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1989
APRIL
17
TE
1VIIN�.T S
CITY OF EDEN PRAIR I E
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AGENDA
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
MONDAY, APRIL 17, 1989 7:30 P.M. , CITY HALL
7600 EXECUTIVE DRIVE
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Pat Breitenstein, chairperson; Raiford
Baker, Moe Cook, Karon Joyer, Brian
Mikkelson, Pat Richard, Charles Shaw
COMMISSION STAFF: Bob Lambert Director of Parks, Recreation
& Natural Resources
7:30 I. ROLL CALL
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
7:35 III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - MARCH 6. 1989
IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS & COMMUNICATIONS ;1
None
V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
None
VI. OLD BUSINESS
None
VII. NEW BUSINESS
7:40 A. September 12 Meeting with City Council
7:45 B. Rental Agreement for outdoor Center
8:05 C. Pedestrian System and Maintenance
VIII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF
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A. Recorts of Director of Parks. Recreation & Natural_
Resources
d
8:25 1. Annual Report
8:30 2. Updated Comprehensive Park Plan
B. Reports of Landsc De ArchitectjPark Planner
I.
8:35 1. Like Idlewild Trail
8:45 2. Hidden Ponds Park Entry
'r C. Reports of Manager of Parks and Natural Resources
8:55 1. Arbor Day Proclamation
D. Reports of Recreation Manager and Supervisors
9:00 1. 4tb of July Vendors
9:15 2. Spring Into Summer
9:20 3. Proclamation of Disability Wellness Week
E. Reports of Supervisor of Operations
9:25 1. Rubber Floor Tile for Arena
9:30 IX. CITY MANAGER'S UPDATE OF MARCH 24 AND APRIL 7
9:35 X. ADJOURNMENT
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APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION
Monday, April 17, 1989 7:30 p.m. , City Hall
C 7600 Executive Drive
COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Pat Breitenstein, chairperson;
Bud Baker, Moe Cook, Pat Richard
COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Karon Joyer, Brian Mikkelson,
Charles Shaw
COMMISSION STAFF: Barb Cross, Landscape Architect,
Laurie Helling, Recreation
Manager
I. ROLL CALL
The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. by Pat
Breitenstein, chairperson.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Richard moved to approve the agenda as printed. Cook
seconded the motion and it passed 4-0.
III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF MARCH 6, 1989
MOTION: Cook moved to approve the minutes as printed. Baker
Cseconded the motion and it passed 4-0.
IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
None
V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS
None
VI. OLD BUSINESS
None
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APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, REC. & NATURAL RESOURCES COMM. April 17, 1989
l -2
VII. NEW BUSINESS
A. September 12 Meeting with City Council
Refer to memo dated March 30, 1989 from Carl Jullie, City
Manager.
This is an information item only.
B. Rental Agreement for Outdoor Center
Refer to memo from Roderick MacRae, Outdoor Center.
Rod highlighted his proposal and how it differed from
the old policy. He defined the four groups: City of Eden
Prairie, school district, community programs and
professional associations.
Rental fees were proposed as follows:
City programs - No fee
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School programs - $5/hr. (no deposit)
Community groups - $25/first hr. plus $5/hr. thereafter
($50 deposit)
Professional groups - $10/hr. (no deposit)
The question being raised is whether this facility should
be fully tax subsidized or whether it should generate
operational income and what fee should be charged for
the direct cost of staff supervision.
Baker said he understands why a fee structure needs to
be in place, but what is the opposite argument. MacRae
said the other position is that the citizens of Eden
Prairie have already paid for this building and also pay
taxes to keep it open. They should not have to pay a
rental fee if a staff person is present. Baker said
he feels this is a subtle argument, but that the outdoor
center is actually more like a park shelter although park
shelters are not staffed.
Cook asked if the statement in the memo under rental fees
for community groups should read $25 first hour plus $5
per hour thereafter. MacRae said this was a typographical
error.
APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, REC. & NATURAL RESOURCES COMM. April 17, 1989
3-
Cook said he feels there is quite a difference between. scout
groups and Lions, etc. and these groups should not be grouped
together. MacRae said the current fee structure is schools
$5 per hour; community groups $10 per hour; professional groups
$15 per hour and social and corporate groups $20 per hour.
Cross said the problem with having too many categories is
that the person taking the reservation has to decide which
category the group is included in.
Helling noted that the rental fees for the outdoor center
is supplementary income, as this building is used mainly for
outdoor programs.
Cook agreed that it is necessary to have some type of fee
structure.
Richard asked if the outdoor center is rented 35% of the time
now. MacRae said no, but that, hopefully, it will be in the
future.
Baker commented that he was uncomfortable with the fee
structure for scout groups, as they are running on a very
limited income.
CCook asked if it would be possible to keep the groups as they
are, but have scholarships available to cover use on an as
nee .d basis to be determined by staff.
IIelling said that the cost for community groups is to have
a staff person open and close the building and if they weren 't
charged a fee, the City would be subsidizing those
organizations.
Breitenstein said she feels the fee structure should remain
as it is.
Baker brought up the possibility of charging all groups the
same fee.
Helling commented that the school gives the City the use of
gyms, etc. at one-half the cost. If the City were to increase
their fees to the schools, our cost to use school facilities
would most likely go up.
Cook said he does not understand why the professional groups
are paying less than other groups. IIelling said that there
would already be a staff person present at these meetings
to open and close the building, so an additional staff person's
time would not be necessary.
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:APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, REC. & NATURAL RESOURCES COMM. April 17, 1989
-4-
MOTION: Baker moved to recommend approval of staff 's
recommendation for a fee structure for the outdoor center
with a re-evaluation in the fall. He wanted the staff ,
to keep a record of any complaints they received concerning
the fee structure. Cook seconded the motion.
On call .for discussion, Richard said he would like to
see a list of who is actually using the outdoor center.
The motion passed 4-0.
C. Pedestrian System and Maintenance
Refer to memo dated April 12, 1989 from Barb Cross,
Landscape Architect.
Barb said the present policy is to put an 8 ' bituminous
bikeway on one side of the road and a 5 ' concrete sidewalk
on the other side of all collector roads. On collector
streets where traffic is too heavy or fast for bicycle
traffic, an 8' pathway is added. On through streets
passing through residential neighborhoods where traffic
does not justify a separate bike trail but is too heavy
for pedestrians or kids on bikes, 5' concrete walkways
are required. Over the past few months, the Planning
Commission has been recommending sidewalks on nearly every
street except cul-de-sacs.
Baker gave his opinion on the following questions:
Should the City require sidewalks to be installed on every
new street except cul-de-sacs? Traffic should be studied
before sidewalks are installed, but he did not want to 1
see them all over town.
Should the City have sidewalks or a trail on both sides
of the street to eliminate the need to cross the street?
It is not necessary unless traffic in the area is heavy.
How heavy must traffic be before a sidewalk is installed i
on a roadway within a subdivision? Very heavy. Should '
be looking at collector streets where traffic is heavy.
Cross said this is what the Planning Commission has been
recommending, but they may not be aware that the City
is responsible for maintaining them.
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Baker asked what the annual cost is for maintenance of
sidewalks on a per mile basis. Cross did not know, but
i� would find out.
On whether the City should continue to be responsible
for maintaining sidewalks including snow removal, Cross
said most sidewalks are not plowed daily and staff said
residents have not been required to clear them.
APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, REC. & NATURAL RESOURCES COMM. April 17, 1989
-5
Richard said he would like to see what the costs would
be for the City to plow sidewalks.
Breitenstein commented that most cities require residents
to clear sidewalks in front of their residence and that
perhaps Eden Prairie should encourage its residents to
do this also.
Barb will b ing maintenance costs for maintaining sidewalks
to the next meeting.
VIII. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF'
A. Reports of Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural
Resources
1 . Annual Report
Refer to memo dated April 11 , 1989 from Bob Lambert,
Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources.
Copies of the 1988 Annual Report were included in
the packets.
Cook referred to Page 23 and asked if all the land
has been acquired for the Purgatory Creek Recreation
Area. Cross said that the land for the entry only
has been acquired. Cook requested that this page
be changed to make this more clear.
Cook referred to Page 40 and asked why the fitness
center had budgeted $17,000 for temporary wages and
spent only $3900. Helling said that a video camera
was purchased which eliminated the need to have a
staff person present.
Cook referred to Page 67 and asked if running water
has been considered as a possibility for neighborhood
parks. Barb said that if sewer and water are
available, running water is possible. To date, only
Staring Lake, Round Lake and Homeward Hills parks
have running water.
Cook referred to Page 115 and said that there were
no costs listed for Eden Prairie First 100 Years for
this year.. Barb said that these figures should have
been included in the report.
This item will be on the agenda for the next meeting
for further discussion.
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APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, REC. & NATURAL RESOURCES COMM. April 17, 1989
C -6-
2. Updated Comprehensive Park Plan
Refer to memo dated April 11 , 1989 from Bob Lambert,
Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources.
This report was distributed at the meeting. Barb
said that numbers have been assigned to all of the
100 books distributed and commission members are asked
to turn in their books when their term expires.
Updates will be done on an annual basis.
B. Reports of Landscape Architect/Park Planner
1 . Lake Idlewild Trail
Refer to memo dated March 31 , 1989 from Bob Lambert,
� . Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources.
Lake Idlewild is located at the corner of 494 and
169. American Baptist Homes and Food Fair are located
on this site. The City required the developer to
construct a trail, but did not recommend a public
easement on those trail sections. If the Parks and
Recreation Commission and City Council approve of '
this trail concept, the following steps need to be
taken:
Obtain approval from Food Fair and American Baptist
Homes for a public trail easement over the section
of trail within their property.
Obtain a public trail easement from the undeveloped
sites as they request replatting or rezoning.
Obtain a scenic trail easement from Rosemount for
construction of the public trail through their park
property when the trail can be constructed around
the entire lake.
Consider an agreement with Rosemount allowing public
use of their park property for trail users or consider
acquisition of one of the remaining home sites for
development of small public picnic area adjacent to
Lake Idlewild.
Baker asked if an outlot northeast of Food Fair could
be considered for a picnic area. Barb said staff
would look into the possibility.
MOTION: Cook moved to recommend development of steps
1 -4 as suggested by staff. Richard seconded the motion
and it passed 4-0.
APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, REC. & NATURAL RESOURCES COMM. April 17, 1989
-7
2. Hidden Ponds Park Entry
Refer to letter dated March 31 , 1989 from Bob Lambert,
Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources.
Barb said that a letter was received from Tom and
Karen Thompson about fast traffic at the entrance
to Hidden Ponds Park. Barb said the entrance to the
park looks like a street.
Cook asked about the possibility of a speed bump.
Barb said it was considered, but because of liability,
the City will not consider speed bumps.
MOTION: Baker moved to recommend proceeding with
erection of a "Park Entry-Park Closes at 10 p.m."
sign opposite the Hidden Parks entry sign, erecting
a stop sign and stop ahead sign, removing or trimming
vegetation along northwest side of entry road, install
a park gate and sending a letter to ballplayers or
managers of teams warning them of new signs and how
they will . be enforced. Cook seconded the motion
and it passed 4-0.
C. Reports of Manager of Parks and Natural Resources
C
1 . Arbor Day Proclamation
Refer to memo dated April 12, 1989 from Stu Fox,
Manager of Parks and Natural Resources.
This is an information item only.
D. Reports of Recreation Manager and Supervisors
1 . 4th of July Vendors
Refer to memo dated April 13, 1989 from Laurie Helling,
Manager of Recreation Services.
Lori contacted several other communities about private
vendors at their 4th of July celebrations. The
majority did not allow private vendors. Excelsior
charged $100 per day, Bloomington charges $75 per
day and also charges service groups and Maplewood
charges 10% of gross. The advantages and disadvantages
of including private vendors was included in the memo
along with budgets for the various communities
fireworks displays. Laurie also discussed vendor
priority and recommends not allowing private vendors,
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:APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, REC. & NATURAL RESOURCES COMM. April 17, 1989
Baker asked if service groups could be contacted
encouraging them to get involved in the celebration, thus
taking some of the burden of community service groups.
He stated that this would be a good fund raiser for Eden
Prairie service groups, organizations and churches and
that businesses should be excluded.
Laurie said groups using a private vendor to provide their
concessions would be given a lower priority.
Cook asked if a private vendor is involved, he feels the
service group should also provide volunteers to run the
concession.
Baker also suggested that some type of identification,
i.e. caps, be used by service groups so the public knows
who they represent. Laurie said groups could be encouraged
to do this.
Cook reiterated that no pull tabs will be allowed. Laurie
said that is correct.
Richard asked if there is a recommended or suggested list
of novelty items. Laurie said no, but staff could come
up with a list of vending items.
C.
Baker said he feels the more activities that are offered,
the better the celebration will be.
Laurie has suggested that another stage be used for non-
musical entertainment.
MOTION: Richard moved to recommend approval of staff's
suggestion not to use private vendors at the 4th of July
celebration. Cook seconded the motion and it passed 4-
0.
2. Spring into Summer
Refer to memo dated March 30, 1989 from Bob Lambert,
Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources.
This is a request to use the Community Center on May 19-
20 for a joint City Junior High party and Senior High
party.
MOTION: Cook moved to recommend approval for use of the
Community Center on May 19-20 for the joint City Junior
and Senior High parties. Baker seconded the motion and
it passed 4-0.
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'APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, REC. & NATURAL RESOURCES COMM. April 17, 1989
/- -9- I,
< 3. Proclamation of Disability Wellness Week
This is an information item only.
E. Reports of Supervisor of Operations
1 . Rubber Floor Tile for Arena
Refer to memo dated April 11 , 1989 from Tom Eastman,
Supervisor of Operations.
Barb said three bids were received for installation
of a rubber tile floor for the ice arena. The low
bid of $3743.60 was from Becker & Associates.
MOTION: Baker moved to recommend approval of the
bid from Becker & Associates. Cook seconded the motion
w and it passed 4-0.
Cook asked about a warranty on the tile from Becker
& Associates. Barb will look into this.
IX. CITY MANAGER'S UPDATE OF MARCH 24 AND APRIL 7
�- This is an information item only.
X. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Baker moved to adjourn the meeting at 8:55 p.m.
Richard seconded the motion and it passed 4-0.
Respectfully submitted,
Lois Boettcher
Recording Secretary
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