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Parks and Recreation - 01/04/1993 r �i ... 'M." :, y .: �,...� :. r.�. ....r..I.. .,.. .J 41 ... ! .. .. ... �, l ,.1 ..�er...J.._. 1nf.1. .. I '•�*1_, 1993 Y 4N-UAR JA MINUTES CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE J ,j J 3f1 r..tfr r AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION & NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, JANUARY 4, 1993 7:30 P. M., CITY HALL COMMISSION MEMBERS: Pat Richard, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Claire Hilgeman, Joanne Kube-Harderwijk, Adam Harju, David Kracum, Diane Popovich Lynch, Thomas Marcus, Del Vanderploeg COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources; Barbara Penning Cross, Landscape r Architect; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation Services I. ROLL CALL 7 II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - DECEMBER 21. 1992 IV. OLD BUSIES A. Hidden Ponds Trails (con't from November 16, 1992) V. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF A. Reports of Manager of Recreation Services 1. Program Ending Report - 1992 Athletic Association Appreciation Dinner VI. ADJOURNMENT parkag/bob i APPROVED MINUTES PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Monday, January 4, 1993 7:30 p.m. , City Hall 7600 Executive Drive COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Pat Richard, Chair; Bruce Bowman, Claire Hilgeman, Joanne Kube- Harderwijk, David Kracum, Diane Popovich Lynch, Del Vanderploeg COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Adam Harju, Thomas Marcus COMMITTEE STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks I. ROLL CALL The meeting was called to order at 7:35 p.m. by Chair, Pat Richard. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Lambert added the following: NEW BUSINESS: Request from Hennepin Parks to consider deer control program for winter at Anderson Lakes Park. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES ' Lynch noted one correction at last paragraph on page 3, incorrect spelling of Bowman. MOTION: Kube-Harderwijk moved to approve minutes with correction. Lynch seconded. Motion passed 7-0. IV. OLD BUSINESS A. Hidden Ponds Trails (con't from November 16. 1992) . Lambert indicated he had handed out information for review - November 25, and December 29, 1992, memorandums and Hidden Ponds Trail Survey results for Hidden Ponds I and Hidden Ponds II. He reviewed and summarized the results of those surveys and presented staff recommendations. Vanderploeg asked if $30,000 was reasonable to replace and j repair the trails. Lambert responded that he thought it was reasonable, but may be off either way, as he had not completed any engineering estimates. Vanderploeg asked about the different compositions of trail surfaces due to the problems with water. Lambert indicated that asphalt APPROVED M3NUTE8 PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Monday, January 4, 1993 would always be used on paths between homes. Richard asked fox• clarification of what recycled asphalt is. Lambert explained how recycled asphalt is created and said that it creates a surface that is harder and less expensive than ag lime and will not crack like asphalt does. Jim Sweezy from the First Addition indicated that he thought the Second Addition was more in favor of the plan. He said the homeowner's association hasn't worked and that if the City won't take care of the trails, the homeowners couldn't keep control of it. Hilgeman raised a question regarding South Shore Lane. Jim Sweezy indicated that with the plan, one of the houses on South Shore Lane would have a path on three sides of the house. He said he favored using gravel and moving the trails more toward the pond. Keri Miklag, 7054 Ticonderoga, asked who would have to pay for taxes and the legal expense and said she didn't think anyti.ing should be done until the legal aspects are settled. City Forester Stuart Fox answered questions regarding the tax. Jerry Thimsen of 7040 Parkview Lane, said a lawyer told him that if the $17 tax assessment for the trails wasn't paid, the homeowner could lose his property. A resident commented that those who chose not to join the homeowner's association shouldn't have the right to vote on the matter. Maureen Brady, 18126 Valley View Road, who is not a member of the homeowner's association, feels she is subject to the covenants and rules the same as everyone else. Discussion continued regarding the covenants for Hidden Parks' homeowner's association and the legal ramifications of assessments to the property. Richard suggested bringing the discussion back to whether the trails are wanted and how. Bob Pauli, 7160 Parkview Lane, recommended that they proceed with the results of the survey. A resident at 7129 Ticonderoga Trail commented that if trails are torn out in one area, they might as well be torn out in all areas. Maureen Brady commented that if Outlot A goes, Outlot B should go also. do I Loren Fagen on Tartan Curve commented on the drainage problem. Lambert indicated that the drainage problem is a constant battle with the people in the neighborhoods. The City is trying to make adjustments to lower the ponds. The ponds should be lower, but people put boards in which keep 2 APPROVED MINUTES PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Monday, January 4, 1993 the ponds at flood elevation. Then the City goes out and cleans out the boards when the pond floods. In response to a question on the width of the trails, Lambert indicated that, while the standard width of city trails is 8 feet, the current trails in Hidden Ponds are 6 feet and would be maintained at 6 feet. Responding to another comment regarding the condition of the trails, Lambert said some problems are caused by high water and some are the result of poor workmanship when the trails were first put in. Lambert indicated that the cost of asphalt trails would be more expensive than $30,o00 and that the City won't be able to commit to maintaining the trails if people keep plugging up the ponds. The treasurer for Hidden Ponds Homeowner's Association said he thought the majority agree Eden Prairie has a nice trail system. He feels they need a place for kids to play and would like to see trails maintained. Regarding the outlots, he wants the City to take over liability and insurance for those trails. Tom Tucker, 7178 Ticonderoga Trail, wondered how the City would let the taxes go delinquent. Lambert explained what happens when taxes go delinquent. Keri Miklag indicated she felt ag lime trails would be a mistake. Jack Erin, 7101 Ticonderoga, felt hard asphalt would be better. Richard indicated that at the first meeting on this topic, most felt the trails shouldn't be there; that they are too close to the homes. The survey shows the opposite sentiment. However, he feels at this meeting most people don't want the trails and his recommendation would be to tear up the trails and not waste any more time and money. Vanderploeg commented that the Staff has prepared things to do to the trails once there is a legal right to do something. Lambert indicated that the City has a right to go in right now due to the safety issue even though there are some obvious questions on legal matters. The City will ultimately have to review the matter and won't suggest a program if it has the chance of causing a tax problem for all lots. The legal issues will dictate whatever happens. Bowman asked what it would cost to just remove the unsafe sections of the trails. Lambert estimated $5,000 or less. 3 1, APPROVED MINUTES PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Monday, January 4, 1993 Bowman suggested doing what is necessary to make the trails safe, which would buy the City some time to pursue additional endeavors. Vanderploeg said he wouldn't support a Bandaid approach. Hilgeman indicated that the trail north of South Shore Lane has started to be torn up. Richard said he felt the trail should be taken out and not replaced. Hilgeman indicated that she's not confident that section spoils the entire trail and that the Staff's recommendation makes sense. A resident on Green Ridge Road in Hidden Parks Second Addition asked if Hidden Parks I is separate from the Hidden Parks II issue. Richard responded that the two separate issues are not Hidden Ponds I and Hidden Ponds II, but the section of trail between South Shore Lane and Duck Lake Trail is one issue and the rest of the trail is the second issue. Stuart Fox indicated that the City has a drainage utility easement on Outlots A and B and has a right to enter onto these lots for maintenance. MOTION: Hilgeman moved to recommend, subject to the City Attorney's answers to various legal questions, the following: 1) in outlot A, First Addition, that the trail north of South Shore Lane be removed and that area of Outlot A . i be reseeded; 2) in outlot B, First Addition, that the trails be made safe and resurfaced where appropriate; 3) for the Second Addition, to repair trails where necessary per Staff recommendations of 12/29/92; 4) assessments would be made subject to the City Attorneys decision on legal matters; 5) Staff to determine the best surface to use, either asphalt or recycled asphalt, to maximize use of the trail. Motion was seconded by Kube-Harderwijk. Motion passed 7-0. I . 4 '4 t�"i.u1:::....w�F•,9 .. ,.. .. ,,. � ,r-u r- ..e,n..,,..:.. . - ,. ,. a.._ ..-.:...-m„-..Mrv..v,w..vv t.rw<i i . APPROVED MINUTES PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Monday, January 4, 1993 V. NEW BUSINESS A. Deer Control at Anderson Lakes Park Larry Gillette, with the Fennepin County Parks Department, explained the problem that exists with deer overpopulation in the upper portion of Anderson Lakes. He then explained the sharpshooter program in Bloomington which was in effect for last year and which had no safety problems or accidents. He said that the deer are still on the Anderson Lakes side this year, and he asked consideration of this program for deer removal in that area. , Stuart Fox, Larry Gillette, the City of Bloomington, and the U. S. Fish and Wildlife Commission have had meetings to find out what Bloomington is doing to try to get cohesiveness between cities. Stuart Fox' intention was to go ahead with a survey and then come up with a plan. There have been similar cases with control of goose population. A fair amount of public outcry is expected. In response to the Commission's questions on how the deer are disposed of, Gillette indicated that the deer are turned over to the State to turn over to charitable organizations. Richard suggested that Eden Prairie citizens should have a right to come out and have their questions answered on the deer control issue. Lambert asked how late in the season the deer shoot can be extended. Larry Gillette indicated as long as there is adequate snow cover. They hope to get the deer count down to 125 over all, and down to 10 in the Anderson Lakes' area. Lynch recalled that last year's request was turned down and that this is a very controversial subject. She said she could not support a one-time shoot without the backup of the City having a firm management plan that would include survey statistics, results of citizens group meetings and an education plan. Lambert suggested the proposal could be discussed at the Park Commission meeting on February 1 and explain to people ! at that meeting that we are in the process of developing a plan for deer management with surrounding cities. A representative from the Hennepin County Parks Department should be there. 5 i :.. ,,, f sa APPROVED MINUTES PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Monday, January 4, 1993 Lynch said she was not comfortable giving up this area to be considered part of Bloomington for future issues. Stuart Fox commented that Gillette has been instrumental in helping Bloomington. We will need to have input from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife and the DNR. It is important to keep in mind that there are areas that can be seen from the aerial surveys. The City should make use of the resources of wildlife managers. Lambert commented on the natural resources inventory committee. Some criteria to have established by that committee includes movement of wildlife, and direction of movement. MOTION: Richard moved to recommend that a public meeting be held at the Park Commissions' meeting on 2/1/93 to receive and have an open discussion about deer harvesting in the Anderson Lakes park area, to consider a temporary shooting permit for that area, and to notify all residents on the perimeter of the park by letter and by publication in newspaper. Motion was seconded by Hilgeman. Motion passed 7-0. VI. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF A. Reports of Manager of Recreation Services 1. Program Ending Report - 1992 Athletic Association Appreciation Dinner Refer to information and packets. } VII. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Hilgeman moved to adjourn the meeting, seconded by Lynch. Motion carried 7-0. Respectfully submitted, Susan Forster Recording Secretary 6 ,