Parks and Recreation - 02/01/1993 1993
FEBRUARY 1
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PRAIRIE a
CITY OF EDEN ;... •
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AGENDA
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY, FEBRUARY 1, 1993tl
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Pat Richard, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Claire Hilgeman,
Joanne Kube-Harderwijk, Adam Har u, David Kracum,
Diane Popovich Lynch, Thomas Marcus, Del
Vanderploeg
COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and
Natural Resources; Barbara Penning Cross, Landscape
Architect; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural
Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation
Services
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I. ROLL CALL
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - JANUARY 4. 1993
IV. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
A. Markham Addition
B. Kinney Subdivision
V. OLD BUSINESS
VI. NEW BUSINESS
VII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF
A. Reports of Director of Parks. Recreation and Natural Resource
1. Letter to Hidden Ponds Homeowners
B. Re2Qrts of Manager Landscape Architect/Park Planner
1. Miller Park - Review Final Plans
C. R=grts of Manager of Parks and Natural Resources
1. Trpping Ordinance - Council Action
2. Dor Management - Hennepin Park District Rea sec
VIII. ADJOURNMENT
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APPROVED MINUTES
PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
Monday, February 1, 1993 8:00 p.m., City Hall
7600 Executive Drive
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT• Pat Richard, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Claire
Hilgeman, Joanne Kube-Harderwijk, David
Kracum, Diane Popovich Lynch, Del
Vanderploeg, Thomas Marcus (arrived late)
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT• Adam Harju
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COMMITTEE STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, and
Barbara Penning Cross, Landscape Architect
I. ROLL CALL
The meeting was called to order at 7:55 p.m. by Chair, Pat Richard.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
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Barbara Penning Cross requested that the Kinney Subdivision matter be heard
first as Mr. Bill Kinney and Greg Kapiski, of Westwood Engineering, were
available to present the request.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
MOTION: Lynch moved to approve minutes. Motion seconded. Motion passed
7-0.
IV. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
A. Kinney Subdivision
Greg Kapiski, of Westwood Engineering, presented the request for variances in
the Kinney Subdivision project. Mr. Kapiski indicated that he has been working a
with Michael Franzen in developing this project to turn one lot into three single
family lots. The plan requires the use of private drives rather than a cul-de-sac,
modification of the normal zoning requirements to allow for a minimum lot
width of 110 feet, rather than 150 feet, and setback variances based on the
Shoreline Ordinance.
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Approved Minutes
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Parks Recreation and Natural Resourcesm Commission
Monday, February 1, 1993
Vanderploeg asked Mr. Kapiski what other ideas were considered for design of
the three lots, and Mr. Kapiski responded that they felt the current plan was the
most acceptable in terms of keeping the homes as far from the lake as possible
and still allowing room for a deck.
Lynch asked about the impact of this plan on the lakeshore. Cross responded
that Lee Johnson, of Orrin Thompson Homes, has concerns about the Shores
of Mitchell Lake project not being treated as fairly as the Kinney Subdivision
project. Cross indicated that the planning staff has agreed to review the matter
again with Mr. Johnson. f
Mr. Kapiski indicated that Lee Johnson's project had a larger area to work with
. and didn't have the same restrictions.
A discussion was had as to whether the January 27, 1993, memorandum of
Michael Franzen was a recommendation or a suggestion for changes. Lambert
indicated he thought the memorandum was a recommendation. Mr. Kapiski
indicated he thought the memorandum was just a comparison of options.
Lambert noted that there is no consistency regarding setbacks around Mitchell Y
Lake.
In response to Bowman's question as to how many developable lots still remain
along Mitchell Lake, Lambert indicated that there are still 4 or 5 large single
family lots on the north shore, and that if those homeowners decide to sell their
property, there will be more situations similar to Mr. Kinney's situation.
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Mr. Kinney indicated he feels forced to make the request for variances due to
the costs facing him. He commented on the undulations of shoreline,
compositions of the land, and variances of the shoreline which cause some
Orrin Thompson lots to be 45-75 feet wide. Mr. Kinney indicated he didn't
object to reducing the size of the building pads 20 feet. He thought 60 feet by
80 feet would be sufficient to build a home. Mr. Kinney indicated the water is a
shallower in the bay, that the 75 foot setback is to the corner of one house on
one lot in the bay, and that moving that back 20 feet would be a problem. Mr.
Kinney estimated that 20 to 30 homes are less than 150 feet back from the
lake.
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Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Monday, February 1, 1993
Richard indicated that if the City granted variances on the smaller piece of
property, it would not be unreasonable to request smaller building pads, and
that it is hard for him to see it having 4800 square foot building pads as a
hardship issue.
Kapiski responded that they are trying to develop the land for the types of
homes that are being built in the area and allow room for decks.
Hilgeman commented that it seems variances are granted to larger developers
because they have more land to designate to the city, and smaller developers
aren't able to dedicate as much land, so they don't have the same leverage.
w Lambert indicated that the larger developer in this case is asking that the
smaller developer be held to the same standards.
Kapiski pointed out that variances are to be granted because of uniqueness of '
property and hardship to the developer, not the size of the developer. Kapiski
indicated that the Kinney land has a depth restriction which creates an undue
hardship to developing this project.
Kube-Harderwijk asked if the bay is shallow enough that there aren't many lake
users in that area. Lambert responded that it is the last lot before the highway,
and the lake usage in that area is limited due to the shallow water.
Kube-Harderwijk asked for clarification of the purpose of the Shoreline
Ordinance. Lambert responded that the Shoreline Ordinance provides setback
requirements so that houses are built further back from the lake for the visual
enjoyment of persons on the other side of the lake and lake users. Lambert
commented that the reasons for granting any variances need to be noted in the
record. Lambert also stated that the Shoreline Ordinance is required by the
State of Minnesota.
Bowman commented that each time a variance of this type is requested, the
same reasons are used, and indicated that at some point it has to be
determined whether the ordinances have some value or not. Bowman stated
that he supports tightening the restrictions, rather than loosening them.
Hilgeman commented that she would like to have a discussion of variances take
place at a future meeting.
In response to Richard's query as to whether Orrin Thompson had offered to
purchase Kinney's land, Mr. Kinney indicated that he discussed the matter with
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Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission
Monday, February 1, 1993
Orrin Thompson, but Orrin Thompson's original plan,which did include Kinney's
property, showed they would be putting in a cul-de-sac and removing trees
from his lot. Mr. Kinney did not approve of that plan. Orrin Thompson didn't
make Mr. Kinney an offer after he told them what he thought the property was
worth. Kapiski indicated that he felt Orrin Thompson would have come up
with a similar plan in the end.
Kapiski commented that with this development, the lake will be totally
developed with the exception of the north side, and those lots won't have a
setback problem because of their distance from the lake.
A discussion followed relating to layout of the building pads and the size of the
homes to eventually be built on the lots. Mr. Kapiski indicated that since they
don't know what size homes will be built on the property, the Kinney
Subdivision project needs the variances to have the flexibility to allow for the
best development possible. Mr. Kapiski feels a 60 foot building pad would be
an unreasonable restriction, and dividing the lot into two lots would not be
consistent with the size of other lots in the area.
Richard commented that if the variances are granted, the firemen, policemen
and others will be working under restrictions.
MOTION: Lynch moved to recommend approval of the preliminary plat of
plat of 3.6 acres into three single family lots for the Bill Kinney
Subdivision with the following variances as indicated on the
January 27, 1993, memorandum and maps of Michael Franzen:
110' lot width at set back
110' width at shoreline
105' minimum setback
140' average setback
29,100 square foot minimum lot size
Motion was seconded by Bowman. Motion passed 7-0.
B. MARKHAM ADDITION.
Cross reviewed the memoranda and maps relating to this project.
Terry Schneider, a development consultant, demonstrated on the map the
constraints of this project and suggestions for it.
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Richard questioned whether the large trees would be fenced off during
construction to preserve the trees. Cross indicated that process is called the
Centex System, and Schneider explained that they would tag the trees and
then put fences around them to preserve the trees.
Schneider explained that the original plan was for 120 foot lots, but because
of a natural spring in one lot, that lot was reconfigured in the plan, so there is
a variance request to accomodate this change. Schneider explained that the
shoreline soil is of poor quality and that the actual home locations are all above
the poor quality soil. He indicated the proposal shows 70' building pads. f
However, 50' to 60' pads would probably be used. -r j
Cross commented that Outlots B and C are being gifted to the City, and
recommended putting a conservation easement around Outlot A.
Cross explained the access to the new park. The trails would continue along
the west sides of Heathbrook Drive, northeast of Royal, and on the southeast
side of Rustic Hills Drive. In response to Richard's question regarding the trail,
Cross indicated that it would be an 8' bituminous trail on both sides of
Highway 62. Richard stated that the disclosure should indicate that the trail ;
will be on both sides.
A discussion was held with respect to what kind of sound buffer there would
be from the road. Schneider indicated that the main buffer is distance, that in
some areas, they would put in a double row of pine trees, some landscaping,
and eventually,year-round coniferous plantings. Schneider indicated he doesn't
envision any necessity for fence.
Bowman commented that six lots show variance requirements.
Schneider indicated that because of the angle for the sanitary sewer line which
would come from Minnetonka, some lots would have a 50' setback, and that
most of those lots are around the cul-de-sac.
Bowman asked about the percentage of tree loss. Schneider indicated there
would be a 34% tree loss, and Cross stated that would be within the City goal
of 30-35% maximum tree loss on any development.
A discussion followed regarding the Purgatory Flood Plain Study and the ability
to enforce it.
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Richard indicated that it should also state in the disclosure that the City plans
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to have some type of cross country ski and walking trail in the 200 acre area.
He commented that it is important for people to know there will be traffic in
that area in the future.
Richard asked if there are any covenants or restrictions on developing this area.
Schneider responded that there are no restrictions, but that the owner is very
selective of builders. Schneider indicated that as long as the builders build at
the designated grade level, there won't be any problem with drainage.
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Lambert commented that he had worked with Schneider on the Timber Creek
Development which had a lot of requirements, and that Schneider followed up
on those requirements and made sure everyone was in agreement.
MOTION: Hilgeman made a motion to approve the Markham Addition as per
staff recommendations of January 8, 1993.
Motion was seconded by Kube-Harderwijk. Motion passed 7-0.
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V. OLD BUSINESS
There was no discussion of old business.
Vl. NEW BUSINESS
There was no discussion of new business.
VII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF
A. Reports of Director of Parks Recreation and Natural Resources.
Refer to information copy of January 26, 1993, correspondence to
Hidden Ponds Homeowners.
B. Resorts of Managers Landscag_e Architect/Park Planner
Refer to information copy of January 28, 1993, memorandum on the
Miller Park Update and Construction Schedule. Lambert indicated that
the plan is on schedule.
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C. Reoorts of Manager of Parks and Natural Resources
1 . Tramming Ordinance - Council Action.
Refer to the information copy of the January 28, 1993,
memorandum of Stuart Fox. Bowman indicated that he
wondered if the Commission should have done their part
differently in this matter. Lambert responded that the
Commission did what they were asked to do.
2. Deer Management - Hennepin Park District Reouest.
Refer to the January 27, 1993, memorandum of Stuart Fox.
Lambert indicated that Hennepin Parks had withdrawn its request
to allow hunting in the Anderson Lakes Park area and that a copy
of Stuart Fox's deer survey results would be included in the
newsletter at the end of the month.
Lynch indicated that the survey looks fine, but stated that No. 7
should include language regarding feeding the deer, and that the
removal aspect seems editorial. Lambert indicated that language
was put in the survey so people would understand that deer
removal is not successful, but that it would be more factual to
indicate that experience shows that a percentage of deer do not
survive when removed.
Lynch asked for clarification of the difference between a private
sharpshooter and a public hunt, and thought it should be
explained in the newsletter so that everyone would understand.
Lambert responded that a public hunt allows people to get a
license and permit and hunt deer in certain areas of Eden Prairie,
and a sharpshooter hunt would involve the police department or
certain persons who would use bait and shoot deer at night under
very controlled circumstances.
Lynch also suggested that it could include information on
vegetation alternatives so people could make a choice that would
help to minimize the deer population.
.` Kube-Harderwijk asked what the real purpose of the survey was.
Lambert responded that the purpose was to educate the public, to
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let the public know that we are involved in the deer management
project, and find out where the public stands and what they
expect with regard to the deer population problem. Lambert
commented that the survey indicates the neighborhoods of those
responding to it.
Vill. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 10:01 p.m. by Chair, Pat Richard.
Respectfully submitted,
Susan Forster
Recording Secretary
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