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Parks and Recreation - 06/15/1987 Jf, ,1, ;x•tl�r '; r'; d 4 � �. �'b!' 1987 JUNE 1 15 MINUTES CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE AGENDA �w EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, JUNE 1, 1987 7:30 P.M. CITY HALL 7600 EXECUTIVE DRIVE COMMISSION MEMBERS: Pat Breitenstein, chairperson; Raiford Baker, Moe Cook, Gary Gonyea, Karon Joyer, Brian Mikkelson, Charles Shaw COMMISSION STAFF: Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services 7:30 I. ROLL CALL II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 7:35 III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - MAY 18, 1987 IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS 7:40 Request for Additional Pool Time from Steve Schultz EPHS �.y V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS y 7:45 A. Twiss Property Development Proposal C 8:00 B. The Legion Park Addition VI. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS, BOARDS AND STAFF A. Reports of Superintendent of Recreation 8:30 Concession Cart Proposal 8:40 B. City Council Meeting of May 19, 1987 VII. OLD BUSINESS 8:45 Referendum Voter Survey VIII. NEW BUSINESS 9:00 A. Proposed Revision to Rental , Programs, Membership Fees at Community Center 9:20 B. Request Approval of Bid for Sidewalk/Trail Sweeper 9:25 IX. ADJOURNMENT <1 ._.:. ._ �.:.,.... .. .,: ....5 F '...._ ..,..:�. ? !.':i:', ifl 1+.l'.. ).,..I.u.x Wr•ra<r u.s..w...__.. APPROVED MINUTES < EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION Monday, June 1, 1987 7:30 p.m. , 8600 Executive Drive COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Pat Breitenstein, chairperson; Bud Baker, Moe Cook, Gary Gonyea, Brian Mikkelson Charles Shaw COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Karon Joyer COMMISSION STAFF: Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services OTHERS PRESENT: Rick Bolinske, Superintendent of Recreation I. ROLL CALL The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. by chairperson, Pat Breitenstein. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Lambert asked Sandy Werts, Recreation Supervisor to introduce Kari Wahl, who will be taking over Sandy's duties while she is on maternity leave and will be working on a part-time basis thereafter. MOTION: Cook moved to approve the agenda as printed. Shaw seconded the motion and it passed 6-0. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - MAY 18, 1987 MOTION: Gonyea moved to approve the minutes as mailed. Mikkelson seconded the motion and it passed 6-0. IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. Request for Additional Pool Time from Steve Schultz EPHS Refer to memo dated May 13, 1987 from Rick Bolinske, Superintendent of Recreation. Lambert introduced Steve Schultz from Eden Prairie High School and said that members of the Foxjets Swim Club were also present. Mr. Schultz said that the swimming program was begun four years ago and has undergone many changes and stages since that time because of the increase in membership and competition in the Lake Conference. The high school is in the position of not having enough swimming time. i APPROVED MINUTES C EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987 -2- Most members of the conference swim in their own buildings. He added that the high school went from 25 kids to over 40. That increase along with the need for more practice time makes it necessary to have as much swim time as possible. The high school has met with staff and members of the Foxjets. They do not want to antagonize other swimmers, but would like to offer trade-off in times when the high school has away meets. He is referring to the fall season only from Labor Day through mid November and asking for an additional 1/2 hour per day which would give the Foxjets the hours of 2:30-5:00 p.m. The high school has away meets seven days. Mikkelson asked what is done with the free swim time now. Bolinske said it is used for lessons, open swim time and practice time by the Foxjets. Cook asked how the amount of practice time the high school has compares to other Lake Conference teams. Schultz said it is actually a little less. Mikkelson asked how many away meets there are. Schultz said there are seven. Lambert asked Rick Bolinske and representatives of the Foxjets for comments and said the major issue is whether to cut into open swim time. Jerry Snyder of the Foxjets asked Mr. Schultz when dry land activity such as exercises are done. Schultz said this is generally done in the morning. Mr. Snyder said he is concerned because the Foxjets is a feeder program to the high school swimming team and that 60-75X of the swimmers are from Eden Prairie with about 80-125 kids in the club. He is concerned with the younger kids having too much spare time. Dave Goebel, a member of the Foxjet Board, said that the younger kids swim on Tuesdays and Thursdays and that this program is j considered a latch key program for working parents. The Foxjets do not want to take time from the high school girls, but if they are pushed back 1/2 hour they would be swimming until 8:00 p.m. He does not know how large the senior group will be this fall, but they could possibly get by with three or four lanes and leave the rest for open swimming. Cook asked if youth sports aren' t being started too early and why is third grade considered such a good time to start. Goebel said the Foxjets were a high powered swim team at the beginning, but the program has changed. He said there are no olympic caliper swimmers on the team at this time and they are more of a community swim team. The club is a member of the U.S. Swim Team. The average j child between 6 and 10 years old is in the water three days a week. The club would like a better program in between lessons and competitive swimming. APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987 -3- Cook said he feels children are being encouraged and then not given sufficient time to swim at the high school level. He added that the pools should not be used as a babysitting program. Cook asked how many people utilize the swimming programs for this reason. Goebel said he does not have an accurate number, but that it is a factor for some people. Shaw said his understanding is that swim time during September, October and part of November will overlap with the school. Goebel said that was true and the club holds championships in February. The summer program runs from May through July and the pool is used strictly for practice. Gonyea asked where the clubs swims competitively. Goebel said they usually use the pool at Richfield Junior High. Cook asked which swimmers use the pool during the prime time of 7:30-8:30 p.m. Bolinske said it is mainly young people. Mikkelson asked if it is true that 85% of the swim team are residents of Eden Prairie. Goebel said the figure was actually about 67% two weeks ago, but the club is mainly an Eden Prairie based team. Mikkelson asked if the Foxjets couldn't be a completely Eden Prairie based team. Goebel said it could be if there were more swimmers from Eden Prairie. Cook said his understanding is that we are talking about 38 hours of time. Goebel said the additional 1/2 hour may or may not be important to the Foxjets in the fall, but he is unsure at this time. Lambert said that as the memo clearly states, the City's priorities are with the high school first and secondly with the Foxjets. He added that the school will receive the additional 30 minutes per their request unless the Commission wants to allow the Foxjets to take 1/2 hour of open swim time for the months of September through October. Lambert reminded the Commission that during the park bond referendum this year, there were many comments regarding open use of pool time, ice rinks and other athletic facilities and the City Council felt that open time should be protected. He noted that there was not a girls swim team when the Community Center opened. Gonyea said his understanding is that the Community Center was opened with the general public first in mind. He asked if the Foxjets contribute any money to the Community Center. Lambert replied that the Foxjets are an Eden Prairie based team and pay // pool rental. l„ Baker said that if we cut into public time, what times of the day this would involve. Bolinske said this would involve the hours of 7:30-8:00 p.m. i, APPROVED MINUTES `. EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987 -4- Baker asked how many people use the pool during this time. Bolinske said it is generally 30 to 50 people. Baker asked what options have been pursued with the morning swim time. Bolinske said both groups need swim time and they have encouraged them to use morning swim time. Neither group wants to push the general public out of swim lanes. He added that as many as 20-40 people come in to swim at 5:00 a.m. Cook said although he sympathizes with the Foxjets, needs are such that there are not enough available facilities. MOTION: Cook moved to recommend that an additional 1/2 hour of pool time be extended to the high school for a total of 2-1/2 hours daily and that this time is subtracted from the Foxjets time and also that the open swim time be maintained from 7:30-8:30 p.m. Shaw seconded the motion and it passed 6-0. V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS A. Twiss Property Development Proposal Refer to memo dated May 27, 1987 from Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services. Mr. Mike Gair of Gair & Associates, Site Design and Planning Consultants, was present at the meeting and briefly introduced Mr. & Mrs. Twiss, Wayne Brown, David Brown, Greg Brown and Peter Knaeble. Mr. Gair reviewed the property which is located in the southeast portion of Eden Prairie, 1/2 mile off Bennett Place. The site is 10.5 acres with a 660, east-west dimension and a 660, north-south dimension. He pointed out the location of Purgatory Creek within the Bluestem property. Lambert asked the present location of the barn. Gair showed its location and added that Bennett Place is currently under construction with the Twiss property lying west of Bluestem. The Twiss property is being sold to David and Wayne Brown. It is currently zoned rural and the developer is asking a zoning change to R1-13.5 similar to the Bluestem First Addition to the east. The plan indicates two land uses -- the southeast portion of two acres, which is 20% of the site, is designated as public open space, floodplain and park. Elevations range from 750, at the creek up to 8001 . The remaining 8 acres is designated low density residential and includes land with elevations of 750' in the southeastern corner to 853, near the Twiss home. Gair said that the proposal is to extend a roadway from Bennett Place west into the Bluestem First Addition to the northwest Twiss property corner. Future access woiild be through Eden Prairie Acres which is the Hustad property and connect with Purgatory Road. Parallel contours to this road allow the development of the Hustad property. It is proposed to plat the low density residential areas APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987 -5- with 14 single family home sites. The only problem is that 5.2 acres or 50% of the Twiss property is located in the conservancy zone. Gair showed the location of the conservancy line on the site map. Contour elevations range from 830 on the west to 800 on the east and it appears that this property includes 48% more land in the conservancy zone than similar properties in the area. After reviewing the Purgatory Creek study, Gair said that neither the property owners or developer is opposed to it, but would like to propose a solution which would accommodate both the objectives of the owners and the study. The developer is proposing 14 single family lots on the site and would like adjustments to the conservancy line to include .85 acres of the 5.2 acres within the designated conservancy zone in the plat area. In addition, they are proposing that two outlots of 3.39 acres or 33% of the site be dedicated to the City and that .98 acres or 9.3% be designated as a scenic easement. This would result in 41.6% of the site committed to scenic easement or public open space. Approximately 2.0 acres of trees will be removed of the 6.4 acres of green space which would allow about 67% to remain. Tree replacement would be provided according to City ordinance. The developer feels this is a reasonable and fair request and has spoken to staff. Baker asked why the conservancy line runs in such an uneven manner. Lambert said the line was developed in 1975 by Brauer and Associates and because of the U-shaped bend in the creek and to protect the ravine, the line does not follow the contour of Purgatory Creek. He added that the study is a guide that was developed at a large scale and it was recognized that the conservancy line would have to be adjusted. Baker asked what the City will be losing. Lambert said two key areas are: the filling of the ravine with 20, of fill, and allowing a house to be constructed on the point. Staff's major concern is the impact of this proposal on the creek valley, but Lambert said the developer has been sensitive to the site and to staff's concerns. The reason the issue was brought to this commission prior to the Planning Commission review is that the Planning Commission will ask what the Parks Commission recommends on moving the scenic easement line. Lambert added that he has had calls from people wanting to buy lots in this area asking whether ; decks can be located in the conservancy line. The answer to this question is no. Mikkelson asked how far it is from the base of the fill to the creek. Gair said it is approximately 2001 . Cook asked what the contour is at the bottom of the fill compared to the creek. Gair said there is a 60' drop with the creek at 870. Cook said that he can appreciate needing fill for the road, but that this will be enough to support two lots. Cook asked if there is a reason the developer is trying to claim additional land for additional lots. Gair said that this issue deals with a certain amount of reasonableness. He agreed that this b; t 5; . .. �...... .. i _.....,.... ..•... ..,1 :•'..-.'A. 1 ...... .:... .. ... ...t.:^•) u.,....e.'.Y..t41f. Y•.r.Y..n..e_-.w APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987 -6- involves two lots, but the developer wants to bring the road through to allow for the platting of the property and to keep a medium between high and low ground which would have the least impact on the conservancy zone. Gair said there is no practical value to move further to the south. Cook asked if 20, of fill is actually necessary. Gair replied that because of differences in contour elevation, the 20, of fill is necessary in order to be able to develop the lot. Gonyea asked if fill has been allowed in the conservancy zone before. Lambert said that the line has been adjusted previously and he cited the example of Townline Road where an individual owns five acres, all within the conservancy zone, and wants to develop it into ten lots. In this case, the line will have to be moved significantly; however, in the creek valley it is nearly a half mile wide in this location. Gonyea asked about the legal aspects involved. Lambert reminded the Commission that the Purgatory Creek Study is only a guide and not an ordinance. The City has control on development on steep slopes and has the shoreland ordinance and floodplain ordinance. Gonyea asked if the City has had a y good success rate in having the developers do what the City has requested. Lambert said there have been several incidents where more trees were removed than was approved. However, snow fence is now required along approved grading limits. Baker asked for a review of the basic street plan and asked if the developer would consider decreasing the depth of the lots on the north side of the street. Gair said the developer wants a good balance and would like to leave the road where it is since it is the best location for it. Ending the road with a cul-de-sac was considered, but it was felt that better access needed to be provided for Mr. Hustad's development and that the proposal will not affect the future of the creek corridor. MOTION: Shaw moved to recommend approval of a zoning district change- from rural to RM-13.5 and the addition of a 4.37 acre dedication and scenic easement with the developer providing tree replacement in accordance with City ordinance. Gonyea seconded the motion and it passed 6-0. B. The Legion Park Addition Refer to staff report dated May 22, 1987. This is an information item only. `'. }y ..._ :.,.:. :. '........:.... t' ....'...-Mn .. ',... •......< .......__..... ... ........._�......... .. .. .. .._............ .•n'...�.....w .y1.r .. � ..fr r.•.....•.o♦.r r ..n ....+•«. w ..a. APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987 -7- Lambert said he did not request that the developers be present since the only issue related to parks and recreation is the trail along Country Road 4 which has already been constructed. Baker asked if the parking lot will be paved. Lambert said that the new building will be constructed behind the existing building, then the old building will be demolished and the parking lot paved. No action was taken. VI. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS, BOARDS AND STAFF A. Reports of Superintedent of Recreation 1. Concession Cart Proposal Refer to memo dated May 28, 1987 from Tom Eastman, Supervisor of Recreation. Bolinske said that in speaking with Tom Eastman, he thinks that the concession cart is a tremendous idea. He cited an example of a cart of this type being used at the state hockey tournaments and people waiting in line to buy the product while other concessions were empty. The existing Round Lake concession faces the beach and no business is derived from the softball players. The concession is closed by 6:00 p.m. on most summer evenings. The concession cart could be brought around anywhere in the park and he feels that with its colorful exterior and excellent product there could be as much as an 80% or 90X profit margin. The cart could be run on a commission basis. Baker asked what the suggested price of the product is. Bolinske said he has seen it as high as $1.00. Baker asked how the City would pay for the cart. Bolinske said there is enough money in the concession budget which was to be used for paddle boats, but since the paddle boat at the senior center will be woved to Round Lake, the City could still purchase two paddle boats and have enough left over for the concession cart. Baker asked if some of the profits from the concession cart can be escrowed to buy another paddle boat in the future. Bolinske said yes. Baiter asked what has to be done to disallow the Blue Bell ice cream truck in Round Lake Park when the City itself is selling ice cream. Lambert said the Blue Bell concession has been told numerous times that the only concessions allowed are those where the money goes back to the public. APPROVED MINUTES C_ EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987 -8- Shaw said he attended the ice skating show and noticed the poor sound system. Bolinske said if the bond referendum had passed, a new sound system would have been added. He feels we would need to hire a neutral sound engineer and have him recommend a good system to us. Cook asked if the concession cart could be here by July 4. Bolinske said yes. Baker asked what the thoughts are on commissions. Bolinske said as an example, we could sell the cones for $1.00 and give a 20% commission to the seller. MOTION: Cook moved to recommend approval of the purchase of a Tropcal Snow Cart at a price of $2,245.00. Baker seconded the motion and it passed 6-0. At this time, Rick Bolinske introduced Rick Bolunshuk who is working at the Community Center on a 13 week internship from UND. B. City Council Meeting of May 19, 1987 `- The Council approved the following: hiring of consultants for park planning, bond referendum park study, Edina-Eden Prairie adaptive program concept and the rowing club regatta. VI. OLD BUSINESS A. Referendum Voter Survey A draft copy of the survey was included in the packets. It was given to Bob Slocum of Carmichael Lynch for review and staff has not heard back from him to date. The draft was also given to the City Council. Lambert feels the survey should be kept short and easy to complete. It will be sent to the 2510 voters who will answer why they did or did not support the park bond referendum and send it back in a self addressed, stamped envelope. Cook referred to Question 3 and felt the wording should be changed to read "favor" or "oppose" instead of "strongly favor" or "strongly oppose". After discussion, the commission agreed to the change. MOTION: Mikkelson moved to recommend approval of the draft survey as amended. Gonyea seconded the motion and it passed 6-0. APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987 -9- VII. NEW BUSINESS A. Proposed Revision to Rental, Programs, Membership Fees at _Community Center Refer to memo dated May 26, 1987 from Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services. Lambert said the issue of proposed changes in fees has been discussed for some time. In 1986, the Community Center lost $40,000 which is more than ever before. The major difference was the $30,000 loss in summer ice time rental caused by more summer leagues and more competition. If the City could operate on a break even basis, an increase in fees would not be necessary. Staff is recommending major changes to include an increase in pool rental and racquetball fees along with a change in membership structure. A survey of the YMCA and other community buildings showed pool rental ranging from $35 per hour to $132 per hour. The Community Center presently charges only $20 per hour. Staff is proposing an increase to $28 per hour for the remainder of 1987 and an increase of $35 per hour beginning in 1988. Instead of so many different membership programs, staff is recommending three different Ccategories -- youth, adult and family for resident and non- resident. Lambert feels that a fair amount of revenue can be generated in this manner. Comparisons were also made on the cost of swimming lessons and Eden Prairie has been exceptionally cheap. It is proposed that a membership would include free use of fitness center, free use of swimming pool during open swim time, free use of ice arena during open skating, reduced racquetball rates, reduced lesson fees, special events would be free, reduced rates for classes such as aerobics, and youth can use racquetball courts free during the summer. Lambert feels this will give a healthy jump in memberships and raise revenue. Bolinske commented that the new membership structure would be good one year from date of purchase instead of January to January with a decrease in cost. Baker asked about ice time rentals during the summer. Bolinske said insurance costs have hurt the amount of time used for hockey and they look to figure skating to make up for it. Baker said that since racquetball generates a lot of profit and the Community Center is down to only two courts, what would it take to build an additional court. Bolinske said the payback on a racquetball court is about three years and he feels the racquetball courts and fitness center are the two most important items at the Community Center for adults. q APPROVED MINUTES �• EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987 -10- Baker asked if this commission can go ahead and build a racquetball court without a bond referendum. Bolinske commented that there is not enough available at the Community Center to attract adult memberships. Baker asked what the City Council's response would be to proceed with the building of another racquetball court. Lambert said they would look at it seriously, but it will cost between $800,000 and $850,000 to brick face the building and the City won't get the entire cost from the lawsuit. The Community Center needs to move the recreation staff into their own offices, the middle bank of lockers need to be replaced with full length lockers, the entire locker room and pool deck should be tiled and three racquetball courts should be added in the future. Bolinske said the building still has to be brick faced, with or without an additional racquetball court. Steve Schultz said that lie is concerned with program costs, but agrees that there are not enough facilities available for adults. He added that discount memberships could be made available to those with kids in programs. Bolinske said the Foxjets pay over $12,000 in pool rental per year. Lambert questions whether it would be fair to raise only the ice time rental and not pool rental. Snyder asked if the high school pays for pool time. Lambert said they pay the same rates as everyone else except during the day when it is $6 per hour less. Baker added that the high school pays a reduced rate for ice time. Cook referred to the request by the high school for additional pool time which was discussed earlier in the meeting. He said he feels needs should be closely monitored in order to have those needs justified for the next bond referendum. Bolinske said they have encouraged swimming lessons during the fall and winter, but this has not decreased the number of summer swimming lessons. Baker asked if the Foxjets go to Richfield for meets because it is a better facility. Schultz said they do not go to Richfield because of a better pool since Eden Prairie has the eight lanes necessary, but there is seating capacity for 400-500 at Richfield and also at Coon Rapids, but they have to pay as much as $2,000 to hold a meet. He feels the Community Center should add more seating capacity and locker rooms. The Foxjets host about 6-8 meets per year. r t '.1 ( APPROVED MINUTES ` EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987 -11- Bolinske said he feels lockers and seating capacity are important. Lambert said it would be difficult to put in a grandstand at the Community Center. Bolinske said the Community Center has seating for about 300 at this time. Schultz said the Foxjets would have a minimum of two meets per year. Breitenstein requested that the commission get back to the subject at hand which is the new membership structure and increase in rates. Lambert said action is required to support staff recommendations and bring it before the City Council. It will take 6-8 weeks to make changes relating to memberships. He feels it would be appropriate to wait until the lawsuit has been settled to discuss additional facilities. Lambert added that the Council is expecting a similar bond referendum next spring and it will be at least then before construction could begin. MOTION: Cook moved to recommend proceeding with staff recommendations regarding membership changes and new fee schedule Cat the Community Center. Shaw seconded the motion and it passed 6- 0. B. Request Approval of Bid for Sidewalk/Trail Sweeper Refer to memo dated May 26, 1987 from Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services. Lambert said the purchase of this item was approved in the 1987 budget. Staff tried a number of machines and found that the smaller unit worked better than a larger one. Staff recommends accepting a bid of $24,922.14 from Tennant Company for a 365 sweeper. Gonyea asked if there is much difference between the Model 255 and Model 365. Lambert said the specifications were for the larger model, but this one is very similar. Cook asked about a warranty of the machine. Lambert said there is a full one year warranty. Cook asked how long Tennant has been in business and if it is a reputable company. Lambert said they have been in business for many years and are a major builder of sweepers. i . .. ..._. ., ,r ._........r.., ......,.„.�..• v:Y e. _.. x2,.., ,.<c:r.,....r..,re,_�vn.-w,.n.�.s..,,..........._ .. APPROVED MINUTES I . EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 1, 1987 -12- MOTION: Shaw moved to recommend acceptance of the bid from Tennant Company for $24,922.14 for a sidewalk/trail sweeper. Mikkelson seconded the motion and it passed 6-0. IX. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Gonyea moved to adjourn the meeting at 9:45 p.m. Cook se— co�n •ed the motion and it passed 6-0. Respectfully submitted, Lois Boettcher i Recording Secretary `. AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, JUNE 15, 1987 7:30 P.M. CITY HALL j 7600 EXECUTIVE DRIVE COMMISSION MEMBERS: Pat Breitenstein, chairperson; Raiford Baker, Moe Cook, Gary Gonyea, Karon Joyer, Brian Mikkelson, Charles Shaw COMMISSION STAFF: Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services 7:30 1. ROLL CALL II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - JUNE 1, 1987 I : IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS None V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS 7:35 A. Bluestem III Addition r 7:45 B. Timber Creek North VI. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS, BOARDS & STAFF 8:35 City Council Meeting of June 3, 1987 i VII. OLD BUSINESS 8:45 Recommendations on Edenvale Trail & Review of EAW VIII. NEW BUSINESS 9:00 A. Request Authorization to Hire Architect to Prepare Plans and Specifications for Repairs of Community Center 9:15 B. Approve Bids for Eden Lake Elementary Playstructure 9:20 IX. ADJOURNMENT , " I (APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION ` Monday, June 15, 1987 7:30 p.m. , 8600 Executive Drive COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Pat Breitenstein, chairperson; Bud Baker, Moe Cook, Gary Gonyea, Karon Joyer, Charles Shaw COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Brian Mikkelson COMMISSION STAFF: Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services I. ROLL CALL The meeting was called to order at 7:30 p.m. by chairperson, Pat Breitenstein. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Lambert added C. Camp Edenwood under VIII. New Business. H „ MOTION: Shaw moved to approve the agenda as amended. Cook seconded Me motion and it passed 6-0. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - JUNE 1, 1987 Cook asked that the word "club" be changed to "high school" in the last paragraph on Page 1 and in Paragraphs 1 and 3 on Page 2. Baker asked that the word "street" in Paragraph 6 on Page 6 be changed to read ". . .lots on the north side of the street." Also, that the first sentence in the last paragraph on Page 7 be changed to read, "Baker asked what has to be done to disallow the Blue Bell ice cream truck in Round Lake Park when the City itself is selling ice cream." MOTION: Baker moved to approve the minutes as amended. Cook seconded t-Fe motion and it passed 5-0. Joyer abstained. IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS None V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS t A. Bluestem III Addition Refer to staff report dated June 5, 1987 and memo dated June 10, 1987 from Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services. Lambert introduced David Brown and Brian Olson. The developer is requesting the replatting of four existing lots into three larger lots, l I 1 'APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 15, 1987 -2- Mr. Olson, landscape architect for Ron Kruger and Associates, pointed out several areas on the site plan -- dark green depicting park dedication and tan being the second addition of the site. A map oil the replatted area showed the wider lots which are an average of 123 feet with a depth of 120-125 feet. Dark green on this map indicates additional parkland which will be dedicated to the City. Lambert said staff's concern is the moving of the conservancy line to accommodate larger homes on these lots. The developer wants to move the line 10-15 feet, reduce the number of lots from four to three and dedicate an additional 1.6 acres to the City. This proposal was approved by the Planning Commission and he also recommends approval. Baker asked if the proposed changes to the conservancy line can be i seen on the site plan. Olson said that by looking at a combination of the two site plans, the dark dash line indicates existing and proposed conservancy lines. Baker asked if the proposed line will allow decks to be built on the new homes. Olson said yes. i Cook asked if new homeowners realize that they cannot build within the conservancy line. Brown said he tries to make this point clear; however, many residents don't believe it since it is their land. He added that if the developer had known the type and quality of homes that were to be built on this site, the road could have been moved to a different location. At this point, it would cost a great deal of money. MOTION: Baker moved to recommend approval of Bluestem Hills 3rd AdUF on per staff recommendation. Gonyea seconded the motion and it passed 6-0. j B. Timber Creek North Refer to staff report dated June 5, 1987 and memo dated June 10, 1987 from Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services. Lambert introduced Mr. Terry Snyder, development consultant representing Timber Creek North. Mr. Snyder reviewed the site which is located on 88.9 acres south of Townline Road and north of Purgatory Creek. Minor changes were made in the plan based on requests made by staff. The developer proposes building 68 cluster townhomes and 40 single family homes on the site. Mr. Snyder said the City has a unique opportunity to acquire additional parkland on this site, as the developer has agreed to dedicate 51.1 acres for preservation, 30 acres of which are in the Purgatory Creek floodplain, in lieu of cash park fees. The developer is requesting j r. an amendment to the original PUD which was for the construction of 120 townhomes and 68 single family homes. Mr. Snyder said the developer has reached a compromise with the City regarding the tree f APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 15, 1987 -3- replacement policy. They are preserving approximately 85% of the existing trees and the developer feels that most of the trees, which the City has included as being potentially impacted, can be saved and the money used for retaining walls, etc. The other issue is the trail system. After several meetings with the neighbors, Mr. Snyder feels that everyone is satisfied with the exception of a few residents. The developer's basic premise it to preserve the area in its natural state and to provide three access points into the site. The three access points are at the top of the hill off Townline Road, at the end of the cul-de-sac for emergency vehicles and pedestrians and Creekview Lane. The developer agrees with staff recommendations regarding sidewalks. Lambert said that the developer is proposing that about 21 acres be dedicated to the City is lieu of cash park fees when only 8.8 acres is required. The floodplain area will be given to the Eden Prairie Foundation who will deed it back to the City. Lambert agrees with the developer's philosophy that if money is being spent to preserve trees, he should be getting credit for it. He added that the developer has done a very commendable job on a difficult site. Regarding trail connections, Lambert said that staff recommends a connection from the cul-de-sac to the west and existing Creekview Lane. He feels the trail should be hard surfaced in the future, but he sees no problem with a mowed path in the interim. Lambert said the rest of the trail system is quite extensive. One of staffs main concerns is the height of a gazebo which may be constructed on one of the lots and if it will be visible from the park area. He said staff will need to know the elevation of the drop of the hill before agreeing or disagreeing with the building of the structure. Baker asked what type of connection there is between Eden Valley Park and this neighborhood. Lambert said there will be a connection from the townhomes to the north down into this development. Baker asked if the trail to the park will be hard surfaced. Lambert said the use of the trail will be monitored, but aglime could be used. Judy Lynblad of 15916 N. Eden Dr. said she enjoys watching the wildlife in this area and would like it to remain this way. The amount of wildlife has already been drastically reduced and one of her major concerns is the natural drop between her home and her neighbor that will be used for park access. She added that even the best development proposal for this area will eliminate wildlife. APPROVED MINUTES \. EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 15, 1987 -4- J Pat Savage of 15924 N. Eden Dr. commented that the hill the neighborhood kids used for sliding in the winter will be gone. He was also under the assumption that the area the developer is speaking about belonged to the City. Ron Hanson of 15809 S. Eden Dr. referred to correspondence dated 2/11/80 and 8/9/80 from the City and added that at that time it was Carl Jullie's opinion that this site was at too steep a grade for a road to be built. Hanson is disappointed with what has happened in this area since that time. Ron Stevens of 6309 Creek View Lane said he appreciates all the parks Eden Prairie has, but no one in his neighborhood wants asphalt paths. He added that there are paths in rough shape all -. a over the City which need to be repaired and that not many people use the paths anyway for biking or walking. Stevens said this area still has some wildlife. He repeated again that they do not want asphalt paths and the money should be used for other things that are necessary in the community since it is growing so fast. Baker asked Stevens to point out the trails he is objecting to on the site plan. Stevens did so. Baker noted that staff is not recommending any asphalt paths until the neighborhood requests them. Tom Schroeder of 6318 Creek View Lane said that his feelings are the same as Mr. Stevens since he also does not want any asphalt trails in this development. His main concern is that the residents are not involved in the decision-making process. Schroeder said his wife had to call the City Hall to find out what was going on and that this meeting was being held. He also said that he doesn't feel there will be a need to connect the neighborhoods and that there will be strong neighborhood involvement when this decision is ready to be made. Helen Savage of 15924 N. Eden Dr. said she understood that the land behind their home was to be kept in a natural state. She added that they never received a notice of any neighborhood meetings. Savage said she realizes they can't keep development out of the area, but she likes to look at a natural area and the rooftops of homes are not natural. She also said that the impression the developer gave that residents are in favor of this are not true. Kevin Devon of 16526 Creek Ridge Road feels that this area is precious and being from South Minneapolis originally, he appreciates the natural setting. Devon added that he has seen only one four wheel drive vehicle in this area, but mostly runners and walkers and he is impressed with this part of Eden Prairie. i ,!APPROVED MINUTES _ EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 15, 1987 -5- Bob Gilmer of 6460 Creek View Lane said that he also does not want paved trails. Mr. Snyder pointed out the two areas on the site plan where paved trails are proposed. Gilmer said his main concern is emergency access, but he does not feel the access has to be paved to handle emergency vehicles. Gilmer went on to say that at one time the City Council said that this area was to remain parkland. He asked is there is a possibility that the City could buy this land and keep it as parkland. Paul Choiniere of 15819 N. Eden Dr. said we will see the end of a beautiful recreation area when development begins. He objects to the creek crossing and asked what purpose it will serve. Lambert said the reason for the crossing is so residents will have a way to get to the neighborhood park. Choiniere asked if the Commission is aware of future plans for soccer fields and parking lots in the Purgatory Creek Recreation Area. Lambert said staff did not feel that those uses were appropriate and the plans proposed in 1975 have been amended. Choiniere asked if it would not be a fair request to ask the Commission to keep the area in its natural state. CHelen Savage said she realizes that residents seem to be biased, but they would only like things to remain as they are. The residents have a long term interest in this area. Shaw asked what the average lot size in this area is. Mr. Snyder said it is approximately 18,000 to 19,000 square feet. Shaw asked what the average cost of a home in this area will be. Mr. Snyder said they would be in the $200,000 range. Shaw asked Mr. Snyder to comment on the natural watershed. Mr. Snyder showed its location on the site plan and said that water comes in on the west side of the hill. Shaw commented that it doesn't sound like the density is excessive. Snyder added that most of the existing trees will remain. Shaw asked Lambert to comment on the implication about the land being set aside as parkland in 1980. Lambert referred to the park plan for the years 1973-1975 and showed the area involved on the site plan. He said a 1979 referendum proposed 18-20 acres as parkland and the PUD in 1983 showed a similar configuration. However, unless the City buys the land, they have to work with the developer on what can be preserved. This developer is being very generous in this case. The park plan is only a guide and is subject to change. r ;APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 15, 1987 Joyer said her concern is with the tree line and asked about the houses along the creek corridor. Mr. Snyder said the entire area was developed around the fenceline. The developer is negotiating on eight or nine trees, but all the trees on the top of the hill will be saved and as many as possible along the fence line will also be saved. Cook said he understands that the proposed trail system will be added to the current path and construction will be minimal. Mr. Snyder said the developer will incorporate the existing system into a trail plan that works. Cook asked what type of system is proposed along the Crosstown. Lambert said there will be a sidewalk which will tie into the trail system. Baker asked what the price of the 12 lots will be. Mr. Snyder said they haven't finalized pricing yet, but they will run approximately $40,000 to $45,000 depending upon location. He added that the developer has no desire to negotiate a sale with the City. Baker asked for a review of the proposal for hard surface trails. Lambert said when trails are in between homes, they are generally C hard surfaced so they are easily defined as trails. He cited an example of a grass trail in between homes near County Road 18 where residents were not aware it was a path and planted shrubbery, etc. He said they are trying to construct a hard surface path there at this point, but the residents adjacent to the trail are opposed to it since it would extent to the back of the lot line. Baker asked about the loop section. Lambert said this will be located between the townhomes and single family homes. Shaw said he welcomes input by residents and that the most concern seems to be with the hard surface trail which isn't proposed until requested by the neighborhood. MOTION: Shaw moved to recommend approval of Timber Creek North per stoma ' recommendation with the contingency that prior staff approval be required before the gazebo proposed on Lot 7, Block 3 is constructed. Baker seconded the motion. Baker suggested that the motion include an agreement between the City forester and the developer regarding tree replacement. Cook added that making an entrance off Creek View Road only should be considered and that any decisions affecting the natural state of the area should be discussed with residents. These items were added to the motion and it passed 6-0. r i APPROVED MINUTES C EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 15, 1987 -7- Mr. Choiniere asked if it is required that residents be notified of Parks and Recreation Commission meetings. Lambert said no. The Planning Commission sends out notices on public hearings. Schwaneer asked what can be done to change this procedure. Lambert said this is a legal issue and it would be costly to send out the additional notices to residents. He added that this proposal will go back to the Planning Commission next week and will be presented to the City Council at their July 7 meeting. VI. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS, BOARDS AND STAFF A. City Council meeting of June 3, 1987 � - There was no report. VII. OLD BUSINESS A. Recommendations on Edenvale Trail & Review of EAW Refer to memo dated June 10, 1987 from Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services. Lambert said this issue was last discussed at the November meeting. At that time, the City Council authorized the EAW on the proposed trail system. The EAW has been completed and finds no negative Impact on the trail. The Council requested that the Parks and Recreation Commission discuss the EAW and it will be brought before the Council at their July 7 meeting. Since the November meeting, the City has begun mowing the proposed walking path and dredging the open water in the marsh area was completed early this year. After reviewing the EAW and finding negative results, staff recommends the construction of a pedestrian bridge from the end of Hillcrest Court and a mowed trail from the bridge south to Edenvale Park. The trail will require two small culverts be installed with a limited amount of fill at a cost of between $1,500 to $2,000. Shaw asked if any of the extensive roadwork that is being done will affect this area. Lambert said no. James Cullin of 15381 Creekside Court was present at the meeting as the representative of 35 homeowners who signed a petition against the proposed trail system. The petition was sent to the Minnesota Environmental Quality Board. Mr. Cullin said he will be speaking with the attorney representing the homeowners; however, he did not receive a copy of the EAW nor was he notified about it. He referred to a resolution which was adopted by the City Council in April of 1976 which states that residents should receive a two week ( notice prior to a meeting. Cullin received the notice only three days before. He said he has followed all City Council activity via the newspapers and feels that the EAW is inadequate unless all proposed development is assessed as one unit. APPROVED MINUTES C EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 15, 1987 _8_ Lambert replied that since there is no time limit involved on this project, the item can be continued until the next meeting to allow Mr. Cullin time to review the EAW. Lambert added that when the EQB received the petition, there was no requirement for an EAW, but the City Council decided to go ahead in order to appease the residents. I' Gonyea asked if the EAW is public information. Lambert said yes. Gonyea said he feels that it is appropriate that the attorney and residents are able to see it. After discussion, it was decided to continue this item until after Labor Day in order to accommodate vacation time and since there is no great urgency to make a decision. Gonyea asked how the EAW can be obtained. Lambert said he will provide a copy for Mr. Cullin and anyone else is welcome to see it at the City Hall. Copies of the EAW are generally sent out after the City Council has reviewed it and sets a 30 day time limit for comments; however, the EAW can be reviewed prior to Council review. a e Mr. Cullin referred to a discharge into the conservancy zone which was reported in a recent edition of the Sailor and asked what the discharge was. Lambert said it was on an old farm site and he did not know what caused the discharge; however, staff suspected an old septic system had been disturbed. Kari Thompson of 15321 Creekside Court said the leakage occurred around a manhole near their home. She called the City in January and was told it was mineral water. Ms. Thompson had the water tested and found it contained a significant amount of human fecal bacteria. She called the City again and they covered the area with rocks. There was still seepage around the rocks and some discharge into Purgatory Creek. Jerry Johnson of 15801 N. Hillcrest Ct. said that the first phase of the proposal is to mow the path and construct a bridge. He asked when the second phase would be done. Lambert said the proposal is to mow the path and leave it that way as long as it serves the need. The use of the path will be monitored and there is no hurry to have it hard surfaced. Johnson asked if the residents will be notified when later phases of the proposal come up for discussion. Lambert said yes. Johnson added that his backyard has been wetter than normal this spring and asked what the logic is to install the culverts adjacent to Valley View Road the way they are. Lambert said he should speak to the City engineer about this. i ; i� APPROVED MINUTES �. EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 15, 1987 -9- Johnson said he thinks wildlife blinds are a super idea, but there may be stagnant water there. He feels the area should continue to be dredged to keep the water flowing in and out. George Carlson of 16171 S. Hillcrest suggested that notices regarding issues of this type include more details, but he feels the current system is working well on this project. Lambert said the notice that will be mailed on September 1 will be more descriptive. VIII. NEW BUSINESS A. Request Authorization to Hire Architect to Prepare Plans and Specifications for Repairs of Community Center Refer to memo dated June 10, 1987 from Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services. 'x MOTION: Shaw moved to recommend authorization to proceed with the hiring of the architect for repair of the Community Center. Baker seconded the motion and it passed 6-0. B. Approve Bids for Eden Lake Elementary School Playstructure Refer to memo dated June 11, 1987 from Bob Lambert, Director of Community Services. Lambert said the funds for the purchase of the playground equipment will be reimbursed by the school. He added that a different evaluation process was used and the City worked with the school to evaluate the bids. MOTION: Shaw moved to recommend approval of the Earl F. Anderson proposal for $30,000 for playground equipment at Lake Eden School. Cook seconded the motion and it passed 6-0. C. Camp Edenwood Paul Fjare was present at the meeting to review the Camp Edenwood proposal. Plans show the home site as being located 70 feet in from the north property line, but is actually 90 to 95 feet. Lambert asked if any of the existing oaks will be removed. Fjare said no. Approval of the proposal was to be contingent upon connection to sanitary and sewer lines and the placement of the house in the desired location. i Lambert said staff's main concern was the existing oaks and since these will not be removed, he recommends approval. _ ... •..: , ._.:.... _. .1„... .,,.,,.. ..a_..—..�.....__..a.._._ ,_.._,.., .. r...,.,, .l.v. __., .. ... ....i. r..<'r -i ter,,...... _......r...,,........-„_..___.. _ .,. ... .APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION June 15, 1987 -10- Lambert asked at what point the proposal is with the Planning Commission. Fjare said the stakes are up to show the location of the house and the Commission may wish to visit the site. The next step is to go before the City Council tomorrow night. Lambert said the request is to move the building on to City park property and to begin the process of expanding the boundaries of Edenwood Camp on additional park property. He added that the house will be used for staff administration and for residential use after sewer and water connections are made and zoning is changed. MOTION: Gonyea moved to recommend approval of the Edenwood Camp proposal per staff recommendation. Joyer seconded the motion and it passed 6-0. IX. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Baker moved to adjourn the meeting at 9:55 p.m. Shaw seconded the motion and it passed 6-0. Respectfully submitted, Lois Lois Boettcher Recording Secretary .4 C V