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Parks and Recreation - 04/02/2001 APPROVED MINUTES PARKS & RECREATION CITIZEN ADVISORY COMMISSION MONDAY, APRIL 2, 2001 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER 8080 Mitchell Road Council Chambers COMMISSION MEMBERS: Kim Teaver, Chair; Rob Barrett, Ann Birt, David Larson, John Murray II, Trisha Swanson, Philip Wright COMMISSION STAFF: Tria Mann, Staff Liaison; Peggy Rasmussen, Recording Secretary SUPPORT STAFF: Bob Lambert, Director, Parks and Recreation Services; Laurie Obiazor, Manager of Recreation Services; Stuart Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources; Lyndell Frey, Community Center Manager STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Jonathan Erickson, Richard Greywitt, Jr. Benjamin Mathews I. ROLL CALL Chair Teaver called the meeting to order at 7:03 p.m. Commissioners Barrett and Murray were absent. Student Representatives Jonathan Erickson and Ben Mathews were absent. Bob Lambert and Tria Mann were present. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA MOTION: Birt moved, seconded by Larson, to approve the agenda as published. Motion carried 5-0. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES – December 4, 2000 MOTION: Birt moved, seconded by Larson, to approve the minutes of the Parks and Recreation Citizen Advisory Commission meeting held December 4, 2000, as published. Motion carried 3-0-2, with Swanson and Wright abstaining. A. Clarification of the February 5, 2001 Meeting Mann explained that a quorum was not present for the February 5, 2001 meeting; therefore, these minutes do not reflect the minutes of a regular meeting. The action taken must be considered at a meeting of the Commission at which a quorum is present. IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATIONS PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES April 2, 2001 Page 2 A. Request from Karen Pedersen Lambert explained the request from Karen Pedersen, 16737 Weston Bay Road, for the City to plow part of the Hennepin County Light Rail Transit (LRT) trail for walkers and joggers to use in the winter months. Lambert said he has also received phone calls from residents in the northern part of the City requesting that the LRT be plowed. Lambert said the trail is leased by Hennepin Parks and they maintain it during the spring, summer and fall. They leave it to the communities to maintain it in the winter months. Minnetonka plows the northern part of the trail. Chanhassen does not plow but grooms the trail for snowmobilers to use. Eden Prairie staff recommends plowing an eight-foot wide walking path from the intersection with County Road 4 south to Riley Lake Park. Staff recommends trying this for one year to monitor the reaction of the public and determine how much it is used. Plowing that trail will be a relatively low priority on the plowing schedule compared to trails that provide access to schools, bus stops, or trails within City parks. Lambert requested that the Commission support the recommendation of the staff. Birt asked if the northern part of the trail that goes toward Hopkins is within Bryant Park. Lambert replied no, the northern part is just east of Birch Island Park and west of I-494. Wright asked if there is an incremental cost to plowing the trail. Lambert said there is always a cost for plowing, but the City would not hire any additional staff to plow the LRT trail. It would be a low-priority trail, so they would do it when they can. The Parks staff assists Public Works staff with plowing roads, and they help Parks staff with plowing trails. Swanson asked where the plowing would begin and end. Lambert replied it would begin at Riley Lake and go north to where the trail is plowed in Minnetonka. MOTION: Birt moved, seconded by Swanson, to plow the LRT trail as a low- priority, as recommended by City staff. Motion carried 5-0. V. OLD BUSINESS A. Development of Crestwood Neighborhood Park Lambert said it is important to emphasize that this park is a neighborhood park, serving a relatively large area. The City’s neighborhood parks typically serve 800 to 1200 homes. This property was acquired in the late 1980s for a future park. The original plan has been changed to reflect the change in Eden Prairie residents’ interests over the years. The interest in baseball and softball has decreased in the PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES April 2, 2001 Page 3 past five years, whereas the interest in soccer and youth football has increased dramatically. That is why this current plan has two soccer/football fields and none for baseball or softball. Lacrosse is also growing in popularity, and it is also played on soccer fields. Lambert said the only change to the plan shown two months ago, when this subject was originally on the agenda, is the addition of sand volleyball because of a petition from the Crestview neighborhood. The plan showed landscaping and trees around the perimeter of the park. There is an open skating rink and a hockey rink, a shelter, a play structure, and basketball and tennis courts. There is parking for 60 cars, which should make it unnecessary for drivers to park in the neighborhood. The NURP pond at the northwest corner of the park is required to provide a place for all runoff from the park property. An unresolved issue is where the trail will go from the northwest edge of the park, as no easement has been obtained outside the park boundary. Teaver asked if there is any issue related to the trail easement. Lambert said the only issue is the City doesn’t have an easement. The City could try to get a temporary easement and make a connection to the west. When the property is developed the City can acquire a permanent easement from a future developer. The trail would go to Dell Drive, Crestwood Terrace, and then across Riley Creek. The City tries to provide as direct trail access as possible. Wright asked if the NURP pond could be used for skating in addition to the rinks. Lambert said no, they can’t be used because it is hard to tell where weak spots in the ice might be, and the City can’t put heavy equipment on it, as they do on the rinks. Swanson asked how large the park is. Lambert said it is similar in size to Pheasant Woods Park on Mitchell Road, which is about 14 acres, or 3 acres larger than Crestwood Park. Birt said at the last meeting there were a lot of questions about lighting, particularly on the hockey rink and how it would affect the homeowners nearby. Lambert said there will be three lights on each side of the rink. They are a down- cast light, with shields around them. There will be a glow reflected from the ice. A minimum number of footcandles are required in order for the players safely to see a hockey puck. The lights are shut off at 9 p.m. Sunday through Thursday, and at 10 p.m. on Friday and Saturday nights. Lambert said the City has several locations where lights are as close to the neighbors as these lights will be, and the City has not had any complaints about them. Wright asked how tall the light poles are. Lambert said they are 20-feet tall. Birt asked if there would be lights around the soccer fields. Lambert said there would not. The only time they light athletic fields is in community parks. Swanson asked if it would be possible for users to go into the shelters and turn the lights on for the skating rinks and turn them off when they leave. Lambert said PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES April 2, 2001 Page 4 only City personnel are allowed to open the shelters. The hockey association has asked for a key and said they would turn the lights on and off, but the City has a liability issue to consider so can’t allow that. Birt asked if the shelter is used in the summertime or just in the winter months. Lambert said that’s the location for playground programs, for about eight weeks during the summer months. Also, there will be an open end on the shelter, which people can use for picnics. Teaver asked if lights come on and go off at a certain time? Lambert said only during the skating season. That usually lasts from Christmas vacation until mid- February. This year the rinks were open until March 6 because of the colder weather. In the past two years the rinks were only open a total of six weeks. Larson asked if it would be possible to have a floor surface in the shelter that people could walk on with their skates. Lambert said the shelter would have rubber flooring so it can be walked on with skates, and they will put down skating mats from the shelter up to the ice. Teaver asked if anyone in the audience wanted to speak. Kathy Weber, 9650 Stable Path, said her family owns six acres that share a common northern boundary with the park. They have a hobby farm with horses and a corral. At the February 5, 2001 meeting of the Commission, she and her neighbors made suggestions to the Commissioners and they made recommendations to the Parks department. Nothing was said about there not being a quorum. When she called the department recently and asked for the minutes from the February meeting, she was told that since there wasn’t a quorum, none of the minutes from that meeting would be taken into consideration. She talked to Councilmember Nancy Tyra-Lukens about this, and she said the minutes will be made available to the Parks Commission but would not be available to send out to the public. At the February meeting both the neighbors and the Commissioners present thought the Parks staff was trying to squeeze too much into the rather small park area. The Commissioners recommended City develop a design to down-size the park. When Stuart Fox was asked to explain the difference between a neighborhood park and a community park, he said the community park usually has skating rinks. This plan calls for lighted skating rinks. Her house would be facing the lighted skating rinks. Mrs. Weber asked for both a sight barrier and a physical barrier to keep people from coming onto her property. The proposed four-foot berm would not be high enough to accomplish this. Neighbors at the meeting had asked that the hockey rink be moved from the center of the park away from her property, but when she saw the revised plan that came with the meeting notice, the plan left everything the same. PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES April 2, 2001 Page 5 The Community Survey showed people want more open space, not another park out of character with her neighborhood. Sheila Johnson, 9695 Crestwood Terrace, said she was concerned about children being attracted to the pond and it not being supervised. Her children have wished to have the park for many years, but a neighborhood park should have a baseball diamond. People have always skated on the pond nearby and they probably will continue to do that. She asked how high the trees would be. Lambert replied the deciduous trees would be 10- to 12-feet high; the evergreens 6- to 8-feet high. Mrs. Johnson asked if there would be a fence around the pond, and Lambert said no, there would not. Gail LaBelle, Crestwood Terrace, asked if the 60-space parking lot adequate for the amount of facilities in the park. LaBelle was concerned that a lot of people would be parking on Crestwood Terrace and wanted to be sure the number of parking spaces would be sufficient. There would be approximately 3,800 children using the park from the surrounding neighborhood, not counting others coming to use the soccer fields. Lambert believed the number of parking spaces would be adequate. Stan Hammer, 9624 Jonathan Lane, said he lives just off Dell Road. There will be other homes on Dell Road that will be facing the hockey rink as well. He believed the plan was very well thought out and well planned. He is looking forward to the park being developed. He wanted the Commission to consider and address the problem of the horses. If one child is injured, that is unacceptable. Lambert responded to some of these questions and concerns. He apologized to Mrs. Weber if someone in his office said the minutes of the February meeting were thrown away because there wasn’t a quorum. The City does not hand out minutes that are not approved; however, anyone can come in and read them at any time. The City Attorney said to keep the minutes of the February meeting as a record, but they are not official minutes of the Parks and Recreation Citizen Advisory Commission. Three members does not constitute a quorum. Regarding whether this is a community park or neighborhood park, it is a neighborhood park. The skating facilities would be serving the southwest quadrant of Eden Prairie. There are only eight sites in Eden Prairie where skating rinks are maintained by the City. There are seven other sites, and four of those sites are in neighborhood parks that have lighted skating facilities. The City only has four community parks. Those are usually developed around a resource such as a lake and generally do have skating rinks. One exception is Birch Island Park. Regarding a fence and barrier to keep children away from Mrs. Weber’s horses, Lambert said the City has many miles of park boundaries and made the decision long ago not to build fences around its parks. His recommendation to the City would always be to not support the City building fences around the parks, because it would cost too much. That is what previous City Councils and Parks Commissions have decided. It is Mrs. Weber’s responsibility to keep her horses PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES April 2, 2001 Page 6 on her property and warn people off. It is different than if you own a dog that may bite someone. Regarding moving the hockey rinks to Flying Cloud Fields, the City has a 90-day lease for the Flying Cloud ballfields. Last year MAC told the City it can continue to use the fields. Part of the lease agreement is that the City cannot build any additional hard objects, such as lights or buildings, so the skating rinks cannot be moved there. Regarding the NURP pond, or drainage pond, Lambert said Eden Prairie has never fenced ponds. A number of these ponds are in parks, and the City has had no problems with them, including the one at Nesbitt Park that has been there for 22 years with no problems. The City is required by law to put ponds in the parks to accommodate the drainage of water. Berms and trees will be placed around this pond. Regarding the question whether a 60-car parking lot will adequately serve the neighborhood, Lambert said the City has had a lot of experience with athletic field use, and it is his opinion that 60 cars will be more than adequate to serve this park. Sidewalks and trails will be provided for children to reach the park. The heavy activity group use is during the summer months when the soccer association will be using the fields. There will be a backstop in place for pickup baseball games. Teaver asked if there is any type of dense foliage that would give a landscape buffer to Mrs. Weber’s property and might be more difficult for the children to get through. Lambert replied the City doesn’t have many options to move things around because of the configuration of the park. The amount of foliage shown on the plan is as dense as they can get it because there isn’t much room. He recommended Mrs. Weber put up a fence to keep the children away from the horses. Wright asked if the City is constrained to keeping the height of the berm to four feet. Lambert said they are constrained only by the fact it has to be mowed by City crews, and with the limited distance between the rink and the property line the berm would be too steep if it were higher. Birt addressed the concern about the pond and the play area for children being nearby. There will be trees and bushes planted around the pond so she didn’t think that will be a major problem. The people who go with the children are responsible for them. The children should be taught safety rules around water. Teaver thanked the park neighbors for sharing their concerns and issues. She assured them that the Commissioners did receive the minutes of the February meeting. MOTION: Birt moved, seconded by Larson, to approve the park design as presented that evening. Motion carried 5-0. PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES April 2, 2001 Page 7 Lambert went through the review process. On April 24, 2001, the Community Program Board will be reviewing this plan. On May 14, the Community Planning Board will hold a public hearing. The neighborhood will receive a notice of that meeting. On June 5, the City Council will be asked for approval. Because of the two-month delay in the process, the City’s original time schedule has been changed. Dormant seeding will likely be done in October instead of August. Construction of the park will be completed in 2002 rather than 2001. VI. NEW BUSINESS A. Smetana Lake Surface Management Ordinance Lambert said the request for restricting the use of Smetana Lake to electric trolling motors only, came from residents of Realife Valley View Cooperative, who form the majority of owners on the north side of the lake, and the owner of one of the office buildings on Smetana Lake. The City is developing a park on the north shore of the lake and a trail system around the lake. Public access to the lake is being provided adjacent to the park. As part of the review process for the park, the City had public meetings for residents and property owners. They said they didn’t want this 50-acre lake to be used for personal watercraft that makes a lot of noise. It is a shallow lake and not appropriate for use by speed boats. The City recommends allowing only boats with electric trolling motors. A surface-management ordinance restricts use of the lake. Most lakes in the City have surface-management ordinances. An ordinance has to be initiated by the City, then goes through the Program Board, the Planning Board, and the City Council. Following approval by the Council, it goes to the Department of Natural Resources. They require a 90-day comment period. If the DNR agrees, the City has a final reading of the ordinance before it goes into effect. The City hopes to complete the process before the park opens this fall. Birt asked if there is a place to launch the boats. Lambert said there will be, but it won’t be open until this fall. Birt asked if the number of boats on the lake could be limited. Lambert said no, the law doesn’t allow that. However, there will just be five parking spaces for boats with trailers. The fishing is only good for a few weeks in the year. Wright asked if there will be canoe storage facilities there. He also asked if there is a connection between Lake Smetana and Anderson Lakes. Lambert said no, there is no physical connection between them. Regarding canoe storage, the City might provide it if requests for that are received. Some of the residents of Realife Cooperative might be interested. PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES April 2, 2001 Page 8 Swanson asked if there are other people living around the lake. Lambert said there is only one person. Many people work in the Golden Triangle area near the lake. MOTION: Birt moved, seconded by Wright, to approve the Smetana Lake Surface Management Ordinance as proposed. Motion carried 5-0. B. Evaluating the Results of the Community Forum and Survey Lambert reviewed the summary of the Community Forum and Survey. People are really satisfied with the parks system and 85 percent expect some change and believe the system will continue to improve. The residents said the most important issue facing the City was affordable taxes. Based on this, any additions to the City’s facilities, such as a water park, will need to go through a very defined process before approving any of them. Funds for the park system are provided through the CIP budget and cash park fees paid by the people in developments. The highest majority of residents believe the City should have an outdoor water park, which will be quite expensive. The last time a survey was done six years ago, the City didn’t have a problem with geese at the lakes, and now people are worried if it is safe to swim at Round Lake. The survey respondents want Round Lake cleaned up. If it was cleaned up, people would swim there or at the Community Center. Lambert asked the Commissioners read the results of the whole survey and use that information when considering requests or recommendations for park or recreation program improvements. He said in the next couple of months, the Council would have a CIP Workshop. The Council will look at a number of needs and ask what is the highest priority and where the money will come from. An outdoor pool cannot be funded from cash park fees. Input and support from residents will be needed before the City would approve it, perhaps through a referendum. He and his staff will wait until the Council gives direction in the next couple of months before recommending to spend money on anything new. Birt asked if any public funding would ever be used for an outdoor water park, and would a large corporation ever be asked to be a co-sponsor? Lambert replied the City is always open to having a corporate co-sponsor. However, they have gone to the big companies on occasion for smaller items and they have been very reluctant. They are concerned about their branches in other locations. They cannot do something for one City and not another. Wright said he did a study of the number of companies in Eden Prairie, and there are more here than in other places. Lambert explained the reason why so many companies came to Eden Prairie. In 1968 the City passed a referendum for $550,000 and got matching grants - federal, state and local - with which to buy $5 million worth of parkland. When various companies looked at building in Eden Prairie, they decided it would be a great place to live and work because of the PARKS & RECREATION COMMISSION MINUTES April 2, 2001 Page 9 amount of open space. It would be worthwhile finding out if those companies would donate toward a project for City residents. Teaver said some people were wondering why the City would want to build a golf course but, if you put it into perspective, the City would get its money back. Lambert agreed that once it is paid for it is a huge revenue source. The City tried to pass a referendum in 1991 for $8.5 million, some of that was to purchase land for a golf course. It lost by 124 votes. Now, people feel differently. The City is talking to the Metropolitan Airports Commission about using the buffer area around the Flying Cloud Airport for an 18-hole golf course. People who are most affected by the expansion of the airport would have an increase in property value with a golf course nearby. Revenue bonds would pay for construction of the golf course and then it would pay for itself. The property is vacant and is already off the tax roles. VII. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Larson moved, seconded by Wright, to adjourn the meeting. Chair Teaver adjourned the meeting at 8:40 p.m.