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Parks and Recreation - 01/05/2004 APPROVED MINUTES PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION MONDAY,JANUARY 5, 2004 7:00 PM, CITY CENTER Council Chamber 8080 Mitchell Road COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT: Rob Barrett, Chair; Jeffrey Gerst, Vice Chair; John Brill, Tom Crain, Randy Jacobus, David Larson, Ian Mackay and Michael Moriarity COMMISSION MEMBER ABSENT: Bruce Schaepe COMMISSION STAFF PRESENT: Bob Lambert, Director of Parks and Recreation Services; and Carol Pelzel, Recording Secretary STUDENT REPRESENTATIVES: Rachel Giertz, Cole Johnson and Chris Shea I. CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL The meeting was called to order by Chair Barrett at 7:05 p.m. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA Motion: Larson moved, seconded by Jacobus, to approve the agenda as presented. The motion carried, 8-0. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES —December 1, 2003 Motion: Motion was made by Mackay, seconded by Jacobus, to approve the minutes as published. The motion carried, 7-0-1 with Barrett abstaining because of absence from that meeting. IV. REPORT OF CITY COUNCIL ACTION This item was held over to the end of the meeting. V. PETITIONS, REQUESTS AND COMMUNICATION A. Request from Baseball Association Mary Morgan, Baseball Association President, explained that the Association is attempting to establish a better baseball program by improving facilities with the Miller Park proposal. This proposed project has been in the works for approximately ten years. Last year they opened a concession building and found that the revenue from that project has enabled them to pursue their dreams. The proposed facility will include a covered viewing area that would PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION January 5, 2004 Page 2 be constructed over restrooms, a concession area and storage area at that field. The improvements would also include dugouts for players. The Baseball Association is asking for approximately $1 million for this project. The Eden Prairie Baseball Association has raised approximately $150,000 from the concession building and an anonymous donor has donated an additional $100,000. Morgan said the Baseball Association is asking the City for the additional funding that will be required to accomplish this project. Lambert stated that when they started discussing this project ten years ago, City staff felt it was a good project but had many other priorities. Approximately five years ago City staff suggested that the Association work with an architect to design the facility. They did use the same architect that the City uses, Del Erickson, and came up with the design presented this evening. With this proposal, there would be seating for approximately 600 people with the ability to add additional seating to the end of the bleachers. Lambert said City staff feels this facility would get a lot of use and would generate public interest in the baseball program. Lambert explained that$450,000 had been budgeted in the City's Capital Improvement Plan for 2008 and the Association is asking that the City move this funding up in the Plan. The Baseball Association is concerned that their leadership will change and they will lose the momentum for the completion of this proposal. Lambert said he is suggesting that if the City does decide to have a referendum, they consider including money to be set-aside for projects that have matching funds. The Softball Association, the Soccer Association and the Football Association all want improvements made at Miller Park. If there is seed money funded for projects such as this, they may be able to provide other facilities at other fields. Lambert said he would recommend that they consider adding $3 million to a possible referendum as money for incentives for organizations that want to raise money for acquisition of land, trail construction, etc. and to be used for matching grants. Lambert said he feels this would be a good incentive program to have in the community. Brill asked if the Baseball Association has looked at other ways to raise the necessary funds for this proposed project. For example, grants from the Minnesota Twins or corporate sponsors. Morgan said they have not at this time. This is their first step and a Board member is working on encompassing fund raising, sponsorships, etc. Barrett asked what the total cost is for the project. Lambert responded that the cost is approximately $1 million with an additional $170,000 for dugouts and fencing, an additional $207,000 for a gatehouse and concrete plaza that is fenced. It is estimated that the entire project would cost$1.4 million. Lambert explained that the Association has raised approximately $250,000 and is asking the City to move the $450,000 in the CIP up several years and that the remaining funding come from park fees or a referendum. Gerst asked why this item was not included in the City's recent community survey. Lambert explained that this proposal was not presented to the City until about two weeks ago while the survey was done about three months ago. Jacobus said it appears that the Baseball Association has a very aggressive board and it is obvious that they want to get something done. He asked if there wasn't something they could do to find other ways to fund this project. Lambert explained that the Commission does not have to decide this evening whether or not the City would match the funds for this project or PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION January 5, 2004 Page 3 from what budget the funding would come. He said the Commission could recommend to the City Council that they consider putting some funds aside in a referendum that would be used for park improvements that have matching funds from grants, donations, associations, etc. Then as the requests come in for the various projects they could look at how much money the City would have available for those projects and ask the organizations to raise the difference. Moriarity asked if it was necessary to build the dugouts at the same time the main portion of this project is built. Morgan responded that the dugouts would be part of the stadium, however, they could be constructed in a second phase. Moriarity pointed out that by waiting to build the dugouts,plaza and gatehouse they could save approximately $400,000. Lambert said the Association is willing to build this project in phases. It would probably take $1 million to build the basic structure. In response to a question from Moriarity, Morgan explained that funding is set aside each year for the Association's basic needs projects. Larson pointed out that this project will have seating for 600 and he questioned whether or not there would be adequate parking for this project. Lambert stated that there is a little over 900 parking spaces existing at Miller Park. Jacobus said he feels that one of the advantages of this project is that it would have City staff and the Athletic Association working closely together. The Association would be of assistance in designing such a facility because of their experience with baseball. Jacobus said he thinks it is a good idea to get everyone working together. Barrett said he would like to see strict guidelines established for the use of these matching funds. The organizations should be required to raise so much money before they can tap into this fund. Lambert explained that there would be plenty of time to establish guidelines. Also, it will be difficult for some organizations to raise a certain amount of funds. Each Association is so different and the facilities they may be requesting can also be very different. They may want to require a certain percentage of funding for a basic facility and require a higher percentage for more elaborate facilities. If this funding is included in a referendum they may have the opportunity to have something for everyone. If they have a referendum and have multiple questions for different things on it they are more unlikely to get any one of those questions passed. It has been almost 15 years since the City has had a referendum for park improvements. By adding $3 million or something like that on the referendum for park improvements it might get a wide support base. Moriarity said he is concerned that people may interpret it to mean that they have to raise half of the costs and he feels that this is something that should be clarified at a later time. Don Jacobson, 16440 Luther Way, said one of the things the Commission is missing out on is the revenue that will be generated at this facility. There will be a ticket booth at the plaza and with a capacity for 600 people they could possibly generate about$33,000 a year or $640,000 in 20 years. Jacobson said he is suggesting that they look at using the revenue stream for funding this project. Lambert said that is a good point and if the Association wants to fund the construction of the booth and fencing they can use the revenue generated from the games for paying for these projects over the years. PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION January 5, 2004 Page 4 Motion: Barrett moved, seconded by Mackay, to recommend that the City Council consider providing funds in an upcoming referendum for park improvements that would be available for constructing public recreational facilities such as park shelters, concessions,public restrooms and other improvements to the park system, and that are partially funded through significant private donations. The motion carried 8-0. Barrett said he recommends that they have strict guidelines for the use of these funds. Lambert said the amount of private funding required would also depend on the number of people served by the project and on the cost of the project. VI. OLD BUSINESS A. Request from Soccer Association Lambert reported that the Eden Prairie Soccer Association requested that the City adopt an ordinance that would not allow dogs at Flying Cloud athletic fields. This Commission asked Staff to contact the various other Associations that use the fields to see if they have an opinion on the banning of dogs. Lambert further reported that the Baseball Association disagreed with the request. They feel that if the existing ordinance were enforced there would not be a problem. The Football Association does not support the request and also feels the existing ordinance should be enforced. The Girls Athletic Association agrees with the request and the Lacrosse Association has no strong opinion either way. Lambert said Staff has had some discussion with the Park Rangers about enforcing the regulation better and they indicated that there is no way they can do that when there are so many participants at this one location. If the dog is on a leash and still jumps on another bystander, there is nothing that can be done. Lambert said this is not a good location for allowing dogs due to the number of people (spectators) crowded between fields. It is a different type of activity than a neighborhood park. Ken Bomben, 9260 Kalus Circle, said he is the Director of the Eden Prairie Soccer Association. He explained that their biggest issue is the number of participants in the program and there is not a lot of spare space. The distance between the fields is minimal and one dog can impact several fields. He pointed out that the baseball and football fields have sidelines and have much better control because the dogs are further away from the players. Bomben explained that the reason for their request is because in previous years they have had numerous complaints from the parents in the program that dogs were leaving messes on the fields and were disruptive to the soccer games. Mackay asked if it would be possible to restrict dogs from the soccer fields but not from the baseball or football fields. Lambert said that would be almost impossible to enforce. Jacobus said he agrees with Bomben. There are between 500 and 750 kids and parents crammed onto these fields. He asked if it would be possible to restrict dogs at certain times and have the Soccer Association manage the process. Lambert said Staff would not support that. They would end up with the same problem of the dogs defecating on the fields. It would be much easier to enforce an ordinance restricting dogs from these fields. Barrett asked if it would be possible for the Association to ask the parents to not bring their dogs to the soccer fields. PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION January 5, 2004 Page 5 Bomben responded that they have tried to do this through a letter for several years, however, this is not effective without the backing of a City ordinance. Mackay said he did not want to see a precedent set and that they would be expected to ban dogs from other parks. Larson said he personally does not see this as a trend. The City did move forward with an off leash area for dogs. Mackay said there should be a better way than adopting an ordinance to handle this problem. Brill said he also feels they are setting a precedent. The reasons for banning dogs are valid but he questioned whether or not they are valid enough to adopt an ordinance. Barrett said he too agrees that there is a problem but feels this remedy is rather extreme for a park that has a number of uses. Moriarity pointed out that it has many uses but is designed for athletic uses. Lambert explained that Flying Cloud is not designated as a "park" and is the only designated "athletic field" in the City. Every other facility in the City that has ball fields is a park. They have park trails and other recreational facilities and are used as neighborhood parks. The park serving the neighborhood for this area is Staring Lake. Lambert said Staff is not concerned about setting a precedent for a park use since this is the only athletic field in the City. Motion: Motion was made by Jacobus, seconded by Brill, because of the unique use of Flying Cloud Athletic Fields for youth athletic activities, to recommend the City designate "No Dogs Allowed" at Flying Cloud Athletic Fields beginning April 1, 2004. The Commission does not want to set a precedent but believes this is a good policy for Flying Cloud Athletic Fields, which is a single purpose facility. The motion carried, 7-1 with Barrett voting nay. B. Reservation Use of City Facilities Lambert reported that this item is a follow-up to a discussion with this Commission regarding the problem of the Athletic Associations subleasing the City's fields. City staff did meet with representatives of the Athletic Associations that utilize the outdoor facilities and talked about the facilities policy that was developed in 1977. This Commission did concur that the City should revise their fees to charge direct cost for tournaments and clinics and to follow the existing policy. It was also agreed that a better job should be done to communicate to the Associations what this policy is. Lambert said on a yearly basis the City would invite representatives from each Association to talk about policy issues and problems they have. Staff also recommended that the School District consider adopting a policy for the use of their fields and the subleasing of those fields similar to the City's. The School District is not ready to do that because their Staff has been directed to raise revenues to pay for their operational costs. Staff suggested that the next time the City and School Board meet they discuss the overuse of facilities and if the policy should be changed to make the most use of the facilities. Barrett asked if they have been able to stop the subleasing of the fields or if they have to regulate it more. Lambert responded that at this point there would be no subleasing taking place. All uses would to through the City first. Mackay asked if this policy includes the High PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION January 5, 2004 Page 6 School. Lambert said it does. The policy on use addresses adult and Eden Prairie users and use by the High School has the same rules. Mackay asked if the policy addresses the issue of the High School deciding to rest their fields and to use the City's fields instead. Lambert said the City would have to determine whether or not there are fields available for the High School to use. The High School does have priority use on ordinary use. If they needed additional fields because they are resting theirs, they would have to discuss this with the Commission to determine why and what is fair to the Associations. Moriarity asked if Crestwood comes on line in 2004, would there be an opportunity to rest a couple of fields. Lambert said he did not think that would be possible because of the lacrosse program beginning. The City will still be short of fields. If they are able to expand the Flying Cloud athletic fields they should be able to take out two fields a year to rest and work on. Motion: Motion was made by Gerst, seconded by Brill, to support the increase in facility use fees for 2004 and for staff to meet with representatives from each of the athletic associations that utilize outdoor fields on an annual basis to discuss the facility use policy and association needs. The motion carried, 8-0. VII. NEW BUSINESS VIII. REPORTS OF STAFF A. Director of Parks and Recreation Services 1. Discussion rmardins!Referendum Lambert explained that discussion has been held regarding the various surveys that have been conducted over the years. These surveys have given them a trend on how the residents change their minds. This Commission and City Council do know more than the general public because they have received more information on where the City is and what the City's needs are and they may make decisions that initially go against the recent telephone survey. The 2001 survey showed that the residents wanted an outdoor waterpark, 18-hole golf course and the expansion of bike and nature trails. The 2003 survey showed less support for an outdoor pool with more support for the repair of the indoor pool and additional trails and land. This Commission must now think about what the highest priority should be and what the City can afford. The Commission must decide how much they want to recommend to the City Council to be included in the proposed referendum. They also need to consider improvements to the Community Center and whether or not they ask for everything recommended by the Task Force or if that should be pared down and done in phases. The City Council has indicated that they would like the referendum to be held on May 11. This would require that all of the information be ready by March 2. Lambert said they might want to consider$6 to $7 million for the pool and $6 million for the Community Center renovation. If additional funds are required they may have to find them from somewhere else. The recommended amount by the Task Forces for the Community Center and outdoor waterpark is $16.5 million. Moriarity PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION January 5, 2004 Page 7 asked if this amount includes the baseball fields. Lambert said it does not replace the softball fields but does relocate the baseball field by the Community Center. Lambert stated that a joint meeting with the City Council and this Commission is scheduled for January 20 to discuss these very issues. They will be discussing dollar amounts and priority. The Commission should also think about whether or not there should be a single question or multiple questions. Barrett said he feels this Commission and the City Council need to look out into the future. These improvements will be here for 25 to 30 years and they need to do them right. Barrett said they need to come in strong with a recommendation and there should only be one question. Brill said they need to educate the public. They may also want to have neighborhood meetings. Lambert pointed out that the City Council has a responsibility to allow the residents the opportunity to decide if they want these facilities. It is their not responsibility to encourage the residents on how to vote but to give them the facts. The Parks Commission as citizens can go out and urge the residents to support the referendum. Mackay said he feels the City Council needs to be behind this referendum and they need to support it to make it happen. Crain said he feels they need to keep the questions simple and not be so specific. If the citizens can see that these projects are for additional opportunities for their children they will be in favor of the referendum. People will support it if they know that the improvements are needed and will cost a certain dollar amount. They need to trust the City Council and Park Commission and the process. The simplicity factor of the question is where it is at. Lambert said he would be distributing a memorandum to the City Council presenting the information that has been gathered over the years regarding this referendum. He asked that the Commission continue thinking about this and that they be prepared to discuss with the City Council a dollar amount for the referendum. Jacobus said he is concerned with the fact that they have needs and that they have wants. They definitely need some additional fields or ways to keep the fields healthy. The Community Center also needs to be renovated. Jacobus said he considers an outdoor pool a want. He said he is concerned that if all of these requests are put under one question resulting in a $20 million referendum they may all get turned down and their needs will not be funded. He asked if they want to risk the needs for the wants with one question. Mackay said he thinks they do have to be clear and they may need to be more specific. If the needs do not get approved, there must be other alternatives for funding them. Lambert said the only other revenue available would be from the General Fund reserves. Crain said it all comes down to a good education process. Jacobus said he thinks it would be easier to pass a$15 million referendum for things that are needs. It would be more difficult to pass a $25 million referendum that includes a $14 million waterpark. Barrett pointed out that the waterpark and Community Center are kind of the same thing. You can't build a waterpark without updating the Community Center. You can update the Community Center without a waterpark. Barrett asked that once a decision is made on the PARKS, RECREATION AND NATURAL RESOURCES COMMISSION January 5, 2004 Page 8 amount of the referendum and how it is presented, all Commission members abide by that decision and support it. Lambert pointed out that since 1995 a significant higher number of people in this community would support an outdoor pool much more than additional ball fields. Jacobus said if they understood why ball fields were needed they might change their opinion. It is this Commission's responsibility to inform the City Council on what is needed, what is wanted and where the City should go from here. Gerst said he has served on both the Community Center and pool task forces and feels they were good recommendations. However, they both could be scaled back and done in phases. Barrett said it is difficult to add on to a facility once it is completed. 2. The Greening of Chicago—Article by George F. Will Lambert explained that this article was included in the Commission's agenda material for their information. He said he hoped this article would provide the Commissioners with an example of other cities that feel investment in open space,parks and in flowers is critical to maintaining the quality of life to the City's residents. 3. Terms of Office Lambert reminded the Board that Schaepe, Larson, Moriarity and Gerst's terms on the Commission are up in March. He asked that if these members are interested they could complete an application in January. Candidate interviews will be held on February 24 with appointments made on March 2. Lambert expressed his appreciation to the Board for all of the work they have done. 4. Report of City Council Action Lambert reported that the City Council did approve the EFE Interpretative Trails as recommended by the Commission. The City Council will be considering the award of bids for the bridge in the Purgatory Creek project with the Jean Harris memorial added as an alternate. VII. ADJOURNMENT Motion: Jacobus moved, Brill seconded, to adjourn the meeting. The motion carried 7-0. The meeting was adjourned at 9:45 p.m.