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Heritage Preservation - 02/11/2002 APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MONDAY, FEBRUARY 11, 2002 7:00 P.M. CITY CENTER Heritage Room IV 8080 Mitchell Road COMMISSION MEMBERS: Lori Peterson-Benike, Chairperson; Betsy Adams, Deborah Barkley,Jennie Brown, Kati Simons,Art Weeks, Mike Wroblewski COMMISSION STAFF: John Gertz, Historic Preservation Specialist Peggy Rasmussen, Recorder STUDEN REPRESENTATIVES: Jane Field, Timothy Roth, Ross Viland I. ROLL CALL Peterson-Benike called the meeting to order at 7:07 p.m. Commissioner Wroblewski was excused. Commissioner Weeks arrived at 7:15 p.m. Also attending the meeting were Bob Mack, Architect with MacDonald and Mack Architects; Molly Gilbertson, Interior Design student at the University of Minnesota; and David Lindahl, Eden Prairie's Housing and Redevelopment Authority Manager. Peterson-Benike invited Bob Mack to make his presentation at the beginning of the meeting. II. NEW BUSINESS A. Preliminary Plans for the Smith-Douglas-More House; MacDonald and Mack Architects, Ltd. Bob Mack described the options for converting the house for use by Dunn Brothers Coffee. The entrance driveway would continue to be off Eden Prairie Road, and the parking area approximately where it is now. There are potential areas for outdoor seating at the front and side doors. It appears the addition on the back of the house has been there since the 1880s, and its physical condition is very poor. The focus needs to be on preserving the original house as much as possible. A new addition should be built, which would be screened from the north by plantings, and from the south by the house itself. The connection with the house would be in the same location it is now. The main entrance would be in the new addition. The first floor plan in Scheme A has a total area of 1080 square feet in the new addition, and seating for approximately 50 persons in the original section of the house. All of Dunn Brothers equipment would be included on the first floor. The bathrooms would be located at the east end of the addition. The gabled roofs would help to make the addition less obvious from the road. HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES February 11, 2001 Page 2 Scheme B has a total of 750 square feet in the new addition. There would be seating for approximately 36 people. Some of the service equipment would have to be located in the basement, which is under the brick portion of the house. The bathrooms would be at the east end of the addition. Scheme C has a total area in the new addition of 930 square feet. There would be seating for 32 people. All Dunn Brothers equipment would be included on the main floor. The bathrooms would be located in the area that is now the dining room and the section that connects with the addition. Mack said, from a business point of view, Dunn Brothers would prefer Scheme A because it is the largest. Weeks asked if Dunn Brothers has done a survey to see how much traffic would be coming from the parking lot versus pedestrian traffic from the street. Lindahl replied no, but they received traffic counts from the City. Weeks said he would like to see how the side where the entrance is located ties together with the parking area. If there is a belief that more pedestrian traffic will be coming from the parking lot than from the street, more landscaping could be done along that side to set off the existing house. Mack said, regardless of where the majority of pedestrians come from, the main entrance has to be through the addition, because it is the only one that meets ADA standards. The architects also wanted to make it clear where customers are to come in, and that can be done through landscaping also. The current location for parking seems to be the best. In future, additional parking could be accommodated at the back of the addition. Weeks said he believed proper landscaping could set off the disparity between the addition and the existing house. Mack said there is a vine growing on the trellis now. In photos you can't see the addition, because not only is there a large tree but also the large vine on the trellis. The road is lower than the house, and the photos show that the vines obscure the view of the addition from the street when approaching it from the south. Adams said liked the idea of Scheme A because it has the largest seating capacity, and the fact that all the seating is in the house portion and all the business operations are in the new addition. Scheme B places most of the seating in the front of the house and basically wastes the second room, and Scheme C has the two bathrooms in the old part of the building. She asked how many parking spaces there would be. Mack replied there would be 20 spaces. Adams asked if Dunn Brothers thought 20 spaces would be enough for 50 seats. Lindahl replied he believed more parking would be needed. Simons said she didn't like having bathrooms so far from the seating, as shown in Schemes A and B. Customers would have to pass back and forth between the people coming into the building. Mack replied that they could put the bathrooms on the north side of the new addition. Peterson-Benike asked if it was necessary to have two bathrooms. Mack said separate men's and women's bathrooms are HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES February 11, 2001 Page 3 mandated. In fact, if there were seating for more than 50 people, they would be required to have a third bathroom. Lindahl said the space marked seating/display in the service area might be used for a display of baked goods if Dunn Brothers decides to have pastries. They told him they think they will need a 1080 square foot area for the service area. Dunn Brothers wants the HPC to give them direction on how it wants them to proceed and how to accomplish that. Weeks said he liked Scheme A, and liked having the entrance separate from the rest of the house. Putting the bathrooms in the back of the addition would allow Dunn Brothers to monitor them as well as keeping them close to the seating area. Weeks wondered if the new addition would fit into the historical context of the house or if it would look too commercial. He also believed it was important to know what the HPC wants regarding signage. Lindahl replied that the lease the City has drawn up refers to the City code on signage. Dunn Brothers understands the signs should be tasteful, and the City code would limit the number and size of signs. Gertz said the signs would be reviewed by the HPC. Weeks questioned the appearance of the entrance. Mack said they had looked at a variety of entrances and they believed the one shown on the plan would fit in with a farmhouse. The architects discussed different roof lines and it seemed that a combination of different types would be best. The roof over the entrance door was changed to a gable roof so patrons would be protected from rain, and it would look more inviting than a shed-type roof. Weeks inquired what the architects were trying to achieve with the type of window they show on the plan for the addition. Mack replied the windows shown are not double-hung. A couple of them are sliders, so that would make them like the current addition. Simons said Scheme B has some use being made of the basement for storage of equipment. She asked if anything will happen to the basement if that scheme is not used. Mack said, regardless of which scheme is used, the plan would be to take up the brick floor and put in a new concrete floor, re-point the stone walls and remove the small storage room. There would be new mechanical systems and a new electrical box. The furnace would have to be replaced. The City wants drywall placed on the underside of the joists for fire protection. The code does not require a sprinkler system. Lindahl said a sprinkler system is expensive and not needed for the seating capacity of this house. Gertz replied that a sprinkler system was included in the budget for all three historic houses. Mack said, for the Alexander Ramsey house it was decided the basement should be sprinkled because that is where a fire might start. He suggested sprinkling the new addition and not the house. Peterson-Benike asked about the vestibule inside the front door. Mack said there was previously a vestibule, and it is proposed to create a vestibule similar to what was there. The pattern on the floor indicates there was once a formal parlor and a HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES February 11, 2001 Page 4 less-formal parlor,joined by a pocket door. The plan shows this and also creates a smaller area where people could take over one of the rooms for a meeting, etc. The small bedroom that is there now is too small for more than six people. Lindahl said the addition would almost be the same size as the main structure. He asked if there are guidelines for types of exterior, windows, etc., when the size of the addition is greatly increased over what is there now. He inquired if the addition would be matched to the house or would something else be considered. Gertz replied sometimes what is there now determines what should be done on a new addition. The drawing makes the addition look larger than it will be. Mack said the roof would only be about two feet higher than the present addition. A shed roof could be used on the back side rather than a gable roof. Adams asked what materials would be used for the addition. Mack said it could be wood or some kind of synthetic, composite material that looks like wood, which would have less maintenance. Another choice is a product of reinforced cement that would allow for a slightly higher fire rating because it is non- combustible. Gertz said it wouldn't matter that much if it was a composite material, but he would want to see it before making a decision. Mack said it comes in many colors, and could be matched to the color of the house. He would bring that to an HPC meeting and have the commissioners talk about it. Regarding the trim, historically, "gingerbread" trim was only on the front porch. What is on the house now has probably been there for 30 years and was installed by Earl More. If the HPC wants it to return to its historic appearance, then the gingerbread would stay on the front but not on the side porch. Regarding gutters, the photos from the 1880s show a gutter going straight across a dormer and down the side of the house, probably into a cistern. It would be historically correct to put those back on. On the other hand, gutters can hold snow and contribute to ice dams; however, something needs to be done about rainwater. Water coming off the gables and dormers should be controlled. Brown asked Mack if it affects the value of a historic piece of property when an addition is put on it. Mack replied that it depends. Appraisers have a difficult time determining value based entirely on historic designation. In some ways that historic designation would decrease the value because it restricts what the owner can do to the property. If the house were in a historic district, that would increase the value. As far as additions go, it probably would relate strictly to the function of that building as opposed to whether it enhances or distracts from the building. Mack asked if the three stained-glass windows in the bay window are ones the former owner made and set in there. He was told they were. Mack said there is an opinion that if the HPC wanted the house returned to its turn-of-the-century appearance, those would have to come out. If the HPC wants to say that they came with the house, then leave them in. Adams said she would like to see the double-hung windows in the house remain functional because sealing them up would make the building seem more institutional. Peterson-Benike said, because of the commercial use of the house, they might be kept closed to reduce dust. HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES February 11, 2001 Page 5 Gertz said the treatment approach for the house is rehabilitation, so they are trying to go back and establish a date of historic significance. With regard to the stained-glass windows, people have been attracted to those windows for years, so if there is no compelling reason to remove them, he would like to keep them. They will need to be practical about controlling water from the roof, and they need to be flexible. Rehabilitation gives the HPC the maximum amount of flexibility. He asked Mack to write down some ideas for the HPC to think about, such as shutters, window styles, etc. Brown asked if ceiling height was a concern. Mack said the ceilings in the house part are 81/z - to 9 feet high. In the present kitchen area the ceiling is only about 71/z feet. Near the edge of the room, because of the roof line, it drops down to 6i/z feet. In the new addition, the ceiling height could go up. Gertz said he liked that idea of having the height in the addition the same height as the house. Adams agreed a consistent height would be better. Weeks asked if Dunn Brothers anticipates outdoor dining. Lindahl replied that would be coming in a later phase. Weeks said it would be a good idea for the HPC to look at the trellis and entrance so they can see how the entryway is placed in relation to the location of the trellis. He could see the outdoor dining portion being a key element to that side of the house and the importance of having it located properly. He would like to see the landscaping and the addition more in the context of an old farm site. He did not like the entrance as depicted on the drawing, because it competes too much with the house. However he liked Scheme A in terms of the other elements. Weeks said the scale of the proposed addition is considerably different from the house. He was thinking in terms of the farm concept and ancillary buildings being subordinate to the main building. However, he realized the addition has to be functional. Now it looks like a new structure next to an old structure. He thought that perhaps the HPC needed more detail in terms of how the windows and door will look. He believed what was missing is an assessment of how customers will react when they approach the entrance; whether it has the feel of coming into a farmhouse. Sometimes the details are as important as the bigger picture to make it work. Adams said when additions were made to the back of old houses, they looked brand new when they were put on. She was not concerned with marrying this addition to the structure because they have different functions, and if they are defined architecturally as different functions they will look right. She believed landscaping would be the key. She also believed Dunn Brothers would want the entrance to be welcoming to attract people to it. Flowers, walkways, etc. would have to be consistent with a farmhouse, but the entrance will become the focal point. Adams said she was concerned about being able to open the windows in the house. Gertz said they are double hung, two over two. Adams would like the windows in the addition to be the same type. Mack said there would not be room for bigger windows in the addition because of the relatively low roof line. HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES February 11, 2001 Page 6 Lindahl said practical issues, such as being able to open the windows, should be decided by Dunn Brothers. They may have the desire to keep them closed. Weeks said the trellis is the demarcation between the old house and the addition. It sets off the entry. Mack said, as an example, if the trellis were in the area to separate the old building and the new addition, they could potentially use it to outline the western edge of the house and to bring people to the entrance in the addition. Weeks said it could be the element that mitigates the scale of both buildings. It could be treated as a landscape element. Gertz said the HPC could do what they want with the trellis. Earl More put it up, and it has been completely replaced by the City. Gertz said, with regard to Scheme A, it would have the minimum space requirement to accommodate Taste of Scandinavia's pastry area. Mack said he asked Dunn Brothers what would be their ideal kitchen. They set the minimum requirements for the building. In other locations, some of their equipment is in the basement and some on the main floor. If they were going to be using the lower level, the stairway would have to be rebuilt. Peterson-Benike said she believed Dunn Brothers would rather have it all on the main level. Lindahl said Dunn Brothers will be leasing the upper level for storage and other leasable space. They didn't discuss the basement being leasable space. If Dunn Brothers wants to use the basement, they would have to put that in the lease agreement. Weeks asked about use of the side door for an entryway. Mack said it does not meet ADA standards. For secondary egress, the front door would be used. Use of the side door would be totally optional, but it would swing outward so people can go out that way. Peterson-Benike asked if the door between the new and old sections has to be altered. Mack replied no; they would fix it in place and leave it open. The doorway is wide enough. The door at the bottom of the stairs would be kept open. Adams asked if the City is responsible for the landscaping. Lindahl said the City expects Dunn Brothers to pay for landscaping but the City would review whatever plantings they select. Dunn Brothers is responsible for mowing, but that could change. They may ask the City to continue to mow, so there is some flexibility. Mack said what the City is being asked to provide is a warm-lit shell and Dunn Brothers have to come back to the HPC regarding interior decorating and what they might choose to do regarding parking, the entrance and the trellis. Lindahl asked if the timing has been discussed. Gertz said the schedule calls for design development from January 28 to April 1, working drawings available for bids in mid-April, Council approval May 16, and warm-lit shell work to be done by September 31. Dunn Brothers would have October and November to finish HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES February 11, 2001 Page 7 their work. Lindahl said Dunn Brothers indicated if they couldn't get in by November they would wait until February. Gertz said when the plans are completed they will come back to the HPC for approval and then will go through the site-alteration permit process. Mack said he would like to meet with at least a portion of the HPC in the next two weeks to review the items that needed further discussion. He would then prepare a new version of the floor plan and present it at the March meeting of the HPC. In order to meet the mid-April bid date, detail plans would have to be started by March 1. Molly Gilbertson, an Interior Design student at the University of Minnesota, graduating this spring, said she is working on her thesis this semester, part of which is to do a design plan for the Smith House. She needs to have it done by the end of the semester in May. This would be done through computer graphics. Mack summarized what he understood the HPC wanted him to do. There was consensus on using Scheme A. That includes having all equipment on one floor. He will re-examine how to move the bathrooms to the north side of the house, and would look at putting a shed roof over them rather a gable roof. That might change the square footage in the addition. Gertz asked if the basement windows should be opened up or bricked in again. Mack said the advantages of opening them up would be to let more natural light into the basement and to return them to their historic appearance. The disadvantages would be higher maintenance cost and a possible security risk. The cost of putting in one new window and sash would be $500, plus additional brick work, for a total of $3,000 per opening. They may want to use one of the back windows for fresh-air input and another for combustion for the furnace. There will not be an underground excavation for the addition. It will be built on a concrete slab. Heating and cooling would probably be done from above. Gertz said the bathroom fixtures would be removed from the bathroom in the old part of the home. Removing the inside wall of the bathroom would be a significant change to the interior of the home, but it was justified by gaining additional space for the patrons. Peterson-Benike thanked Bob Mack for coming and said she would contact him to set up another meeting with the commissioners in about two weeks. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Peterson-Benike added Item C. ADA Traininz, and Item D. Set Meetiniz with Bob Mack, under New Business. MOTION: Adams moved, seconded by Barkley, to approve the Agenda as published and amended. Motion carried 6-0. HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES February 11, 2001 Page 8 III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES —JANUARY 14, 2002 Because the minutes were not mailed out to the commissioners, they were not approved. They will be approved at the March meeting. IV. REPORTS OF COMMISSION AND STAFF Peterson-Benike gave a report to the City Council at its February 4 meeting on the activities of the HPC in 2001 and anticipated activities in 2002. She thanked the Council for its support. V. OLD BUSINESS A. Review of Local Designation Sites Gertz reviewed the "Finding of Significance" forms for Staring Lake Outdoor Center, the Consolidated School, the Harry Picha Farm and the River Narrows. These comprise Group One, the first group the HPC will work on to obtain Local Designation status. The "Finding of Significance" forms for the Consolidated School and Staring Lake Outdoor Center were sent to the City Council in June 1998 FYI. Submitting these forms to the Council shows the HPC plans to proceed with the designation process. The "Finding of Significance" forms for the Harry Picha Farm and the River Narrows need to be completed, signed, and sent to the City Council. The forms show the property was surveyed and a determination made that they are historically significant and should be designated. They have to meet at least one of the criteria listed. That information should be reviewed by the HPC. Each site receives a number from the SHPO. Adams asked what responsibility the City and HPC would have after these sites are designated. Gertz said the City and HPC would not be required to spend any money on them. Their responsibility would primarily be oversight and monitoring of the sites, which mostly falls on the City staff. However, the HPC has an oversight role, as well as providing technical support and information to the property owners. If the owners want to change the shingles on the roof, they would expect to get technical information from the HPC. That means the HPC would be doing locally what the SHPO does statewide. MOTION: Brown moved, seconded by Adams, to send the "Finding of Significance" forms on the Harry Picha Farm and The Narrows to the City Council. Motion carried 6-0. MOTION: Weeks moved, seconded by Barkley, to approve, as a priority, Group One for designation, and to ask the City Council for approval, as referenced in the memo prepared by John Gertz, dated January 18, 2002. Motion carried 6-0. B. Dorenkemper Loy House HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES February 11, 2001 Page 9 Gertz distributed a photograph of the Dorenkemper log house. He met with Matt Edmonds, Peter Edmonds son, to evaluate the logs and determine that the building is restorable. They noted a number of logs were decayed and need to be replaced, but overall, it would be worth restoring. It is sound enough to move in one piece. Gertz relayed that information to Dan Herbst. Gertz talked to Herbst about removing the porches, which are too modern, so he will remove ones on the north, south and northwest corner of the house. They will retain the summer kitchen and move that separately. Herbst is arranging for a house mover, but as of yet has not determined where it will be moved. He has 30 days to move it so the builder can proceed to work on the property where it is standing. Sever Peterson offered to allow the house to be stored on his property. Herbst is still considering "Hennepin Village", his newest development, as a location to move it. He is also considering property he owns in Chanhassen. Gertz said it would be possible to put the house on the Riley-Jacques farm,but the only way that could work would be if Herbst agreed to restore it on site and work with the Historical Society to provide care for the building, so there is no cost to the City. Peterson-Benike said the Historical Society is interested in programming the house after it is restored. C. Minnesota Archaeology Week April 27-May 5 Gertz said this is another annual event in which the HPC has participated in the past. It is another educational program they could get involved in. It concludes one week before National Historic Preservation Week, which is May 12-18. Gertz asked anybody who is interested in doing any of these educational programs to let him know. The State Historical Society sends out information. Peterson-Benike said Adams and Brown are on the Preservation Week Committee with her and will have another meeting to work on plans. VI. New Business B. Cummins-Grill House Interior Improvements Gertz said he had a call from Jamie Smith, an Interior Design student at the University of Minnesota, graduating this spring. She decided not to do an interior use plan for the Cummins-Grill House for her thesis because it didn't offer her enough work as a student to make it worthwhile. Gertz thanked her for her interest. C. ADA Training Peterson-Benike said there is a self-guided ADA training manual available that was written strictly for Heritage Preservation Commissions. She suggested having a Saturday seminar to study the manual. It contains all of the information referenced by the Secretary of the Interior Standards. Another suggestion would HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MINUTES February 11, 2001 Page 10 be to meet for two hours before HPC meetings. It was agreed to do it at a Saturday seminar. Peterson-Benike said she would get more information as to where the manual could be copied or else get more copies. D. Setting Meeting with Bob Mack Peterson-Benike asked how many would be able to meet with Bob Mack in about two weeks. All those present indicated they would be interested in attending. Weeks asked if Chris Eilers should be at the meeting also. Gertz said he would find out if Bob Mack agrees with that, when he calls him to request two dates from which the HPC members could choose. VII. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Brown moved, seconded by Simons, to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried 6-0. Peterson-Benike adjourned the meeting at 9:40 p.m.