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Parks and Recreation - 05/23/2000 APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE COMMUNITY PROGRAM BOARD TUESDAY, MAY 23, 2000 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER City Council Chambers 8080 Mitchell Road BOARD MEMBERS: Chair Munna Yasiri, Vice-Chair Mary Cofer, Harry Davis,Jr., Dick Brown, Kim Teaver, Harry Moran, and Therese Benkowski BOARD STAFF: Chris Enger, City Manager; Natalie Swaggert, Management Liaison; Laurie Obiazor, Staff Liaison; and Carol Pelzel, Recording Secretary SUPPORT STAFF: Lyndell Frey, Community Center Manager;Joel Klute, Ice Arena and Concessions Coordinator; Bob Lambert, Director of Parks and Recreation Services; and Don Uram, Director of Community Development and Financial Services VISITORS: Pat Richard, Co-chair of Third Rink Task Force CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL Chair Yasiri called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. Board members present included Munna Yasiri, Therese Benkowski, Mary Cofer, Harry Davis,Jr., Dick Brown, Kim Teaver and Harry Moran. APPROVAL OF AGENDA MOTION: Brown moved, seconded by Teaver, to approve the agenda as published. Motion carried, 7-0. APPROVAL OF APRIL 25, 2000 MINUTES Commissioner Cofer asked that the fifth line of the fourth paragraph on Page 1 be amended to read"Mary Cofer reported that he has been an Eden Prairie resident for six years and previously served on the Senior Issues Task Force and the Housing, Transportation and Social Services Board and is very interested in the City". MOTION: Davis moved, seconded by Cofer, to approve the April 25, 2000, minutes as corrected. The motion carried, 5-0-1 with Benkowski abstaining because of absence from that meeting. OLD BUSINESS None NEW BUSINESS Third Rink Task Force Report Presentation(Co-chair Pat Richard) Bob Lambert, Director of Parks and Recreation,presented the background of the Third Rink Task Force Report and reviewed the history of the request for a third rink. He explained that the Eden Prairie Hockey 1 Association submitted a petition requesting the City Council to consider a feasibility study on a third rink. The City Council authorized City staff to develop a citizen committee consisting of skating enthusiasts and citizens who have no interest in skating. Mr. Lambert introduced Pat Richard who served as co-chair on the Third Rink Task Force and represents the non-skating side of the Task Force. He explained that John Schmelzle, also co-chair of the Third Rink Task Force, was to make the presentation at this meeting, however, in his absence Mr. Richard's will make the presentation. Mr. Richard reviewed with the Board the process the Task Force went through in developing their report. Their charge was to decide if there is a need for a third rink in Eden Prairie and if it was decided that a third rink was necessary what would the alternatives be to fund the third sheet. Mr. Richard explained that the Task Force did decide that there is a need for an additional 1,500 hours of ice time during the months of October to March. However, 1,500 hours does not justify the financial feasibility for another sheet. Mr. Richard further explained that the main users of the ice rink(Hockey Association, Figure Skating Club and High School) would like authorization to spend$20,000 of their own money to do a more detailed study to see what a third sheet of ice would cost and how it could be done to still fit in with the existing facility. Once they determine if it is feasible, they would then determine how much money could be raised by selling ice time. The Task Force also discussed a grant from the Mighty Ducks that requires a matching grant that may be available from the Hockey Association. Mr. Richard pointed out that the biggest issue is going to be whether or not they can get a large private donor for this facility. This evening the Task Force is not asking for permission to move forward with the third ice sheet but permission to move forward to the next step to get a more accurate number as to the amount of money that will be needed to be raised for this additional sheet of ice. They are also requesting permission from the City to allow them to pursue private sponsorship. Chair Yasiri expressed her appreciation to the Third Rink Task Force, City staff and everyone involved in this process for the amount of time and effort that they have put into this report. Mr. Lambert indicated that City staff and the Task Force agree that there are 1,200 to 1,500 hours of ice time that would be bought by the Eden Prairie Association between October and March. This ice time would generate enough money to fund operation costs and$1 million of construction. However, construction costs are estimated at$4 million. This would result in a$3 million shortfall. There is some question as to the total cost and the Hockey Association is willing to put up $20,000 of their own money to hire an engineer and architect to get more detailed information to enable them to pin that number down closer to actual cost. Mr. Lambert stated that they are asking this Board to recommend approval of the process to allow the Hockey Association to spend their money to hire people to work with the School District to see if this facility could be placed partially on the School District's property. This study would enable them to get more detailed plans and specifications as well as soil borings to determine if this facility will work on the proposed site. They are also asking for approval to talk to private businesses to see if they would be willing to donate $1 million to $2 million in return for advertising on this site. The City Council would have to approve the naming of a building or rink after a corporation for advertising purposes. Discussion Commissioner Teaver asked why Eden Prairie has not used corporate sponsorships in the past. Mr. Lambert responded that they have done some sponsorship on a limited basis. They have used advertising on scoreboards on the ballfields. As Parks and Recreation Director, Mr. Lambert said he has resisted such advertising because of the minor amount of money that would be raised in comparison to operational costs. Mr. Lambert said he feels the advertising junks up the parks. Commissioner Davis said he has some concern about private sponsorship at the high school level. The participants are not paid athletes. Also, Commissioner Davis questioned why the City has to give approval for the Hockey Association to spend their own money. Mr. Lambert responded that the 2 Association does not want to go forward unless they have the Parks Commission, Program Board and City Council's agreement that if they get the money they will support this project. Commissioner Davis pointed out that if the Hockey Association feels that strongly committed they should be willing to spend the money to show the feasibility of this project. Commissioner Davis said there is no guarantee that this project will be approved whether they spend the money or not. City Manager Enger explained that the City Council charged the Task Force with looking at this proposal at no cost to the City. The Task Force report requests that the City carry debt on$1 million. The $20,000 feasibility study is more of a side issue. City Manager Enger pointed out that this request is well within this Board's purview to look at other elements of the Task Force recommendation. Commissioner Cofer said he feels that what they are talking about this evening are really the mechanical issues of this project; the building site, soil conditions, parking issues, etc. The report indicates that this third ice sheet will generate enough revenue to pay operating costs of the facility. However, they will still be approximately $3 million short of being able to do this project. Commissioner Cofer pointed out that the Charter Statement prepared by the City Council asks that the Task Force make an evaluation of the long-term need, which this Task Force has established. The Charter also states that if the rink is needed, the feasibility of constructing and operating the third ice sheet should be at no cost to the City. He asked if the Task Force is going to be able to come back to the City Council with options on how the money is going to be raised to fund this project at no cost to the City after spending the$20,000 on the requested study. Mr. Lambert responded that the additional study would allow them to come up with a site plan that both the School District and City Council would approve. They will also be able to contact various organizations in an effort to raise the necessary funds. The School District has responded positively about the process and the concept and has agreed with the need for a third ice rink. Chair Yasiri indicated that the report does show an ice time shortage for the short-term,however, she is not sure she sees a long-term need. With regard to the aging population, Commissioner Yasiri asked if there would be a need five years from now. Mr. Lambert responded that the Hockey Association did quit advertising three years ago for younger students because they did not have the facilities to handle the additional skaters. The Hockey Association believes that with any kind of promotion with girls hockey there would be more girls playing. There is also a high demand for ice team with the ice-skating clubs. Commissioner Benkowski expressed concern as other communities build ice rinks and ice rental becomes more competitive and revenues decline how will operating costs be covered. Mr. Lambert responded that they anticipate rental rates per hour will continue to increase during prime time. Rates are cut during summer months and not during prime time. The additional 1,200 to 1,500 hours they are predicting is during prime time. Commissioner Davis said the Task Force report indicates that prime ice time is October to March and both the Hockey Association and skating clubs are competing for ice the same time. Since figure skating is not competitive, Commissioner Davis asked why they demand the same time as the Hockey Association. Mr. Lambert explained that ice-skating is a year-round sport,however, their big competition is in the winter. Commissioner Moran expressed concern for the amount of traffic that will be generated with this addition. He pointed out that there is already a problem with traffic congestion in this area. One of the proposals eliminates parking spaces. Mr. Lambert stated that one of the proposals adds 60 to 70 spaces while another takes some spaces away. Traffic flow will be an issue addressed under the site-plan review. Chair Yasiri suggested that the Hockey Association add to the value of the program by having practices throughout the year rather than from October to March. This would result in year round use of the facilities. Mr. Lambert explained that reports have shown that youths should be well-rounded athletes and they should play other sports. Also, during the summer months participants want to be outside and not inside the ice arenas. 3 Lyndell Frey, Community Center Manager, addressed the issue of using the ice rink for other activities during the summer. He explained that the rent revenue would result in approximately $5,000 to$10,000 and that would probably not cover the operating costs for an indoor event. Commissioner Brown said he recommended to the Hockey Association that off-season hours be used for young people between the ages of 7 and 13 to learn how to skate. The City could rent the ice not being used at a lesser rate and this would allow the Hockey Association to expand their ice hours during prime time. Commissioner Brown pointed out that one of the greatest growth areas is the figure skaters and they could train their young people to skate on the off-hours. Commissioner Brown said he feels the Hockey Association is not doing everything they can to help solve the problem of shortage of ice time. The City and School District are being asked to donate the land for this facility for a cost to the City of approximately$750,000 to approximately 170 skaters. Commissioner Brown explained that he is not saying this project cannot be done,however,he wants to see the money and he does not believe it is a sound investment. The Hockey Association did not convince him that they have done everything in their power to help eliminate the problem without the third rink. Commissioner Davis said he has some concern with the long-term use of this facility. He does not feel that Eden Prairie is unique and will have young people to service this debt. Chair Yasiri explained that the Third Rink Task Force's task was to look at how a third rink could be developed without taxpayer or City funding. Chair Yasiri said she feels the Task Force did not totally address the issue of funding this project. Mr. Lambert responded that the Task Force did discuss this and would like an opportunity to try to raise the funds. The hockey and skating people want an opportunity to spend their own money to do a study to determine the feasibility of funding. Also, it would be nice if they could spread the hockey ages and have them participate in the summer. However, they will not be able to change the social trend. Mr. Lambert pointed out that a need has been established for a good part of the year. Don Uram, Director of Community Development and Financial Services, said it was his understanding that this project was to be at no cost to the City. There would be costs if the City were to issue the debt. The City would be responsible for any shortfall in dollars generated by the third rink. Mr. Lambert said they have determined that there is a need for 1,200 to 1,500 hours of ice time. The third rink could be shut down those months when there is not a demand for ice time. There would not be a big risk to the City on the first$1 million of operational costs. This project would not move forward until they have the money. Mr. Lambert asked that the Hockey Association be given the opportunity to conduct a further study and to determine whether or not the necessary funds can be raised. Chair Yasiri said she is somewhat confused because she feels that the request before them this evening was contained in the charter statement of the Task Force. It appears to her that they are asking permission to do what they were originally charged with. Mr. Lambert explained that the report does answer the original question as to whether or not there is a need for a third ice rink. There is a need for an additional 1,200 to 1,500 hours of ice time. Also, the question of feasibility was addressed. With a$3 million gift the project is feasible. To answer the question of whether or not there is a project they must have $3 million of funding. In order to have someone commit to this funding, they need more facts on the project. In order to obtain those facts, they need to go to Phase II of the process which is what they are requesting this evening. Chair Yasiri said she feels this Board cannot give a commitment to go ahead with this project until they see that it will be a fiscally sound and sustainable use to meet the long-term needs of the City. She questioned whether or not all of the charges of the Task Force have been met. Commissioner Brown said the report indicates that they can rent an additional 1,500 hours of ice each year. He stated that he feels this is not a need for a new hockey rink. There is a need for 1,500 hours of ice time. Commissioner Brown said he also questions the location of the proposed rink. He indicated that the 4 Task Force did not justify that a rink is needed for 12 months but did justify that there is a three-month need. Commissioner Cofer explained that he has read the purpose statement of the Task Force to evaluate the long-term need. There is a present need that has been established,however,he questioned the long-term need. Commissioner Cofer said he also has a real concern with the feasibility of constructing and operating the third ice rink at no cost to the City. Commissioner Benkowski said she is concerned about the cost and it has not been proven that there will be no cost to the City. Commissioner Benkowski explained that a traffic problem already exists at this location and this project will only complicate that problem. Commissioner Moran pointed out that while the Task Force has shown there is a need for additional ice time, a long-term need has not been shown. Commissioner Moran said that asking this Board to approve the expenditure of$20,000 by the Hockey Association does not appear to be within this Board's purview. He feels they have no jurisdiction on how the Hockey Association spends their money. Recommendation for City Council MOTION: Brown moved, Cofer seconded, based on the information that this Board received from the Task Force it was not demonstrated that there was a year round need for a third rink and the Board is not convinced of the feasibility of it being built without City funding. Moran offered a friendly amendment to the proposed motion as follows: The Board recognizes, based on information presented from the Third Rink Task Force report, that there is a present need for additional facilities but the long-term need and feasibility of constructing and operating at no cost to the City was not established. Brown moved to accept the friendly amendment with Cofer seconding the amendment. Vote was called on the amended motion with all members voting aye. The motion carried, 7-0. REPORTS OF STAFF A. None FUTURE MEETINGS/EVENTS Ms. Swaggert asked that the Board consider rescheduling their next meeting from June 27, 2000, because she would be out of the office that week. The Board agreed to meet on July 11, 2000, at 7:00 p.m. Commissioner Moran indicated he would not be in attendance at that meeting. The Board will decide at that time whether or not it will be necessary to meet again on July 25, their regularly scheduled meeting. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Cofer moved, Benkowski seconded, to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried,7-0. The meeting was adjourned at 9:35 p.m. 5