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Parks and Recreation - 12/01/2003 APPROVED MINUTES PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, DECEMBER 1, 2003 7:00 P.M. City Center HERITAGE ROOM I COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Jeffrey Gerst, Vice Chair; John Brill, Tom Crain, Randy Jacobus, David Larson, Ian Mackay, Michael Moriarity and Bruce Schaepe COMMISSION MEMBER ABSENT: Rob Barrett, Chair COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: Bob Lambert, Director of Parks and Recreation Services; Laurie Obiazor, Manager of Recreation Services; Beth DeGree, Aquatics and Fitness Supervisor; and Carol Pelzel, Recording Secretary STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Rachel Giertz and Cole Johnson I. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL The meeting was called to order by Vice-Chair Gerst at 7:00 p.m. Gerst asked if Shea was still an active student member of this Commission since he has not been in attendance for the last couple of meetings. Lambert indicated that he would call him to see if he is still interested in serving on the Commission. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Motion: Schaepe moved, seconded by Jacobus, to approve the agenda as presented. The motion carried, 8-0. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES —November 3, 2003 Motion: Motion was made by Brill, seconded by Larson, to approve the minutes as published. The motion carried, 8-0. Schaepe asked that the minutes be corrected to show that the meeting was held in the Council Chambers and not in Heritage Rooms I and 11. IV. REPORT OF CITY COUNCIL ACTION Lambert reported that the City Council did approve the construction of an archery range as recommended by this Commission. The Council also approved the tribute to Charlotte Bruening in the Senior Center's garden. The request by the Soccer Association to restrict dogs from Flying Cloud fields will be considered by the Council in January to allow the various Associations time Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission Minutes December 1, 2003 Page 2 to review this request. Lambert explained that the request for the change in hours at the Fitness Center did not go to the Council for their approval. This type of request is an administrative request and can be approved by this Commission. V. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATION A. Proposal from Vicki Pellar-Price Lambert introduced Vicki Pellar-Price explaining that Ms. Pellar-Price is requesting approval to install an Interpretive Trail Signage Program in the Richard T. Anderson Conservation Area at no cost to the City. Pellar-Price presented a brief background to the Commission explaining the various programs she is working on throughout the community. She explained that Writers Rising Up is a non-profit organization that is proposing this Interpretive Trail Signage Program and is attempting to obtain donations sufficient to develop the proposed signage program. Pellar- Price further explained that the project they are discussing this evening is called the Elizabeth Fry Ellet Interpretive Trail (EFEIT) in the Richard T. Anderson Conservation Area. Ellet was a writer sent to explore the new territory by the New York Times and is credited for naming Eden Prairie when she visited this community in 1852. Pellar-Price said they are suggesting that this trail be based on Ellet's writings, "Summer Rambles in the West", to allow the trail users to see the various floras through her narrative. She reviewed with the Commission the definition of an Interpretive Trail explaining that the trail contains original native plant communities, interpreted through the written word. Pellar-Price reviewed with the Commission the benefits to the community for having such a trail. The EFEIT has the potential to attract many visitors to the Conservation Area,both regionally and nationally. Pellar-Price stated that a big part of this program is sponsorship. They have talked to several Eden Prairie businesses about sponsoring this project and they have received some oral commitments. Businesses would receive community recognition through their sponsorship by being included in the trail guides. Pellar-Price indicated that the group would also be applying for various grants to assist in funding this program. Peter MacDonagh, of The Kestrel Design Group, said he has been serving as the botanical historical person on this project and would like to discuss with the Commission the various plant communities in this conservation area. MacDonagh stated that this site is a jewel for the City and in time will be a lot like the original site that Elizabeth Fry Ellet saw in the 1800's. It is not their intention to alter the site from how it is currently laid out. No extra trails will be added and they are proposing a total of six additional signs. The proposed signs will be pulled off the trail and will not be visible from the trail; however, the introduction sign will be visible from the parking lot. MacDonagh indicated on a map the location of the proposed signs. The proposed signs will fit the guidelines of the existing signs in the conservation area. Moriarity asked if the signs would only include quotes from Ellet's book or if they would include other educational information. Pellar-Price said they would include a little bit of both. The first sign would talk about the modes of transportation used by Ellet to reach this sight and what she saw. Each sign would be different and would include an interweaving of Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission Minutes December 1, 2003 Page 3 what was happening at that time. Moriarity pointed out that the existing signs seemed educational and he wondered how the proposed signs would fit in with the existing ones. Pellar-Price responded that they would be different but would certainly relate to the existing ones. Lambert explained that the idea of the project is that as you walk the trails and follow the signs, you will be brought back in time. This is one place in Eden Prairie where you can appreciate what this area looked like 150 years ago and you will be able to read about what the people wrote about this area at that time. The signs will tell a little bit about the history of the community and will also educate the trail users about the botanical parts of the site. Lambert pointed out that City staff does support this proposed project. They also see it as something that will be unique to the area. Staff is recommending that the Commission approve this request subject to City Staff and this Commission reviewing the actual signs. The City does have its own historical staff and naturalist and they need to make sure the signs correspond with historical and natural facts. This would all be worked out before the signs are placed in the park. Lambert said they have cautioned the group that they do not want to see one sign after another. Users of the trails do not want to come out to see signs but to see what is there naturally. The signs will provide an informational story to the residents of Eden Prairie. Gerst said he is in favor of the trail and he would like to see the signs located in the park. However, he said he is not clear on how the sponsorship program would work. Pellar-Price explained that sponsors would be included in a paper guide; their names would not be on the actual signs. For example, if Barnes and Nobles were a sponsor they could put on a book fair with a portion of the proceeds going to the trail program and this information would be included in the guide. The guide would be distributed throughout the City to get people interested in the trail. Jacobus asked where the guide would be distributed. Pellar-Price responded that they would be in stores and they would also like to have the guides in the park. These guides would include maps of the conservation area. Lambert explained that it is not untypical to have these guides in interpretive parks. However, if the guides are discarded throughout the park, they may have to discontinue the placement of the guides in the park. Pellar-Price said this information would also be included on a web site. Mackay asked what the estimated cost is for a program such as this. Lambert responded that the estimated cost is approximately $36,000. Mackay asked if there is any additional cost for on-going maintenance. Lambert said they do not anticipate anything significant other than repairs if there is vandalism. In response to a question from Brill, Pellar-Price said they would be applying for grants from various organizations including the DNR, Minnesota Historical Society, Bell Museum, etc. Mackay suggested that this information also be included on the City's web site. Lambert said some of the information would be appropriate for the City's web site. It would all depend on what they want to promote. Mackay asked if Pellar-Price would be amenable to working with City staff in getting this information on the City's web site. Pellar-Price said they would be very happy to work with the City. Pellar-Price said they would be working with City staff in developing these signs. The Writers Rising Up logo will be placed on the bottom of the sign. Moriarity asked if the City has any issues with this group raising money on behalf of a City park. Lambert said they do Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission Minutes December 1, 2003 Page 4 not have to be concerned that this group will raise more money than is needed for this project. However, the City should require an annual report on the amount of money raised and the amount spent so that they are aware of how this project is doing. Lambert said they would like to see several signs done at one time rather than one done now and than another at a much later date. He would suggest that they get a majority of the funding in place prior to ordering and installing signs. Crain pointed out that this is a four-season park and he asked if the signs were going to be seasonal. Pellar-Price explained that the park is normally accessible from May to November. They will attempt to make the signs as interesting as possible for that period of time. Larson asked if the signs would be changed on a periodic basis. MacDonagh explained that they would not be changed. The updated information would be included in the supplemental writings that would be included in the guides. Gerst said he feels it would also be appropriate for both City staff and this Commission to review these guides prior to distribution. Motion: Motion was made by Jacobus, seconded by Mackay, to recommend the City Council consider the proposal by Vicki Pellar-Price to install staff approved Interpretive Trail Signage Program in the Richard T. Anderson Conservation Area at no cost to the City of Eden Prairie. Brill said he wanted to make it clear that there will be no cost to the City particularly with the current situation of the City being criticized for the funds expended on its historical sites. The motion carried, 8-0. B. Report from Wellbridu rmardins! an Outdoor Pool Lambert reported that Lifetime Fitness talked to the City about partnering with them in developing a water park. Their proposal was to build their facility on parkland and connect it to the Community Center. Lifetime Fitness wanted to own the club and use City parkland. Lambert explained that the land they wanted to use was acquired with State and Federal funds. These funds would not allow the City to take that land away from the public unless state and federal government approves and the only way they would approve this would be if there were no other land available. That was not the case; therefore, the Lifetime Fitness proposal was not a viable proposal. Lambert explained that Wellbridge has now come to the City stating that they would like to partner with the City for the development of a water park and have suggested a number of ways to do that. Basically, Wellbridge would design the facility; the City would construct approximately a $5.1 million development attached to the Eden Prairie Community Center at Round Lake Park and Wellbridge would then enter into a twenty-year lease with the City to operate the aquatics park. Wellbridge would pay the City $200,000 per year for this lease with increase in payments beginning in year three. Lambert pointed out that there currently is no room for Wellbridge to build a water park at their other facilities, Flagship and Northwest Racquet. Without an outdoor facility, they do lose business during the summer months and they want to promote access to a water park. Lambert said City staff has concerns regarding the current Wellbridge proposal to the City. The City would be responsible for maintenance of the facility and the City does not know what the annual maintenance and utility cost would Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission Minutes December 1, 2003 Page 5 be. Lambert explained that he would like the Commission's thoughts on this proposal. He indicated that this would be discussed by this Commission and City Council at a joint workshop on December 16. Moriarity pointed out that the City has done requests for information or requests for proposals in the past and suggested that this may be something they would want to consider for a water park. Perhaps other interested parties would come forward with a proposal for City consideration. Lambert explained that Lifetime and Wellbridge are two Eden Prairie corporations that have facilities in the City. Lambert said it would probably be best to list the criteria for a water park and then consider doing an RFP, although he doubts if there would be too many other proposals. Jacobus indicated that the proposed fees for the water park are what it would cost to go to Flagship. Lambert responded that the proposed fees are somewhat higher than neighboring water parks,but not much. Jacobus pointed out that those residents who can afford the fees are already members of a health club. Jacobus said he had hoped the water park would be an alternative for those who can't afford to join a private club. Lambert said he agrees and that a municipal pool should be an alternative and competitive with other municipal pools. Gerst said he feels there should be some cheaper options for families, perhaps a seasonal pass type of thing. Lambert said the proposed punch card is a nice option but he also feels they should still offer a season pass. Lambert indicated that staff did ask Wellbridge how they would charge Northwest or Flagship members for use of the park and they indicated that they had not yet thought about that. Jacobus pointed out that an outdoor water park is a huge competitor to Wellbridge's summer business. Jacobus said his first impression after reading this proposal is that he does not like the idea of Wellbridge having the private clubs in the City and then be in charge of the proposed water park. He said he was also concerned that this is a municipal pool and there should be some alternative for those who can't afford a private club. Lambert said staff has talked to public pool operators and they have all indicated that after paying operating costs they are making more than what is being offered to the City under this proposal and they still have control of their own facility. Lambert explained that he still likes the idea of partnering with someone like Wellbridge. He would like to see a deal where they pay the City a flat amount and give their members a break in fees. Lambert said he feels the Wellbridge proposal leaves a lot to be desired,but would like to continue discussions with them. Jacobus pointed out that in Wellbridge's pro forma they show a steady increase in the number of users each year. Jacobus said he would think that by year two or three the novelty of this facility would wear off. Lambert said the highest number of participants would be the first full year of operation, and our studies show that the number levels off after year four unless new attractions are provided. Gerst said he does not feel that this proposal gives them the option for expansion. He indicated that he is open to the idea of partnering,however,he does not feel that this Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission Minutes December 1, 2003 Page 6 proposal is the way the City should go. Brill asked if staff has talked to Maple Grove since they have partnered with Wellbridge. Lambert responded that they have and that Maple Grove residents have a better deal than residents in Plymouth or Savage have from Lifetime. Brill asked if staff sees an increase in outdoor water parks in the western suburbs. Lambert said that there would be new pools built. Water parks will become more unique and interesting as time goes on. Giertz pointed out that currently the swim clubs are renting from other municipalities. She asked if the City would charge them rent if a new pool were built. Lambert said they would but the revenue is rather small from swim teams, less than one percent of the revenue. Jacobus stated that the estimated cost of the water park project is $14.7 million with half of that cost for relocating the baseball fields and parking lots and Community Center improvements. He asked if another location would be more suitable for this project and cost less or is it proposed at this location because they want the pool attached to the Community Center. Lambert responded that when the study was done the Task Force did look at several locations and there were not a lot of options. This option seemed to be the best for a public pool. Larson stated that the Community Center would have to be updated so this becomes somewhat of a wash. Johnson asked if under the Wellbridge proposal, would the City have to do any future renovations? Lambert responded that the proposal does refer to having to make major renovations every five years and it is expected that the City would have to pay for those renovations. Mackay said he feels the Wellbridge goals are not the same as the City's goals. Their goal seems to be to make a profit while the City's is to provide services to its residents. Their proposal also indicates that they will be mitigating operating risk exposure which staff does not believe to be true. Crain said he sees Wellbridge's proposal as being an elitist country club. He said he feels Wellbridge has to do a lot to erase that idea. Gerst said his original thought in looking at a partnership was to defray some of the upfront costs and this proposal does not appear to accomplish that. He said he did not see a strong upside with this proposal. Brill said that if the City can build this water park and provide a service, they do not need Wellbridge. They do provide an outstanding service for residents to the City but their goals appear to be different from the City's. Moriarity stated that the City needs to take a closer look at the numbers. When the City invests that much money in capital they need to look at some kind of return. Jacobson said he feels the proposed project is too expensive. In some instances it is great to partner with a private corporation but this proposal does not seem to be the best for this community. The City's primary goal is to provide a service to all of its residents. Jacobus said that the idea of Wellbridge running every public pool in the City makes him nervous. Larson pointed out that the City's survey showed 57% of the public wanted a pool as their top priority. Perhaps they should look at what it would cost the City to operate versus a private organization running it. They need to look at it from a dollar perspective. This is a proposal from one organization and they came to the City. If the citizens indicate that they don't want an increase in taxes to build a water park they may want to get competitive bids from a number of outside organizations. Lambert said this would be discussed at their Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission Minutes December 1, 2003 Page 7 December 16 workshop and it may be decided that they need to go out for an RFP to see what proposals are out there. Jacobus asked if the City wants to lose control of the water park. Lambert said if the City has to pay for the entire project they would not want to lose control. The only reason they would think about giving up control of a public facility is if the public didn't pay for it. Schaepe asked if they are wasting their time talking to these people. It sounds like the City has an idea of what they want to do and he cannot believe that there will be someone out there that will do it the way the City wants it done. Lambert said that may be,but because Lifetime came in and started discussions there was an article in the paper. Residents think the City should look into partnering with a private organization so that taxes would not have to be raised if someone else built the facility for the City. The idea of a private/public partnership is out there and it is necessary to now follow through the entire process. VI. NEW BUSINESS A. December 16 Workshop with City Council Lambert reported that a special workshop has been scheduled for this Commission and the City Council for Tuesday, December 16. The Commission needs to discuss with the Council several items including the report from MarketLine Research on the results of their survey. They will also discuss Wellbridge's proposal. If the Council is pleased with the results of the survey they may want to consider a referendum next spring. VII. REPORTS OF STAFF A. Director of Parks and Recreation Services 1. Policy on Memorials in Parks Lambert explained that there is no written policy on memorials in parks. However,he did put in writing what the unwritten policy has been. Memorials are for individuals who contributed a significant amount of their time and energy over an extended period of time to improve the quality of life for citizens of Eden Prairie. These "memorials" are different from the park benches or trees that are authorized by staff that are funded by friends or family members for people who have lived in Eden Prairie. Jacobus said he does not feel that they need to make an official motion to adopt this policy. It appears to be working the way it is now and this Commission can review any item that might be questionable. Lambert pointed out that anything that is not a park bench or tree does come before this Commission for approval. Jacobus pointed out that by making it an official written policy they might be limiting themselves. Gerst said he is fine with recognizing this document as a guideline. Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission Minutes December 1, 2003 Page 8 2. Options for Acquisition of Birch Island Woods Property Lambert presented to the Commission the options for acquiring and financing the expansion of Birch Island Woods. The City Council asked City staff to prepare a report on what the different options are to acquire or finance four acres in Birch Island Woods. This was one of the items included in the City survey and the information on the number of residents that supported this acquisition will be discussed at the December 16 workshop. Mackay asked if they would have an opportunity to look at the survey prior to that meeting. Lambert said they will be distributing a packet of information to the Commission prior to the meeting and if the survey is available they will include it in that packet. VII. ADJOURNMENT Motion: Schaepe moved, Jacobus seconded, to adjourn the meeting. The motion carried 8-0. The meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m.