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Heritage Preservation - 05/20/2002 APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MONDAY, MAY 20, 2002 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER Prairie Rooms A & B 8080 Mitchell Road COMMISSION MEMBERS: Lori Peterson-Benike, Chairperson; Betsy Adams, Deborah Barkley,Jennie Brown, Elise Kist, Kati Simons,Art Weeks COMMISSION STAFF: John Gertz, Historic Preservation Specialist Peggy Rasmussen, Recorder STUDEN REPRESENTATIVES: Jane Field, Timothy Roth, Ross Viland I. ROLL CALL Peterson-Benike called the meeting to order at 7:07 p.m. Commissioner Barkley was absent. Commissioner Brown had an excused absence. Student Representatives Roth and Viland were absent. Commissioner Simons came at 7:12 p.m. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA MOTION: Adams moved, seconded by Weeks, to approve the agenda as published. Motion carried 4-0. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A correction was made on page 5, under B., bullet 4, which should read "The wood arbor will be removed . . ." MOTION: Kist moved, seconded by Adams, to approve the minutes of the Heritage Preservation Commission meeting held on April 15, 2002. Motion carried 3-0-1, with Commissioner Weeks abstaining due to his absence. IV. REPORTS OF COMMISSION AND STAFF Minnesota Barn Preservation Workshop Peterson-Benike reported on attending the workshop, which was held on April 20 at a farmstead near Waseca. The program was organized by Farmamerica and was sponsored by SHPO. Tom Woodford, from Woodford Brothers, spoke at the workshop. He encourages clients to get material locally and to use local contractors. He had examples of Minnesota barn restoration, including the Dammon barn in Red Wing that has been restored and adapted to a new use. There is a Web site for the National Barn Preservation Program: www.barnagain.org. As the City begins work on the barn at the Riley-Jacques farm, information on this Web site will be useful. HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES May 20, 2002 Page 2 V. OLD BUSINESS A. Smith-Douglas-More House Gertz said the HPC was being asked to review and approve the site plan that evening. The following changes to the plan were reviewed: Bedroom Wall Gertz said they have determined that the bedroom wall was original to the house, and therefore should be left in place. Previously it had been assumed that the wall was added by Earl More. That fact changes the plans for location of the vestibule and its size. An opening will be made in the bedroom wall to allow traffic to go through. Bifold door will occupy space to the left of the opening. Double doors will be put back where they used to hang. Wine Bar Molly Gilbertson was unable to attend the meeting, but told Gertz that Dunn Brothers will have a license to serve wine. The wine bar will be in the area between the house and addition. That moves the retail items into the addition. The location of the service counter will be changed also Walk-in Cooler A walk-in cooler will be located in the preparation area in front of a where a window is shown on the plans. Gertz said the window could be kept in place or it could be taken out. He asked the HPC to decide. Peterson-Benike said she would be in favor of keeping the window in the plan because, from the outside, the appearance of the addition would look better architecturally. Weeks said, because of the length of Dunn Brothers' lease, which is expected to be 15 years, he would be in favor of removing the window from the plan. He didn't think it would look right being covered over. Kist said the HPC should not just think about how it would look now, but how it will look in the future, if the tenants leave. Simons believed the window would not be serving a function and it would be all right to leave it out. Adams was in favor of removing it from the plan because it might look worse being covered over than not having the window. MOTION: Adams moved, seconded by Weeks, to remove the window in the preparation area from the plans being reviewed on May 20, 2002. Motion carried 5-0. Fireplace Gertz said Molly Gilbertson wanted the HPC to discuss the possibility of having a fireplace. At the last HPC meeting she showed a plan that had a fireplace at the east end of the dining area. It would be framed from floor to ceiling, standing away from the wall. No existing material would be removed. Gertz asked the HPC to discuss if it should be a heating stove instead. Gilbertson believes a fireplace would be of more interest to the clientele, and Dunn Brothers would HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES May 20, 2002 Page 3 prefer it. It would be the focal point of the room. However, Gertz said that would not be the type that would have been used in this house. Adams asked if both types were not used about the same period, as the Cummins Grill House has a similar fireplace to the one proposed. Gertz said a fireplace was built in that house, but a fireplace never existed in the More House. It would have had a pot- bellied stove. Weeks said it would be difficult for the commissioners to decide until they know more of what Gilbertson has in mind. He couldn't picture upholstered chairs next to a pot-bellied stove. Adams thought a pot-bellied stove would seem more like back-room space. A fireplace attracts people. Simons said if a fireplace was not in that house and would not have been there, she would have difficulty deciding to put it in the house. Gertz said originally a stove was probably there because that was the kitchen; however that is not what has to go back in. There probably was a heating stove afterward. Weeks said he was surprised Dunn Brothers was allowing them to make the decision about what to put there. Gertz said they want the HPC to establish a direction and have a philosophical discussion regarding the restoration approach. MacDonald & Mack told him this restoration was beginning to stray quite a bit from the way the house used to look, taking artistic license. Weeks pointed out they have to consider that the success of this endeavor will depend on drawing customers to the house, and it has to have a comfortable environment. He would not enforce strict conformity with pre-existing conditions of the house if that would be creating an awkward or uncomfortable environment. However, he would like historic accuracy pushed as far as possible. He wanted to see drawings and the scale of the fireplace before making a decision. Peterson- Benike said the rest of the commissioners did see some of that at the last meeting. She didn't think they should assume the room would be unattractive without a fireplace,because Gilbertson plans to have historic photographs on the walls, etc. Kist asked if it would be necessary to use an old pot-bellied stove or if they could use a new one, and if it would have to be functional. Weeks said the reproductions look pretty authentic. He would favor a stove-type solution rather than a fireplace. However, if Dunn Brothers are set on having a comfortable seating area, they would want a fireplace. Peterson-Benike pointed out it wouldn't look authentic to have comfortable furniture around a pot-bellied stove. Adams said she didn't think they should go as far as not having a warm centerpiece in the room. Dunn Brothers would probably have a problem accepting the decision if the HPC took away both a fireplace and a heating stove. She would like to see if Gilbertson could find a pot-bellied stove and furnishings that fit around it. Gertz suggested that perhaps Gilbertson could put in a cooking stove and have a harvest table in the room. Peterson-Benike agreed that if the stove were placed over to the side of the room it would look all right. HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES May 20, 2002 Page 4 Gertz said the HPC should not go beyond its responsibility. A fireplace is a concern as to how it affects the overall fabric of the house. Peterson-Benike said the HPC can make a statement about that. A fireplace would be an element that is not original to the house,but it can be done. Rain Garden Gertz stated that a rain garden was added to the plan. Rain gardens are a new idea for Eden Prairie, and the City Engineers suggested this would be a good place to put one in. A rain garden would serve as a filter for water run-off diverted from the parking lot. It takes about three years of intensive care to get the plants established. This will be the City's responsibility under Leslie Stovring. Landscapes Gertz has met with the landscape architect. They discussed protecting the root system of the grapevine that covers the arbor. This vine is about 100 years old. As many existing trees as possible will be preserved, but one large tree will be lost because of sewer work. The City forester will be asked to look at a large ash tree in the center of lawn because there are many ants in it. Commissioners received a list of proposed plantings for the property. Dunn Brothers prefers to light the outdoor sign only from below. The parking area has been widened to meet City code. The septic system will be filled and abandoned. A sewer line will be run from the house and connected to the City's system. Weeks said he would like to know about the plans for lighting in the patio seating area. Gertz said he would discuss that with the architects. If the Dunn Brothers lot were full, Weeks thought it likely people would park in the funeral home parking lot and walking across the lawn. Gertz said David Lindahl talked to the director of the funeral home and he asked about having a link between the two parking lots so people won't walk on the lawn. MOTION: Adams moved, seconded by Simons, to approve the site plan of MacDonald & Mack Architects Ltd. and Close Associates Inc., for the Smith- Douglas-More House, as presented on May 20, 2002, pending discussion on the patio seating area lighting and a pedestrian connection to the Huber Funeral Home parking lot. Motion carried 5-0. Simons was excused at 8:30 p.m. from the meeting. B. Dorenkemper House and Riley-Jacques Site Alteration Permit Gertz reported that at its May 21 meeting the City Council will review the recommendation from the HPC to approve the Riley-Jacques farm Heritage Preservation Site Alteration Permit. When that is done, Gertz said he would be in touch with Dan Herbst, who will then move the house to the selected site and do the log-restoration work that he hopes will be done by this fall. Gertz said he HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES May 20, 2002 Page 5 would meet with the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission again to discuss use of the property. Adams recommended forming a small group from the HPC, the Parks Commission, and the Historical Society to develop ideas for a comprehensive plan for the entire Riley-Jacques property. Peterson-Benike said determining the use of the property is the main item now under consideration, and then programming will follow once that is determined. Because of its historic value, the HPC has the final authority to determine its use. Gertz said the Parks Commission has the responsibility to establish programming and would expect the HPC to give them programming ideas. VI. NEW BUSINESS A. City Code Amendment to Include Conditional Use Permits for Historic Properties Gertz said the City looked at different ways of changing the More House to a commercial use. It was decided to change the City Code and allow Conditional Use Permits to be used so the City can control the use and, in terms of historic property, what happens to it. The HPC would automatically be included in the review of any Conditional Use Permits affecting designated historic property. This impacts what the HPC does with regard to those properties and also impacts the owners of those properties. The amendment to the City Code was reviewed by the Planning Board at a meeting that Gertz and the City Attorney attended. Gertz said the City Council would be asked to approve it on May 21. The HPC reviewed copies of the Conditional Use Permit (CUP). Kist asked for the difference between a three-year CUP and Dunn Brothers' 15-year lease. Gertz replied the CUP simply allows Dunn Brothers to use the property in a certain way, and they would have to reapply every three years for a CUP. However, this will be changed to five years by the City Council. Kist asked if there should be differences of opinion between the City and those reapplying, could the City refuse to grant them a CUP after five years? Gertz said that if they were in violation of conditions under which the permit was originally issued, the City could decide not to reissue the permit. That is the control the City wants to have. Kist wondered if this could be a hindrance to property owners. Gertz said no, because it allows the owner of a historic property to do something different for their property outside of zoning restrictions. This could be a tool for preservation of historic buildings. Peterson-Benike said there would be the opportunity at the May 21 meeting of the Council for neighbors of the Smith House to object to issuing the CUP. Weeks noted that the section in the amendment under B. 1. Historic Properties infers all historic properties are old, because applicants must demonstrate a need for the CUP based on its age. Weeks said there could be newer properties designated as historic that wouldn't need a lot of restoration. Gertz replied there HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES May 20, 2002 Page 6 has to be a designated need to preserve the building because of its historic characteristics. They don't want anyone with an old building that is not historic to apply for a CUP under this section. People might say they couldn't maintain a property unless they put it to a different use. They have to say there is an economic need to get a CUP. Peterson-Benike said this amendment is well written. It is both specific enough and general enough to cover whatever circumstance may come up about historic properties. Gertz said when he was talking with the City Attorney about this amendment, the question of amending the Historic Properties portion of the City Code was discussed. Without an amendment, if the owner of a historic property wants to make some minor changes on the property, the City would have to send him or her through the whole review process to get approval to make any changes. Staff didn't believe the City Council would want to have a public hearing to approve minor work. Major work would be something that modifies or alters the appearance of the whole property. Minor changes could be brought to the HPC for review and approval instead. Also, there is no means provided to de-list a designated historic property. Gertz said he would bring this information to the June meeting of the HPC. B. National Alliance of Preservation Commissions (NAPCO) Forum Scholarships, San Antonio, Texas on August 1-4, 2002 Information about this forum was distributed to the commissioners. Peterson- Benike said there is a forum every two years. SHPO has some full scholarships available. As a representative of the HPC, she planned to apply for one. If other commissioners were interested in applying, she needed to know by the end of the week. After attending the forum on a scholarship, they would be expected to write up a report that will be given to those who attend the Historic Preservation Conference in September. Gertz said that, although he has never been to one of the forums, he has been told by others who have that there is nothing better for HPC training. C. Riley-Jacques Barn Rehabilitation Planning Gertz said some work has to be done on the barn's exterior. He will use some of the funding available to develop a plan and work with an architect who knows how to rehabilitate historic buildings. Gertz thought it would be a good idea to have a small group brainstorm for ideas on how to use the barn. He asked for suggestions on who should be in this group. It was decided that the task force should include members of the HPC and Historical Society, representatives from the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission, the present director of the community theater, and someone from the school district. Peterson-Benike, Adams and Kist expressed interest in representing the HPC. HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES May 20, 2002 Page 7 Peterson-Benike said she would contact the Historical Society and find out if anyone is interested in serving on this task force. Kist said she would ask school district coordinators to suggest people who would be interested. At the first meeting they should determine what the function of the group would be. The brainstorming sessions will be held before bringing in the architect. VII. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Adams moved, seconded by Kist, to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried 4-0. Peterson-Benike adjourned the meeting at 9:35 p.m.