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Conservation Commission - 05/09/2006 APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE CONSERVATION COMMISSION TUESDAY,MAY 9,2006 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER PRAIRIE ROOM A & B 8080 MITCHELL ROAD COMMISSION MEMBERS: Eapen Chacko, Chair; Jan Mosman, Vice Chair; Ray Daniels, Rita Krocak, Geneva MacMillan, David Seymour GUESTS: Pat Brink, Communications Manager Paul Sticha, Facilities Manager COMMISSION STAFF: Leslie Stovring, Staff Liaison Allison Burr, Recording Secretary I. ROLL CALL Chair Chacko called the meeting to order at 7:04 p.m. Jan Mosman arrived at 7:07 p.m. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Stovring noted there will be two new items under Reports of Staff: Students on the Commission and the September meeting date. MOTION: Mosman moved, seconded by Krocak, to approve the agenda as amended. Motion carried 7-0. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. APRIL 11,2006 COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES MOTION: MacMillan, seconded by Seymour,to approve the minutes as published. Motion carried 7-0. IV. REPORTS OF STAFF A. SUBCOMMITTEE EMAIL/PHONE USAGE Stovring reported subcommittee members can talk to each other as long as it is two-or three- member subcommittees. In that case, it will not be a quorum. However, if Commission members go outside the bounds of the subcommittee, that communication should go through Stovring. Stovring added if Commissioners are handling anything of a business nature, they should print a copy of it and put it in the Commission file to keep record of it, or forward a copy of it to Stovring and she can make a copy of it. B. COMMISSION LOGO IDEA Stovring indicated she discussed with City Manager Scott Neal the idea of the Commission using its own logo, and he indicated it will not be possible. Neal expressed concern the logo Eden Prairie Conservation Commission May 9, 2006 Page 2 would set a precedent such that all the Commissions will want a logo. Additionally, a new Commission chair may want another new logo, which would be too difficult to manage. Mosman stated she anticipated the logo may cause some problems,but perhaps the Commission can find a way to still identify itself. She suggested the media department can help the Commission establish how to draw attention to something it is doing,like awards or something of that nature. Brink stated when the Commission is using the City letterhead; the top left can read Conservation Commission, and the regular City logo will still be on the right-hand side. Stovring added there are other types of logos depending on the type of printed material that is put out. Brink explained the various logo options. C. STUDENTS ON COMMISSION Stovring noted the student Commission terms have been broken into two terms;one will begin in September and one will begin in January. Students can indicate on the application whether they want both terms(for the school year)or one or the other term. Stovring added it is hoped that students may be willing to try out two different Commissions during the course of the year. Additionally,those students that would normally drop out from the Commission in the second half due to busy schedules can now just sign up for the fall term. Mosman asked when the application period is. Stovring explained the recruitment period is May 9 through June 2. The information will be posted at all schools with Eden Prairie School students, including private schools, Hopkins, and other places. Chacko inquired if there is a description of what is expected of the student members. Stovring responded there have been students who want to be very active and others who sit and just learn. The point is to learn,but if someone wants to come and participate in the group,that is a bonus. She noted there is an application form on the website to fill out. The students have to be willing to come, learn, and be part of the Commission, although they will not be a voting member. D. SEPTEMBER MEETING DATE Stovring stated the scheduled September meeting falls on a primary election day. The options are to begin the meeting at 8:00 p.m.or move it to the week before or week after,or possibly to a Wednesday night. Mosman expressed support for a September 191h meeting. All Commission members agreed September 19, at 7 p.m., will be the meeting date. MOTION: Daniels moved,seconded by Krocak,to hold the September meeting on September 19, 2006, at 7 p.m. Motion carried 7-0. V. NEW BUSINESS VL OLD BUSINESS VII. REPORTS FROM COMMISSION CHAIR Eden Prairie Conservation Commission May 9, 2006 Page 3 Daniels asked if he wants to share something with the group, should it be considered under New Business or a Commission Members report. He indicated he receives the Weekly Session from the House of Representatives and on it includes interesting information on the state of Minnesota. Recently there was some information on wind turbines, and he would like to share that with Commission members. Stovring noted the agenda categories are pretty fluid. She recommended any Commissioner send her an email indicating a desire to have an item under a certain category. Stovring added if it is an item a Commissioner wishes to solicit support for, it may fall under New Business. A. DRAFT WORK PLAN Chacko noted the first copy of the work plan has been distributed to the Commission members. A disadvantage in preparing it was he had nothing to model it on and also could not obtain any feedback from Commission members. Thirdly, he clarified that the information presented in the work plan does not represent the Commission until it has been discussed. He noted the document is an attempt to take some of the issues discussed in the early meetings and lay them out in a work plan. The model of the two-person subcommittee was incorporated into the document. Chacko asked Stovring to discuss what the Commission should be getting from this work plan project. Stovring responded she met with Scott Neal and the public works director, and all were impressed with the targets and goals in the document. The personalization of the work plan is something that needs to be taken out because it is a Commission document for the present as well as going into the future. The only thing Neal potentially had a problem with was the sustainability piece that was added on the end. He believes it is too much for the Commission to take on, and he was not comfortable having the Commission take it on since it was not part of the charter statement. Also, sustainable agriculture is not on the horizon yet. Mosman asked if the sustainability idea is something the Commission can hold on to and later come back to it and suggest it to the Council as something to work on. Stovring responded there are going to be meetings with the Council in the future. The Commission can mention that perhaps the charter statement needs to be tweaked or would suggest something to be added. Chacko explained the inclusion of the sustainability piece came about because the sustainability concept is threaded through a number of concepts the Commission will address and is a concept that could potentially unite a lot of disparate elements like water quality and waste reduction. Stovring commented on the farmer's market. She noted the issue has come up before and was a very contentious issue. The Council did discuss the idea last year and do not appear to be interested in pursuing it further at this time. Brink stated the issue last year was the market was going to be run by a private company on City property. Mosman agreed that the issue was a for-profit business on City property. The result,however, was two of the local farms came to Lake Riley for Sunbonnet days, and all three farmers may do it again this year. Mosman noted many of the communities around Eden Prairie have farmer's markets. Stovring stated a lot of the communities with farmer's markets have them at City town centers. At this point,it is not clear where the town center in Eden Prairie actually is.There are some proposals that are a step in that direction which will make the City more walkable and more accessible for Eden Prairie Conservation Commission May 9, 2006 Page 4 people and a farmer's market may be incorporated at that time on private property. Daniels stated he would like to include the word sustainability in the work plan because that is one of the tenets of the Commission,how to sustain energy,food,etcetera. Stovring stated that although sustainability is not called out as one of the charter statement items,there are ways to incorporate these without being a separate item. A problem is created in adding on things that were not there. Chacko suggested the compromise might be that sustainability should be an underlying principle of what the Commission is trying to do. For example, in addition to an initiative to pull soda out of schools, the next step is to have students eat something good for them that is grown locally. Taking soda out by itself will not take care of the problem because students will go to Caribou or somewhere else. Chacko stated over time this document has to evolve into the Commission's guidance document and something to be left behind for future members. He inquired if Commissioners would like to take it home and review it, as it is probably too long to discuss tonight. Chacko noted the websites footnoted are the ones that would have a fairly broad-based usage. The University of Minnesota extension relates to the state's land-grant college. He noted residents have had questions about recycling batteries and things of that nature. The extension website has all of that type of information on it. Stovring displayed a printout of the current website and discussed the space that is available for website links. Chacko stated perhaps this document can be discussed at a future meeting under Old Business and people can add comments at that time. Seymour indicated the work plan is organized based on the commission work plan discussed at the last meeting. He agreed with the idea of Commission members mulling it over and perhaps adding something in the area to which they are assigned. Chacko stated if some of the items need to be removed or added,that is fine. Seymour stated that with a couple of projects he has started, some new ideas have been created as well. He noted this may be an evolving thing as well. Chacko agreed. Stovring reminded the Commission this document will have to be approved at some point. Chacko stated the final document will have to be a little less abstract and less wordy. Seymour pointed out that the website is still requesting applications for the Commission. Stovring noted that the website needs to be changed and updated. Brink stated he can take a group picture this evening for the website. The meeting recessed at 7:42 p.m. The meeting reconvened at 7:49 p.m. VIII. REPORTS FROM COMMISSION MEMBERS OR SUBCOMMITTEES A. GREEN ROOFING AT EP MUNICIPAL BUILDINGS PRELIMINARY REPORT — DAVID SEYMOUR AND PAUL STICHA Paul Sticha stated he is the facilities manager for the City and he has been here for two years. Eden Prairie Conservation Commission May 9, 2006 Page 5 His position is brand-new to the City. His background is in mechanical engineering,and he has had 30 years' experience in construction, operations, and building management. He reported he works with things like heating and cooling,doors and windows,and driveways and parking lots. He is a promoter of alternative energy and energy conservation. In the late 70s and early 80s he read a number of books on earth shelter homes and solar homes. Sticha noted a green roof is not inexpensive. One may hear claims about huge energy savings; however,he does not believe that yet. There will be some savings,but not huge. Sticha noted there will be a lot of contradictions about green roofs, rubber roofs, et cetera. He wants to pursue green roofs for the City,and perhaps in the next couple of years there will be a couple of green roofs on City properties. The Community Center will be a great opportunity. An addition will be put on next spring, so it is not too late to discuss putting a green roof on the addition. There are also a couple options for a retro-fit. He noted some may say a green roof can be put on any existing structure,but soil has weight,and when it is soaked,it will double or triple the weight. Sticha indicated he is in favor of green roofs,but he is here before the Commission to explain they will not be inexpensive. Stovring noted this idea is becoming more popular,and as things are more popular, prices become more competitive. Stovring indicated when the City of Plymouth remodeled its City Center, a lot of sustainable design features were added including a green roof as well as different strategies for air movement and other things. She knows the City of Minneapolis has incorporated quite a few green roofs in a number of areas. There are some available to see. The Library has one open to the public. There is also a new grocery store going in downtown that will have a green roof. Stovring stated her understanding is what has to be done to the subsurface is the biggest challenge. She understands there are options out there that are no heavier than an average winter snow load. Seymour stated he has spoken with Elizabeth Ryan of Kestrel Design Group, which did the new green roof on the Minneapolis library. They have won numerous awards and have done big projects in the Metro. Seymour stated Peter MacDonagh from Kestrel has agreed to give a presentation at the Commission meeting next month. Their claim is they can retrofit any roof without any additional structure. They believe roofs are already engineered enough for the weight of the snow factor. Seymour stated green roofs are very new in the United States, but they have been used in Germany and Netherlands for 40 years or more. They have trees on those roofs. Seymour stated he and Sticha thought the fire station next to the City Center would be a good roof to retrofit. He noted the new addition to the Community Center is also an option. Daniels asked if there can be a way to put next month's presentation on the website or get it out there in some other manner. Stovring stated she will look into the various options on the website, as well as perhaps in the local newspaper. Seymour asked if there can be a separate insert in the Eden Prairie newspaper for future topics. Stovring responded the chances for that are pretty slim. Mosman stated teachers have their students do research on various websites. This could be advertised to all schools with Eden Prairie students in them,because parents can be drawn in as Eden Prairie Conservation Commission May 9, 2006 Page 6 well to assist their kids. Stovring noted in that case it is important to include things adults can do themselves. Sticha noted there are six or eight green roofs around the Twin Cities. He cited a number of local buildings with green roofs. He suggested the Commission can meet with them,look at the buildings, and talk with the owners and designers. Sticha noted the General Electric building on the frontage road of 494 had an earthen roof on a building 20 or 25 years ago to meet the City codes for the amount of green space on the property. Unfortunately, they fought with leaks for 10 years and gave up. There is now a conventional roof there. Chacko inquired if something should be put on the agenda to carry this idea of green roofs through. Sticha noted Corey at the Green Roof Institute would be a good resource for the Commission. Seymour stated he will talk to Corey as well as Peter McDonough from Kestrel Design Group before he comes to speak next month. Seymour noted the USA Today article he handed out is a quick FAQ-style article. Stovring noted that she felt that permeable concrete has a lot of promise for the future. Permeable concrete for example is currently being tested by Mn-DOT. In the winter it does appear to remain permeable,and during the winter it melts during the day and infiltrates so fast that it does not refreeze at night,leaving a dry pavement that is safer for pedestrians and traffic. Seymour presented a visual presentation of green roofs. He noted there has to be a way for folks to check out a model of a green roof so they can get excited about it. Mosman asked if the roofs are pitched. Seymour stated yes,there are a lot of modern architects out there doing pitched roofs. Mosman asked if the roofs are not pitched, could there be the same problems as with flat roofs. Sticha noted there is a very slight slope for drainage. Seymour stated he has read a lot about the cooling effect of green roofs for the entire building. In a really tall building, the cooling effect will be limited to a couple of floors. The cooling effect is really astounding on a one-or two-story building. He noted he understands it also acts as a natural insulation. Sticha stated soil is a good temperature moderator,especially with the plants on it.The insulation value is not as much as the cooling effect in the summer. Mosman asked if there ends up being less insulation to gain the benefits of the cooling in the summer. Sticha responded no. It is a moderating effect. The heat cannot penetrate through the insulation. However,insulation is not perfect either. Houses are well insulated,but they still have to be heated. Seymour noted in his report, he has bullet points of the benefits, which include aesthetics. There have been numbers studies done on office buildings and hospitals with green roofs. The patient recovery rates have increased and office workers' productivity have also increased. Sticha noted the best part about green roofs is the stormwater management aspect. Seymour provided a visual presentation on permeable pavers and permeable concrete. B. RAINWATER GARDEN REPORT—DAVID SEYMOUR Eden Prairie Conservation Commission May 9, 2006 Page 7 Seymour gave a presentation on rainwater gardens. He displayed some photos of rainwater gardens in Maplewood and Burnsville. He explained the environmental benefits of the rainwater gardens. Stovring stated Burnsville's rainwater gardens are her favorite of all those she has seen in the Metro because they made it a part of the homeowners' yards. They put in retaining walls and made them look sculpted and planned. Stovring noted there are often complaints about the gardens because they are ugly. However, Burnsville hired a consultant to work with the homeowners. Some of the residents have apparently suggested that the homes on that street look better because of what was done. In fact,they have found that some of the people who did not sign up for them decided they wish they had installed them. In Maplewood many of the original rain gardens look like ditches that are planted with native vegetation. Seymour suggested exploring doing rainwater gardens on the City of Eden Prairie's property in addition to exploring green roofs. Stovring noted the new fire station will have one. Stovring noted there has been no runoff on the Dunn Brothers rainwater garden. Stovring added that lots of people are used to seeing the failures where the gardens did not turn out well. They do not want to focus on the successes and realize how nice they can be. Mosman stated the rainwater gardens that have failed need to be addressed as well. Seymour stated the failures at Maplewood are in the aesthetics;but they still function.He noted in Burnsville, they have studied rainfall for two years between one neighborhood with a rainwater garden and one without, and found an 82 percent reduction in stormwater runoff in the neighborhood with the rainwater garden. Stovring inquired when the fire station will be completed. Sticha responded it is supposed to be completed by Christmas. Stovring suggested maybe next summer an event could be held at the fire station to get the public to come. Sticha departed the meeting at 8:39 p.m. Stovring suggested the Commission write something to the Parks Commission recommending the incorporation of a green roof into the remodel of the Community Center. She suggested it should be worked on after the next meeting. C. PROJECT GREEN FLEET Chacko stated Project Green Fleet is a partnership among businesses,government agencies,and nonprofit organizations to reduce emissions from school buses. Their website is www.projectgreenfleet.org. He noted the project is managed by the Minnesota Environmental Initiative. Chacko highlighted some of the statistical data on the website,including the harmful effects of diesel emissions on human life. Mosman asked if diesel emissions are more toxic than other emissions. Chacko responded it is different because diesel emissions create fine soot. There are natural particulates in the area, but then on top of that is the diesel soot. It has been linked to an increased incidence of breathing-related illnesses such as asthma, and Minnesota is seeing an increased incidence of asthma. Chacko noted there is an article in the New York Times about asthma and kids around Eden Prairie Conservation Commission May 9, 2006 Page 8 high-traffic areas. Chacko highlighted the positives of diesel fuel including better gas mileage and less negative effect from stop-and-go driving. One of the goals of this project is to install pollution-control equipment to reduce emissions from school bus. The cost of the equipment is approximately $2,000 per vehicle and involves a new tailpipe and a new fuel filter. Chacko noted the Donaldson Company is a large public company that has been a pioneer in this technology. They have put their technology in the context of school districts. There are a couple of districts who have taken this on including School District 196. District 196 is a district of 28,500 students and owns a fleet of 200 buses, which is twice the size of the Eden Prairie fleet. Chacko continued that District 196 piloted a conversion project with Donaldson, and now the district has come on board as a full partner and has received a grant to cover the equipment purchase and installation. Chacko concluded Project Green Fleet is underway;MEI holds the grant funding and they are looking for additional districts to partnership with. He suggested that the Commission find out if it is possible for Eden Prairie to access some of this grant money. Stovring suggested Chacko needs to check if the grant funding is there and also if the school district is interested in it. Chacko added there is also the Midwest Clean Diesel Initiative that is looking for grant proposals for the same kind of thing. He would like to investigate if these things are feasible. Seymour asked how Chacko wants him to proceed with the rainwater garden. Stovring responded next month the Commission will discuss green roofs, so when that is complete,the Commission can move on to the next topic, VIII. REPORTS FROM COMMISSION MEMBERS OR SUBCOMMITTEES - CONTINUED A. STORMWATER POLLUTION PREVENTION PROGRAM (SWPPP) — GENEVA MACMILLAN MacMillan noted she is overwhelmed with this topic because she is not very familiar with it. She suggested she would like to get together with Krocak and Stovring to become better familiarized with the issues. Stovring responded at the August meeting she can give a presentation to the Commission about SWPPP. She noted the SWPPP is going to the Council next week for approval, and with that comes a whole list of best management practices. Education is an aspect of that, and a lot of that should come out of the Commission. MacMillan asked if the Commission will look at targeting certain groups with education. Stovring responded affirmatively. MacMillan inquired how those groups will be selected. Stovring stated there will be items such as encouraging private property owners to sweep parking lots,the question of working on well abandonment, and a number of other ideas that fit into the SWPPP. B. GREEN AWARDS—.TAN MOSMAN AND DAVID SEYMOUR Eden Prairie Conservation Commission May 9, 2006 Page 9 Mosman stated the aspect of the Green Awards she has worked on is things people can actually do themselves for a home or a business. She also would like feedback on the format of the award program. IX. DISCUSSION ITEMS A. EDEN PRAIRIE SCHOOL WIDE SCIENCE FAIR—APRIL 22,2006 Stovring stated she and Krocak attended the Science Fair in April. It was very well attended and was a good way to work together rather than at the Central Middle School as in the past. B. ENVIRONMENTAL FAIR—JANUARY 2007 Stovring reported the current proposal for the Environmental Fair is to have the City's setup upstairs while the School District's Science Fair is downstairs. There can be one or two rooms for speakers as well. Krocak agreed that is a good idea as long as people are aware of what is going on upstairs. Stovring stated people would have to walk through the City's area in order to get to the Science Fair. Stovring stated the Commission needs to come up with an idea for a theme and speakers. She has a lot of ideas about vendors already, but invited ideas from Commissioners about tables, other vendors, or themes. She suggested perhaps the Commission can explore the theme of green roofs or other related topics. Seymour suggested a local contractor could build a little mock-up green roof so people can see the construction of a green roof,which would definitely catch some attention. Stovring stated that for the next meeting she will bring a list of the vendors who participated in the last fair. C. ENVIROCAMP IDEA—DAVID SEYMOUR Seymour asked Commission members to review the article and provide feedback next year. D. CONSERVATION COMMISSION WEB PAGE—POSTING IDEAS E. ARTICLE—"THE TRUTH ABOUT BIOFUELS"—POPULAR MECHANICS 5/06 F. ARTICLE — "SIGNING PRAISES OF GREEN FROM HENNEPIN COUNTY ROOFTOPS"—STAR TRIBUNE 2/24/06 IX. FUTURE MEETINGS/EVENTS A. EDEN PRAIRIE CLEAN UP—SATURDAY,.TUNE 17,2006 Krocak and Seymour indicated they will attend Clean Up Day. Stovring stated in the morning, help is needed collecting money. Help will also be needed at Eden Prairie Conservation Commission May 9, 2006 Page 10 the hot dog stand, directing traffic, as well as handing out information to residents. Stovring noted there will be a new fee schedule this year which may cause confusion and require assistance at the check-in line. XI. NEXT MEETING A. JUNE 13,2006—ENVIRONMENTAL LEARNING CENTER/WATER TREATMENT PLANT Stovring stated that there will be a tour of the Environmental Learning Center. Tours of the Water Plant are not open to the public. XII. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: MacMilllan moved,seconded by Seymour,to adjourn the meeting. Motion approved 7-0. The meeting adjourned at 9:07 p.m.