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Heritage Preservation - 11/30/2006 APPROVED MINUTES SPECIAL MEETING EDEN PRAIRIE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION THURSDAY,NOVEMBER 30, 2006 7:00 P.M. Prairie Rooms A & B 8080 Mitchell Road COMMISSION MEMBERS Betsy Adams, Chairperson; Nina Mackay, Vice Chairperson; Richard Akerlund, Bob Amell,Ann Higgins, Ed Muehlberg, Jane Plaza COMMISSION STAFF John Gertz, Historic Preservation Specialist; Peggy Rasmussen, Recorder I. ROLL CALL Adams called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Commissioners Amell and Plaza were excused. II. REVIEW OF PROPOSALS The purpose of the meeting was to review proposals submitted by Robert Vogel of Pathfinder CRM and Thomas Zahn of Miller-Dunwiddie Associates, and to select one of them to conduct a reuse study for the J.R. Cummins Homestead. Eden Prairie obtained a CLG grant to pay for the study. Gertz said both Pathfinder and Miller-Dunwiddie know something about this specific house and the City's Heritage Preservation Commission because he and the Commission have worked with both of them. He said the Commissioners should make a decision based on whether each proposal meets the criteria of the RFP. Adams pointed out both firms have excellent credentials. Adams asked the Commissioners to note any questions that might clarify the differences between the two firms so those questions could be addressed. Mackay noted Robert Vogel of Pathfinder seems to have taken the questions in the RFP and answered each of them. Thomas Zahn's terminology is different, and appears to have come from a template. Both of them would probably do a good job. The Commissioners would feel comfortable staying with Vogel, but perhaps it would be good to try a different firm. Gertz said both proposals address the project and specifics of the RFP. The Commissioners are right in noting different approaches. Zahn follows closely the "Primer for Historic Properties Reuse Teams in Minnesota." Mackay asked Gertz who would be working with the consultant the most. Gertz replied the consultant will meet with teams that would include representatives from the HPC and City staff as well as people from outside the City. Gertz said he would work with the consultant throughout. He has not worked previously with Thomas Zahn but felt sure he HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING November 30, 2006 Page 2 would be able to do so. The differences get down to the details. Pathfinder talks about providing a management plan and a comprehensive reuse plan. Many reuse plans focus on issues and come up with scenarios, but coming up with a management plan is important. Gertz said his question to Vogel would be whether he is talking about doing more or adding more to the study than would be found in the historic properties reuse team approach. What is lacking in his proposal is an actual action plan and how he would go about doing that. Adams said Vogel's market analysis to assess economic impacts implies he will do a market analysis on different kinds of reuse ideas, and then compile cost estimates of those analyses. Zahn in his proposal simply states there will be an economic analysis. Included in this should be preliminary cost estimates for the reuse of the house and site. If these approaches are as different as they seem, it is apparent that the HPC needs to have as much help as possible to understand what the ramifications are of the information they receive, so they can make recommendations and be an advocate for them in approaching the City Council. Gertz replied that is a really important part of this study. Akerlund pointed out that the Cummins house is a farmhouse. Vogel was project manager for a reuse study for a farmhouse in Cottage Grove. Adams mentioned that Zahn has headed a reuse study for Fort Snelling. Muehlberg said he has been looking at the economic part of the proposals and how each has a plan to make this work. Zahn's proposal shows his firm is rigid about the fees he would charge for each aspect of the study so as not to go over the $12,000 amount of the grant. He doesn't seem to show flexibility. Gertz replied Zahn is trying to squeeze the project into the budget to show what we can expect to get for that amount. Gertz said City staff will want to know at some point if more money could be spent in one area of the study and taken from another. Zahn's proposal seems to have a formulated method of figuring the costs. Gertz said he would like more flexibility. Higgins said she felt comfortable with the way Vogel has set out alternatives to choose from after the whole project is done. Gertz said to keep in mind that when the study is done, the HPC should be able to go to the City Council to say this is the best recommendation for reuse of the house, and to give a viable option that would allow the City to eliminate spending on the house. The City doesn't want a consultant that would give a generic recommendation. Adams agreed that the Council wants a concrete recommendation from the HPC, and doesn't want a repeat of the Smith-Douglas-More House, which cost the City a great deal of money in renovations before it was leased. Akerlund said reusing the house for a Dunn Bros. Coffee was a good outcome and he would like a similar outcome for the Cummins house. Higgins said the process of rebuilding Pioneer Trail is not scheduled to start until 2008. She asked if that would affect what the Cummins site will be used for. She could not see it being developed for reuse until that roadwork is done. Gertz replied the Section 106 HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION SPECIAL MEETING November 30, 2006 Page 3 review would result in some type of mitigation. It might benefit this project if a reuse is identified that is acceptable, and it could add to that mitigation process. Adams said as possible reuse of the site is being studied, which includes putting together a scenario about parking, traffic and access, there is an opportunity now for the HPC to make its case known. It is not just one building that is involved in this project, it is the site the building is sitting on, which belongs to the City. The property is also adjacent to Pioneer Trail. All those factors enter into this reuse study. She asked if Gertz had a feeling about the scope of this project being better suited to a particular consultant. Gertz replied that both consultants are highly qualified people. He comes back to this being more of a creative process; it is a flexible, rather than a boilerplate, project. Gertz said he felt more of that in the Pathfinder proposal. The HPC might want someone more willing to be flexible in the approach that is taken, and the outcome should be more toward developing a plan that is worth pursuing rather than depending on interviews. Public input is essential to the process but it should not depend on interviews. Gertz said he wants the City to end up with an actual plan of some sort. It is not enough to just have a long sentence that ends in a recommendation. A more flexible approach that results in a plan would be best. Gertz said Pathfinder seems to fit that approach, but they would have to push Vogel to make sure that would be included in the study. Adams said one thing she liked in Zahn's proposal was his last phase, community and city presentations. She prefers having the consultant give a presentation to the City, not just sending a CD, etc. When Vogel prepared the designation forms, he included a report. In this proposal, Vogel said he would prepare a report, but said nothing about making presentations. Gertz said Vogel's budget allocates ten percent to unforeseen consultations, etc. If the project didn't go according to the budget and plan, there might not be any money left to cover unforeseen items. Work outside the scope of the budget might be requested. That is also where flexibility comes in. The verbiage to cover it would be in the contract. Pathfinder has indicated willingness to donate additional time to the project, which can be done in a CLG grant. Once he goes beyond $12,000, Vogel can submit the cost of his donated time to the City and that is billed to the City. MOTION: Mackay moved, seconded by Muehlberg, that the Heritage Preservation Commission accept the proposal of Pathfinder CRM for the reuse study for the Cummins-Grill House. Motion carried 5-0. Gertz said he would invite Vogel to the next HPC meeting in December, and will ask him to answer some questions that Gertz has. Gertz said he believes Vogel will provide more of a plan approach rather than a recommendation approach. III. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Higgins moved, seconded by Akerlund, to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried 5-0. Adams adjourned the meeting at 7:45 p.m.