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Parks and Recreation - 02/03/2003 APPROVED MINUTES PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY, FEBRUARY 3, 2003 7:00 P.M. City Center Council Chambers COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Munna Yasiri, Chair(arrived at 7:05 p.m.); Rob Barrett(arrived at 7:05 p.m.), Jeffrey Gerst, David Larson, Bruce Schaepe, Trisha Swanson, Kim Teaver (arrived at 7:05 p.m.) and Philip Wright(left at 9:05 p.m.) COMMISSION MEMBERS ABSENT: Dick Brown STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Lauren Astry, Chris Shea and David Westphal COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: Bob Lambert, Director of Parks and Recreation Services; Stu Fox, Manager of Natural Resources, Beth DeGree, Aquatics and Fitness Coordinator and Carol Pelzel, Recording Secretary I. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL The meeting was called to order by Acting Chair Gerst at 7:00 p.m. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Motion: Schaepe moved, Wright seconded, to approve the agenda as published. The motion carried, 5-0. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES —January 6, 2003 Motion: Larson moved, Schaepe seconded, to approve the January 6, 2003, minutes as presented. The motion carried, 5-0. IV. OLD BUSINESS A. Request for Totlot Improvements at Round Lake Park Lambert explained that in 2002 the City removed the totlot structure located east of Atherton Way and west of Round Lake Park as it no longer met City safety guidelines. Shortly thereafter the City received a petition from a number of residents requesting the City to either replace the structure or improve the other totlot structure located approximately 400 yards north of the one that was removed. Lambert further explained that approximately 800 residents were notified of this meeting asking them to attend to present their input regarding this issue. PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION February 3, 2003 Page 2 Fox reviewed with the Commission the various playground equipment options available and the features of this site. He explained that this playground is located on the southwest side of Round Lake and is called the Heritage Playground. This equipment was originally installed in 1983. When a safety audit was completed in 1993, this playground was listed as the eighth worst out of 29 playgrounds in the City. Based on safety standard criteria, the playground being discussed would be for ages 5 to 12. In 2002 it was determined without neighborhood input to remove this playground equipment. City staff felt that new playground equipment placed at Round Lake could replace this playground since it is larger and has more exciting equipment. Staff is now recommending replacement of this park on the west side on a 24 foot by 30 foot area. The park would be age appropriate for 2 to 5 year olds. The City did receive a petition from neighbors requesting that the playground removed be replaced. Staff is recommending that they use the same location for the new playground based on neighborhood input. Fox pointed out that the budget allotment for this new playground is $10,000. They are proposing to double the space to add a swing component. Schaepe asked if the $10,000 budget includes labor to remove the old equipment and to put up the new equipment. Fox responded that the Park Maintenance staff would do the labor. Yasiri asked if the $10,000 comes from the Parks and Recreation budget or do they need to look for the money from somewhere else. Lambert explained that the City does budget $50,000 a year to be used to replace playground equipment. This year approximately $40,000 will be used at Franlo and $10,000 will be used for this site. They do try to expend the entire budget on materials,however, it does include money for the base of the playground which could include a drainage system. Barrett said the current playground is sand based and he asked if it would remain as sand. Fox answered that they will convert it to wood fiber. Sand is only good for equipment three-feet in height. Anything above that would require shredded wood products. Teaver asked if the totlot removed met safety standards. Fox said a safety audit was done on the equipment. This playground is not necessarily unsafe but had other problems. The City is building and spending money on playground equipment geared at much lower age groups than when they were first installed. Teaver asked how far the current totlot is from the $120,000 playground area. Fox said it is approximately one-half mile from this location. Lambert pointed out that the City attempts to have play facilities within a one-half mile radius of all homes. Mark Lindner, 7359 Hames Way, explained that his house is located right behind the totlot. When this playground was constructed, there were no homes in the area. No one in the neighborhood currently uses this playground. The area now used as a ball field. Lindner pointed out that there is no parking available and most of its usage is by high school students. He said he would like to see this playground moved away from the homes. It would make sense to move it back further where there is some shade rather then out in the PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION February 3, 2003 Page 3 open sun. As long as the City has to spend money to take up the sand,he suggested they place it somewhere where it is more convenient for everyone. Guy Vance, 7383 Hames Way, said he agreed with what Lindner said. He questioned whether or not this playground is being placed in the correct location to best serve the community. It is exposed to the hot sun and this does not seem to be the best location for it. Stacy Morgan, 7323 Hames Way, explained that she is home during the day and the only people she has seen use this facility is high school students. It is a gathering point for them and it is not being used by toddlers. The picnic table that was located at this site has been removed so there is no place for the parents to sit. The streets are also signed for no parking so people who use the park are not able to park their vehicles on the street. Morgan stated that with all of the other projects in the City, she said she feels the City could better spend their money. Susie Harvey, 7335 Hames Way, said this past summer she cleaned out four vodka bottles from behind the bushes at this location. This is an issue for the high school and it is a big problem. Harvey said she has called the Police on several occasions. She does not want to deprive children of the playground; however, there are very few children that use it. A huge issue is safety and also whether or not the playground aesthetically fits into the neighborhood. Barrett asked why they are proposing to rebuild this playground. Lambert explained that they received a petition from 70 or 80 people when this playground was taken out asking that it be replaced. They sent out notices to 800 people, and only eight residents came to the meeting to voice opposition to the location of this playground. Lambert asked if the neighbors in attendance have a better recommendation for the location of this playground. Lindner said there is a huge area on the west side of the lake with a bench and it is open but yet shaded. It would also be out of the view of the residents. Yasiri said one of the major issues is the high school kids using this location for illicit activity. If the playground is moved further out of site, it would only encourage more such activity. Westphal said he personally doesn't think location would deter or encourage the high school students from using this site as a gathering spot. He suggested they move it out of the site of the neighbors so they are not affected by the activities that go on at this location. Schaepe said he has had soccer practice at this location and the mosquitoes are terrible in that corner. Fox pointed out that this corner is used for the fourth of July fireworks display and if it is used to locate the playground they would have to find a different location for the fireworks. Fox also pointed out that this is a blind corner for people riding bicycles. Lambert asked what the Commission preferred. He asked if staff should do nothing or if they should look for a different location on the west side of the lake. Teaver asked if the playground could be placed further north. Fox said there is an exercise station at that location. Yasiri pointed out that should this totlot be replaced at the existing location or PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION February 3, 2003 Page 4 closer to the lake or High School, more parents and children will use this facility and may discourage High School students from hanging out there. Lambert said he found it interesting that not one person that signed the petition requesting replacement of this totlot was in attendance at this meeting. Yasiri asked if it would be possible to entertain a motion to convene a small group of neighbors that live in that area to work out some type of option as to the placement of this totlot that is agreeable to all parties. Lambert said he would not be in favor of that idea. He said he feels they simply have to notify the entire neighborhood again and not just a few people. This totlot does affect the entire neighborhood. Lambert suggested that staff try to find a better location and to renotify the neighborhood based on the input from this meeting and from the neighbors requesting that the playground be relocated. Swanson asked if there would be any additional costs for relocating this playground. Lambert said no because it would be done in-house. Motion: Barrett moved, seconded by Gerst, to direct staff to find a better location for the totlot that is a more appropriate site. The motion carried, 8-0. An unidentified member of the audience said he was concerned about the option of having the playground located on the other side of the trees. There are so many different high school sport groups that use this site for alternative training. The number of high school kids using the site out weighs the number of kids using it for a totlot. V. OLD BUSINESS A. Round Lake Water Ouality Report and Recommendations for 2003 Lambert reported that a couple of years ago City staff recommended trying a three-year experiment with a company called Greener Pastures to attempt to improve the water quality at Round Lake. The Watershed District was not in favor of their process because it was not scientifically proven to work. It took two years to get approval to use a product called Clarify to biologically reduce the availability of nutrients in the lake. This product appeared to work successfully in small ponds. There have been different opinions on whether or not this procedure has been successful. The City decided it was worth a try for an approximate cost of$40,000 per year. The City entered into a contract with Greener Pastures to pay them$20,000 for the first year and if they could bring the trophic index to 48 that year the City would pay then an additional $20,000. The first year of the application was a very dry year and it was brought to 47. Last year was a very rainy year and the trophic index rose to 56. Lambert explained that this will be the third year of the experiment and the contract is for$35,000; a $20,000 down payment at the beginning of the year with a $15,000 payment at the end of the year provided the average trophic state index was 48 or less. At the end of this year the City will decide if they should continue this process. If this treatment does work, staff will recommend doing it in some other lakes as well. PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION February 3, 2003 Page 5 Barrett asked if this is unrelated to the fecal problem. Lambert responded that this addresses water quality and clarity while thefecal problem is goose management. If they are not able to do a better job managing the geese, it is all for naught in terms of operating the beach. The beach was closed because of the fecal coliform count. They will attempt to remove the geese in late June or early July. They are also looking at applying a chemical on the grass to deter the geese. Yasiri asked if staff has looked at any other solutions besides using Clarify or alum. Lambert explained that staff has met with park Limnologists from the University of Minnesota, the DNR and the Three-Rivers District to discuss options. Alum does work but it is extremely expensive and there does not appear to be any other filter system developed to accomplish what they are attempting to do. Schaepe pointed out that the 2000 community survey results showed that the third highest desire was to improve the water quality at Round Lake. This came in higher than renovating and expanding the Community Center and adding or building an actual water park. Schaepe said he feels this experiment has proven itself. The treatment was successful for one year but the second year it was not. If both years met their goal, it would be thought of as being successful. Schaepe said he feels the experiment has been successful in proving that this process does not work under all conditions. Schaepe said he would like to go on record as not supporting the third year of this treatment. He said he feels it is time to look ahead for something better. Schaepe indicated that there are a number of other things they need to be looking at to try to improve the water quality. In response to a question from Yasiri, Lambert explained that the on-going cost should they decided to continue with this process would be $30,000 to $35,000 a year. Schaepe said with regard to the alum treatment, the Watershed District does have money available to help pay for water improvements. The City needs to apply for these funds and have this project weighed against other needs. Lambert explained that the Watershed is responsible for a majority of the installation cost while the City would be responsible for the treatment which would cost$25,000 to $30,000. Yasiri asked if they decided to not go with the Clarify treatment,how long would it take to get some other type of treatment in place. Lambert responded that with all of the proper approvals, it would take at least a year to design a system and complete construction. Lambert said he is not sure the Watershed District has money allocated for this project. Yasiri said it appears that they would lose nothing by continuing with the Clarify treatment and starting discussions with the Watershed District for other treatments. Lambert said he would prefer not to start discussions until after it has been decided that the Clarify treatment is not working. Yasiri asked if they don't go forward with the Clarify treatment would there be three years with no treatment. Lambert said that was correct. Schaepe asked if the City has started plans for the retention pieces. Lambert said they have. The Watershed District did give the City a list of recommendations that included improving retention ponds, putting fish feeders in to increase the size of the sunfish and to put in a fishing pier. All of those things have been done as suggested by the Watershed with the exception of the alum treatment plan. PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION February 3, 2003 Page 6 Gertz asked if anything is going to be done with regards to controlling the geese. Lambert said that in addition to what they have done in the past, this year they would try spraying the grass a couple hundred feet away from the lake to deter the geese from using the lake. If they do not significantly improve the water quality of this lake and are not able to effectively manage the goose problem, there would be no point in keeping the beach open. The residents of Eden Prairie do not think this is a good place to swim. Last year the number of lifeguards outnumbered the swimmers on many occasions. Barrett questioned the $35,000 payment to Greener Pastures. He said the City may be able to help them get other jobs if this project is successful. Barrett said he feels the contractor should lower his price considerably. Lambert explained that the contractor does all of the work and he did discuss this with him. The contractor believes he is subsidizing the project at this price. Barrett pointed out that if no one is able to swim in this lake, $40,000 is a significant amount of money for an experiment. It appears to benefit the contractor more than the City. An unidentified member of the audience re-emphasized the goose issue. If the City treats one side of the lake, the geese will only move to the other side. The goose problem is there all year long. They need to treat both sides of the lake to deter the geese. Fox said the fecal coliform will disappear if they treat the beach areas. If the geese remain in the grass area there is less chance of the water being affected. Motion: Schaepe moved to cancel the 2003 Round Lake Water Quality Improvement Project using Clarify. The motion failed for lack of a second. Motion: Swanson moved, Gerst seconded, to accept the 2002 Round Lake Water Quality Monitoring Report and request for Riley-Purgatory-Bluff Creek Watershed District to authorize monitoring of Round Lake in 2003 for the third and final year of the Round Lake Water Quality Improvement Project. The motion carried, 6-1-1 with Schaepe voting no and Larson abstaining. Larson said he abstained because all they can do is hope for an average year. Also, they will have this data but will still have a goose problem. Larson said he would like to see some time line on what the City is going to do and how they will go about it to correct the goose problem. B. Recommendation to Reduce Lifeguard Hours at Round Lake Park Lambert explained that during the summer of 2002 it became obvious that residents of Eden Prairie did not believe that Round Lake is a desirable place to swim. Often the lifeguards outnumbered the swimmers. Staff is recommending reducing the hours that Round Lake beach is guarded during the summer of 2003 to 1:00 p.m. until 4:00 p.m. Swanson asked if lifeguards are not on duty, can the residents still swim at their own risk. Lambert said they can. Signs will be posted to indicate that. Gerst asked if a lifeguard is needed at all. Lambert said not legally but the City has always guarded the beaches. Barrett PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION February 3, 2003 Page 7 asked what the total cost is for the lifeguards for a summer. Lambert responded that it cost approximately $30,000 to $40,000 to operate Round Lake Beach. In response to a question from Barrett, Lambert explained that they are recommending this change now so that the new hours can be included in their summer brochure. The operation of Round Lake Beach can be brought back to this Commission in July. Motion: Larson moved, seconded by Wright, to reduce the number of hours per day that Round Lake Beach is guarded during the summer of 2003 to 1:00 p.m. until 4:00 p.m. VI. NEW BUSINESS A. Open Swim Time Chance Request DeGree explained that staff is recommending discontinuing open swim at the Community Center Saturday evenings from 7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. The last three-month's revenues for the open swim time average $13.50 per Saturday with expenses at approximately $45 per Saturday. This exceeds the City's subsidy level of 50 percent. DeGree further explained that if the recommendation is approved, there are still several options for open swim available to residents at Oak Point and at the Community Center. Staff will pursue other cost-effective solutions to utilize the pool Saturday evenings between 7:00 p.m. and 9:00 p.m. Swanson asked if staff has any idea why the participation numbers are so low. Lambert said it is his opinion that people in this community have experienced other community centers which include a more exciting pool and not just a competitive swimming pool. Teaver said she has never seen any programs for swim events such as is done for the skate facilities. She suggested that staff look into this for these Saturday times. Larson asked if this recommendation is approved, would sufficient notice of the new hours be given to the residents. DeGree responded that they are proposing to include these new hours in their new schedule that will come out April 1. The new schedule will also be posted at the Community Center. Motion: Wright moved, seconded by Larson, to discontinue open swim at the Community Center Saturday evenings from 7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. The motion carried, 8-0. B. Trail Construction Priority Projects for 2003 Lambert reported that every year the City budgets $125,000 for trail construction and repair. The City generally has over$3 million of trail construction and repair projects on the proposed schedule. Staff attempts to prioritize projects using the trail system valuation chart and recommendations from the maintenance staff regarding critical maintenance projects that must be completed immediately for safety reasons. Included with the Commission's agenda was a proposed schedule for the trail projects identified for 2003. PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION February 3, 2003 Page 8 Swanson asked if mile markers would be added to the upgraded trails. Lambert explained that the only place they add mile markers is around a lake. On transportation trails it is difficult to determine where people come on and off the trails. Motion: Larson moved, Gerst seconded, to recommend the proposed schedule for the trail projects identified for 2003, including: A. County Road 1 from Staring Lane to Staring Lake Parkway B. Trail to Bryant Lake Park from Bryant Lake Drive C. Crestwood Park Trail Connection D. Purgatory Creek Recreation Area Trail E. Birch Island Woods Parking Lot and Trail Improvement F. Rice Marsh Lake Trail Connection G. Edenvale Boulevard Trail Improvements H. Andersons Lakes Parkway Trail from Franlo Road West to the Underpass The motion carried, 8-0. C. Proposed Amendment to Chapter 9 of the City Code Restricting Use of Dangerous Weapons Lambert explained that staff is requesting a change to the Park Use Ordinance that would restrict paint guns from City parks. When this law was challenged, the Police and City Attorney felt the existing language of the ordinance did not include paint ball guns. Staff feels that paint ball courts are not appropriate uses in City parks. (Larson left at 9:05 p.m.) Westphal stated that occasionally he and his friends use the park facilities for paint ball. He asked that the City consider creating a designated area for paint ball. He said they are aware of the public's concern for people in camouflage running in the parks carrying paint guns. If an area is designated for paint ball, many of these concerns could be addressed. Lambert pointed out that a paint ball park would require a large amount of space which would have to be designated for that use. This would be similar to an off-leash dog park. Lambert suggested that Westphal get a group of people together to present a proposal to this Commission. This proposal should include a plan and a possible location. Westphal asked if this ordinance also prohibits the use of air soft guns in the parks. Lambert said they should be included. The amended ordinance does include air or gas weapons. Lambert suggested that they include spring loaded guns to Section 2 of the ordinance as well. Motion: Gerst moved, seconded by Larson, to approve the first reading of an ordinance amending City Code Chapter 9 by amending Section 9.04 relating to rules and regulations governing public parks. The motion carried, 7-0. PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION February 3, 2003 Page 9 Shea asked if a particular site in the City could be used as a paint ball park. Lambert pointed out that it must be City owned property. He should consider proposing an area to staff and the Commission for consideration if he has an area in mind. D. Commission Terms Lambert explained that five Commission member's terms are completed as of March 31, 2003. He asked that members interested in reappointment complete the blue sheet that was provided to them and turn it in no later than February 6. VII. ADJOURNMENT Motion: Gerst moved, Barrett seconded, to adjourn the meeting. The meeting was adjourned at 9:10 p.m. The motion carried 7-0.