the water quicker and the air at the top of the pool won't be as saturated with chlorine. Lambert indicated that the City would like to try these steps for 30 days and see if it helps. ' Lambert indicated that if those steps are not effective, the next step is to upgrade the air handling system by adding air conditioning for $30,000. Lambert explained that during high humidity days in the summer (6 to 12 days), the moisture content in the air is so high that the situation won't improve unless the inside air is dehumidified. The next step would involve replacing the existing system with a larger air handling system, which is an $80,000 correction. Lambert believes that if we rely on the opinions of the users of the pool, there will never be a perfect condition. He believes the City needs a scientific assessment of the situation to judge the improvement. Hilgeman stated that she doesn't feel it's worth $80,000 to correct a problem that affects people for 12 days out of the summer when most people are swimming outside anyway. Lambert explained that the problem has existed for several years and that the City Council will have to determine if there is money to spend 11 t i ,r Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 1, 1993 to correct the problem, that the Staff understands there is a problem and wants to do something to correct the situation, and would like to take the steps mentioned previously to see how effective the current system could be, before spending money to change the system. Claudia Boysen, 18096 Liv Lane, an eight-year resident of Eden Prairie, commented that her children swim competitively on a girls high school swim team, and that the problems exist year round, beginning in April or May. As an observer, she has noticed the chlorine odor, and explained that the odor is from chloramines (chlorine mixing with ammonia). Ms. Boysen indicated the children have suffered eye and skin irritation, chest pain, and burning sensation in the lungs well after swimming. One of her daughters has had chronic ear infections and the doctor feels it may be to do with the consistent irritation of her lung tissue and sinuses from the pool air. Ms. Boysen has also seen other girls have asthma attacks which is very frightening. Ms. Boysen stated that this is not a new problem, that the problem is worse when there more swimmers in the water. Ms. Boysen also stated that she knew the Hennepin County Health Department has made visits to the pool and found it substandard. f Dave Black stated that the pool is run under the guidelines of the State Health Department and has never been asked to close. Jane Nayes commented that the guidelines are old and that the maximum chlorine level should be .5 ppm. She stated that the pool is sometimes run at 4 and that the EPA lists chlorine as a respiratory and eye irritant. She felt that as a Foxjet parent renting the pool at almost $2,000 a month (which she indicated is 2-3 times higher than any other swimming team in this state pays), they ought to at least be given a proper pool to use. The resident indicated that the air exchange in the pool area is about once an hour, and should be four to five times an hour. Black explained that the air dampers on the current system are restricted because the outside air is more humid, that the dampers open up more in spring when the outside air is less humid, and that Johnson Controls' recommendation is to override the dampers and bring in more outside air, and add extra turbo fans to move the air across the top of the water. Marion Peterson of 8977 Noble Court stated that they plug in fans and open the doors to let in more air, and her suggestion is to lower the pool water temperature. She doesn't feel the City has worked with them. 12 R . .. Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 1, 1993 Black commented that he has been working with the Foxjets and the Health Department, and stated that the Health Department frowns on opening doors since the greatest liability of the pool is drowning and opening exit doors invites others in. In response to Lynch's question as to which of the three options the Foxjets supported, Black stated the Foxjets have questions as to each one. Black also noted that the pool serves both recreational and competitive users and they are trying to come up with a reasonable solution for all people involved. He stated that experts in the field say to dissipate the chlorines by keeping the air at 2 degrees above pool temperature, which will take care of odor and also increase air movement in room. Gary Roethle, President of the Foxjets, 8934 Victoria Drive, stated that with regard to Black's first step involving moving the air by the use of fans, the fans should be located in a safe area so they can't be plugged in by just anybody. He indicated that he has reservations about just raising the air temperature and moving the air with fans because the coaches are in environment for 6 hours a day and he has concerns for their exposure, and he feels that solution is not addressing the real problem. He feels the first option should show some improvement, but is not the solution because it doesn't bring in the right kind of air. He thinks it is reasonable that there is some money that could be spent on the pool since there is money being spent on maintaining the trails, etc. Bowman commented on the discrepancy between chlorine levels and indicated he would like to review what the records show regarding chlorine levels for the last several months and compare those records with the State's guideline. Black indicated that the Health Department had put the pool on a program to super chlorinate the pool ("shock your pool" with 10 times the normal amount of chlorine), which lifts the chlorine out of pool until it reaches break point. The pool was super chlorinated monthly until last year and is now super chlorinated weekly. He surveyed 10 other pools and determined that the Eden Prairie pool is super chlorinated as often or more often that the 10 other pools. Black stated that super chlorinating improves the air quality for probably three to four days. A resident commented that at least two organizations have said that the 13 • Approved Minutes . Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 1, 1993 most effective way to reduce chlorine is to reduce heat in the water. Hiigeman commented in response that reducing the temperature of the pool water would cause the pool to be too cool for the younger and non- competitive swimmers. Tad Hauck, 17928 Lawrence Way, Head Coach of Foxjets, commented that he spends 5-6 hours in the pool per day and that the number of bad days in pool has been increasing. He stated that opening the doors to y the arena, the lobby and the fenced-in wading pool area cleaned the air to an acceptable level. He indicated that whatever proposal would result in that kind of air exchange would be best. Lambert commented that lowering the temperature of the water had resulted in many complaints from kids in swimming lessons. He also indicated that they were told to never to open the doors between the rink and the pool because it caused major problems with the air handling system, attempting to balance the air between the pool, the ice arena, the meeting rooms and racquetball courts. In response to Brown's question regarding the number of fans to be installed, Black stated there would be two turbo fans place where the ' wouldn't be a danger to pool users or spectators. MOTION: Lynch moved to recommend that the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission: 1. support the Staff recommendation for Option 1 for the next 60 days 2. -encourage the Foxjets to confer regularly with Black 3. that at the May meeting, Staff bring statistics regarding the monitoring of the system, Health Department guidelines, and a comparison with other community swimming pools and clubs to make a final recommendation on Options 2 and 3. Motion seconded by Bowman and passed 7-0. Bowman commented that the City may also have to consider shutting the pool down at times. i 14 ,. , ; ..i, ' ,.. �. ,, . - � ..hf`—��:.•Lw `FA,aria...f.j, .. q q •`{ � r r1 err �l', ' ... _. ._.........n:.>l 1R'Z:.iki•!'NHsfuua.w.uwn,w..��.. "j Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission ' Monday, March 1, 1993 Kracum stated that with regard to medical conditions, he would like to review information on the range of health problems. Richard asked if there are possibly too many people in the pool during competitions, and Lambert responded that the numbers don't come close to the occupancy levels. Black indicated that his staff charts the everyday readings of the pool, and that he will put together information for the Commission to review regarding those readings. Black also stated that he has a working relationship with the Foxjets and is always in communication with them and they are working together for a resolution of the problem. IX. ADJOURNMENT �y The meeting was adjourned at 10:20 p.m. by Chair, Pat Richard. r'. Respectfully submitted, Susan Forster Recording Secretary r t' 15 ,f 1 � .� � .., . � ., o. 7, I AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, MARCH 15, 1993 7:30 P.M., CITY HALL COMMISSION MEMBERS: Pat Richard, Chair; Bruce Bowm�m, Richard Brown, Claire Hilgeman, Joanne Kube-Harderwijk, Adam Harju, David Kracum, Diane Popovich Lynch, Thomas Marcus, COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources; Barbara Penning Cross, Landscape Architect; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation Services 1 I. ROLL CALL A. Introduce Richard Brown II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - MARCH 1. 1993 IV. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS A. Village Knplls 2nd Addition V. OLD BUSINESS A. Swimming Pool Information B. Neighborhood Lark Acquisition Schedule U2date VI. NEW BUSINESS A. Chanee Order #5 Eden Prairie Community Center Ice Arena Addition VII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF A. Re2grts of Manager of Director of Parks. Rg&reation and Natural_ Resources 1, Discussion on Variances - Jean Johnson. Staff Liaison to Board of 2. Review Final Report on 1992 City Survey - Chaoter 5, Development Issues and Chanter 6. Park and RecMation Issues i PRNRC- Agenda March 15, 1993 Page 2 3. List of Natural Resources Study Committee Members and Letter to PropM Owners Explaining Committee Purpose 4 Fetters Regarding Trapping Ordinance B. Reports of Manager of Recreation Services 1. Circle of Seasons - Outdoor Center Monthly Reports (Feb &Mar) C. Reports of Community Center Otterations Mana= 1. UlNoming Projects VHI. ADJOURNMENT parkag/1 2 I i J • i i c APPROVED MINUTES PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION i Monday, March 15, 1993 7:30 p.m. , City Hall 7600 Executive Drive COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Pat Richard, Chair, Bruce Bowman, Richard Brown, Claire Hilgeman, Joanne Kube-Harderwijk, Diane Popovich Lynch, Thomas Marcus COk1MISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Adam Harju, David Kracum COMMITTEE STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources, and Barbara Penning Cross, Landscape Architect I. ROLL CALL The meeting was called to order at 7:35 p.m. by Chair, Pat Richard. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA No changes. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - MARCH 1, 1993 MOTION: Lynch moved to approve the minutes of the March 1, 1993, meeting. Motion seconded by Kube-Harderwijk. Motion passed 6-0. IV. •DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS A. Village Knolls 2nd Addition Cross explained the project and introduced Jeff Lindgren from Hedlund Associates. Lindgren explained the proposal to remove one lot and the proposed realignment of trail and said that the City Staff had indicated they might go out and stake the trail. Cross clarified that Hedlund will stake the trail and the City will approve it, and explained that this is being done to meet 10% grade. Richard asked if the bridge is already there and Lindgren responded that the existing crossing will not be changed. Lambert stated that the trail will cross on the old driveway pad. i { (� Approved Minutes `. Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 15, 1993 Cross commented that this is a straightforward project; it meets all requirements. She indicated that there is a 12.2% tree loss which is below the 30% average. Cross explained that the reasons for taking out the lot are that the boxelder trees, which are a buffer to the neighborhood, will remain, and there was some concern encroachment into the 100 year flood plain and encroachemnt into Purgatory creek. Brown asked what reforest means and what types of trees are put in, and Cross explained that they would try to put in trees native to the area. w Bowman asked where the 5' sidewalk would be. Cross indicated it would be on Chisholm Drive, on the loop road closest to the creek. Cross explained that the park entry would be across from the small cul-de-sac on the property and the 8' trail would be on the east side (the opposite side of the park) . MOTION: Lynch moved to recommend that the Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission approve the Village Knolls 2nd Addition project. Motion seconded by Bowman, and passed 6-0. V. OLD BUSINESS A. Swimming Pool Information Lambert commented that this information was provided at the request of the Commission members and no action was required. Lambert stated that a Request for Proposal had been sent out to 4 or 5 mechanical engineering firms that have done a lot of swimming pool construction asking for a proposal regarding analyzing the air handling and disinfectant aspects of pool, advising what the existing standards, health department guidelines, and industry standards are and what would need to be done to meet those standards. Lambert estimated the cost at $2,000 to $3,000 and explained that it could take the engineer 4-5 days in the facility to test and evaluate the system. Lambert stated that once the testing is done, the question then is whether the City can afford to fix the problem, but that in the meantime, they are proceeding with the plan approved at last meeting. Richard asked if the Foxjet's had been provided with this information. Lambert stated they were given information on pool readings at various times previously, but might not have 2 Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 15, 1993 Dave Black's March 9 memorandum. Lambert indicated that he would give that memo to the Foxjets when we are ready to make a recommendation. Richard commented that in reviewing the materials provided, there doesn't seem to be the huge difference in the numbers that the Foxjets had indicated. Lambert explained that there is no health safety limit for the high level of combined chlorines; the goal is to keep combined chlorines at .5 ppm or under. He explained that the warmer the water is and the longer the water is in the pool, it is more difficult to do keep the combined chlorines at .5 ppm. Lambert indicated that the water in the pool hasn't been changed for five years. Lambert explained that the pools at Shoreview and Chaska have heavy use, and when Shoreview couldn't keep the combined chlorines down, the Ramsey County Health Department checked them on a daily basis, and had them dump the water out of pool one week per month after only 1 or 1 1/2 years of operation. Lambert stated that Shoreview was the first pool to use ozone, rather than just chlorine, to balance water rather, and since then Shoreview has really struggled to keep it going and to learn how to operate it, but they have had no problems with combined chlorine. This was a half million dollar addition to Shoreview's system. Lambert indicated that he had talked to an engineer from Wisconsin who suggested using another system (Bromine) to balance the water chemicals, but an engineer from Minnesota had said not to use that unless you have to. Lambert thinks that eventually, not much beyond the year 2000, the use of chlorine will be strongly discouraged, much like what is happening with freon in refrigeration systems. Lambert stated that when our staff told Tad Hauck of the Foxjets they were planning to change the water the last week of May, Tad Hauck asked why they would make this change without consulting the Foxjet's first. Tad Hauck thought it should be worked around the Foxjet's schedule. Our staff told him it would be done, but that they would help the Foxjets to find another location. Lambert commented that every time something is done, it effects someone's use of the pool. Lambert indicated that when he asked the engineers about water temperature, they said to bring it down to 82 degrees. The last time they did that it was brought down in one day and 4-5 people wanted refunds for swimming lessens. This time they will bring down temperature more slowly. The temperature will still be higher than the Foxjet's want for competitive 3 a r Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 15, 1993 swimming. Lambert indicated that he had asked the staff to go over the records for last year and compare the use of the pool by recreational swimmers and swim lessons with that of the lap and competitive swimmers. It was determined that 68% of users are recreational swimmers. Some of the Foxjets' have said they feel they are in the pool more than anyone else, but even counting each person each time, it still results in 68% use by recreational swimmers. Lambert stated that the City will try to accommodate the Foxjet's, but they are the minority users. Lambert commented that most of Foxjet's have been flexible and understanding of the needs of recreational users. Hilgeman noted that in the packet of information distributed, there were 3 days where the combined chlorine level was measured at 1 by the staff, but the Health Department read it as 1.5, and asked if that difference was because they weren't using a cholorimeter. Lambert explained the current process of measuring the combined chlorines and stated that it is difficult to get an accurate reading. He indicated that a cholorimeter might give more a accurate reading. He also noted that when the Health Department read the combined chlorine measurement at 2 ppm. last summer, they said it looked like the superchlorination process was working and indicated no concern that the combined chlorines were at 2 ppm. Lambert stated that the goal is always .5 ppm, but a 2 or even 3 ppm. reading doesn't make it an unsafe pool because there is no upper limit established by the State Health Department as "unsafe". Bowman asked if the City would be purchasing a cholorimeter and Lambert responded that he would be getting a quote on it and information on how accurate it would be. Lambert indicated that if a cholorimeter would be more accurate, one will be purchased. Richard commented that one of his neighbors who has asthma said that this was the worst year; however, it could be that her asthma is worse or there have been more swimmers in the pool at the same time as her. Richard also stated that he greatly appreciated all of the information provided regarding the pool. Brown asked whether it would be possible for the Foxjets to break their group up into smaller numbers and practice later at night, and Lambert indicated that is already being done by the Foxjets and the Foxjets are turning down kids because they would have to practice later at night, and they already practice until 8:00 p.m. five times a week. Brown noted that other children practice skating, basketball and volleyball 4 I i i , I 4 i+ Approved Minutes �. Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 15, 1993 until 10:00 p.m. due to shortages of skating rinks and gyms. Brown asked if the City would be following any guidelines in hiring the engineering teams , since most of the engineers he knows are connected to a supplier. Lambert confirmed that during the interview he will ask if the engineer is connected to any supplier, and if they are, the City will not hire that engineer. Lynch asked how the 68% use of the pool by swimmers other than the Foxjets translaters as far as revenue, and Lambert responded that the pool's main revenue is from lessens and other recreational uses. W B. Neighborhood Park Acquisition Schedule Update Lambert explained that this matter will also be going to the City Council on March 16, 1993. It relates to three new `. neighborhood parks at Rice Marsh Lake, Dell Road, and the Hilltop/Cedar Forest area. The Dell Road park has already been acquired and developers are coming in with proposals regarding the Rice Marsh Lake Park area which will be given in lieu of park fees. The only area left to be acquired is the Hilltop/Cedar Forest area park. Lambert indicated he had talked to Swanson about his 10 acres; however, Swanson wants more money and wants to hold onto the property until sewer and water come in. Lambert explained that rather than going any further in his negotiations with Swanson, he wanted to determine if there was any other acceptable land in that area and he has now looked at Don Atkins' property, which is 9 1/2 acres (1 to 2 acres is in the flood plain) . Lambert indicated that he had discussed the matter briefly with Atkins and Atkins indicated that he would consider an-offer if he could use the land for 5 to 10 years or until sewer and water came in. Lambert explained that it would be expensive to remove all the buildings from the Atkins' property, but that an estimate on costs hadn't been done yet. Lambert explained that the Swanson site is more centered in the area where the majority of people will be, and the Atkins property is more geographically centered. Lynch asked if the plan was to pay less for the land if it is purchased before water and sewer go in, and Lambert stated the City would also pay less if Atkins is allowed to stay on the 5 oz t: Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 15, 1993 property. Richard asked why we would buy something we can't use for 10 years, and commented that 5 to 7 years seemed more reasonable. Lambert explained that this matter is being considered now because the area is still developing and in 10 years County Road 1 will probably become a four-lane road and it will be dangerous for people to send their kids to parks across County Road 1. Lambert believes people in that neighborhood will demand a park on their side of the road. Lambert asked for direction from the Commission as to what should be done. Richard commented that they should consider population density, water and sewer coming in, and when Pioneer Trail becomes a 4-lane road. Lynch added that we could tell Atkins we would like him out in 5 years, or allow him 10 years unless the population increases greatly, water and sewer come in, or Pioneer Trail becomes a 4-lane road. Kube-Harderwijk asked if it would be done outside the M.U.S.A. line, and Lambert indicated it would, and that Staff feels they could petition for an expansion of the M.U.S.A. line to the river and get it, but that is contrary to what is happening at metro level. Lambert explained that there are property owners south of County Road 1 owning a few acres which could be subdivided and some of those people would have to be on the petition. If the majority of those people oppose it, water and sewer would be delayed. Hilgeman asked if it was necessary to have water and sewer before developing the park, and Lambert indicated it isn't necessary. j Lambert stated that Swanson believes water and sewer is right around the corner and that he will be able to sell his property within a year of that. Lambert indicated he feels it will be a while before water and sewer come in and that Swanson will need to consider his carrying costs for the time the property is held and also development costs. Lambert explained that the City could condemn Swanson's property and take it over, but Lambert would prefer to find out if there is another option. d' c 6 Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 15, 1993 MOTION: Lynch moved to recommend that the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission support authorizing City Staff to negotiate with Don Atkins for the sale of his property for future park use, either by allowing Atkins to stay on the property for 5 years, or for up to 10 years unless one of the following conditions occurs: 1) County Road 1 expands to 4 lanes. 2) sewer and water go to the site. Motion seconded by Hilgeman, and passed 6-0. Bowman asked if the expansion of Highway 1 and sewer and water are both necessary conditions, and Cross explained that one is a City condition and one is a County condition, so both conditions may need to be included. Brown asked who would be responsible for payment of taxes if Atkins stays on the property. Lambert stated that would be considered in negotiating the price. VI. NEW BUSINESS A. Change Order#5, Eden Prairie Community Center Ice Arena Addition Hilgeman asked if the Staff is recommending that we pay only the cost of the brick, and not the costs of overhead and profit (even though it isn't that much money) , because we were not informed of the price difference ahead of time. Lambert stated that it's the principle; he didn't want to pay anything because he felt it was the contractors problem since they never mentioned throughout any of process of the selecting brick that the price was 1 different. Lambert indicated the brick supplier won't give any money back, and the contractor needs something, so they have negotiated for 2 months to the current compromise. Hilgeman commented that she was leaning toward not paying them anything because 1) they didn't mention the difference, 2) didn't mention it for 6 months, and 3) were late getting the bill to us, and she asked why they are making such a big deal over $2,000. Lambert explained that they didn't make as much profit as they expected because some things went wrong, and they have already eaten enough costs. Lambert indicated that they u 7 y _. Approved Minutes �. Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 15, 1993 had been good to work with and he is willing to pay the cost of the brick. Lambert also noted that the contractor could argue before a Judge that the costs were actual costs. NOTION: Richard moved to .recommend approval of Change Order #5, totalling $3,926.00. ^I Motion seconded by Lynch. Brown opposed. Motion passed Lynch commented that she would like to encourage the Commission members to direct comments to the Chair, rather than to the Staff. Richard commented that he thinks Lambert w does a good job when it comes to negotiating, and has probably saved the City a lot of money. Lambert indicated he feels a responsibility to the taxpayers, but also wants to be reasonable with the contractors. VII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF i A. Reports of Manager of Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources i 1. Discussion on Variances - Jean Johnson, Staff Liaison to Board of Appeals Lambert introduced Jean Johnson of the Community Development Department and liaison to the Board of Appeals, who would be answering questions the Commission members had regarding variances. Johnson explained that she had been with the Board of Adjustments and Appeals for about 9 years, and that there is a continual process of learning as i members change. She explained that the Board was ! set up to consider hardship cases or situations j where the ordinances would cause difficulty for the landowner. _ a Johnson explained that shoreline variances do need to go through the Board since the shoreline ordinance was put in effect in 1982. The Board generally reviews 35 variance requests a year and 5 to 6 a year are shoreline variance requests. They consider the shoreline at each specific lake, the history of the land (such as what assessments have been paid) , and how the land will be preserved.. j The Board receives more requests for variances with77 ; �u' _ ,. -_.__ .' ..+:,.: ,::.f„Kf..i:!,'a_».•Y._J... •.l+i.a:r�a ,.,. '°.._ _. . ;+�...nw..J?.l,'�,�'?,:. ..,...e..,Jf'" .SJ......'C:T.'y'•aC..._Z.,.nR.uabavom:.enw.nR..e —�a.`. ,J. �'` Approved Minutes 1:.. Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 15. 1993 old home remodeling than new developments. The Board often looks to see if Commissions have met all recommendations and is very strict about hardship situations. Johnson discussed two recent variances: the Kinney Subdivision and the Shore of Mitchell Lake area. She indicated that a public area can be a trade off because it can be enjoyed by the residents. She indicated that when a developer gives up some land, he generally asks for variances toward the lake. a The Board would then look at the developer's plans, but they would not grant side lot variances. Lynch questioned what is done about protecting the shoreline when variances of 10 to 20 feet closer to the water are granted. Lambert explained that in the Shores of Mitchell Lake project, the developer gave the City the south half of the southern peninsula and the north half of the northern peninsula in exchange for narrower lots on the west side of Mitchell lake, and that it was a great trade off for the City since the trees on the peninsulas weren't replaced with houses. Lambert also explained that one purpose of the shoreline ordinance is to protect the shoreline and keep it as natural as possible. Johnson noted that they don't want to build in additional variances by making lots to small. Johnson explained that a more difficult item for Board to review is when variances are requested on existing homes for things such as decks, add-on, +: and second or third garages; it is difficult to identify hardship in those cases. Some people try to say that a third garage is normal, but the Board still feels that is a luxury item. One factor the Board considers is whether the structure will be any closer to lake. The Board talks to the applicant about options for bringing developments back and the Board can attach conditions such as requiring tree planting. 7:. Brown asked if allowing a 70' steeple on a church, when the ordinance has a 30' height restrictions, would make it easier for a 7-story hotel to receive a height variance. Johnson explained that there is a recent court ruling which states that the City does not have to worry about precedent. +, 9 .R� .... ±A!'i*[. .o.>.....-.... •1 .. ♦.'ori. +q. • rye; ,G, •7n oax "'.^�•;R 't...•... 1: ., _ ... +. ... .. .. .... .wyr ! .n..-.t..+ .. ... , Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 15, 1993 Hilgeman commented on the variances granted to Ford after variances had been given to Suburban Chevrolet. Johnson explained that Ford did meet all sign requirements, that Suburban Chevrolet had 700 square feet of signs compared to Ford's 60 square feet, that the Council did feel they had missed on that deal with Suburban Chevrolet, and that they did want the Board to pay more attention to that situation the next time it comes through. Johnson stated that the Council reviews PUD and shoreline variances and the Board of Adjustments and Appeals reviews small lots and small subdivisions. i Hilgeman commented on the give and take of the situation and that smaller developers seem to be at a disadvantage because they don't have as many bargaining chips. Johnson indicated she didn't feel that is what happened in the Kinney subdivision because Kinney received 3 lots where ordinance would have allowed only 2. Richard commented that the bigger developer does have more bargaining chips and might be handled differently, but it's because he has more to work with, and that we have to deal with everybody as fairly as possible. Cross explained that a lot of variances are based on the grid pattern for streets; because of the creeks and curved streets, there are a lot of pie shaped lots, and sometimes there is nothing you can do about variances because the roads aren't '. straight. Lambert stated that the City ended up with 5 or 6 acres on the Shores of Mitchell Lake project. Johnson explained that the Board looks to see if there is something there for the City and if the Kinney project had adjoined parkland, it might have been handled differently. Lynch asked if there are any variances the Board won't make and Johnson responded that the Board can't legally alter permitted use in a zoning district. Johnson commented that about 6 years ago it seemed that every variance was approved, but the situation is different now. The Board will not 10 L y ; , Approved Minutes C Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 15, 1993 allow anyone to get within 181 of a street; however, people can appeal to the City Council. Johnson indicated that the Board of Adjustments and Appeals is an acting body, not just a recommending body, and they do look at changing the codes when a pattern develops in requests. Richard asked if the Board is made up of city residents, what they are told when they join the Board, and if the Board has a philosophy. Johnson responded that the Board meets with the City Council and discusses the philosophy of those groups. Johnson also noted that there are architects, builders, and surveyors on the Board. Brown asked what types of things the Board feels need to be protected in the next ten years when the population of Eden Prairie reaches 60,000. Johnson stated that the Board thinks the water needs to be protected and we need to look out for the community. As a footnote to the church height discussion Johnson stated that there have been site plan revisions to the church; the church is now back 300 feet so it won't be in the history of shoreline ordinance. Johnson indicated that the Board of Adjustments and Appeals is interested in input from the other Commissions and suggested the different groups could get together for discussion in the future. Kube-Harderwijck asked for copies of any statements regarding the code. Johnson and Lambert indicated they could provide copies of the Zoning District Code and Shoreland Code to the Commission. 2. Review of Final Report on 1992 City Survey Chapter 5 Development Issues and Chapter 6, Park and Recreate on Iaaue�c Lambert thought the development and parks and recreation issues would be of interest to the Commission members, and suggested they keep this information to refer to since future discussions and decisions should be based on this information i from the citizens. 11 - ,Y 9 ♦ Gv I �'. zl Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 15, 1993 3. List of Natural Resources Study Committee Members and Letter to Pro erty Owners EXplaining Committee Purpose A list of the Natural Resources Study Committee members and a February 9, 1993, letter to property owners explaining the purpose of the Natural Resources Study Committee was provided to the Commission members for their information. 4. Letters Regarding Trappin Ordinance Lambert stated that there will be a second reading of the revised trapping ordinance at the City Council meeting on March 16. Lambert indicated that Sever Peterson will be addressing the Council because he feels the ban on leg hold traps will have a negative impact on his business; John Parker, from the DNR, will be also speaking to the issue and the Minnesota Trappers Association will want to speak. Lambert commented that he doubts the City Council will change it's decision, but feels it is important to think about the impact this may have on the City of Eden Prairie. Lambert expressed two concerns: 1) The Preserve Association called the City regarding fixing the dike at Neal Lake because it is not holding water. The dike is full of muskrat holes. This problem makes Lambert think about the building of a dike on Purgatory Creek which may also have a problem with muskrat holes unless it is built differently. 2) Sever Peterson has indicated animals on his property may cause a problem with his crops if the trappers aren't able to trap and keep the j balance. t ' Lambert stated that the DNR has indicated that if the leg trap hold is outlawed, the City might end up being overrun with animals because they have not allowed natural order of balance (which includes 12 eat. ... Approved Minutes Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 15, 1993 w trappers) and then the City will have to ask the DNR to trap them. Hilgeman commented that Sever Peterson's letter mentioned that one of the arguments in favor of banning leg hold traps was that they caused damage to domestic pets. Hilgeman commented that dogs and cats wouldn't be caught in the traps if their owners are following the ordinances. Lambert stated that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service had learned of only 2 instances where people were caught in traps in the entire United States in the last 10 years; that could hardly considered a major safety issue. Hilgeman commented that she felt the Committee had done a great job in coming up with a middle ground on this issue and that the City Council was the only group that didn't feel the same way. .A Lynch asked if it was necessary to lobby the City Council on these matters, and Lambert responded that they maybe should have on this matter. Richard stated that the purpose of the second reading is so that these types of matters don't fly through, and indicated he felt the big picture was missed on this issue and that more animals are hit by cars than would be caught in the traps, but that doesn't mean we should ban cars! Kube-Harderwijk commented that Sever Peterson's letter bothered her because it leans toward the use of trapping for recreation. She is personally opposed to hunting and feels this is a matter of population control and recreational trapping has little to do with it. Lambert responded that the people controlling the population are doing it for recreation and that someone has to do .it. Brown questioned whether the DNR was in favor of leg traps and Lambert responded that they are. ; Lambert said that the DNR attorney spent a great deal of time deciding whether they were going to challenge the revision to the ordinance and they are very concerned about it. He stated that the f DNR controls what the rules are for trapping in 13 kt' e' .l i , ' t ;• �I .:... f. f r r .. . . .Th .....,......L - Ne1.i,..l.-•{.. .. �., L Yr•H K we. r.� Approved Minutes `. Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission Monday, March 15, 1993 Minnesota, but the cities are starting to do what the DNR has authority to do. Lynch commented that there are not a lot of choices on this issue, that the Committee felt as . a first step, leg hold traps would be used in a limited area, and then the next step would be to do a total ban. , Hilgeman commented that this discussion should have happened at the first reading. B. Reports of Manager of Recreation Services 1. Circle of Seasons Outdoor Center Monthly Reports Feb & Mar) Copies of the Circle of the Seasons reports were provided for the information of the Commission members. C. Reports of Community Center Operations Manager 1. Upcoming Projects A copy of the March 4, 1993, memorandum of Jeff Elwell regarding upcoming projects was provided for the information of the Commission members. VII. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Hilgeman moved to adjourn the meeting, seconded by Lynch. Passed 6-0. The meeting was adjourned at 9:32 p.m. by Chair, Pat Richard. Respectfully submitted, Susan Forster Recording Secretary 14