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Parks and Recreation - 07/21/1997 i 1997 I DULY 21 MINUTES Parks, Recreation & Natural � Resources Commission CITY OF EDEN PRAIRIE !p i AGENDA PARKS,RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY,JULY 21, 1997 7:00 P.M.CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS COMMISSION MEMBERS: Richard Brown, Chair, Frantz Corneille, Clairc Hilgcman Don Jacobson,Vicki Koenig,David Kracum,John Wilson STUDENT MEMBERS: Jennifer Freemyer,Melody Hasse COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources. Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Laurie Hclling, Manager of Recreation Services 1. ROLL. .AL 1 II• APPROVAL OF AGF �r+� I11. APPROVAL OF MINI 1TF4Z If JI Y 7 tao� v`• IV. PETITIONS P Pnf IF4T4 ANDCIOMMIINICAT, ON A. LyCns: V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSAL 4 I A. W, nst n VI. OI.D B I 141N - A. Millerinrine ImprOVement PmjWrt n VI1. NEW B1141NF4C A. EYllhtation of PI rviro m I Pronorils for RileyLake Park Vill. REPORTS OF('OMMmCIONCRS AND 4TAEL A. Rcoorts of Mitn f Parke nn d N iturnl k ~Darr . I. Update on Deer MnnaUarag t Pr^g= 2. Report in Biz Woody j _ Residents M^�ri.,, f IN. ADJOURNMFNT I APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PARKS,RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY,JULY 21,1997 7:00 P.M.CITY CENTER 8080 MITCHELL ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS COMMISSION MEMBERS: Richard Brown, Chair; Frantz Corneille, Claire Hilgcman, Don Jacobson, Vicki Koenig, David Kracum,John Wilson COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: David Kracum,John Wilson COMMISSION STAFF: Robert A. Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources;Stuart A. Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural f Resources; Elinda Bahley, Recording Secretary 3. STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Jennifer Frccmycr,Melody Hassc 1. ROLL CALL t ai Chair Brown called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. t I1. APPROVAL OF AGENDA j MOTION: Koenig moved,seconded by Elilgcman,to approve the agenda as published. Motion curried 5-0. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES-JULY 7.1997 Koenig noted on page 3, change the last sentence to...they would like to keep as many of the trees as possible. Koenig noted on page 6, the second sentence should be.., by the casement of 50 feet on f either side of the trail. MOTION: Corneille moved,seconded by Koenig,to approve the minutes of the July 21. 1997 Eden Prairie Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission as amended. Motion carried 5-0. IV. PETITIONS.REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS A. ns?uc i ti { 2 � Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,July 21,1997 V. DEVELOPMENT PROPOSALS S A. Wynstone Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated July 17, 1997 from Stuart A.Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources.and a staff report dated July 11, 1997 from Michael D.Franzen,City Planner. ! Jim Jasper, developer, reviewed the development proposal with the Commission I including the site plan and landscaping plan. The proposal is for nine single family lots with minimum lot size of 13,500 square feet and the balance of the property on i the south and cast butts into 22 hvinhome sites. The twinhome project is intended primarily to answer the response to the need for housing for 55 and older people. The homes will sell in the price range of approximately$140,000 to 177,000. ! 1 He reviewed the concerns of the tree loss and gave background information about the piece of property and how they perceive this property. He explained that over time some of the people planted apple trees and nearly all of the trees on the tree inventory wcrc clustered around the houses that arc there now. Most of those trees �. in their estimation arc too large to successfully move. Therefore,they took the most pessimistic view point of what the tree loss would be and calculated that into what the tree loss is expected to be. This is one of the reasons the tree loss is so high. They arc also faced with the dilemma of how to connect the road system,meet the City standards of grade,and make this all work out. There arc some mature trees around the house in the middle that look suspicious in terms of their health and the quality of the trees being lost is not necessarily high. The tree replacement plan will nearly double the caliper inches that will be planted on the property compared to what is there now. Two retaining wails arc proposed along the southerly border similar to what was proposed at St,Andrew's Bluff on the other side of the road. The plan is to construct a wall and soften it with plantings along the wall so as they mature they won't end up with a solid mass wall. There has been such an increasing change in the market in terms of housing that it's appropriate that a community like Eden Prairie look at sites,other than those they currently have guided under their plan,as to the appropriateness for housing like this. r Fox reviewed the staff report with the Commission. There were 39 trees found L 2 i Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,July 21, 1997 significant under the ordinance on this site. In addition,there are 38 Elms on the site which were not considered significant because of the designation of the ordinance. Of the significant trees on the site, most of them are what is called, household or normal landscaping trees. Since this is an older neighborhood, a number of trees were planted. However, staff was directed by the City Council,when a similar project came in over on Franlo Road, to consider all trees as, per ordinance, as significant and that's the reason the staff report does reflect that. 23 of the trees would be lost on the site primarily because of the extensive grading that needs to go in to make the road path,as well as the utilities,and that's a tree loss of 57 percent. Basically, 16 of the 39 trees would be saved. In the landscaping plan, the developer is required to mitigate 236 inches of trees. However,they have a plan that represents about 363 inches. Staff did have some concerns about the limited usage of trees that are basically three varieties selected, sugar maples.Norway maples,and Black Hills spruce. The replacement is 4:1 so every tree being lost will be mitigated with four replacement trees. A NURP pond is proposed in the south central portion of the project. This pond f would have to be reviewed by the City Engineering Department to check for size i correctness and also outflow rates. Overflow from the NURP pond will go t southward and exit onto the lot south of the property. Easement for discharge of water will be necessary in order to have this pond discharge as shown. JJi There is an existing five foot concrete sidewalk along the westerly side of Baker I Road. Staff requested that the five foot sidewalk be continued southward to the j southerly end of the proposed Wynstone development. This sidewalk will be installed in the County's right-of-wary and the developer would be responsible for installation,as per, Hennepin County design criteria. This project was reviewed at the July 14, 1997 Planning Commission meeting. It was not approved 4-1-2. Mike Franzen's concerns seem to be about the density issue with the multi-family and the units per acre that were proposed. Jim Branzcr, Eden Prairie resident, indicated where he lives on the map. He noted he was not against the development because it's positive for the City, but he was uncomfortable with high density. Before he bought his home he was told it would be low density. There is a big drainage ditch on the side of his house and he was concerned if this project would be draining towards his house. fie was also not looking forward to looking at a cement wall in the back. Everyone in his area have small children and are concerned about the increase of cars in the area. 3 ( Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,July 21, 1997 Scott Rankman, Eden Prairie resident,commented looking out his windows to the north all they see are trees and was concerned about the tree loss. He was also concerned about the houses blocking their view of Baker Road and the wildlife in the area. He was opposed to the guide plan change from low to high. Prior to buying his house he checked out the zoning and now it's being changed. Jasper commented that these residents are going to be primarily impacted by four j buildings that back up to the southerly boundary line. The mass of those buildings is really not much greater than it would be for two-story homes with three cur garages. Furthermore,these twinhomcs are proposed to be further from the property line that it would have to be for single family homes. Regarding the drainage,they are not permitted to drain on somebody else's property without an casement and the Engineering Department will require that they address that issue. The reason for the t concrete wall is they are durable and require no maintenance. They have texture and color and are not a plain concrete wall. hie stressed that they intend to soften the wall with landscaping as much as possibly ! ti Koenig asked about the health of the existing trees. Fox said there are some that are damaged just like any typical yard tree. hie didn't see anything major that would discount any of the trees that were counted on the inventory. Koenig asked if the developer would be willing to increase the number of varieties 1 in the replacement plan as suggested by staff. Jasper said they would be willing to consider variety and would like some direction from staff as to what they think ! appropriate variety is. Koenig asked that the developer come back and show the I Commission what his plan is. Fox replied if the Commission wants to make a recommendation they can certainly carry that recommendation forward to the City Council on August 5, 1997. Hilgeman commented she was happy with the 4:1 requirement. She was not happy with the density change and the transition on the southern side. This is no different than the Planning Commission approving previously what was 100 percent tree loss on in fill lots. It's hard to deny it when the replacement plan looks really good. Koenig noted the 100 percent tree loss was it commercial/industrial site where tree loss is generally higher than it is at residential. Drown was concerned whether the two large homes on the north edge of the property are about the same size as the homes that exist on the expensive addition on top. Jasper did not know and noted that question came up at the public hearing of the Planning Commission. The neighbors in that development seem to be concerned 4 i :a r'1 S Approved Minutes ['arks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,July 21,1997 about the value of their neighborhood if these homes do not continue in the price range of$265,000 to$330,000. If you look at the surrounding neighborhoods,the expensive homes are the exception. He said they feel they are doing what was character of the neighborhood. They intend to customize all those homes and it will be simply what the market demands. Koenig referred to the Hennepin County sidewalk and asked if they can require the developer to put that in when it's actually on Hennepin County property. Fox said yes and briefly explained the process. Brown asked if this plan could be redesigned and still be financially feasible to come out with less density,less excavation,less runoff and more replacement. Jasper said it's not economically feasible at a lower density than what's been proposed. MOTION: Hilgeman moved, seconded by Jacobson, to approve the Wynstonc Development with the requirement that the developer will meet with staff to come up with definite plans that include more diversity and make every attempt to reduce tree loss. Koenig said since this was tumcd down by the Planning Commission she would have appreciated the developer taking the recommendation a little more serious before they got to the Parks Commission to come up with a better landscape plan. Brown was uncomfortable with the motion because he thought the whole plan could be redesigned where there is not 57 percent tree loss. The motion failed on a 2-3 vote with the no votes by Brown, Corneille, and Koenig. V1, OLD BUSINESS A. Miller Sprier Improvement Proiect !' Staffreferred the Commission to a memo dated July 10, 1997,from Bob Lambert, Director of Parks.Recreation and Natural Resources. Lambert explained the City Council did approve proceeding with some design and gave Barr Engineering direction. It turned out they did not like the design with all the rip rap nor did they like the size and scale of the gazebo. He noted the I Icritage Preservation Commission did not like the plan either. He has had some discussion 5 A ,r �I Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,July 21,1997 with Bar Engineering and will be meeting with them again tomorrow and ask them to go back to the original plans. V11. NEW BUSINESS j l A. Evaluation of Playground Proposals for Riley Lake Park Stafi'referred the Commission to a memo dated July 15, 1997,from Bob Lambert, Director of Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources, and five playground manufacturers'proposals. i Lambert explained this is a new process and would like an opinion from the Commission when it's finished. They have invited representatives from the various playground manufacturers to attend and make a five minute presentation. Mr. Lchman representing Minnesota Wisconsin Playground, Inc, reviewed his x playground proposal which included a playstructure for 2-5 year olds and a playstructurc for 5-12 year olds. LDavid Owens,representing Earl F.Anderson,Inc,reviewed his playground proposal s which included a custom ship structure, a swing unit, a seahorse spring rider, a dolphin spring ride,and an 18 inch long track ride t Bill Johnson,representing Flanagan Sales, Inc,reviewed his playground proposal which included a 5-12 year old playstructure,a 2-5 year old playstructure with a builder ship,three spring riders and two diggers. Brenda Wenner,representing Miracle Recreation of Minnesota, Inc,reviewed her playground proposal which included a center stage/kid's choice play system for ages 2-12,a frog and squirrel spring rider,and a twin rider :'his proposal included 12" washed pea gravel. She noted she would check to see if wood chips would be comparable in price. Lambert noted Johnnie Johnson representing St.Croix Recreation Company was not able to attend and make a presentation. Lambert put the playground proposal on the board which included a pirate ship,the same as they did in Miller Park. The Commission had a brief discussion about what they liked and didn't like about each playground proposal. 6 i Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,July 21,1997 Hasse commented she liked the Little Tykes design of a boat because there seemed to be a lot of activities for the children. 1-lilgeman commented she didn't like the boat designs because she wants to get away from the ship theme. She liked the trcchouse idea by Miracle Recreation because it picked up on the natural surroundings, and the design by Minnesota Wisconsin because it went with the straight farm theme. j i Brown was concerned about what age group really plays on the playstructures. 1 Lambert said age 2-7 is the primary age group and noted 9-12 year olds are rarely on them. They have to be a little scary and challenging for the kids to enjoy them. If it's scary for a 10, 11.or 12 year old,then it's got to be dangerous and that's not put in playgrounds anymore. The Commission added up their votes on the playground equipment. The result was Miracle Recreation of Minnesota first,next was Minnesota Wisconsin Playground, ri Flanagan Sales, Earl F. Anderson,and St.Croix Recreation last. The Commission v agreed to award the bid to Miracle Recreation of Minnesota with the stipulation that ' wood chips would be used instead of pea gravel for the same price. It the price �... changes,the bid will be awarded to Wisconsin Playground. < MOTION: Koenig moved,seconded by Jacobson,to grant Miracle Recreation of Minnesota the bid for Riley Lake Park play equipment with the condition that they J use wood chips instead of pea gravel at the same price,and if there is an additional price for wood chips, the Commission recommended Minnesota Wisconsin i Playground receive the bid. Motion carried 5-0. Vlll. REPORTS OF COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF A. Reports of Manager of Parks and Natural Resources 1. Update on Deer Management Program tm Staff referred the Commission to it memo dated July 17, 1997,from Stuart A. Fox,Manager of Parks and Natural Resources. Fox highlighted what has transpired over the last three years and some of the observations staff has made in regard to it. Koenig asked if staff had any input about the deer vehicle collisions. Fox 7 i 's Approved Minutes j Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,July 21,1997 said the deer vehicle collisions was not included in this information. It's remained relatively constant in certain areas of the City. The northeasterly quadrant which is called the 494 belt, as well as Flying Cloud Drive and Pioneer Trail seem to be the three roads that there arc more deer vehicle collisions. They don't always have full information as to what happened to the animal that was struck. Brown asked if the aerial count is still about the same count per year or is it decreasing some. Fox replied it really varies and explained why it's hard to count them. He noted they still have some serious over population problems in certain areas. i Corneille commended Fox on his knowledge and patience for understanding and explaining the program. Koenig was concerned about the use of trapping and shooting and was adamantly against that. She was comfortable with the program as it is to continue and if changes are to be made she requested that the Commission hear those changes. 2. Report on Bit!Woods Residents Meeting a Staff referred the Commission to a memo dated July 15, 1997,from Stuart 1 A.Fox.Manager of parks and Natural Resources. Hilgeman highlighted for the Commission what transpired at the meeting. She commended Fox for keeping control when things got out of hand. She noted the City made a mistake when they only gave them 25 feet in the back if they wanted to build a porch or deck. She has 50 feet in her backyard and it's not nearly enough room. She wanted everybody to be aware the problems with casements in general is because of second and third generation homeowners. She explained to them what the purpose of an easement is and the limitations the homeowners have. After explaining the casement,there s was a level of understanding of what an casement means. Fox noted they have not determined yet whether the City or Centex will pay for the signs to be put up. Centex asked staff to find out what the costs arc for the silms because they have been getting some flack from people that feel they have been mislead by them. 8 ,V Approved Minutes Parks,Recreation and Natural Resources Monday,July 21,1997 Lambert discussed the use of"carsonite"posts to be used for delineation or marking of this scenic conservation easement so that it is easily identifiable in the people's backyards. IX. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Jacobson moved, seconded by Corneille, to adjourn the meeting. Motion curried 5-0. The meeting adjourned at 10:07 p.m. 9 ti 9