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Parks and Recreation - 08/18/1997 I 1997 I AUGUST 18 MINUTES Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE � 1 it l I ( AGENDA r PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY,AUGUST 18, 1997 7:00 P.M.CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS COMMISSION MEMBERS: Richard Brown, Chair, Frantz Corneille, Claire Hilgcman Don Jacobson, Vicki Koenig,Glenn Stolar,John Wilson STUDENT MEMBERS: Jennifer Freemyer,Melody Hasse i COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources; Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and ! Natural Resources; Laurie Helling, Manager of Recreation Services j 1. ROLL CALL fintmduction of new m mbcr Jcnn tit 1Iar1 i 11. APPROVAL.OF AGENDA Ill, APPROVAL OF MINUTES AUGUST 4 1997 IV. PETITIONS.REO I STS AND OM INICATIONS A. Request to Relocate Basketball Court in Franlo Park B. Letter from Jeff Strate Rc• Concerns About Winer O unity at Round Lake Beach V. DEVEI.OPMI;NT PROPOSALS VI. OLD 13 1SIN FSS A. Community Ce or Pail lntproycmcn1. IIVAC $y%tem Pool Filtration Improvements an I Proposed Rate Inercas s �.=s B. l ultc f-lomcs-Fr ision Control Status VII. NEW BUSINESS A. Cancellation of Open Skating VIII. ADJOURNMENT I C I i APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS,RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY,AUGUST 18, 1997 7:00 P.M.CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS COMMISSION MEMBERS: Richard Brown, Chair; Frantz Corneille, Claire Flilgeman, Don Jacobson, Vicki Koenig, Glenn Stolar,John Wilson COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: None COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A.Lambert,Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources;Stuart A.Fox,Manager of Parks and Natural Resources. Eiycc Kastigar, Community Center Manager; Elinda Bahlcy,Recording Secretary STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Jennifer I--recmycr(absent),Melody Hasse(absent) 1. ROLL CALL(introduction of new member.Glenn Stolar) i �• Chair Brown called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Commissioner Wilson arrived at 7:08 p.m. Lambert introduced new member, Glenn Stolar, noting he has been involved in Parks and Recreation for it long time and will be a big asset for the Commission. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA MOTION: Koenig moved, seconded by Jacobson, to approve the agenda as published. Motion carried 6-0. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES-AUGUST 4,1997 ,.. MOTION: Jacobson moved,seconded by Koenig,to approve the minutes of the August 4, 1997 Eden Prairie Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Commission as published. Motion carried 5-0-I with one abstention by Hilgeman. IV. PETITIONS.REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. Request to Relocate Basketball Court in Franlo Park Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated August 11, 1997 and a letter dated July 17, 1997 from Bob Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources;and it group of letters from the residents of Franlo Park. I Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,August 18,1997 Lambert explained he had discussions with Allen McNec and Casey Quinn about two or three years ago regarding the court noise that was causing problems with their home. The complaints were people using the court at odd hours or bringing boom boxes to the court. Staff addressed most of that with aggressive poi:^ing and park ranger patrols. The problem has continued fir that family with d►c noise of the basketball bouncing in the court. It has become an irritant that has grown over the years and they have requested the City do something to eliminate that. lie reviewed the four options the Commission could recommend to the City Council and noted that notices were sent out to the neighborhood about this matter. This request has generated more discussion and calls and letters than anything for a while that's effected any park. Fie highlighted the comments received from different letters in opposition of removing the basketball court. 'there wits only one letter supporting the removal of the basketball court. (Commissioner Wilson arrived at 7:08 p.m.) Allen McNce, 10317 Franlo Road,noted they are the first homeowner of this home and the court is only 20 feet away from their property line. Fie is an avid sports fan of basketball. They had no idea living so close to the court would have any kind of negative impact. All of the bedroom windows face the court and no other home in that area has the same problem or file same level of discomfort as they do. They have visited every park in Eden Prairie and no other park has it basketball court as close to a home as their home is. Ile indicated the Commission members did come to his home to listen to the noise. The problem is not going to go away and will be there with the next homeowner. They will have to disclose this information to any future buyers which will have an impact on the value of their home and the entire area. Ile referred to the July 16 issue of the Sun Current depicting a gentleman from St. Louis Park playing basketball. F-Ic thinks there are probably a fair -; amount of people that come to use that court who don't live there,yet they , are the ones negatively impac►cd by it. Their objective is to find a resolution that meets the needs of them and the rest of the people in the area. Casey Quinn, 10317 hranlo Road.commented it's a serious problem and no one in her neighborhood can understand what the problem is unless they were to live in her house. The problem is different for even one house away but the problem is magnified for than. Amanda Jackson, 10567 Lcc Drive,was opposed to moving the basketball court using $15,000 of taxpayers'money. If there are people abusing the 2 Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,August 18,1997 court,the police should be called. There is it curfew that should be enforced. The park and playing fields were there when this family purchased their home. This is only a seasonal problem. If this family wants it moved,they should pay for it and not the taxpayers. Steve Rath, 10335 Franlo Road,commented he has three sons and noted his house is the closest to the playground to the right of the basketball court. lie said the court is used infrequently and is used on an average of less than an hour a clay from his observations. He moved into this neighborhood about it year ago and one of the reasons they moved there was because of the facility. 1-Ic and his wife discussed at length whether they wanted to be next to a park or not because there were positive and negative impacts. His house has at least as much noise as the McNce's home because there arc kids in the playground from sunup to sundown. It's a hangout for teenagers at night and the police records would probably show its much,if not more,calls for the playground area. This is something they realized before moving in. He was concerned about setting it precedent because in the future people could ask for the playground to be removed because of all the noise. He supported limiting the hours of use so it's not early morning or late in the evening. Relocating it would be very hard to accept. lie was also opposed to putting a basketball court right next to the playground because this would be a compounded noise for them. He supported enforcing the provisions to keep the hours of play within the hours. lie noted there has been one individual that has irritated this situation in terms of the boom box and playing late at night,which has turned this into it huge problem. Tamara Rath, 10355 Franlo Road,supported what her husband said. It took them five years to look for it house and one of the reasons they moved there was for the facility. She was also concerned about setting a precedent. Steve Hertz, 10300 Anchorage Ridge,noted they have lived there five years and the facilities at Franlo Park arc second to none. The main concern here are the kids and when you put something out there that keeps the kids playing basketball or softball, the City has done their job. The park was there first and a lot of people moved there because of the park. He frequents the park often with his daughter and her friends and he has never seen beer cans or drug paraphernalia. The kids are going there to play basketball. If they arc going there to use the park, they better be able to use the park because that's what the tax dollars are going for, 4 lie suggested the City fix the north basket because it's clanging and then ; people would use it instead of using the south basket all the time. He noted 3 3 I Approved Minutes (' Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,August 18, 1997 his father-in-law lives in the townhomes directly across from the park and he said to tell the City to fix the backboard on the other end. lie said he has monitored the park and has not seen anyone there early in the morning before 9:30 or 10:00 a.m. He would rather have the kids there than someplace else Rick Anderson, 1742 Grant Drive, noted he has lived there 13 years and moved in when it was a cornfield. He and his family use the park a lot at least twice a day. He and his wife kept a record for the last two weeks and have not seen anyone playing basketball. Four of his neighbors across the street have basketball hoops and two neighbors on either side of him have hoops which are only 30 feet from his house. He has not noticed any thumping of basketballs and it has not been a problem for them. He supported all the comments said previously by his neighbors. They should be encouraging the kids to be in the park and using the facilities, not restricting them. If there is$15,000 to invest in that park,the City should put in drinking water and bathrooms,not take away from anything there. A resident residing at 10325 Franlo Road,commented she is aware of the problem and does hear the noise when the windows are open. They have `. planted quite it few trees which seem to be absorbing quite a bit of the sound. They do hear the noise but it's not a problem for them. She supported all the comments made by the residents. She has two children and they all use the park. She suggested the planting of trees to try to offset some of the noise. j She supporting limiting the hours of use. Her husband works during the night and sleeps during the day with the windows open. The window does face the court but the noise is not enough to bother them. John Bowers, 10305 Arrowwood Drive,was concerned that the court not be removed from the park. Fie has two children that use the park frequently. One of the main reasons he moved there was to be near the park. Susan Murakami, 10341 Fmnlo Road,noted they are the first homeowners to build on the south side of Franlo Park. Her children's bedroom is on the , west side of the house near the playground and there is quite a bit of noise. She supported reducing the hours but not removing the basketball court. Molly Dunning, 10112 Bluff'Road, was very disturbed the City would consider one family's complaint and invest spending$15,000 on a project when 30 families have voiced major concern on the speed of traffic on Bluff Road. According to the City, nothing can be done about that. This is a seasonal sport and this family will not be bothered 12 months out of the year. One individual is causing this family it great disturbance and the rest of the neighborhood should not have to suffer for the bad situation created there. 4 i Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,August 18, 1997 She supported reducing the hours of play and the planting of trees. Brown commented removing the basketball court is just one option. It's the City's obligation to say it's$15,000 in tax money. It's just information and is just one consideration. Dunning said the stop sign is not even up for consideration but this the City can consider. Marilyn Bose, 10347 Franlo Road,noted they back up to a baseball field and moved there four years ago. They considered the McNee's house but decided j not to buy it because they did not want to back up to a basketball court. They have to deal with a lot of noise from the baseball field and knew that 9 1 from the beginning,but they deal with it. They made a decision to back up j to a baseball field and they live with it. She supported limiting the hours and j the plantings of trees. She would like a solution to this problem because she i does empathize with the McNees. Jack Bowers, 10305 Arrowwood Drive,noted he was a student who used this park and it's not fair when he and his sister and friends use it and obey the j curfew. Action should be taken against the person causing the problems. �. hlilgeman asked if it would be a problem if the hours were limited to 8:00 a.m.to 8:00 p.m. Bowers said it would not be a problem. r Corneille asked if it would be acceptable if the hours were changed from l 8:00 a.m.to 8:00 p.m. Quinn said they arc willing to work with this. She realized they arc the only house that has the problem of the thumping of the basketball. It's more continuous than hitting a baseball. The playing of children is music but the thumping of a basketball is not. Limiting hours is a problem for her because she personally is the lady of enforcement as it is and she has to enforce the hours. Regarding the resident whose neighbor has a basket, it's only one family using it. On a public court there are many families. During the last couple of weeks it has been quiet. It starts in April N and it usually falls off by mid summer. The noise really is insufferable. McNce commented they have already invested in a privacy fence that failed to soften the noise of the thumping. They would be interested in discussing financing the removal of the court. He would wants a compromise to this problem. Quinn said they had no idea that the thumping would be a problem and that's why they bought their house. They weren't concerned about the regular C noise of a playground. Again,they were the first owners and there were not that many children around when they bought their home. 5 1 f Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,August 18, 1997 Corneille asked if they consulted with anybody on what kind of fence to put in. Quinn said they just bought a fence. They did have it approved by the development. It's a solid privacy fence. Koenig inquired about installing something in the windows to keep the noise out. Quinn said you can't dampen the noise with the windows open. She did not want to have to close her windows on nice days. Brown stated he spoke to a builder who recommended triple glass windows or all weather glass windows. The drapery people said they do have some lined drapes which might soften the noise. Hilgeman would not support either a half court or moving the court for the simple reason that the park needs the basketball facility in order to make it the park it was meant to be. She does not believe in reducing what they already have in any park. Any type of discussion from the Commission to the City Council would involve a plan to fix the backboard and limiting the hours according to staffs recommendation. She supported some natural screening because it would increase the aesthetic value of that park as well as provide some type of sound reduction to those people. She also noted the Parks Commission hits nothing to do with stop signs. Lambert said they will investigate the need for repair on the one backboard. ' If it's just a backboard it would cost about $300 to $400. The Highway Department used to use lots of vegetation to reduce noise and found that vegetation does have some impact on the high pitched noise but lower pitched,like the thumping of a basketball,it has very little impact at all. lie does not want to lead this family to believe that a couple of trees will have an impact on the noise. Brown inquired about other complaints concerning this one person. Lambert said one. One person was causing some problems and he went to his home and spoke to him personally and to his mother as well. Quinn commented s she called the police twice last weekend on that same person. Stolar asked if there have been requests anywhere else for hour limitations because the recommendation is to change the ordinance overall to give the Director that authority to set hours. If there are other complaints or other needs besides this instance, he would like to take that into consideration. Lambert said he has not received any other requests. This will give the j Director the ability to handle situations like this without all of this in the future. He is not a proponent of giving staff a lot of latitude in limiting the use of park racilitics but there also should be some provision in the ordinance r; 6 it r I t' Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,August 18,1997 to address the needs of particular facilities that may cause problems. City staff do not recommend making ordinances for specific situations. Stolar was in favor of giving the Commission the responsibility for that type of limitation based on the Director's recommendation. Koenig said if the Commission recommended a change in hours,she would encourage enforcement of the park rangers so the McNees don't have to be the cop in the neighborhood. i Rick Anderson suggested a study be done to get a real number of times the court is utilized. He also suggested the hours be from sunup to sundown like Hennepin Parks do and put a gate down there for when the park is closed. MOTION: Wilson moved•seconded by Hilgeman,to recommend that staff fix the backboard and that hours on the court be limited to 8:00 a.m.to 8:00 p.m. and ask the City to give the Director some authority on changing the hours. The ordinance would allow the Director to make recommendations to the Parks Commission to change hours on recreation facilities. Motion carried 7-0. i B. letter from leftStrate ReConcerns About water Qualities at Round Lake Beach Lambert indicated this was an FYI item. V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS None, V1. OLD BUSI-NESS A. Community Center Pool Improvement. IIVAC-System and Pool f Filtration Improvements and Proposed Rate Increases Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated August 13. 1997 from Bob Lambert,Director of Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources:and a mento dated August 14, 1997 from Elyce Kastigar,Community Center Manager. L:mibert explained the Community Center pool improvements have been on hold and are ready to get plans and specifications completed and ready to go to bid. At one point the entire project was under Water Technology I Incorporated. Stiff has been frustrated because they were very slow so a 7 I ( Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,August 18, 1997 Water Technology suggested splitting the project and have Erickson, Ellison and Associates to do the heating and ventilation. Water Technology will do the water circulation portion or the project. The cost estimate for the heating ventilation improvement is$290,000 and the pool filtration upgrade is about $70,000. Staff recommended going forward with this project and use cash park fees only because there is no other source of funding available. Staff also recommended a rate increase to recoup somc of those costs. He explained the proposed rate increases and the rationale for recommending the rate increases. He noted this is the first time staff has recommended prime time, non prime time, and discounted pool rates. The direction from the City Council concerning the Community Center has always been to try to meet operating costs,try to charge the going rate for similar City facilities in the area but not to price the kids out of the facilities. They want the users to pay for the use of the facilities. The School District has agreed that they should pay up to what the rate should be for what the operating costs are but they want to pay the same as �- everyone else for the same time period. Everyone can benefit from this change and the City can generate close to$30,000 a year additional income to pay for this$360,000 project. Wilson was concerned whether the money would go back to cash park fees or into the general fund. Lambert said it would go into the general fund to help pay for operating costs. This project will push some of the park shelter buildings in the Capital Improvement Plan(CIP)a little further out into the future. Wilson asked if this project will enable them to raise the temperature of the pool so the older people who have quit can come back. Kastigar replied during the summer they raised the water temperature back up to 83 degrees. f'` Water Technology believes they will have a swimming pool that is good enough for competitive swimmers and all the different users. This will be a well quality pool as far as air and water quality and should be able to be operated at 83 degrees year round. Koenig was concerned about the ozone system. Lambert said he would like to operate this pool with these changes for a year or two without ozone. Water Technology experts said there is no need to put in ozone for the type of use in the pool. This will be as good as any pool in the state with these changes and no ozone. Ozone allows operation of the pool with just a very fraction of the chlorine that they operate on now and will eliminate the smell. I 8 Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,August 18, 1997 It would also reduce corrosion of metal hardware,etc.in the pool area. Hilgeman asked if there is an ordinance or policy that states the City cannot use cash park fees for maintenance and repair. Lambert said the State law allows the City to collect cash park fees to provide a park and open space system. In the past,the Council has committed to reimbursing the fund for funding maintenance and repair projects. Jacobson suggested requiring the Foxjcts to be members of the Community Center, which costs $140 a year, and it will give them rights to all the amenities Wilson noted prior to the second ice rink being built,the Hockey Association agreed they would get a discounted rate for ice. Now the Hockey Association pays the same rate everybody else pays and there are no discounted rates for ice at any time. Fie said the rating structure is fair though he's not a swimming person. Mark Davis,president of the Foxjcts,supported the upgrades to the pool but was concerned about the rate increase from$22,000 to$34,000 a year just for the Eden Prairie Community Center Pool not including Oak Point Pool, i This a huge increase for their organization. They are already the highest program in terms of what they pay for pool time in the state of Minnesota and not even close to anyone else. He was concerned that further increases are going to cause people to look elsewhere for other programs at less of a cost. To send two children to swim on the Foxjcts costs$1,500 a year and it takes a good income for any family to afford that. He was also concerned about the start date being January. Their season starts in the middle of the year and they don't have any ability to increase the rates. He asked the Commission to consider modification of starting the increase after June I or preferably when they start next season,September I. Either 's one would be acceptable. He also asked to limit prime time hours,instead of 6:00 a.m.to 6:00 p.m.Monday through Friday,change it to 6:00 a.m,to 5:00 p.m. Monday through Friday and from noon until 3:00 p.m. on Saturday. This will keep a majority of their rates at an increase of up to$40 from the existing $35. This represents a 14 percent increase and is something they can get their membership to pay. Frantz asked if there are any fund raisers to help the kids pay. Davis said they always host the State Championships for the state of Minnesota. They just started talking about doing a swimathon where the kids get people to pledge them,for example,25 cents a lap. 9 i i Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,August 18,1997 Wilson asked if they would be able to participate in something like the Mighty Ducks Grant that the Hockey Association did in order to generate funding. Davis said they are not a cash rich organization. The Hockey Association has 700 members and the Foxjets only have 250 members. It costs them $100,000 a year to have professional coaches. It's a different financial structure with swimming. Brown commented the other associations arc contributing thousands of dollars to help defray some of the overhead. Even though the Foxjcts'costs go up, they have to keep in mind almost 50 percent of the people in Eden Prairie have no children participating in anything and it becomes unfair that j the City should be subsi�izing the Foxjcts. The Foxjcts are paying the same as they did eight years ago and the City is not asking for a whole lot.Over an eight year period the City has been subsidizing the Foxjcts and do not need to spend$360,000 if it were not for the competitive swim teams. Davis said the Foxjcts have been paying the same money for the last eight years but they were probably 10 or 20 times over the average swim club versus only two or three times higher. Stolar commented his wife has been a competitive swimmer all her life and indicated the pool is not enjoyable the way the ventilation is now but j certainly adequate for her non-competitive needs. It's strictly for competitive reasons that it needs to be upgraded. Davis stated you can't run it swim team with volunteer coaches like in hockey or soccer. They spend a lot of money each year on professional coaches. 'fhcir expenses tire mainly pool time and coaches. Koenig was sympathetic to the Foxjcts but these arc expensive sports and People have to expect to spend money. They have to look at the City as a whole and if they're going to spend half a million dollars to fix that pool for it relatively small number of Eden Prairie residents,it means taking money y away from other areas where it larger citizenry might benefit. MOTION 1: Wilson moved, seconded by Jacobson,to approve the staff j recommendations relative to the improvements at the Eden Prairie Community Center Pool as described in the staff memo with a comment from the Parks and Recreation Commission that they will support the staff recommendations that the project be done,but don't support the use of cash park fees for these kinds of maintenance problems. Motion failed 34 with the no votes by Corneille,Brown,Koenig and Hilgeman. 10 i iI I Approved Minutes j Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources j Monday,August 18, 1997 MOTION 2: Hilgeman moved, seconded by Corneille, to do the Community Center Pool improvements, HVAC system and pool filtration improvements, but not with cash park fees. Motion carried 7-0. MOTION 3: Corneille moved, seconded by Wilson, to accept staffs recommendation for rate increase as stated in the August 13 memo. Motion carried 7-0. B. Pulte Homes- R rnctnn('antral Status � Lambert indicated this was an FYI item. i i VI1. NEW BUSINESS SS A. ' Cancellation of Open Skating t Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated August 14, 1997.from Elyce Kastigar,Community Center Manager. 4.. Kastigar explained the Eden Prairie Hockey Association will be hosting their ` annual tournaments. These tournaments have been at the Eden Prairie Community Center for the past nine years. 'this year 32 teams from all over the state of Minnesota will be participating in each tournament. The revenue generated from these tournaments will be highly profitable for the Community Center. The Eden Prairie Hockey Association requests to rent the ice for their tournaments during public Open Skate times. She reviewed the dates of the tournaments and the Open Skate dates and times that these tournaments would cancel. There is an additional request not included in the memo from the Figure }� Skating Club. Last year, for the first time,they held the Minnesota Figure Skating Championships at the Community Center and are repeating that again this year. The dates for cancellation of Open Skate to accommodate the Figure Skating Club would be Saturday,September 27.and Open Skate time efl'ected would be 1:00 p.m, to 2:30 p.m. and 6:30 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. Also,Sunday,September 29 from 1:00 p.m.to 3:00 p.m. MOTION: Wilson moved, seconded by Koenig, to accept staffs recommendation according to the memo of August 12, 1997. Motion carried 7-0. 11 Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources 3 Monday,August 18,1997 f Hilgeman commented she had discussion with a senior lifetime member of the Community Center who was concerned that on a daily basis at how many people use the facility without paying. She said people walk in and they are not members and are never asked for their cards. Kastigar said it's a concern that staff recognizes and hope to bring to the Commission and City Council some solutions to help them control access into the facility. Most Community Centers are built very open and it's real easy for people to access the facility without paying when there are no controlled entrances. There are some low cost solutions they can implement to better control access into the facility. VI11. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Stolar moved,seconded by Corneille,to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried 7-0. The meeting adjourned at 9:35 p.m. t r 4 12