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Parks and Recreation - 09/15/1997 i 1997 SEPTEMBER 15 MINUTES Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE � AGENDA PARKS,RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY,SEPTEMBER 15, 1997 7:00 P.M.CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS COMMISSION MEMBERS: Richard Brown, Chair, Frantz Corneille, Claire Hilgeman Don Jacobson,Vicki Koenig,Glenn Stolar,John Wilson COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation Services 1. ROI I:CA;L I1. APPROVAL OF AGENDA 111. APPROVAL OF MINUTES-AUGUST 18. 1997 r IV. PETITIONS REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS V. DF.VEL_OPMENT PROPOSALS A. GE Capital B. The Pines-July 1997 VI. OLD 13USINESS A. Second Season Fees and Deadline Dates for Facility Usage Requests VII. NEW BUSINESS A. City School Facility Use Fee Proposal = B. MitiLation Landscape Plan for 17562 Belfast Lane on Mitchell Lake Vill. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF A. Reports of Community Center Manager I. Imposed Rental Rates for 1998 2. Summary of Oak Point First Year of Operation IN, ADJOIJRNMFNT I i t APPROVED MINUTES r EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS,RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION I MONDAY,SEPTEMBER 15,1997 7:00 P.M.CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS COMMISSION MEMBERS: Richard Brown, Chair; Frantz Corneille, Claire I-iilgeman, Don Jacobson, Vicki Koenig, Glenn Stolar,John Wilson � COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: John Wilson COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A.Lambert,Director of Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources;Stuart A.Fox,Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Laurie Hclling, Manager of Recreation Services; Joel Klute, Ice Arena & Concession Coordinator; Elinda Bahlcy, Recording Secretary 'r 1. ROLL CALL. Chair Brown called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Commissioner Stolar was excused at 8:50 P.M. 11. APPROVAL OF AGENDA MOTION: Koenig moved,seconded by Hilgeman,to approve the agenda as published. Motion carried 6-0. 111. APPROVAL OF MINUTES-AUGUST 18 1997 MOTION: Koenig moved,seconded by Corneille,to approve the minutes of the August 18, 1997 Eden Prairie Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission as published. Motion carried 6-0. IV. PETITIONS,REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS None. V. DEVELOPMENT'PROPOSALS A. GE Capital Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 10, 1997 from Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources;and a staff report dated August 22, 1997 from Michael D.Franzen,City Planner. I Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,September 15,1997 Fox indicated this is a proposed redivision on the former Gelco site currently owned and operated by GE Capital. The original plan for expansion of situ site was approved in 1978 but the configurations proposed are a little different from the original plan. Dennis Zillar,representing the developer,explained the proposed plan is to take the 1978 PUD and redesign the whole master plan for the site to eliminate three large parking ramps that were along the shoreline and to do some structured parking away from the shoreline. The proposal is for three buildings ultimately on the site which total 360,000 square feet which is exactly the gross square footage that was part of the 1978 PUD. The difference is instead of three buildings at 120,000 square feet, the proposal is to develop two buildings at 150,000 square feet and one building at 60,000 square feet. The only site plan approval they are seeking right now,other than the change in the PUD concept, is for approval to start the first building for 150,000 square feet, There are no plans at this point for the second 150,000 square foot building and the 60,000 square foot building will ultimately be connected to the GE Capital Fleet Services building. Thcrc arc some parking lot expansions that will take place north, cast,and southeast of the existing GE building. The center pond will be made larger according to current regulations because back in 1978 there was no such thing as a NURP pond. They arc extending the pond in the southeast portion of the site which is the peninsula to also pick up drainage and filter the water coming off from the parking lot on the easterly portion of the site. They accepted staffs recommendation for mitigation at the Planning Commission to add 1 10 inches of trees. Therefore,the staff report is not accurate as a result of the agreement made at the Planning Commission.They would like to start Phase 1 this fall pending approval from the Commission and City Council. They did receive Planning Commission approval at the August 25 meeting. Fox reviewed the staff report with the Commission. There was a total of 12,230 caliper inches on the tree inventory which was comprised of 799 trees. The primary woodland area of this site is in front of the old building and also to the easterly side. The proposed grading and site work would remove 238 trees or 2,702 caliper inches which represents 22 percent loss of significant trees. The mitigation for this would 1 be 796 caliper inches. IIc noted he was not aware the developer committed to additional trees which added to the original plan. It does meet the criteria for the tree mitigation on the loss,plus site landscaping work to screen the parking lots,and also screening of other adjacent areas. The NURP pond proposed will be modified to meet current standards. The Engineering Department will inspect it to make sure the runoff calculations are 2 I Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,September 15, 1997 correct and all the storm water on the site will be pretreated, It will be a plus in terms of having these NURP ponds installed because there is no pretreatment of water going into Anderson Lake. Regarding trails and sidewalks, he reviewed the two options for a proposed trail along West 78 Street. Currently the City's Transportation Plan for a sidewalk and bicycle trail indicates a future trail along West 79 Street. Currently they do not have any trail there but the desire is to sometime in the future put a trail in there. The developer has agreed to putting the trail into the City's right-of-way which will make the City responsible for maintaining that trail. The project is scheduled to be phased and staff recommended that trail be put in concurrent with the remaining trails in that project. This project was reviewed at the Planning Commission meeting on August 25, 1997 and was approved on a 6-0 vote. Brown expressed concern about the height of the buildings. Fox explained part of the situation with the height of the building also involves the square footage of the building which dictates how much parking they have to have. When you take all factors in terms of what was originally proposed,what their parking lot requirements are,they arc limited on this site as to how many physical site spaces they can have without going into the parking ramp. i Brown asked why there is so much of a sprawl of parking instead of decks. Zillar replied part of the original PUD was to build parking ramps and the concern they had was the total obliteration of the view to 78 Street. The plan before the Commission tends to give the impression that there is an over abundance of asphalt. The plan does not fully recognize the fact that 30 percent of the original 60 acres was dedicated for parking and open space. There is about 12.5 acres that's not in their 42 acre plan that's already been dedicated. When you add that 12.5 acres to their plan,it tends to mitigate some of the issues relative to the asphalt. Koenig asked if tiny of the future buildings are going to be on the existing parking. Zillar said most of it will be built over the existing parking lots. Ililgeman was concerned about how much of the landscaping replacement material will be in trees rather than in shrubs and ornamentals. Zillar said it's almost exclusively in trees. Ililgeman asked what the percentage is of deciduous to conifers. Zillar said about it quarter and Stolar corrected him that it's more like half. Zillar said they arc removing 100 percent deciduous. Hilgeman asked what the reason was for adding 110 more inches than originally planned. Zillar said they were asked to add trees along the lake to provide additional screening of the I 3 A '11 Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,September 15,1997 j structures from the lake. Flilgeman commented it was a good plan but would rather sec less conifers around the site but understands the City asks for this. MOTION: Koenig moved, seconded by Corneille, to approve GE Capital PUD subject to the supplemental staff report and Planning staff report endorsing option #2 for the right-of-way plan for the trail. Motion carried 6-0. B. The Pines-July 1997 Slaffreferrcd the Commission to a memo dated September 11, 1997 from Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources,and a staff report dated August 22, 1997 from Scott A. Kipp,Senior Planner. Perry Ryan, Ryan Engineering, reviewed his development proposal with the Commission including the site plan,grading plan and landscaping plan, As a result of working with the Planning Commission and the neighborhood,the proposal has been reduced to 14 single family units on 5.8 acres which results in density of about 2.4 acres per unit. One recommendation from the Planning Commission was to add a conservation casement along Bluff Road, entirely along the Frontage Road for Highway 169,and a small area to the south to preserve the trees which would be disturbed during construction. They have accepted the recommendation. The tree loss was 31 percent and the replacement will be 216 caliper inches. There will be 67 three-inch trees planted to mitigate the loss. They will work with staff for species of trees and will replace with a majority of the tree species being removed. Staff recommended the use of exclusionary fencing but they would rather use silt fencing which works better when there is grading like this. There will be five additional boulevard trees in addition to the two at the entrance. There will be a joint trench with electric,gas and telephone lines one foot behind the curb which will enable them to save trees. They will use the same construction techniques as used in Boulder Ridge. Hilgcman was concerned units 7,9,and 9 would have only 20 usable feet from the ! ' back of their house to the conservation casement. Ryan explained how they revised the plan and noted it gives them around 24 feet but there is also a side yard. Hilgeman expressed concern about second homeowners or original homeowners not understanding what a conservation casement means. She referred to a previous project where they gave the people 25 feet and it was not nearly enough room. She was concerned because of prior problems about conservation casements eating up a lot of the space. Fox noted they will be using scenic conservation markers as a visual reminder for the homeowners. Flilgcman commented the Commission should be proactive in recommending how big they really want the conservation casement to be and this may be the time to do that. i 4 I r Approved Minutes ` Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,September 15,1997 Brown said the Planning Commission came up with this conservation casement. He asked if they looked at how close the back of the houses were and if the back is a viable size in case the homeowners don't want to utilize the front or side yard. Lambert replied if there's going to be a conservation casement,it should be part of the requirement recommended by the Commission that the developer put those markers in place. He doesn't want to rely on the City doing that. He defined the conservation casement as simply allowing trees to be trimmed but not cut, and having no restrictions on the undergrowth. This way people can maintain the yard if they want to,start going down the hill and encroach with lawns down there as long as they arc leaving the trees in place. Thcre is nothing wrong with that in this situation. Brown was concerned about repair of the roadway 10 years from now and if the City has to repair it. Lambert said the City does not have to accept any road that's private. If the City accepts the road, generally the condition would be to bring it to City standards in terms of width,construction,and condition,otherwise the City would not accept it. Stolar asked for a supplement report with the species plan from the developer. Ryan said they would submit one. Koenig asked if staff was comfortable with the placement of the utilities. Fox explained they had discussions with the developer, Mr. Lunski,and this project is going to be controlled by Mr. Lunski 100 percent of the time. Staff feels j communication needs to be made clearly to the utilities company. There will also be on-site inspection,to make sure what they actually have on the plan is what the contractor puts in. He recommended orange exclusionary fencing because silt fencing is only three feet tall and truck drivers could back into it without even seeing it in their mirror. Koenig asked if the developer would have a plan ready to submit to the City Council regarding the utilities. She also asked staff if it would be okay to have it at least ready by the Second Reading. Fox said it would be sufficient at the Second Reading. Ryan said they could certainly acid additional detail, lie also said they would be willing to use the orange exclusionary fencing as recommended by staff. MOTION: Hilgcman moved,seconded by Stolar,to approve the construction plan ' of the Pines as per staff report of August 22, 1997 with the reminder the developer- put up stakes delineating private property from the conservation casement,present it detailed utility plan and detailed species plan that's available to the City Council by the Second Reading,use five foot high orange exclusionary fencing,and that the Cscenic casement be restricted to preserving existing trees rather than tree mass. Motion carried 6-0. 5 y " 1 { Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,September 15,1997 V1. O1,D BUSINESS A. Second Season Fees and Deadlines for Facility Usage Requests Staff referred the Commission to it memo dated August 28, 1997 from Bob Lambert, Director of Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources. Lambert explained staff had a meeting with the various athletic associations earlier this year.It was indicated to them that staff would come back late in the summer to talk about whether or not staff would be recommending a second season fee and if they wished to establish some deadlines for which they would have to submit their schedules. He noted there were only four associations represented out of I I associations that attended the meeting and this was very disappointing. He referred to the graph chart listing deadlines for submitting field usage requests and dates the City will being reserving to less than Priority 3 groups. They are going to attempt to utilize these dates in 1998. He reiterated the discussion at the meeting about philosophy for charging second season fees or any facility use fees for athletic associations. He reviewed the pros and cons to charging second season fees. One representative referred to it its the"toll road syndrome"for use of parks meaning the only ones who suffer arc the people that can't afford to pay their own way. it There are a lot of different associations that are in partnership with the City for contributing money towards improvements to the facilities,and if they are going to be charged it will reduce membership of those associations. Staff agreed with the associations and recommended not charging second season fees at this time,and to be honest with the associations on field conditions and try to work with them as partners. lie said the City should let the associations know which facilities will be available and work it out from there. The associations were more comfortable with this and staff was more comfortable with it also. It's better to work with the associations who are parents volunteering to provide a lot of recreation for kids in the community,and a better way to approach the problem staff have with keeping facilities in good shape. John Krone, President of Eden Prairie Soccer Club, indicated they have 637 kids , playing this summer and about 410 that play in the fall. They are the traveling club as opposed to the association,and they represent a minimum of 8,000 families in the City of Eden Prairie. He agreed and supported staffs recommendation. All the associations have worked and spent many volunteer hours providing athletic recreation for the kids. This year the Soccer Club contributed by providing j electricity at Miller Park which will benefit everyone and they arc also talking about ; econtributing to Homeward[fills Park to provide irrigation. The members feel very 1 strongly about working in a cooperative effort. They arc paying taxes and would like to do it as it cooperative thing. 9 ;1 6 i l Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources I Monday,September 15,1997 liilgeman commented she appreciated the cooperative aspect of it but noted these people are giving the money to get these facilities upgraded because they want the facilities to use now. They would get electricity in Miller Park but it might take a couple of years and they are not willing to wait. They want it faster so they give the money for immediate gratification for their group. They have chosen to give the money so they can get the things they want now rather than waiting until the City can afford it. Now the City will be held hostage because of this and will have difficulty charging for second season. Lambert explained the reason they don't want to pay second season fees is not because they have given already to the City. The whole point is these are volunteers ; that arc taking their nights and weekends to provide recreation for these kids and the idea of the City charging them for second season makes them feel as though they are being penalized for being willing to volunteer more time. If the City is going to start charging them for use of facilities,that money is not available unless they raise the rates for the kids and the increased costs may make it unaffordable for some. it Hilgeman said she was confused because the whole idea of second season fees came from the City staff themselves because maintenance of these facilities took time away from other projects,and without getting money for it the City can not continue to subsidize. Lambert said the concept of user fees came from the City Council in directing staff to try to find additional funding for maintaining facilities. The only way you find funds is from the user,and earlier this year staff started talking about user fees. The fee would only cover a fraction of the actual cost to provide existing service and the associations may expect unreasonable service for such a small fee, i At this point staff is not ready to take that step, but it was healthy having the discussion.The decision now depends on how badly this Commission and the City Council need an extra$15,000 to$20,000 and if it's worth paying that price. Staff would rather tell the associations which fields are available for use for the second season and they work it out. Discussion continued about the philosophy of whether or not to charge user fees and j the effects it would have. Corneille was concerned there were only four associations represented at the meeting because the message seems to be nobody cares. Brown commented they just voted on a large bond issue for intermural sports to help and his question is how much is enough. If it's a small amount of money for the City then it's a small amount of money for 2,000 kids to pay. Jacobson commented that in the past on various occasions fields have been taken out of use and nothing has been done with them. They did put down dirt in bare spots but didn't put down the grass seed. They didn't do any improvements or upkeep. 7 i' II Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,September 15, 1997 Koenig said they are supposed to be looking at the community as a whole. She respects what the associations do for the kids and totally supports it,but if it's going to be one quarter of the entire park system, they have to make sure they are not squeezing somebody else out also. She was very uncomfortable about the lack of participation at the August 25 meeting and thanked the people that did attend. Stolar stated currently there are no user fees except for tournaments during primary season. It's it question of whether or not to use user fees. Other places where he has worked on commissions,not related to Parks and Recreation, there was a certain percentage recovered for activities from users and that was standard. There is no way the City is going to charge full recovery costs. Jacobson indicated the Soccer Association has had a second season for 18 years so this is nothing new that has happened. Now there are associations that are wanting more and more so this whole thing has gotten a little bigger than it wits before. Lambert apologized to the Commission for the confusion. lie said they just don't have enough staff to take care of all the requests and second seasons take staff away from maintenance tasks that need to occur to keep up the park system. Brown recommended a study Commission meeting with the City Council and staff to determine what the policies should be. 1 MOTION: Jacobson moved, seconded by Corneille, to approve staffs recommendation not to initiate a second season fee at this time and to provide second season fields at this time based upon the August 28 letter from Bob Lambert. Motion curried 4-2 with the no votes by Brown and 1111geman. Brown voted no because in his judgement there has to be a cut off point of subsidy. Hilgeman concurred with Brown. MOTION: Stolar moved,seconded by Hilgeman,to ask staff to work with both the Parks Commission and the City Council to develop a strategy for how they will ' apply user fees to various facilities and associations and other usages of Park and Recreation facilities. Motion carried 6-0. (Commissioner Stolar was excused at 8:50 p.m.) VI1. OLD BUSING A. City School Facility Use Fee Proposal sal 8 f Approved Minutes i+ Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,September 15, 1997 Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 9, 1997 from Laurie I-lelling,Manager of Recreation Services;and a memo dated September 4, 1997 from Jeanne Zetah. Hclling explained the City Council requested staff to evaluate fees relating to City school use of facilitics. As a result of discussions with the School District staff back in 1996 regarding the issue,they ended up developing guidelines for City and school use and was implemented an advisory committee. The committee was made up of representatives of both City and the School District. The committee met seven times i to discuss fees,programs,policies and procedures relating to facilities and as a result came up with some recommendations. ' She reviewed the recommendations from the Advisory Committee, which staff supported, and the recommendations will be presented to the School Board on Wednesday.September 24, 1997. Hilgcman asked if the City ever uses School District space, Hclling said they use it for adult athletic programs and youth programs especially during the fall and winter months,and during the summer when it's too hot and kids have to get inside. The recommendation is the School District will be eliminating their facility rental charges to the City and will only charge for staffing costs which is the same agreement the City has. The City will be charged approximately$9,000 less in 1998 for facility usage fees from the School District, 1 I She reviewed the chart for the proposed fees and charges in 1998 for City facilities used by the School District. She noted there will be an additional $30,000 in revenue for 1998. Each government unit will work cooperatively to eliminate duplication of services and programming. The City will provide recreation oriented programs,and the School District will provide educationally-oriented programs. Koenig asked if the Advisory Committee is on going. Hclling said they agreed to meet if they had issues that merited getting this group together to discuss issues between the City and the School District. MOTION: Corneille moved, seconded by Koenig, to accept City and School Advisory Committee recommendations submitted on the memo of September 9, 1997. Motion carried 5-0. 11. Mitieation Landscape Plan for 17562 Belfast Cove on Mitchell Lake Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated September 11, 1997 from Stuart A. Fox,Manager of Parks and Natural Resources. 9 Approved Minutes j Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources + Monday,September 15,1997 Fox explained staff prepared a rather extensive memo with supporting documentation for the Commission regarding shorcland ordinance violations that occurred on Mitchell lake this past June and July. Staff has met with Mr. Hertig,the owner of the property,and he has submitted a plan to the City to mitigate 108 inches of tree. These were not all significant trees but the Shorcland Code views any vegetation in the shorcland impact zone as being significant. It does allow a property owner to clear views to the lake but it does not get very specific about what size trees can be cut. It only says clear views as long as the view of the primary building is not substantially changed from the lake. j I Joe Hertig,owner,presented his proposed mitigation landscape plan. He apologized to the Commission for not seeking proper channels for the tree removal on his land. He received a lot of misleading advice as well as misinformation. He noted his 4 property has 181 feet of lakeshore and the original plan was to clear around two large oak trees. Three landscapers came out and told him one of the large oak trees was diseased and the second oak tree was dead. That's why he chose that area to clear because there was no view or access to the lake. lie will be rebuilding that area with the same like species of trees for a total of 108 caliper inches. They could not i quite fit it all exactly back in the area so there will be a few pine trees on the site, r Fox presented photographs taken of the property after the trees were removed. Staffs recommendation is to go back to the original plan and run the drainage to the southeast so no drainage would go directly from the backyard into the lake. Staff was comfortable with the proposed plan. I Brown asked if the Commission can request the largest trees possible to be used in the replacement because of the severity of what happened. He noted he was surprised to sec it was only three or four inch trees. Fox replied they can go with the largest trees possible but they don't want to have to replace the trees being put back in there over Lind over. They want them established very quickly. The number of trees being planted there are also going to provide a little more screening when they mature than what was already existing there. The 26 inch oak tree was large but would not provide as much screening if they trimmed up the lower foliage. This plan is probably the best way to establish screening from the shoreline in a short period of time. Kocnig asked if Mr. I Icrtig was willing to take on the responsibility of maintaining the trees. fiertig said yes. 10 i Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,September 15,1997 Brown asked what they are going to put on the lake side of the berm that's going to prevent the new dirt from washing down in the lake. Fox replied usually they use erosion matting which is like a fiber blanket. The intent is to get this expedited and get it on to the City Council for approval at the October 7 meeting and get the work started shortly after that. MOTION: hlilgeman moved, seconded by Koenig, to accept the staff recommendation of September 11, 1997 in the matter regarding the mitigation of tree cutting at 17562 Belfast Covc. Motion carried 5-0. Vill. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF A. Reports of Community Center Manager Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated August 28, 1997 from Joel Klutc, Ice Arena&Concession Coordinator. Klute commented he was very comfortable with the proposed rate increase because the Community Center has been operating on a 28 percent deficit. This has effected some of the users. The Eden Prairie Figure Skating Club is going through growing ; changes and ice demand is getting higher and higher but it's also an expensive sport. Ice rates are 90 percent of the cost. The$12.50 rate increase keeps Eden Prairie competitive with the surrounding communities. He presented n chart of the surrounding communities and highlighted the rates. Denise Munson,President of the Eden Prairie Figure Skating Club,commented an increase of$12.50 is an I I percent increase. It's a huge percent because they arc such a small club. They have only 150 members and don't have the growth that lots of other associations have with 8,000 members. There is no justification for this increase other than the fact that the ice arena is the largest revenue generated at the Community Center,and that the ice is in big demand which is another opportunity to raise the rates. She doesn't believe they have to keep up with other communities on the rate, She was concerned that the deficit is not all coming from the ice arena �! and believes a large portion of it is coming from the pool which has been undercharging their people for the last 9 years. They don't mind paying it$2.50 I increase like they have been or even a$5.00 increase if it's justified. She wants to see that tlu ice arena is losing money so the increase is justified. The membership turnover is about 40 percent a year. Of the people that leave,half of them leave because the cost is too high. This increase is going to hurt the C 11 J i Approved Minutes I Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,September 15,1997 membership badly. They already spend about$85,000 to$95,000 on ice and will have to increase their rates substantially to the members who are already complaining about how high the ice is. Corneille asked how many of the members arc Eden Prairie residents. Munson said it's 95 percent Eden Prairie residents. Brown asked how much more will it cost the skaters as a result of this increase. j Munson replied at least$250.00 going from$550.00 to$750,00. She noted that figure skaters have to skate every day for competitive figure skating. I I Paula Dow, Ice Coordinator, commented a lot of the members may go to Edina ! where the rates are lower and the increase will cause their club to fold up. It seems unreasonable for the City to give such a large increase without any justification at all. l I-lilgeman asked if they provide any scholarships for kids that can't afford the club. Munson said there isn't at this time. The Twin Cities Figure Skating Association does provide scholarships for kids that are in skating communities. However,they t have to be at a very high competitive level. s Brown asked when was the last time there was a rate increase imposed on the ice rink. Lambert replied they increased the ice rink fees this year. The direction from the City Council has been for staff to have a goal of trying to operate the Community Center on a break even basis recognizing it would be difficult to do. With that goal in mind,the users are supposed to pay for that facility as much as possible but not to charge Eden Prairie kids out of line with the other metro facilities with similar type of facilities. Therefore,each year they monitor the average rink costs with the highest and the lowest,and they try to be near the top because they have not reached their goal of operating on a break even basis. They have not raised pool rates in eight years because they have been the highest in the metro area. There is still over a $100,000 subsidy to operate the Community Center. The City subsidizes pool users more than skaters,but the pool users are at the top of the rental fee schedule j for the metro area,while there arc four to rive rinks charging more than we propose. Brown asked how much more are skaters going to spend for figure skating. Munson said she has two daughters that skate and her ice bill for a three month period is about$1,200. Tile increase would probably he$150.00 for it three month period per skater. 12 I ( Approved Minutes 1 Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,September 15, 1997 Jacobson was concerned that the increase was$12.50 this year, last year it was$ 2.50,and the year before it was$5.00. Klute said the main reason is they are not reaching their goal of breaking even. Everybody else is raising rates so they have to also. I f they don't raise it this year,next year it will double. Jacobson asked f'or a two year plan and this way the skating club would be forewarned of the situation. Comcillc asked why they need to catch up to the other communities. Lambert said they are not getting any closer and there have always been three or four communities ahead of Eden Prairie. All of the communities increase rates at different levels each year. Eden Prairie has never been the highest. Until the Council directs staff otherwise, our goal will continue to be to meet operating expenses and provide competitive rental rates. Corneille asked why this year is higher than the other years. Lambert replied simply because they dropped quite it bit further behind over the last two or three years. I-Ic noted new rinks have opened up at quite a bit higher rates than Eden Prairie, Eden C Prairie has fallen further behind and they have now decided to make an adjustment. Flilgeman commented they have made concessions in the spirit of cooperating with almost every other group that's come before the Commission and second season fee j issue is just one example. It doesn't seem right in this point to do this nor does it I seem fair. Dow indicated they are a consistent user and arc there all year round. There are no hockey clubs in there during the summer. Koenig asked if using non-prime-time hours would help them at all. Dow said they use whatever is left over from the high school, In the summer time they do use the cheaper rates but have to use whatever is available to them in the winter. She noted 75 percent of their time is prime-time rates. Koenig was concerned that skating is going to be it sport only for the rich kids whether it be hockey or figure skating. She would like to see an increase but not$12.50, Corneille said they need fundamental strategics to solve the deficit problem of the Community Center. lic liked the philosophy of staying within 5 percent off the top but do it in increments.They cannot tic it to the deficit because the deficit must be growing faster than the rates are. Lambert said that was not his intent. As long as they arc operating in a deficit the goal was to try to keep the rates up near the top of rental fees in the metro area, C 13 t Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,September 15,1997 MOTION: Jacobson moved that the 1998 fees will be$125.00 for winter prime- time,$95.00 for winter non-prime-time,$110.00 for summer prime-time,$95.00 for summer non-prime-time;and the fees for 1999 will be$135.00 for winter prime- time,$105.00 for winter non-primc-time,$120.00 for summer prime-time,$105.00 for summer non-prime-time. The motion failed due to luck of u second. I Lambert said that would result in a $16,000 loss of revenue next year for the S community center. lie said when they did their budget requests for 1998, staff indicated to the City Council what the recommended fees are going to be and they balanced the budget based on$130.00 per hour. The City Council may agree with t this change but they will want to find the $16,000 from somewhere else in the budget. Hilgeman noted they could have gotten$20,000 from second season user fees. Corneille said he would rather use a two year percentage figure than to control what the rates should be. This will give the clubs a warning and it would not be a big surprise. Klutc noted there is never a complete surprise and there has always been a minimum increase of$2.50. He said he would get the Commission a percentage rate. MOTION: Jacobson moved,seconded by Corneille,for staff to come back to the Commission with a two-year plan on increasing the fees in a more gradual palatable way in keeping with the cooperation of the spirit of partners within the City. Motion curried 5-0. 2. Summarx of Oak Point First Year of Operation Staff indicated this was an FYI item. IX. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Jacobson moved,seconded by 1-lilgeman, to adjourn the meeting. Motion =} curried 5-0. The meeting adjourned at 10:35 p.m. C 14