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Heritage Preservation - 03/20/2006 APPROVED MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE HERITAGE PRESERVATION COMMISSION MONDAY, MARCH 20, 2006 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER Prairie Room A & B 8080 Mitchell Road COMMISSION MEMBERS: Betsy Adams, Chairperson; Molly Gilbertson, Vice Chairperson; Bob Amell, Deborah Barkley, Nina Mackay, Ed Muehlberg, Jane Plaza STUDENT MEMBERS: Danny Dunleavy, Anna Hewitt, Jennifer Nicklay GUESTS: Dick Van Sickle, Friendship Ventures Stuart Bailey, Architect Ed Stracke, Friendship Ventures Richard Akerlund, future HPC member COMMISSION STAFF: John Gertz, Historic Preservation Specialist Allison Burr, Recording Secretary I. ROLL CALL Chair Adams called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Student Members Anna Hewitt and Jennifer Nicklay were absent. Guest Dick Van Sickle joined the meeting at 7:14 p.m. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Adams noted the plan review of Glen Lake Children's Camp under New Business will precede Reports of Commission and Staff. Gilbertson noted the date on the agenda should read March 20 rather than February 27, 2006. MOTION: Mackay moved, seconded by Gilbertson, to approve the agenda as amended. Motion carried 7-0. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 27, 2006 MEETING Adams noted on page 1 of the minutes under Anderson Schoolhouse Deconstruction, the second sentence states 20 percent of material was thrown away. It is actually 80 percent of the building that was thrown away and 20 percent that was retained. MOTION: Plaza moved, seconded by Amell, to approve minutes of the Heritage Preservation Commission meeting held February 27, 2006, as corrected. Motion carried 7-0. Eden Prairie Heritage Preservation Commission March 20, 2006 Page 2 Adams introduced Richard Akerlund and indicated he is attending the meeting as a guest but will be joining the HPC next month as a member. IV. NEW BUSINESS A. PLAN REVIEW—GLEN LAKE CHILDREN'S CAMP Stuart Bailey, Architect, stated plans continue to be worked on for a projected late-April start. One of the reasons plans were requested for the HPC to review is Friendship Ventures is in the process of beginning to complete the plans and further complete the detailing of the smaller pieces of the building. Bailey indicated he is also seeking input on outstanding issues. He wishes to explain the logic and reasoning behind the project, as this is approached as a restoration on the outside and a renovation on the inside. The plans are a work in progress. Bailey asked for questions and input from the HPC. Adams asked what sorts of things still have to be done. Bailey responded one of the areas not complete is shown briefly in the plan, the foundation system. One of the guests coming is Dick Van Sickle, the structural engineer. He will address the details of the foundation so they are at a frost depth so the buildings stop moving around. There has been uneven settlement due to frost action, and the goal is to alleviate that by putting in a frost foundation. Adams stated lots of the things discussed when the HPC first met with Friendship Ventures in June of 2005 are included here. She commended their work. She noted one issue remaining is the windows. Bailey stated he met with a representative with Marvin Windows earlier today to discuss the windows. He added there have been conversations with Mark Buechel with the State Historic Preservation Office (SHPO) with respect to how to deal with the existing historical element. The condition of the windows in some places is better than others. However, in looking at it, there is single-pane glass which is fine for a two- or three-season application and is less effective for a four-season application. The question is how to maintain the historic elements and upgrade the safety. Bailey stated the proposed upgrade for the windows is as follows: they are suggesting replacement of the windows with sashes that fit within the existing openings. This would be an out-swinging awning window with screening on the inside. Dick Van Sickle joined the meeting at 7:14 p.m. Eden Prairie Heritage Preservation Commission March 20, 2006 Page 3 Bailey stated the goal is to fit the window in, and the exterior would be primed and painted as it is now, and the interior would be bare wood, as it is now. In this case the screens would be on the interior. With respect to the longevity of the building, this is the best solution. Adams asked if this solution to the windows has been proposed to SHPO. Stracke stated there were two issues when a grant was submitted, the partitions on the bedroom and the windows. Mr. Buechel seemed more concerned about partitions than the windows. He stated Mr. Buechel told him that any objection or concern has to come through the Department of Interior, and they do not understand Minnesota winters. Bailey continued the plan is to have the windows removed and saved, not discarded. There are some interior doors to be changed out as well. Adams asked if he is saying they are not planning to destroy the casing. Bailey responded that is the intent. Stracke added some of the windows are not worth saving. Plaza asked if they would be looking to change all the windows or if one could be left as an example. She stated she looked at the minutes from a meeting held last summer, and one of the comments was putting in windows not existing there now. Bailey stated at the previous meeting there was the question of possibly refurbishing existing windows in a portion of the building to show the original design and intent. That has been discussed. Also, going through the original plans, there have been some new door openings added and some other window openings were in-filled; a couple of them were covered up altogether. The proposal is to bring them back to the original 1922 blueprints. Bailey stated they are open to keeping existing windows in a couple of places. Gertz asked how Marvin Windows would attach a sash on the exterior and not alter the frames. Bailey responded Marvin Windows is going to provide him with some details based on the representative having viewed it the first time today. It appears on the existing configuration there is a screen on the exterior, and it appears the screens could be pulled off if need be. Gertz asked why the existing sash cannot be moved to the outside and screen be brought to the interior. He asked if somebody has not looked at the window. Stracke stated the position Friendship Ventures is taking is that this will be a year-round structure, and efficiency for heating is important. Eden Prairie Heritage Preservation Commission March 20, 2006 Page 4 Stracke added some of the participants at Friendship Ventures have severe behavioral issues and often strike out at some things. Part of having the screen on the inside is to protect the person should they strike out and hit the window. Akerlund suggested there are cabinet makers with Marvin Windows who can make just about anything. He suggested having some of their master craftsmen look at it. Gertz added the important thing is that some effort be made to try to reuse the windows. He understands there are safety issues,but those can be addressed. If it turns out those things are not feasible, then alternative windows become an option,but there seems to be some more work to be done. Amell stated this could be sent back and forth ad nauseum. He believes this should not be postponed any longer. Stracke stated $600,000 has been raised towards this $1 million project. Critical to the start of the project is union labor, and they are only available in April and May. If it does not start until June, then it will not happen for another year. He understands the building's integrity needs to be maintained,but the participants also need to be safe. He stated Friendship is trying to figure out a reasonable solution. Gilbertson asked if they will custom make the windows to make them look historic. Bailey responded one of the configurations for the windows is there would be insulated glazing instead of single pane glazing. One of the ways to achieve the look of a historic window is to apply the muntons to the exterior and interior of the window. Discussion continued regarding the widow possibilities. Gertz suggested the windows are not an impossible task,but a solution has not been found yet. Stracke stated this will be the only building that people live in where there is not protection between the glass and the living area. He stated the plan calls for a screen, which is the way all cabins are constructed at Camp Friendship. Gertz asked if there is a way to retrofit the historic window and put the screen in. Stracke responded it goes back to cost and efficiency. For it to be a functional entity, it really has to be year-round. Adams suggested both sides compromise. Bailey discussed further options about the windows. Eden Prairie Heritage Preservation Commission March 20, 2006 Page 5 Adams asked if it is impossible to reconstruct the windows and fit within the parameters that Friendship Ventures need. Bailey stated that may be the case. Gilbertson asked if the windows will swing out. Stracke stated that is a requirement. Adams asked what Friendship Ventures is requesting at tonight's meeting. Stracke responded that in order to keep the project moving, they will be put on the agenda for the April 18"' City Council meeting. The plan is to go to the City Council and show them the project. It does not require Council approval because it is a restoration project,but they do want to keep them informed. The problem is union labor. They need to do their work prior to the first week in June because the summer camps begin then. Then interior work will begin in the fall again. He stated Friendship does need some sort of blessing from this group because they do not want to go to the Council and have people argue about whether this is appropriate. Akerlund asked if the windows will be worked on this spring or in the fall. Stracke stated they will be a fall project. Stracke stated the Minnesota Historical Society wants to see the plans for the interior walls dividing the sleeping quarters, and he believes a resolution has been arrived at. Akerlund stated they can get the go-ahead with the renovation, and work out the particulars with the windows by the fall. Stracke stated that is a possibility. Bailey stated another issue not reflected on this plan that was brought up today has to do with the accessible route to the Birch Hall building. Currently an accessible route in this configuration does not exist. What has been discussed is how to get an accessible route to the building and get an exterior ramp into the arts and crafts room of the building that would be compliant with the federal guideline with the ADA, which would deal with the civil rights issue of being able to access the building. Bailey continued it would not negate Chapter 1341 in the Minnesota Building Code,but Friendship must be sensitive to the clientele who use this building to avoid any of the civil rights pratfalls that could occur with someone who may feel they have been slighted. He stated he would want to avoid 40 or 50 feet of ramp which would destroy the character of that building. They are working on a solution with a ramp and railings plus the grade that is there. Adams asked if the HPC members would like to speak among themselves for a few minutes Eden Prairie Heritage Preservation Commission March 20, 2006 Page 6 Muehlberg stated it is difficult to provide a recommendation since there is nothing concrete to move forward on with the windows. Gilbertson asked if another HPC meeting could be held prior to April 18. Mackay stated she likes what Akerlund suggested; it does not matter if they have the final recommendations because windows will not be started until the fall. Stracke responded that may be a good solution. The foundation, et cetera, will be finished by the first part of June. If there is no issue with that, then he requested letting Friendship move forward with that part of the project. He stated one concern of the Board is if HPC disallowed removal of these windows. That would be of concern with the Board, since fundraising has already begun. The Board is very excited about this project. He stated he is just asking that serious consideration be given to resolution of this issue. Adams stated the HPC can still have a meeting and a further report from the guests on the issues that have arisen today while still giving approval on what has been seen so far. Stracke stated the more research that is done, the more it costs. Cost is an issue. Adams asked what course of action Barkley recommends. Barkley stated she believes an interim meeting should be held, and get them started on the excavation work. Stracke noted the windows were not part of the grant application. The grant is in the amount of$79,300. It was based on his conversation with Mr. Buechel about the lack of understanding of Minnesota winters. Gertz stated HPC is only approving what it sees here today. The overall plans are great; the only issue is the windows,because he does not believe that will meet the Secretary of Interior's guidelines. He stated SHPO will have to be included in the planning. Stracke stated Mr. Buechel indicated Friendship literally can do anything they want with the building. But if it falls outside what the Secretary of Interior deems as historic, it could be de-listed. But he stated they do not understand Minnesota winters. Adams stated that is really not the issue. If there are replacement windows, there are expectations for those windows. Gertz stated regarding Buechel's comments about doing anything they want, there is truth in that. However, it is a City property so it falls under the purview of the Commission because it is an historic property. Eden Prairie Heritage Preservation Commission March 20, 2006 Page 7 Stracke stated he concurs. But Friendship is the organization trying to raise the money so it is functional. Adams stated HPC's mission is to be caretakers of the historic buildings. HPC has to make sure everything has been investigated. And if Friendship Ventures can demonstrate everything has been investigated, the goal is not to hold the project up. Muehlberg stated a motion should be made stating it is contingent on further review of the window issue. Amell asked if this will hold up the progress of the renovation. Stracke stated he believes they can proceed. Bailey added if Friendship goes in with a full set of documents about how they want to construct the building, yes, a building permit can be gotten. If the windows are changed, that really does not wind up being a building permit issue. Discussion ensued regarding whether a special HPC meeting needs to be held prior to the next Council meeting. It was decided there will be one more regularly scheduled HPC meeting prior to the next Council meeting, so an update could be provided at that time if need be. Van Sickle stated this will be a very straightforward way to bring the building into compliance. He described how he would like the panels constructed. He stated this help with the varmint issue. Bailey described the various types of wood throughout the structure. MOTION: Gilbertson moved, seconded by Mackay, to approve the plans dated 3-13-2006 submitted by Friendship Ventures for Edenwood Center Dormitory and Dining Hall Buildings of the historic Glen Lake Children's Camp, with the following condition: if reuse of historic windows is not feasible, replacement windows will be approved by the HPC prior to construction of the windows. Plaza asked if there needs to be written approval from SHPO. Gertz responded SHPO needs to approve the plans. Adams asked if the motion implies that SHPO has to grant approval. Gertz stated no, it is not implied. AMENDED MOTION: Gilbertson moved, seconded by Mackay, to approve the plans dated 3-13-2006 submitted by Friendship Ventures for Edenwood Center Dormitory and Dining Hall Buildings of the historic Glen Lake Children's Camp, with the following condition: if reuse of historic windows is not feasible, replacement windows will be approved by the HPC and SHPO prior to construction of the windows. Motion carried 7-0. Eden Prairie Heritage Preservation Commission March 20, 2006 Page 8 Van Sickle, Bailey, and Stracke departed the meeting at 8:17 p.m. V. REPORTS OF COMMISSION AND STAFF None. VI. OLD BUSINESS A. CLG GRANT UPDATE Gertz stated the current CLG grant application will be reviewed by the grants review committee on March 30. He feels confident they will get the grant for the reuse study for the Cummins-Grill House project. Gertz stated the grant staff is working on now is on track to be completed at the end of July. Adams suggested she would like to schedule visits to the three sites prior to a meeting. Adams asked if the HPC meeting could be held at a different location. Gertz stated yes, as long as it has to be posted 5 days prior. Amell questioned whether all three sites can be covered at once. Gertz stated another option is to put together a PowerPoint presentation on each site and show it at the next meeting. Mackay stated if individuals need to see the sites, perhaps they can see them individually. Gertz stated he will provide contact information to the HPC members so they can schedule their visits on their own. B. CUMMINS HOUSE PROJECT UPDATE Gertz reported the ice box is demolished. The site has been excavated and footings will be poured tomorrow. He stated he met at the site today with Councilmember Sherri Butcher, Tom Guelcher, and Mark Wickstrom. There are only two people signed up for the Midwest Preservation Institute's winter class. Because of that, the class will be pushed back to May 8 when the weather will be better. C. EDEN PRAIRIE HISTORY BOOK UPDATE Gertz reported the memo outlines a timeline for reprinting "The First 100 Years" by Helen Anderson. Eden Prairie Heritage Preservation Commission March 20, 2006 Page 9 Adams stated she would like to thank Barkley and Gilbertson for their participation on the HPC. Barkley has diligently served on the Commission for nine years. Gilbertson provided expertise and experience during her service. VII. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Amell moved, seconded by Mackay, to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried 7-0. The meeting adjourned at 8:30 p.m.