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Parks and Recreation - 08/04/2003 APPROVED MINUTES PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY,AUGUST 4, 2003 7:00 P.M. City Center Heritage Rooms III & IV COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Vice Chair Jeffrey Gerst, Tom Crain, Randy Jacobus, David Larson, Ian Mackay and Bruce Schaepe COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Chair Rob Barrett and John Brill COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: Bob Lambert, Director of Parks and Recreation Services; Stu Fox, Manager of Natural Resources; Laurie Obiazor, Manager of Recreation Services; Bob Lanzi, Ice Arena, Maintenance and Concessions Coordinator; Lyndell Frey, Community Center Manager and Carol Pelzel, Recording Secretary I. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL The meeting was called to order by Vice Chair Gerst at 7:00 p.m. Bob Lambert, Director of Parks and Recreation,reported that Commissioner Barrett was out of town and would not be this meeting and Commissioner Brill also had a conflict. He also stated that Trisha Swanson has moved out of the City and is no longer on the Commission. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Motion: Schaepe moved, Larson seconded, to approve the agenda as published. The motion carried, 6-0. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES —July 7, 2003 Schaepe asked that Swanson's name be removed from the list of Commission members on Page 1. Mackay asked that under VLC, Review of Playground Replacement Program, the minutes reflect that he did ask about arsenic and that staff stated that the site was tested and found that it is not an issue. Motion: Schaepe moved, Jacobus seconded, to approve the July 7, 2003, minutes as amended. The motion carried, 6-0. IV. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATION PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION August 4, 2003 Page 2 A. Friends of Birch Island Requests—Jeff Strate 1. Proposed Birch Island Historical and Natural Heritage District Lambert reported that Jeff Strate, organizer of the Friends of Birch Island Woods,has asked to speak to the Commission on several items regarding Birch Island Woods. Included with the Commissioner's agenda was the information that Mr. Strate provided to staff. Jeff Strate introduced members of the audience including Phil Mortenson, Terry Picha and Vicky Miller. He displayed a map of the Birch Island Woods area and explained that over the last two years the Friends of Birch Island Woods have been discussing the formation of a district. This district would include public land owned by the City, land owned by Hennepin County, land owned by Hennepin Regional Railroad Authority and possibly private land. Strate pointed out that there is a lot of history in the Birch Island Woods and it is imperative that they protect these woods. Strate explained that they have talked to the City's Preservation Specialist and have been provided with information on similar types of sites throughout the United States. This proposal is on a very small scale compared to some of the other cities. Strate said the reason for such a district would be to have everyone on the same track to realize what a wonderful set of resources the City has in the area. The district would provide them with a formal mechanism whereby any matter that would affect this area would be reviewed. Strate said there is no question that there will be future redevelopment in Eden Prairie. It would be nice to have a Board or organization to review the proposed changes to this site and to have this Board or organization interface with the organization making the final decisions. Strate explained that there would be minimal cost for forming such a district. They are not proposing that any land be purchased and the only cost incurred would probably be administrative costs. Strate indicated that the district might not even require a Board of Directors but may only consist of signage around the perimeter of the site. There would not be a huge capital outlay. Strate further explained that the reason for creating such a district is that they should give a higher value to all of the historic natural and residential assets that this area harbors. As development and redevelopment proposals come forward, they should have a set of recommendations that are followed. This site is something they have to take care of in the future and this proposed district might enable them to do that. Gerst said he is in favor of the conservation area but questioned how this Commission or the City would be able to assist the Friends of Birch Island Woods. Strate responded that this proposed district is somewhat different from a City function. They will be dealing with private property owners, non-profit organizations, the County and the City. They may not even want a Board or Commission but what a district would do is to help develop a set of recommendations and guidelines for future use of this area. Strate said PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION August 4, 2003 Page 3 the Heritage Preservation Commission (HPQ and even this Commission along with others could develop recommendations. Strate said they are not asking for any action from this Commission at this time. This information is being presented to the Commission for informational purposes only. Strate said there is much more work to be done to develop a plan and this may take a year or two. Mackay questioned if this area is part of the park plan. Fox responded that Birch Island Woods is a conservation area. In response to a question from Mackay, Lambert explained that a conservation area is land designated for the primary purpose of conserving natural resources. A conservation area follows the 80/20 development rule which recommends that 80 percent of the land be reserved while 20 percent of it is developed for passive uses such as trails and picnic areas. Strate explained that by creating this district it would enable them to do some special signage. They may also form something other than a Commission or Board with representatives from various parties. This district would also allow them to have a group of people that have common interest in an area to lobby for additional grants or funds for possible capital improvements. This group would have the authority to go to the Legislature for funding of those capital improvements. Crain indicated that he is familiar with the area and said it is a special area. He said that Strate talked about neighborhoods and he asked what the significance was of the neighborhoods in the district. Strate explained that they will probably develop several options and one of those options would be fairly restrictive. In talking about neighborhoods, they are referring to a geographical area. They do need to have discussions with the neighborhoods to see if they are interested in being part of the district. They are not proposing homeowner associations. Strate explained that if a Board were formed, they would probably recommend that they include the parameter roads and the adjacent neighborhoods. They would not require anyone to do anything. It would give the homeowners the opportunity to look at the surrounding area and to consider doing something. Larson said he sees this as an on-going task force where individuals from all different backgrounds have an interest or common desire to keep this area pristine. Larson indicated that he would like to see who would be on this Board, their bylaws and restrictions along with their roll and responsibilities. This would give this Commission something to look at and something to vote on. This appears to be a work in progress. Strate responded that they are in the process of fine-tuning this proposal and anything they create will have to be self-sustaining. Larson said they would need to develop a mission statement. Strate said they are in the process of holding informational meetings to get feedback and they plan to work more with the people in the area. If those people don't care about this proposal they may have to drop the entire idea. PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION August 4, 2003 Page 4 Crain said this area has a real mix including businesses and private homeowners. He asked if the businesses have been contacted. Strate responded that they have not been and that it is too early in the process. 2. Birch Island Woods Parking Lot Construction Timetable Strate said he has received several inquiries regarding the parking lot to be constructed in Birch Island Woods. Strate said he is asking that this Commission look at the possibility of delaying construction of that parking lot until the status of four acres of land on Birch Island Road is determined. They feel that this four-acre site might be a really great site for a parking area that could serve the conservation area and also preserve the opportunity for a living history farm. However, the City could not put a parking lot on property they do not own. Strate said that is why they are suggesting that construction of the parking lot be delayed until they know whether or not the City will acquire this property. The four-acre site is owned by the Picha family. Larson asked if this would be contingent on the City purchasing the land. Strate said either that or an easement. Strate stated that they believe there is some merit in delaying construction of this parking lot until they find out where this land ends up. Lambert said to delay construction of the parking lot until next year is not a bad idea and would give them additional time to look at the proposal. Lambert said that this site would be good in terms of driving in, and the views would be much nicer in this area. However, it would be extremely difficult to provide ADA access to the trails because of the site's elevation. A much longer trail would be required to get down to the elevation and it would also require removal of additional vegetation. Lambert explained that if all or a portion of the property comes to the City, they could look at several designs to see which would work best. Lambert said he is skeptical about the feasibility of this site being a better location for the parking lot. Fox explained that the Task Force studied this entire area and developed the recommendation for the location of the trails and parking lot. The proposed lot is not adjacent to homes and is an area where people can easily access the trail and is something relatively inexpensive to construct. Larson asked if they delayed this project, would the City still be able to put the parking lot in the location they are currently proposing. Lambert responded that yes, they would. Schaepe asked who owns the four-acre parcel and what the current status is between the owner and the City. Terry Picha responded that there are currently six owners with one family owning 50 percent and the other family owning 50 percent. One of the families wants to liquidate rather quickly and is proposing development for this site. Picha said he is not opposed to selling the property to the City,however, the City is not able to purchase it at this time. It is anticipated that the fate of the property will be decided by January or February. Picha said his family couldn't afford to purchase the property from the other family. Schaepe asked if the City is considering purchasing this property. PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION August 4, 2003 Page 5 Lambert explained that there are several properties that the City will look at purchasing including the 4.02 acres of Picha property. They have also received appraisals for two lots at Riley Lake Park. These properties may be placed on a referendum allowing the citizens of Eden Prairie the opportunity to decide if the City should purchase these sites. The City Council and this Commission will have to consider these items over the next six months. Strate explained that this is a difficult situation and there are other pieces of land that the City's trail system needs. Strate pointed out that the Friends of Birch Island Woods is attempting to get money from somewhere to acquire the Picha property. They will continue to explore different alternatives for acquiring this property. Motion: Crain moved, seconded by Jacobus, to delay construction of the planned parking lot within Birch Island Woods for 12 months. Mackay asked about the safety issue that was prompting the development of this parking lot. Lambert explained that people are currently parking along Indian Chief Road and that road is not designed for parking. However, there is not much traffic on that road and there is generally not more than one or two cars parked on the street. It is not a major concern at this time,but they need to be aware that there are concerns with people parking there that have children that may step into the traffic to get to one of the City's parks. When the City has a trail available for the citizen's use, they need to provide safe parking lots and this site does not have that. Larson asked if the City would be liable if something did happen. Lambert responded that someone could say that the City is responsible. He explained that it would be difficult to get this parking lot as proposed constructed this year. The project is to be done in-house and staff resources are limited. Mackay suggested that if the project is delayed, they schedule it to be constructed early next year. Lambert said he would recommend that the Commission delay this project to the construction season of 2004. He said that as soon as they find out the disposition of the four acres they would bring this item back to the Commission. Crain amended his motion to delay construction of the planned parking lot within Birch Island Woods to the 2004 construction season. Jacobus seconded the amendment. Vote was called on the amended motion with all members present voting aye. The motion carried, 6-0. 3. Reports a. Buckthorn Control Education Proms Strate reported that the Friends of Birch Island Woods sponsored two buckthorn seminars. The attendees consisted of mostly private landowners. This was a very modest program and they hope to continue these seminars. PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION August 4, 2003 Page 6 b. Birch Island Lake Level Study Strate explained that the level of Birch Island Lake was approximately ten feet below level in the early 1990's. It was thought that the construction of the Crosstown Highway affected the level of the lake at that time. A second study was done several years ago and the Nine Mile Creek Watershed District agreed to do a more entailed study of the lake levels. Strate further explained that a private company drilled two water-measuring wells in addition to those already in the area. Hopefully they will have gathered enough data within the year to determine whether or not anything can be done or determine what the problem is. They are thinking that the wrong type of ballast was used to build the Crosstown Highway. c. Friends of Birch Island Woods Guide to SW Regional LRT Trail Strate reported that this Guide is published on the Internet and provides information on the SW Regional LRT Trail. An article will be in the Eden Prairie News this week regarding this publication. d. June 29, 2003 Open Space Workshop Strate stated that the Friends of Birch Island Woods were co-sponsors for the Open Space Workshop. They had 55 people register. Other participating sponsors included Friends of Minnesota Valley and Minnesota Land Trust. The workshop was successful and looked at how to deal with the kind of issues Eden Prairie will be dealing with in the next four years. e. Illeizal Drinkiniz —Birch Island Woods Strate explained that when the kids are back in school they've noticed a lot of beer parties and illegal parking occurring in this area. They have sent a request to the Public Safety Department asking them to patrol this area during the weekend. B. Request to Chance Sunday Open Skate Times Lambert reported that City staff is requesting authorization to cancel public open skating sessions to accommodate the request by the Eden Prairie Hockey Association to host three hockey tournaments this winter. Staff feels this is a reasonable request and these tournaments are critical to the Hockey Association's fund raising to allow them to continue hockey. Gerst asked if there was an additional tournament last year. Lanzi responded that last year they requested four tournaments, this year they are back to three. He further explained that this is their initial request and they can back fill whatever they do not need depending on the number of teams that sign up. Lambert explained that the Community Center is subsidized by the entire community and is not only used by the Hockey Association, Figure Skating PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION August 4, 2003 Page 7 Association or Swim Club. In order to make sure the rest of the community is able to use this facility, the City Council and the Parks Commission gave strong direction that open skating times and open swim times cannot be changed by the Staff but needs to go before the Parks Commission. Changing these times should not be done automatically. Lambert did point out that Eden Prairie does have twice as much open skate time scheduled than any other community center or ice arena in the area. In response to a question from Larson, Lanzi responded that they are canceling a total of 14 sessions. Last year they were able to add back in some of the canceled open skating sessions. Larson pointed out that they have approximately 120 open sessions and the proposed canceled sessions amount to ten percent of the total sessions. Jacobus asked if the Hockey Association would be able to run the tournaments without these times. Lanzi explained that it would be very difficult. Gerst said he is in favor of this request, however, he would be opposed to a fourth tournament. Larson asked if any complaints were received last year when they canceled the open skating sessions. Frey answered that they had a few calls questioning why open skating was canceled. Motion: Motion was made by Larson, seconded by Jacobus, to authorize the cancellation of public open skating sessions to accommodate the request by the Eden Prairie Hockey Association to host three hockey tournaments this winter. Mackay questioned how people are notified of the new schedule. Lanzi responded that a schedule is published and the new times will be posted at the Community Center at the beginning of each month. They also have a Community Center hot line that includes the open skate times and the exceptions to the published schedule. Mackay suggested that it also be posted on the City's Web site. Obiazor said they would post it on the Web site and would also publish the schedule in the local newspapers. Mackay said he would like to see it published in as many places as possible. Vote was called on the motion with all members present voting aye. The motion carried, 6-0. C. Request to Place High School Banners in Ice Arena Lanzi reported that Eden Prairie High School has requested to hang banners in the main rink at Eden Prairie Community Center. There would be one banner recognizing conference championships for the boys and girls high school hockey teams and a second banner recognizing appearances at the state hockey tournament. There would also be a third set of banners acknowledging the member schools in the Lake Conference. Lanzi stated that there currently are no banners hanging in the main arena to acknowledge the various accomplishments of both the girls and boys varsity teams. There currently are banners in the Community Center Pool acknowledging state championships by the girls and boys varsity swim teams. PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION August 4, 2003 Page 8 Jacobus asked if there is any reason for them not to approve this request. Lambert responded that years ago the School District sued the City over the location of Valley View Road. At that time the City and the School District were not cooperating with each other. When the Community Center was built there was a strong opinion on the City Council that this is a City facility and not a school facility. Since that time the City Council and School Board have looked more at this as a joint facility used by the community's kids. Motion: Jacobus moved, seconded by Mackay, to authorize the placement of Eden Prairie High School banners in the main rink at Eden Prairie Community Center to accommodate a request by the Eden Prairie High School. The motion carried, 6-0. D. Hockey Association Request Lambert reported that the City has received a request from the Hockey Association to change Sunday open skate times that serve all residents in the community to accommodate a skating camp for kids ages 4 to 6. Lambert explained that City staff couldn't support a request that would require the entire community to schedule their open skate on Sundays during the supper hour. Motion: Jacobus moved, seconded by Mackay, to deny the Hockey Association request to change Sunday Open Skate hours during the months of October, November, February and March from 1:00 p.m. to 3:00 p.m. to 4:45 p.m. to 6:45 p.m. The motion carried, 6-0. V. OLD BUSINESS A. Discussion of For-Profit Use of Public Facilities Lambert explained that at the Commission's July 7 meeting, they reviewed current practices and fees for public use of City facilities. At that meeting, the Commission expressed a concern regarding the type of users that were utilizing public facilities for private gain without rental fees. The Commission requested staff to provide a recommendation relating to appropriate fees for all users beyond league play for youth. Lambert asked that the Commission review the City's recommended position regarding priority use and fees for facilities as follows: 1. All youth athletic associations providing league games for children 18 and under should have access to league games and practices at no cost(with a maximum number of uses per team per week set by the City). This assumes 95 percent of the association participants are Eden Prairie residents. In response to a question from Schaepe, Lambert responded that approximately 60 percent of the Fox Jets are Eden Prairie residents. Lambert pointed out that Community Center fees would be separate from this fee schedule. This schedule is for City outdoor facilities. Mackay asked if this schedule would also apply to outdoor school facilities. PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION August 4, 2003 Page 9 Lambert said they are suggesting that it does but the School District may not agree. 2. Athletic associations, clubs or Eden Prairie teams that accommodate participants 18 years and older should be charged a maintenance fee for the use of ballfields, courts, etc.for league play, tournaments, etc. to pay for direct costs. Lambert explained that some of the teams that use the City's fields are over 18 and are college age teams or adult teams. Adult softball teams have been paying for maintenance of fields for years. Staff is now suggesting that all other adult teams pay what the softball teams have been paying. The fee would be $22 per game and would include adult baseball, adult flag football and adult soccer. They are suggesting that they not charge for use of the tennis courts at this time. Jacobus asked if they are matching the fees with cost. Larson suggested that they also look at including fees for damage and/or abuse to the fields. Lambert responded that this cost needs to be built into maintenance. Mackay asked if they are proposing a fee for pick-up games. Lambert explained that those games do not cost the City; they are simply public use of facilities. These proposed fees refer to organized leagues that are reserving facilities for a specific use. Fox said if a team does show up on a regular basis they would probably be asked for proof that they have reserved the fields and if they have no reservation, they would be asked to leave. Any user with a reservation could ask them to leave. 3. All users should pay a fee for the use of court and ballfields for any tournament, clinic, camp or individual lesson program where fees are collected. Staff recommends eliminating any "free tournaments" to all travel league programs and would recommend retaining one free tournament for in-house programs. Lambert explained that there currently is a fee for tournaments but they gave in-house and travel programs one free tournament. Lambert said staff is now suggesting that in- house programs still get one free tournament but travel tournaments not be given one free tournament. These travel tournaments have become big business with high expectations for field preparation and they should be required to pay the direct cost. Jacobus asked if the in-house tournaments are for Eden Prairie kids. Fox responded that the in-house tournaments are usually against other Eden Prairie kids. This proposal would eliminate a free tournament for travel programs because these programs bring kids in from outside areas. Jacobus suggested that they charge any outside Eden Prairie teams that use the City's facilities. This would help eliminate any gray areas. Schaepe pointed out that there is a certain amount of money that comes into the community when these outside teams come into the City. Lambert said he agreed,however, this money is not reflected in the City's operational budget. Schaepe said that may be the case but it does affect the whole economy. Larson said he understands what staff is proposing but asked if this is consistent with other cities. Lambert said he has no objection to what this Commission, City Council or School District wants to charge for these facilities as long as they all understand what the costs are. He said they need to consider those people who do not have children in the programs but are subsidizing it. PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION August 4, 2003 Page 10 Crain asked if other cities charge. Lambert said some cities do charge while others don't. 4. City staff would recommend limiting reservations of any public facilities for camps, clinics and lesson programs to programs that have a minimum of 75 percent Eden Prairie residents as participants. Program registration lists would be verified prior to the first day of use. Lambert said they are not sure how this would affect anyone. The 75 percent is the percentage used for priority VI reservation use and staff feels it should be the same for clinic use. Jacobus asked if this proposal is to limit the clinics or to eliminate them. Mackay suggested that the percentage requirement be more lenient than league play. He suggested that it be 50 to 60 percent. Jacobus said he is in favor of the 75 percent requirement. If Eden Prairie's fees were lower than other cities in the area other kids from the surrounding area would be using these facilities. Lambert pointed out that there is so much use on these fields that they are being worn out. 5. The City does not believe that any private clinic, camp or lesson program should have priority use of public facilities over youth athletic association play or tournament. The Commission agreed with this recommendation. 6. Issues on over-use of City and School facilities must be addressed soon, as the current practice is to protect school facilities and reschedule everything to City facilities at no cost to the School District. City facilities will ultimately pay the price. Lambert explained that the School District is instituting a plan to protect their fields and are rescheduling their programs on City fields. The School District does not pay for the use of these fields. Lambert said they need to consider whether or not the School District should pay for the use of the fields. Lambert said staff feels they should pay the City's cost for maintaining these fields. Lambert explained that the fees being proposed come very close to the actual maintenance cost. He suggested that the Commission make a recommendation to the City Council and then that recommendation would be forwarded to the City/School Facility Use Advisory Committee for their consideration. Larson pointed out that he is the Chairperson for that Committee and will relay this discussion to the Committee at their next meeting. Lambert said staff feels that the School District should be paying for City facilities since they are scheduling practices and games on City facilities at no cost to preserve their own fields. However, the City is charged when they use School fields. Also, the School coaches do not hesitate to cancel practices at the last minute since they are not paying for the fields. Mackay asked if staff is recommending that the School not qualify as youth associations. Lambert responded that they would not charge them for practices and league games but would charge them for tournaments. There should be some fair way where the School District would compensate the City for wear and tear to the City fields for practices and PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION August 4, 2003 Page 11 games. This needs to be discussed with the School District. Motion: Motion was made by Gerst, seconded by Larson, to recommend that the City Council consider requesting the City/School Facility Use Advisory Committee appoint an ad hoc committee to address public use of City and School facilities, and appropriate reservations fees and policies. Mackay asked if specific items should be discussed. Gerst amended his motion to include that the priority use and fees listed in the August 4, 2003, memo from Bob Lambert to the Parks, Recreation and Natural Resources Commission are supported by this Commission. Larson seconded the amended motion. Vote was called on the amended motion with all members present voting aye. The motion carried, 6-0. Mackay asked if the vandalism that occurred at Prairie View Park was City property or School District property. Fox said the playground equipment vandalized was School District equipment. VI. NEW BUSINESS A. Dasher Board Advertising at Eden Prairie Community Center Lanzi reported that staff is asking for approval to sell dasher board advertisement in the main rink at the Eden Prairie Community Center. Currently the Community Center does offer forms of advertising in the arena, including on/above the scoreboards and on the zambonis. The primary reason for this request is that it does create extra revenue for facility improvements. The revenue generated would be $3,400 per dasher board for three years of advertisement. Gerst asked who would approve the text for the ads. Lanzi responded that it would first be approved by staff and then brought before this Commission for its approval. Lanzi explained that staff would first contact the Hockey Association to see if they are interested and then the Figure Skating Club and Chamber of Commerce. The ads will be non-alcohol and tobacco related. Lambert explained that the City Council and staff are strongly opposed to advertising on park buildings and fences. However, it is difficult to pay for operating costs for the Community Center and this is a good way to generate $30,000 a year. This does not mean that they will support advertising outside of this building. Mackay asked if the City has any experience in selling advertising. Lambert said they do not sell any advertising right now, however, if they have to, they will hire professional sellers. They will first see what they can do. There are some professional sales people on the Hockey Association and City staff will look at programs of other facilities. PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION August 4, 2003 Page 12 Jacobus said it makes sense to do this if they can generate $30,000 to $40,000 a year. However, if they are only able to generate $5,000,he does not think the program would be worth it. Lanzi said that the Hockey Association is very confident that they will be able to sell these dasher boards. Larson said there appears to be some inconsistencies by allowing advertising here and not at the ball fields. Lambert pointed out that the rules are different for the Community Center. Jacobus asked if the Community Center would be able to continue to operate without this revenue. Lambert explained that if this request were approved with the condition that the revenue goes into a fund to make improvements needed at the Community Center, it would be worth pursuing. Motion: Jacobus moved, seconded by Gerst, to authorize staff to sell dasher board advertisement in the main rink at the Eden Prairie Community Center with the revenue to be used exclusively for improvements to the Community Center. Mackay asked if the motion should include a minimum as to the amount of revenue generated. If this were not met, they would not proceed with the program. Jacobus amended his motion to include that if a minimum of$15,000 of advertising were not sold, the program would not proceed. Gerst seconded the amended motion. Vote was called on the amended motion with all members present voting aye. The motion carried, 6-0. VII. ADJOURNMENT Motion: Mackay moved, Larson seconded, to adjourn the meeting. The motion carried 6-0. The meeting was adjourned at 9:15 p.m.