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Parks and Recreation - 12/03/2007 APPROVED MINUTES PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, DECEMBER 3, 2007 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER Heritage Room 1 & 2 8080 Mitchell Road COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Geri Napuck, Vice Chair; Rob Barrett, Tom Bierman, Lee Elliott-Stoering, Jeffrey Gerst (arrived at 7:55 p.m.), Randy Jacobus (left at 10:05 p.m.), Ian Mackay and Joan Oko COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: John Brill, Chair STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Margaret Krause and Steven Shouts COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: Scott Neal, City Manager Jay Lotthammer, Parks and Recreation Director; Laurie Obiazor, Recreation Services Manager; Stu Fox, Parks and Natural Resources Manager; Wendy Sevenich, Community Center Manager and Carol Pelzel, Recording Secretary I. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL The meeting was called to order by Vice Chair Napuck at 7:00 p.m. On behalf of the Commission, Napuck expressed her appreciation to John Ostendorf for his time on the Commission. Ostendorf completed his half-year term. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Motion: Barrett moved, seconded by Oko, to approve the agenda as presented. The motion carried, 7-0. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES —NOVEMBER 5, 2007 Motion: Bierman moved, Oko seconded, to approve the November 5, 2007, Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission meeting minutes as published. The motion carried, 7-0. IV. REPORT OF CITY COUNCIL ACTION—NOVEMBER 13, 2007 Fox reported that the City Council did approve the Lion's Club request to move their memorial to Round Lake Park as recommended by this Commission. PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES December 3, 2007 Page 2 V. REPORT OF PLANNING COMMISSION Fox reported that the Planning Commission approved a proposed development of a 1.6 acre commercial site by Enterprise Rent a Car. This proposal would generate cash park fees. The Commission also approved a project for Kinderberry Childcare to be located at Hennepin Town Road and Pioneer Trail. This project will also generate some cash park fees. Fox also reported that the Commission discussed the Town Center ordinance and looked at some of the guidelines of what will happen with the redesign of the Town Center area in terms of streetscape and lighting. The Commission also looked at some guide plan updates. Mackay asked when design concepts for the downtown area would be available for review. Fox responded that public information meetings will be conducted by the Planning Commission and Planning staff. They are working with consultants and plan to have a design available fairly soon. Bierman asked if there will be park fees generated from the proposed Castle Ridge development. Fox explained that there will be park fees for the increased units in that area and for the commercial and office business development. Fees were collected when the first units were originally built. VI. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATION A. Proposed 2008 Membership Fees for Eden Prairie Community Center 1. Verbal response to Commission member Elliott-S toering's e-mail. 2. Memo from Human Rights and Diversity Commission 3. Copy of Letter to Eden Prairie News from Bill Clark 4. Request to speak at meeting from Mike Boland 5. Community Center Fee Comparison (for information only) Sevenich explained that she has responded to many questions raised regarding Community Center fees. She said that the new Community Center will offer City programs to all residents that were previously offered at non-City facilities. It will provide programs for youth and other residents with member or non-member options. The Community Center will provide expanded programming to all residents including facilities for birthday parties and events. Local businesses and residents will have access to conference rooms for events and meetings. Play structure with fees will be provided for residents and non-residents while others are participating in other activities at the Community Center. Sevenich further explained that there will be open swim, gym and skate activity for all residents on a pay for use basis. Barrett asked if swimming and skating would be included in the membership fee. Sevenich responded that it currently is and this would not change. Sevenich said she would like to address some of the questions that have been raised regarding the fees. The current membership base was used in determining how the membership was utilized. Previously, seniors were classified as 55 or older. The criteria is changing that to 62 or older. Sevenich said they reviewed the cost for use per member in the private sector. This review included looking at the cost per visit,per person for PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES December 3, 2007 Page 3 using the facility including the cost for electricity, etc. They also determined what the market could bear based on other community centers. The City Council did direct staff to cover more of their operating costs and this was part of their overall decision in setting the pricing. Elliott-S toering said that in pricing the membership fees, there appeared to be a concerted effort to exclude more people based on the significant increase for families from$265 to $924. Sevenich explained that in their strategic team meetings they looked at how they want to increase membership. They looked at attrition assuming that people will leave for a variety of reasons and people will want to join for certain reasons. They did not say they wanted to out-price people. They looked at the membership fee as a component of the Community Center. They also looked at what a true fitness global membership would be. Staff developed fees they felt would work with that component of the Community Center. Sevenich said they did consult with current members but they did not ask them how much they wanted to pay. Obiazor explained that they do not solicit the public when setting recreation fees. They compare and base the fee on the value of the program. Their intent for programming is cost recovery and they looked at previous rates and what users will be getting with the expanded Community Center. Elliott-S toering said she realizes that there are private entities whose prices are higher for the same amenities. However, with the Community Center they are asking users to pay extra for some of those amenities. Sevenich pointed out that at a non-premium club, the Community Center's highest rate is lower than that club's lowest rate. She also explained that the responses received from the Community Center's current members regarding the fees are mixed. She is only aware of five people who will not rejoin because of the fee increase. By March and April they should have a better idea of the membership numbers because of the renewals. Elliott-S toering indicated that the price seems to encourage more of a daily use than a membership use. Sevenich said that everyone has to decide how they want to spend their money. This is an affordable option for activities for children and it is their hope that there are enough options available. They took the amenities and made a package. It allows users to purchase ala carte or to purchase a package. Obiazor pointed out that when they surveyed Community Center users they found that 90 percent of the current members' primary reason for joining the Community Center was for the fitness center. They want to be in a regular exercise fitness program. Barrett indicated that packaging of the various programs may be the issue. He asked how staff decided to group the items and questioned if an ala carte program would be too hard to administer. Sevenich answered that from a team perspective, it is difficult to run a business where people can select this or that. It is too unpredictable. They have to decide what different activities different people will use. They did not include childcare because they did not feel the majority of users would use it. If it appeared that the majority of people would use something it was incorporated into the package. Elliott-Stoering said the pricing almost encourages one-time single use for open skate and open swim. Sevenich pointed out that the membership daily rate is $7.50 and if someone would do that more than twice a week they might as well have the membership. They have to balance the Community Center use with affordability. PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES December 3, 2007 Page 4 Obiazor pointed out that staff has been directed to provide a service and to cover as much of their costs as possible. Elliott-Stoering said that a business has to make a profit to pay for a building, land, landscaping, etc. The Community Center does not have those costs. Obiazor responded that they anticipate a $1.3 million shortfall that the taxpayers will be subsidizing and she questioned what level of subsidizing is appropriate. Elliott-S toering said this is something that should be made clearer to the public. Jacobus pointed out that the proposed membership fee to the Community Center is still 40 percent less than the cost for a membership at a Life Time facility. He said there has to be a happy medium. Jacobus said he sees a lot of people joining the Community Center because it will be less than a private facility and he feels that the $1.3 million is a big subsidy. Users will be getting so much more with the new facility. Oko asked what was being done to market the Community Center. Sevenich responded that they will be marketing it through various City publications, the City's website, current members, etc. Oko also asked if they would be marketing to companies and their employees. Sevenich explained that they do have five major sponsors that have allowed them to go into their companies to tell their employees about their programs. They may also offer wellness opportunities. Sevenich said she would get a listing to the Commission of the corporate sponsors that have rooms named after them. These corporations are offered resident privileges. Elliott-Stoering said she feels the marketing of the facility got off to a bad start and how it was presented to people. They need to focus on the fact that it isn't all about a membership. Sevenich said it is unfortunate that it came out that way and they do need to do a better job. They need to talk about the new Community Center and what it will provide to the community versus membership to the Community Center. They also have the Passport to Fun Scholarship that can be used by lower income people for use of the Community Center. Barrett questioned how the pricing would look if they removed swimming and skating from the full membership fee. Sevenich said they would have to do an evaluation of the cost. Elliott-S toering said many of the people she has talked to join only for the fitness piece. Lotthammer said it is important that they don't have too much ala carte because it then becomes too difficult to monitor. Mike Boland, 13579 Berkshire Lane, said he represents a small group of Community Center members. He reviewed with the Commission the vision and mission for developing a new Community Center. He also reviewed the history of the various committees, task forces, etc. that worked on developing the plan for the new facility. He said he has several questions he would like this Commission to ask themselves while considering this issue. The first is do they believe that the proposed membership fee really meets the vision and does it serve the population and is that tremendous increase being borne by the fitness members only or have they added a 350 percent increase to the pool rental or ice rental groups. Also, they did vastly improve the Community Center but they only added one new amenity which is the gym. He asked if they are welcoming the populations that they targeted this Community Center to including youth, young families PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES December 3, 2007 Page 5 and seniors. Are they a for-profit business or are they providing services to groups? It seems that they should be able to accommodate them with a tailored membership. Boland said that health care reimbursement requires that the participant attend a minimum number of times. He said people will do anything to get that reimbursement and they may even swipe their card without working out. Boland pointed out that the Community Center was created through this Commission and he hopes they haven't lost all of the work that has gone into developing this facility. He feels it is incumbent of this Commission to carry that work forward. It is also imperative for this Commission to evaluate whether the new Community Center concept meets the vision of why it was built. Beverly Boland, 13579 Berkshire Lane, said she worked to get the referendum for this Community Center passed and feels that part of the vision for the Community Center has been lost. They have talked about marketing the Center to businesses and she feels they need to focus on the residents of the community. They also talked about the fee structure and she feels they are missing a base fee for use of the fitness facility. They should determine how much of the membership is using different parts of the facility. Boland questioned if the fee for swim and ice use has also been increased 350 percent or is the increase for members only. She said she does not disagree that Community Center fees should be increased but she feels they have been increased too much. They haven't even opened the doors and already the fees have been increased 350 percent. Boland said she feels they are making assumptions on marketing when they don't even know what the base is now. Fees should be increased in steps and not all at once. Boland asked that they consider creating a fee for those who only use the work-out facility. People who work from 9 to 5 cannot use the pool or hockey rink because they are used by the Associations in the evening. Bruce Heyer, 6450 Hummingbird Lane, said he feels that there are not enough people who want to use the gym but yet they are getting charged for the entire thing. Heyer said he also agrees that the fees should be increased with the new facility but he feels a 350 percent increase is too high. They had to build this facility with the high school and hockey and swim teams in mind and because of that they do not have full use of the facility. They cannot compare this facility to a private facility for that very reason. Jeff Strate, 15021 Summerhill, said he was representing the Human Rights and Diversity Commission. Many of their concerns have been answered this evening during the previous presentation. The Commission was reacting to the membership fees and he appreciates knowing that the daily fees are subsidized. The Commission was concerned that if the fees were so high they might lead to some stratification for some participants. They are also concerned that the Passport to Fun Scholarship may need to be upgraded in some way so that it reaches a far greater number of people. The Human Rights Commission is recommending that they look at this to see how they can get the word out about the Passport to Fun Scholarship. Barrett said he thinks they all agree that the Passport for Fun Scholarship program is underutilized and perhaps they should have a joint meeting with the Human Rights and PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES December 3, 2007 Page 6 Diversity Commission to determine how they can better use this program. Lotthammer explained that those that are using the Passport for Fun program are not using those funds for regular programs. They do use the fitness component of the Community Center for free. Lotthammer said they need to make some policy changes to the program. Sevenich said one of the items they will be addressing is the use of the Community Center during the evening hours. They did see a demand and need for use of all of the areas of the Community Center. With the addition of the third ice rink, there is more ice time available. With regards to the pool, the Fox Jets will be using Oak Point and this will open up the pool for residents and members. Napuck said she believes this is important information that needs to be out in the community. They need to explain that there will be more accessibility to parts of the facility that were not open to the users before. Napuck said that the question regarding whether or not other user fees are also being increased needs to be addressed. Sevenich responded that those groups do receive a standard annual increase and this is something they have not looked at from this perspective. They definitely need to do an evaluation and the need to look at what other facilities they utilize such as the locker rooms. A decision on the increase has not yet been made. Lotthammer said it is difficult to visualize the amount of community use that will occur at this new facility. It is much more than just fitness use. A lot of the visions presented in 2000 are happening. People will come to this facility for many different reasons. There is so much more to this Community Center than lifting weights or working out. There will be art classes conducted at this facility along with many other activities. Elliott-S toering said she is struggling with the daily use fee only increasing 30 percent while the membership fee increased over 300 percent. She asked why there was such a discrepancy. Barrett asked how they arrived at these numbers. He asked if there was a specific formula that they used in developing this fee schedule. Sevenich explained that one of the things they looked at is if they are a family with one child or two children you could do a dual membership. Four people would constitute a family membership. There are also other options for family memberships including two significant others and four children. Sevenich said there are a variety of ways to mix and match family members. Bierman said the biggest discrepancy appears to be with the membership fee. He asked how the $924 number was arrived at. He indicated that they need to determine what the contributors were in arriving at this new fee to find a solution to the huge increase. Lotthammer responded that in private industry, the main factor for arriving at fees is profit. When they consider the public factor, it is more important to look at the bottom line and determine what the outcome will be. Lotthammer explained that the proposed operating budget for 2008 has a deficit of$1.3 million assuming the fees currently being proposed. The subsidy proposed for 2009 is $1 million. He also pointed out that membership is only a small component of the Community Center. They are selling ice time and meeting space. Lotthammer stated that the feedback they have heard from the City Council is that they should attempt to close the gap between revenue and expenditures and one of the ways to do that is with memberships. They are also looking PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES December 3, 2007 Page 7 at the charges for ice time. Lotthammer further explained that they have done some market comparisons including comparing this facility to private industry. Bierman stated that this Commission has to come up with a recommendation to the Council. If they recommend that the membership fee be reduced to $624 they don't even know how much they are asking the City to absorb nor do they know what the impact this reduction would have. He indicated that it is difficult to make a recommendation without knowing what the ramifications of that recommendation would be. Sevenich said she does not have the numbers with her that were used in determining the various fees. They did predict how many memberships they have to sell to cover operating costs. Oko said she would like to see a cost benefit analysis with operating costs versus membership projections at the $924 a year fee and see what the difference is. Lotthammer responded that they are projecting revenue of$405,000 in membership fees for 2008. Overall, total revenue is projected to be $1.4 million. Bierman pointed out that they are in this as a team. They need to do a better marketing job. They are building something that people can be proud of and they need to find a way to have people take advantage of it. He indicated that the public has only heard negative things about this facility and have not heard about all of the nice benefits it will provide. Once people see all of the other amenities, additional revenue may be generated which could be used to offset a 25 percent change in the membership fee. Barrett stated that this Commission could recommend to the City Council whatever they want but he does not feel they can do it arbitrarily. They don't have the information they need to make an educated recommendation. Perhaps they should come back next month when they have the necessary numbers to make a wise decision. City Manager Neal explained that earlier this evening the City Council adopted the fee schedule for the year. The fees being proposed for the Community Center were included in that fee schedule and have been adopted. This Commission can still make a recommendation to change the fee structure but it is integrated into the City's General Fund. If the fees are decreased, the General Fund would have to be adjusted to account for that decrease or the tax rate would have to be increased. This may be difficult for the City Council to do. The Truth in Taxation hearing was held this evening and a final vote on the City's budget will occur on December 18. Mackay asked if it would be possible to take $45,000 from park fees to write down the membership fees. Neal responded that park improvement funds may not be used for operating expenses. He also explained that residents who don't use the facility are also paying for the $1.3 million shortfall. Oko said that she is asking that when this Commission is asked to review fees for the Community Center next year, they show the Commission how they have marketed the Community Center. She strongly urged that they market it to corporate clients so that those fees subsidize the lower income families. The publicity on the Community Center PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES December 3, 2007 Page 8 has been negative and she feels they need to get better publicity. Staff has done an excellent job in putting this Community Center together but no one knows about it. They need to let the people know that there is so much more going on at this facility than just memberships. Oko said she would also like to see how staff captures data. She would like to see how many family memberships there are, how many dual memberships, etc. She said that in general, she feels staff has done a great job. Elliott-S toering said she feels that as a Commission they have not done a good job. They have had a two-hour discussion on something that has already been decided on. They are an advisory commission and the Commission has not been used. Neal explained that setting of fees is generally something the City Council does not seek advisory feedback. Lotthammer stated that if this Commission feels it is appropriate, staff would add the review of fees and charges on an annual basis to the Commission's work plan. The review of fees and charges by this Commission has not been done in the past but this is certainly something they can do. Elliott-S toering said that the Community Center fees are a huge material change. The Commission spent a lot of time on garden fee rates but yet had no input on these fees. Barrett pointed out that the Commission did discuss ice time fees and allowed the public to speak to that. Gerst said he does feel the Commission should review everything and especially fees that are marginally increased but anything that is beyond marginal should be reviewed. Mackay said he believes their job is to be a buffer for staff and to not include the Commission in this is a big mistake. Neal said that in the future this would be brought to the Commission. This year they have had some issues including how the Budget Advisory Commission was structured and how they fit in the structure of rates, charges and fees. Sevenich explained that staff does look for this Commission's support and it is easier to work with the residents knowing that they have this Commission's support. Barrett said that this Commission was also not given the opportunity to make a decision on the walking track and when they talked about a third rink it was already decided that a third rink would be added. There have been a variety of issues like this. This Commission puts a lot of time in and Barrett questioned what their role is. Lotthammer apologized to the Commission and said going forward, this is something that can easily be incorporated into their work plan. It is not their intent to diminish the role of this Commission. Elliott-S toering pointed out that the membership is truly a small focus that could have been included and presented in the newspapers better. She also mentioned that a recommendation to have a workout facility membership fee rather than just an all-inclusive membership for$924 was made. She asked if it is too late to consider this. Napuck asked that since the City Council adopted the fee schedule, what would this Commission's role be in making a recommendation for an additional breakdown of membership. Neal responded that there is no statutory or administrative reason why this Commission can't propose a modification. However,he is not sure this is something that PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES December 3, 2007 Page 9 has been analyzed. Napuck recommended that the Commission revisit this issue after they have had an opportunity to really see what people are coming to the Community Center for. Mackay asked if staff felt there was a demand for a fitness program. Sevenich said she did not know. In looking at other communities she is only aware of one other facility that offers a fitness only program. Sevenich said they can evaluate this proposal over the course of the year and look at the demands and concerns. She also explained that they do have the daily use fees so that individuals can use whatever components they want. Bierman said that earlier in the year the Commission was told that bids were coming in under budget. He questioned what happens to the budgeted funds for those projects that come in under budget. Neal answered when the bids come in under budget, the extra funds are reprogrammed into the Capital Improvement Program. Bierman suggested that they consider using their current membership to generate additional memberships. He suggested that they consider giving current members a discount if they get someone else to join the Center. Staff needs to look at marketing strategies. Sevenich said this is something they can look at. Neal said he feels that it may be premature to judge their marketing effort of the Community Center as a failure. It is too early to make that judgment. Fox suggested that any Commission members that have not toured the facility give Sevenich a call. He feels that once they see the new facility, they may feel differently about it. Elliott-Stoering said it is important that they focus on participation fees and not on membership fees. Napuck said she would like the opportunity for this Commission to reassess the issues discussed this evening and to receive feedback at some future date to see how everything is going. Strate asked why the City Council passed the fee schedule this evening without any of the Commissioners knowing about it. Napuck said that is the message they are sending to the City Council. Perhaps next year it will be handled differently. VII. OLD BUSINESS VIII. NEW BUSINESS IX. REPORTS OF STAFF A. DIRECTOR OF PARKS AND RECREATION FYI: Truth in Taxation Hearing/Council meeting—December 3 at 7 p.m. B. MANAGER OF RECREATION SERVICES 1. PRNR Meeting Work Plan—2008 Topics PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES December 3, 2007 Page 10 Obiazor explained that a draft work plan was included in the Commission's agenda material and is being provided for informational purposes only. This is a working draft and shows the important dates coming up. They will add the review of 2009 fees mid- year in 2008. Mackay said he would like to see a listing of decisions staff will want this Commission's input on. Oko said she would like to have an update perhaps in June on how Community Center enrollments are going. Fox explained that this work plan is a general guide to see what things they want to accomplish. 2. Reizistration Policies and Procedures The Commission agreed to table this item until their January meeting. 3. Passport to Fun Scholarship Obiazor reported that staff is recommending changes to the Passport to Fun Fee Assistance Program. The current program provides participants free access to open swim and open skate, including skate rentals in addition to $150 fee assistance per year toward recreation programming. She explained that staff is recommending including Community Center open gym to the list of free access programs, allowing qualified participants free access to open swim, open skate and open gym throughout the year. They are also recommending allowing qualified participants to use $150 in fee assistance per year towards the cost of a membership to the Community Center. Under the current policy, they do not pay for any fees under $10. Mackay said he would like to see an exception made to this policy allowing the participants to use the fee assistance for daily use fees to the Community Center even though it is less than $10. Obiazor indicated that the $10 assistance applies to programming and the daily rate fee would apply. This would allow access to the fitness center with a 50150 match. She explained that the current budget for this Program is $6,000. Based upon utilization in the past, there is sufficient funding to cover the scholarships. Motion: Mackay moved, seconded by Oko, to recommend changes to the Passport to Fun Fee Assistance Program to include free access to Community Center open gym and allow scholarship dollars to apply to a Community Center membership or daily use fee beginning January 1, 2008. The motion carried, 7-0. 4. Fall Recreation Proizram Review The Commission agreed to table this item to their January meeting. FYI: School's Out Programs FYI: Outdoor Ice Skating Rinks C. MANAGER OF PARKS AND NATURAL RESOURCES 1. Camp Edenwood Update PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MINUTES December 3, 2007 Page 11 Lotthammer reported that this past week six to eight Senators toured the Camp Edenwood facility to evaluate the facility for being included in a possible bonding proposal. Friendship Ventures and Brauer and Associates were also in attendance. Lotthammer said they were told that the State has volumes of project applications but staff will continue to move forward with the master plan. It could be several more months before they hear whether or not they will receive funds from this bonding proposal. Lotthammer explained that if they receive no funding, Friendship Ventures might still make updates to the facility. The master plan is critical to this project and work can be done in stages. D. COMMUNITY CENTER MANAGER X. NEXT MEETING Barrett asked that staff be respectful of the Commission's time. He feels they should have been told that the City Council was considering the fee schedule this evening and that it had been adopted. They spent two hours on an item that had already been decided on. Lotthammer said it was his assumption that the fee schedule took a first and second reading and that there would have been an opportunity for the Commission's comments to go back to the City Council prior to December 18. Bierman asked that for the January meeting, the Commission be provided with an update as to where they are with the bond referendum funding. The next regular meeting of the Commission is scheduled for Monday, January 7, 2008 at 7:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers. XI. ADJOURNMENT Motion: Bierman moved, Barrett seconded, to adjourn the meeting. The motion carried 7-0. The meeting was adjourned at10:25 p.m.