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Heritage Preservation - 05/15/2000 APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION Monday, May 15, 2000 7:00 p.m. City Center Prairie Rooms A and B Commission Members: Jan Mosman, Chairperson; Deborah Barkley,Jennie Brown, Lori Peterson- Benike, Kati Simons,Art Weeks, Mike Wroblewski Student Representative: Mark Perry Commission Staff: John Gertz, Historic Preservation Specialist I. ROLL CALL Chair Mosman called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. Commissioner Weeks and Student Representative Perry were absent. Present for a portion of the meeting were Parks and Recreation Services Director Bob Lambert, and Community Development and Financial Services Director Don Uram. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA MOTION: Peterson-Benike moved, seconded by Brown, to approve the agenda as published. Motion carried 6-0. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES —APRIL 17, 2000 MOTION: Peterson-Benike moved, seconded by Simons, to approve the minutes of the April 17, 2000, Heritage Preservation Commission meeting as published. Motion carried 6-0. IV. REPORTS AND REQUESTS Jeff Strate: Birch Island Woods Jeff Strate,representing The Friends of Birch Island Woods, explained that this area has 37 acres owned by Hennepin County, which has declared it surplus property and ordered it to be disposed of. By law, it must be offered first to the city in which it is located. The County is asking $1,230,000 for the 37 acres, and has given the City of Eden Prairie until December 31, 2000 to reach an agreement for acquisition. Strate's group is trying to convince the County to give the City the best deal possible. They have lobbied State Legislators and will continue to lobby the County Commissioners. Strate is inviting County Commissioners to see the woods. The group has applied for funding from the Legislative Commission on Minnesota Resources, which is funded by the State lottery. HERITAGE PRESERVATION MINUTES May 15, 2000 Page 2 Strate said The Friends of Birch Island Woods would like to get this area made into a special Conservancy District. The federal government also has developed National Heritage Areas through the National Park Service. Strate requested that the HPC look into this to see if it would be the best way to preserve the area. He suggested that the Picha farms, adjoining the Birch Island Woods, could also be included, but Bob Lambert said the City couldn't do that to property owners without their consent or compensation. They would have to petition for their property to be made more restrictive. Wroblewski asked how a Conservancy District protects the area. Strate replied it makes it more difficult for future City Councils to change the designation of this area. Simons asked if the City has made an offer to purchase the land from the County. Lambert said the City's position is the County should transfer ownership of the land to the City, and not require funds from the City to purchase it. If the City cannot buy it, there probably would be homes built on the small portion that can be developed. Ownership by the City would preserve this open space that has a lot of historical significance. However, as long as the County is insisting on having the appraised market value of$1.2 million, it is out of the question for the City to purchase it. The County Board's position is that$1.2 million would be money the County could use to provide a lot of services that would benefit the residents of the County. Strate said his group's main effort is to persuade the County Board that this asset is worth keeping for public use. Strate said if the City cannot obtain a purchase agreement with the County by December 31,he and his group will request a delay. Mosman thanked Strate for an interesting presentation and offered to contact him if there were more questions. This item will be put on the agenda for further discussion at the next HPC meeting. V. REPORTS OF COMMISSION AND STAFF A. Joint Meeting with Newport HPC Gertz reported on a meeting with the Newport HPC to which he was invited to talk to them about Eden Prairie's roadside sign program. They all thought it would be a good idea to tour the historic sites where the signs are posted and also to meet the EPHPC and share ideas. They would like to come out in October. Gertz said he would continue to talk to them and set up a meeting, not necessarily on a night when the Commission usually meets. B. Update on Agreement Between City of Eden Prairie and Eden Prairie Historical Society Gertz said the agreement is still going through some modifications regarding language and is not complete. VI. OLD BUSINESS HERITAGE PRESERVATION MINUTES May 15, 2000 Page 3 A. Project List for Lions Club Gertz said the Lions Club is interested in a list of projects they could look at, to select one for which they may possibly provide funding. The City has a number of projects at the Cummins-Grill house. Another site the HPC is going to be getting involved with is the Overlook Park site. The next step there would be to get a restoration architect to look at getting it back the way it was. As there was not enough time that evening, Mosman asked Gertz if he would draw up a list to give the Lions Club, and he said he would do that. B. Adaptive Reuse Planning for City Historic Homes Bob Lambert explained the Council had directed City Staff to work with the Program Board and the Heritage Preservation Commission to develop recommendations for future uses of the Cummins-Grill house, the More house and the Riley-Jacques farm. They were to work as a team. The recommendations from the HPC and Program Board would be going to the Council for a decision. The recommendations should contain several options and projected costs. Chris Enger had asked him and Don Uram to come to this meeting to discuss the issues and answer questions regarding management of these three sites. Lambert said there has never been a separate budget for maintaining each of these sites or a plan for how the public is going to use them. The HPC should set priorities for the use of these sites. There is a limit to the types of programs you would be able to do in those buildings. A renter is living in the Riley-Jacques farmhouse,but the rest of the property can be used for other purposes. The Council will want to know which of these projects is more important, so the Commission will have to think of good reasons why they feel the money should be moved from one house to the other. Uram said the $210,000 originally in the CIP for all the historic sites has been pulled out because of this adaptive reuse planning the HPC is doing. The City has funding in place for the "A" list of projects, totaling $13.6 million. The six-year CIP totals over$20 million. Mosman said even $210,000 didn't seem like much to work with. There is a way to find funds, however. The HPC has had requests to use houses for different purposes and will present to Council some ideas of things that can be done with limited funds. Gertz said the costs listed are conservative and would just bring the sites up to standard,but wherever the public is invited to use the facilities it would be necessary to meet the City codes and that will cost a lot more. Lambert said the HPC always tries to undersell the cost of renovating these buildings. These are expensive facilities to maintain, and the HPC needs to be "up front" with the costs. Let people understand what the benefits are, then the HERITAGE PRESERVATION MINUTES May 15, 2000 Page 4 money will be available. He said he is a strong supporter of doing something with the historic sites and wants to make sure the HPC program gets some funding. Wroblewski asked Lambert if he would support putting the houses on the "A" project list. Lambert replied yes, if the HPC has good uses for the houses. He wants the public walking through them on a regular basis. Mosman said she believes programs that would be self-sustaining and create some revenues would be the best ones. She stated it is good to have a deadline for submitting the plan. It will result in improvements being made to some of these houses and they are going to be used. Mosman asked Lambert about the possibility of moving the History Museum from the City Center to one of the houses. Currently the museum isn't open when school children can come. Lambert said he would agree to it, if she thinks putting the museum in a house would generate sufficient use to justify the cost of rehabilitating the house. The reason the museum isn't open during school hours is they cannot find volunteers to staff it. Lambert explained the guideline the City uses for subsidizing a program. It must be a recreational use and benefit a segment of residents, such as the children's swimming program, the summer playground program, the senior program, adaptive recreation program, etc. The History Museum is allowed in the City Center because the Council believes it is a recreational use of that space. By law the City cannot provide money to the Historical Society. The HPC would have to justify a subsidy the same as for all recreational programs the City supports. If the museum were moved to one of the historic houses, then it would be necessary for the City to hire a staff person to run it. Decisions would need to be made about the subsidy level, whether people would pay to come in, and would there be a new display every so often to attract repeat visitors. Mosman asked about the best way to approach the Council with cost figures. Is it best to suggest revenue-generating activities? Uram replied it is important to have realistic costs. He recommended a phasing program, spreading the cost over several years. He suggested setting priorities for what the HPC wants to accomplish and to look at operating costs. Revenue generation is always a plus. Grants are appreciated also. His department looks at all kinds of structure for financing a program. Lambert told the HPC to come up with several options. There would be nothing wrong with selling the More house, with restrictions on it. For$150,000 they can get those other two houses up to the level where they need to be. Another option would be to retain ownership of the More house, lease it, and have the person who leases it fix it up. Saving all three houses and making good use of all three may not be feasible. Lambert said to give the Council some vision of the opportunities the commissioners see. Gertz said he believed rehabilitation of the Riley-Jacques Farm and the Cummins- Grill house would allow them to have recreational uses. They have discussed a HERITAGE PRESERVATION MINUTES May 15, 2000 Page 5 rehabilitative approach for the More house, and a commercial use, such as a coffeehouse. Lambert said the only kind of recreational use he could envision for the Cummins-Grill site would be a historical use tied to the property, like teaching about the history of Eden Prairie. The recreational use of the Riley-Jacques property would probably be for day camps, farming, horseback riding, etc. Simons suggested, in addition to Sun Bonnet Days, other seasonal ideas could be developed. Gertz said it would be a problem for this Commission to fund programming of the planned uses. They need to have a concept for uses, and eventually it would be the job of Parks and Recreation staff to program and develop the space. Before they left the meeting, Mosman thanked Uram and Lambert for their assistance. HPC will work with staff on this plan. Simons reported that she was discouraged by what she found out about the idea of operating a coffeehouse at the More house. The cost would be prohibitive. The kitchen would not meet codes for a commercial kitchen. Mosman also had looked into the idea and agreed with Simons. It would be better to offer coffee and cookies in conjunction with another attraction, such as the museum, and have a sign suggesting payment of 50 cents for the coffee. Simons said she had one other idea for using the More house. The Ramsey House attracts groups of children and lets them try on Victorian costumes. They charge $50 for groups of 10. That would generate a lot of money. Gertz said this could also be done at the Cummins-Grill house. Mosman said, from the citizens' standpoint, the More house is more noticeable, and many people ask her about it. Simons had to leave the meeting at this point. Peterson-Benike said the More house seems to be a problem for the City staff and it appears they want to sell it. She believed the public wants it kept so they can see it. She would favor leasing it, with restrictions on exterior changes. Gertz said Lambert was right in saying they need to come up with options;he suggested not less than three per site. Wroblewski said he would oppose any plan that didn't exist when that house was built. He understands there is no home for art here in Eden Prairie, and he suggested that one house could be used by the art community. There could also be classes in such things as quilt making. Peterson-Benike suggested using the Cummins house for a school experience, similar to the old Cahill School in Edina. A retired teacher conducts the classes there. The children go to school for an afternoon, to experience what it was like in the nineteenth century. They travel there from schools in Eden Prairie. The HPC would have to work with the school district on this concept. She was sure teachers would make use of the opportunity to bring their students. There are lots of things kids could do both inside and outside the house. HERITAGE PRESERVATION MINUTES May 15, 2000 Page 6 Gertz said he is in the process of preparing a draft of recommendations. The Commission has already decided on rehabilitation of the houses,rather than just preservation or total reconstruction. That allows for adaptive uses and multi-uses of the sites. The Riley-Jacques site will have recreational uses. The Cummins- Grill property will have more multi-uses. It can be developed as a teaching lab to learn local history, with the aid of the Parks and Recreation Services. The More house would probably have a commercial use, such as an antique shop. Peterson- Benike asked if the HPC could recommend that use of the More house. Gertz said the City wants to keep it as open to the public as possible. A commercial use would allow access to the public. Each use is also affected by the building code, and meeting that code affects the cost of rehabilitation. Peterson-Benike said if the More house were leased, the people leasing it would have to be able to afford to pay for rehabilitation according to the building code. An antique shop may not be able to do this. However a law office, for instance, would have the funds to maintain the exterior. The interior would be changed no matter what use it is leased for,but the exterior appearance would have to remain the same. Gertz said if the City maintains ownership, it can insist that certain features remain intact. If it were sold,restrictive covenants could be put in place. Leasing is a better option than selling. Wroblewski asked Gertz if the HPC would be turned down if it asked for total renovation of all three houses at this time. Gertz replied that probably it is not realistic to have all three houses brought up to a high standard within a year. Peterson-Benike said the other challenge is programming uses on a continuing basis. Gertz replied he believed they could program uses about 40 percent of the time. That would mean the subsidy level from the City would be 60 percent. The City doesn't expect 100 percent recovery of the costs. Peterson-Benike thought educational programs in the Cummins house would probably be subsidized to a certain extent. The More house needs some emergency repair work, but it could be "moth- balled" and allowed to stay as it is. However, it would be better to have someone in the house using it. Wroblewski asked how bad the house is. Gertz said there is some significant structural work that needs to be done. The basement joists are rotting; new ones would have to be installed next to the old ones. Gertz said the More house would first have to be rezoned from rural to commercial, then the top priority would be to provide a use that would allow public access. If we can't get that, we would lease the house to a business. There is limited parking available. With a long-term lease, the City would expect the house to be restored by whoever leases it. The HPC could limit the number of alterations done on the interior. If it were sold, the HPC would still be involved in preserving the exterior and issuing alteration permits. Gertz said the HPC needs to ask for the funds to get the houses up to a good minimum standard now and hope the City will approve funds to make them better HERITAGE PRESERVATION MINUTES May 15, 2000 Page 7 in the future. Part of the HPC argument is that it can't really program these sites and make them viable unless they are brought up to standard. Peterson-Benike said the HPC could go on the record that it supports preservation of all these sites. Gertz said he plans to list a number of assumptions. One is that the City recognizes these as historic sites and that preservation is needed. Future residents will likely want to know more about the past, not less. Demographics in the City have changed and activities people are interested in have also changed. People are likely to be interested in the types of activities that could be provided at these historic sites. Gertz said his recommendations are going to be the highest level of preservation of the sites and the highest level of use in relation to how it would impact the sites. He will list the costs to accomplish this. In addition,he wants to list maintenance costs for such things as lawn care and house cleaning, and to have a maintenance budget for unplanned expenses. Mosman asked if Gertz was going to include a comparison with other communities and list any that have two or three historic sites. Gertz said Brooklyn Park would probably be the one he would use for comparison. Mosman asked if a show of public support would be helpful at meetings or through letters and phone calls. Gertz said the best time for them to show support would be at the City Council meeting when the recommendations are presented. Barkley wondered about corporate sponsorship for rehabilitation of the houses. There are a lot of companies in Eden Prairie that could be asked. Peterson-Benike said that right now the HPC wouldn't know how much to ask for. Barkley said the Commission could go to them after a plan is put in place. Offer to put up a plaque at the City Center, showing how much they have given. Gertz said right now the City just wants recommendations on what the HPC wants to do with these historic sites and the costs to bring them up to standard. Then the Commission can look at corporate help or ask for commercial development. Gertz asked Mosman if the Historical Society has indicated they would want to move to the More house. Mosman said they are supportive of the idea. They would have educational programs that are more child-oriented. Gertz said he would finish up his work on the recommendations. At the June 19 meeting of the HPC there would not be time to make revisions before the Program Board meets on June 27, so Gertz said he would mail out the recommendations for comments from the commissioners prior to the June HPC meeting. A motion would be needed at the June meeting that the HPC supports the recommendations. No one represents the HPC on the Program Board, Gertz said,but it is made up of people who have a variety of interests. HERITAGE PRESERVATION MINUTES May 15, 2000 Page 8 VII. NEW BUSINESS Review and Discussion of the SHPO Draft—Working Together: A Preservation Plan for Minnesota's Historic Properties 2000-2005 Gertz asked the commissioners to review this draft. The SHPO is asking people to comment on it. Gertz said to let him know if they have comments and he would be happy to send them in. VIII. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Barkley moved, seconded by Peterson-Benike, to adjourn the meeting. Chair Mosman adjourned the meeting at 9:35 p.m.