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Conservation Commission - 07/10/2007 APPROVED MINUTES CONSERVATION COMMISSION TUESDAY,JULY 10, 2007 7:00 PM, CITY CENTER 8080 Mitchell Road, Eden Prairie, MN Prairie Room COMMISSION MEMBERS: Eapen Chacko (Chair), David Seymour(Vice Chair), Ray Daniels, Laura Jester, Rita Krocak, Geneva MacMillan, Jan Mosman CITY STAFF: Leslie A. Stovring, Staff Liaison Janice Curielli, Recording Secretary I. ROLL CALL Chair Chacko called the meeting to order at 7:00 PM. Leslie Stovring was absent due to illness. Commissioners Daniels and Mosman arrived late. II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA MOTION: Krocak moved, seconded by Jester, to approve the agenda. Motion carried 4-0. Mosman arrived at 7:04 PM. III. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. June 12, 2007 MOTION: Jester moved, seconded by Krocak, to approve the minutes of the June 12, 2007 meeting as published. Motion carried 5-0. Daniels arrived at 7:07 PM. IV. REPORTS FROM STAFF A. 20-40-15 Program Review/Presentation by Staff Ed Sorenson, Coordinator of the 20-40-15 Program, said the program had been initiated, with a decision to hire a project consultant. The last interview of consultant candidates was held yesterday. Chacko asked when the action recommendations would be presented. Paul Sticha, Facilities Manager, thought it would be fall or winter of this year. Sticha said they have already completed some of the items and have identified about six projects, all of which will require funding. Sorenson said they are looking for guidance from the Conservation Commission. Projects with long payback times might still be chosen for implementation because the City decided it was the "right thing to do." Eden Prairie Conservation Commission July 10, 2007 Page 2 Krocak asked if we could get funding from the state for the program. Sorenson said some of the costs might be recouped. Sticha cited easy opportunities for savings, such as turning off lights sooner and setting back air conditioner and heating systems, but the really big opportunities will take significant dollars. Sticha said the team will get together and make a final decision on the consultant. He said some of them are very traditional, some are more creative, and some would help get financing, primarily through rebates and grants. There was an extended discussion of Minnesota Statute 471.345, the Uniform Municipal Contracting Law, and how it might affect the choice of a consultant. Sticha had received proposals from a select group of traditional, fee-for-service consulting firms with experience in energy efficiency projects. Alternatively, Subd. 13 of the law created a separate category for projects in which the vendors were able to guarantee cost savings to the municipality which offset project costs over a certain time period. Use of traditional consultants might involve cash expenses that would require funding. Sticha felt that either of two of the candidate firms offered a strong track record and depth of experience. Using a qualified vendor under Subd. 13 would require less upfront outlays, with the vendors potentially providing financing as part of the package. Sticha expressed concern about product selection bias in these cases. Chacko said that the staff should be able to project out the net costs between the alternatives and correct for product selection bias, since prices for the components were well known. Commissioners asked to be involved in the continuing evolution of this process. Sticha said we are at the beginning of the planning phase which is the first of three phases. We have contacted both Excel and CenterPoint for energy audits, but these generally address the easier to achieve savings, and don't address potential benefits from solar or wind. He said the audits may be helpful, but consultants will do all that and more. Sticha said we have identified a few dozen projects that will pay back in a certain length of time and will cost approximately $500,000-$1,000,000. Those items were listed in our CFP,but the consultant will identify more projects. Mosman asked if the high cost for geothermal is because it is a new concept. Sticha said they had heard there was a payback of 15 years and were surprised at the high costs, but they double checked and found the costs are so high because the site is virtually all clay soil. Sticha said solar panels have a 40-50 year payback, so those would have to be done because someone decided it was the right thing to do. Chacko was surprised at the 40-year payback for geothermal, and asked if there are any better sites for that kind of experiment. Sticha said it would have to be a retrofit and they would have to do a study. Mosman asked if a retrofit would be more Eden Prairie Conservation Commission July 10, 2007 Page 3 expensive. Sticha said it generally is. Mosman asked about the costs of doing geothermal for residential property. Sticha said the payback would be shorter for residential property. Daniels asked if Fire Station 4 has been built. Sticha said it is completed but is not officially turned over to the City. Daniels asked if there are any others in the planning stage. Sticha replied that will likely be the last one. He said a piece of the Community Center remodel was increased to accept a green roof, but it was above the amount allocated by the City Council. Traditional roofs last about ten years, so you would need 15-20 years of history before you know what happens with green roofs. Mosman said part of the program regarding green roofs might be to state that we are going to study what the maintenance costs are. Sticha said there are very few of them in the U.S. that have been in place for more than 5-7 years. Mosman noted the consultant with Kestrel Design talked about green roofs, and she thought it would be good to have a couple of articles on them in order to show we are thinking about it but are not ready to spend that kind of money. Chacko asked where they are in the selection process and how that will play out. Sticha said they had a small committee that interviewed the groups and that committee will get back together to discuss the interview results. Chacko asked about the time frame. Sticha said they are just in the middle of our budget season,but it should be 30 days or less. Chacko asked if they will make a recommendation to the City Council at that time. Sticha thought they would have to go through the Council. Chacko reiterated he would like to see the costs and benefits of both traditional and 471.345 financing. Cliff Cracauer, Public Works Supervisor in charge of fleets, said last year's cost for the City fleet was $318,000. The City will peak out the fleet at 300 vehicles that consume fuel. They use 2% biodiesel, per the state mandate. He said most of the alternatives have infrastructure costs. They are looking at a 40% fuel efficiency increase and getting away from petroleum-based products. Chacko asked how the various City departments rate in terms of miles driven. Cracauer said the single largest user is the Police Department at about 600,000 miles per year. Two or three years ago they did an experiment where vehicles were turned off when they were outside the police station. He said best practices will be the most effective tool for energy savings in this area. Chacko then asked if that is reflected in the baseline. Cracauer replied that some of it is. Cracauer said they have remote starts in most of the Fire and Public Works vehicles. Public Works is the second highest department in terms of mileage, and it has more vehicles than any other department. It looks like they have reasonable uses for hybrid vehicles even though those cost more. They would provide those vehicles to an employee who drives at least 8,000 miles a year. Eden Prairie Conservation Commission July 10, 2007 Page 4 Chacko asked if there are any concessions on financing for hybrid vehicles. Sticha said we have one Ford Escape on order, and those get 31 MPG. They would be used by people who need high mileage vehicles and a 4X4. He said they have a lot of vehicles that run on E85, but there are issues with availability of E85 pumps, the effect on engine components, and the net reduction in greenhouse gas emissions. Mosman said she has a Prins and was wondering where small cars would fit into the picture. Cracauer said we have to base what we purchase on functionality for the users and the assessors are the ones who would use small vehicles; however, they do not drive enough to recover the costs. He said they looked at the Inspector Division where they drive 8-10,000 miles per year, so a Ford Escape might work for them. He said they can phase in additional diesel vehicles, but they have to get at least 75- 100,000 miles per vehicle to get their costs out. He thought a lot of the savings will be in different areas such as contracting for end-dump dump trucks that haul more and cost less than we spend on our own dump trucks. He said they are also looking at paying employees mileage to drive their own vehicles. Cracauer said they plan to work with Joyce Lorenz and the Communications Department and will ask City employees for their suggestions to save energy in order to help get their buy-in for the program. Mosman asked about government rebates similar to those offered to individuals to buy fuel efficient vehicles. Cracauer said those rebates were taken on the individual's income tax. Mosman thought the state and federal governments would want to encourage cities to use energy efficient vehicles. Cracauer said they could talk to the Finance Department about how we might get money back. Daniels asked how they buy vehicles. Cracauer said they get fleet pricing by paying a fee to be a member of the state contract. The state puts out an RFP, and all companies provide bids. There are fleet incentives and rebates through that program. He said they also buy tires and other products that way. Daniels asked if we have let the state and the companies know we want fuel efficient vehicles. He thought Ford, General Motors and others have not quite gotten the message about our wanting such vehicles. Cracauer said there is no political group advocating for that. Daniels thought we need to tell them we will buy an efficient vehicle if they build it. Chacko asked about the best management practices they use to achieve the goals. Cracauer said we have had fleet service guidelines for 15 years and have a computerized tracking system. He thought we could make improvements so people buy into it more. He noted there has been some new technology coming through such companies as EATON Char Lynn. Chacko thought it would be good for the City to have a demonstration of the new technology so we could advertise the effects of it. Chair Chacko recessed the Commission at 8:05 PM and reconvened at 8:10 PM. Chacko asked how the Commission would be able to keep a finger on the pulse of the project since we would be the source of reporting on the subject. Sorenson said they would like to keep information flowing both ways. Eden Prairie Conservation Commission July 10, 2007 Page 5 Daniels asked if they have tried to reduce gas usage for lawn mowing. They have considered reducing certain services to reduce costs, but are not certain how the public would react to such reductions. Jester thought there could be hidden savings that would have multiple benefits. She thought we should look at all of the ordinances and see where our savings could come from. Mosman noted the weed ordinance was meant to save water and resources. Jester said she was impressed by the work done by staff on this and was happy to see we are hiring a consultant. B. Commission Status/Discussion of Membership Chacko said that David Seymour resigned from the Commission. He understood Seymour's reasons, and felt that he had made a strong contribution to the Commission. He said there are other candidates who expressed interest at the interviews, and he will get in touch with them to see if they might still be interested in serving. C. Lawn Watering Program Status and Discussion This item was tabled due to Leslie Stovring's absence. V. REPORTS FROM COMMISSION MEMBERS Daniels said he attended the Roof Bloom workshop on June 26. The workshop was about green roofs on garages. He passed around a copy of the brochure he got at the workshop entitled Minnesota Green Roof Profile. He thought it would be good to encourage the building of a green roof somewhere in the City. Mosman asked if he could get more of the brochures to give to Paul Sticha and Ed Sorenson. Chacko thought we might want to follow up with another meeting in the fall since the landscape workshop was such a hit. Mosman thought it would have a good turnout if it were scheduled for sometime between September and early November. VI. OLD BUSINESS A. Change A Light Campaisn Update Chacko said he could use some help on project. He was not sure what will be involved but it is a big campaign. There will be a press release and photo opportunities, but he wasn't sure what else the City would want to do in terms of promoting the campaign. Jester asked what the time frame is. Chacko said it is the end of September. Jester suggested some kind of demonstration in the mall or elsewhere. Chacko said we would have to determine where and who would do it, but there is an opportunity here. Daniels said he could help with the campaign and noted there was a demonstration at the State Fair that showed the wattage for light bulbs. Chacko said he will send all the information to Stovring so she can distribute it. He would like to work on a plan at the next meeting. Eden Prairie Conservation Commission July 10, 2007 Page 6 Chacko noted it is the Commission's turn to report to the City Council at next week's meeting. Mosman thought it might be time to ask if we can propose ideas that are more imaginative and then provide a list of ideas that we would like to consider working on. A discussion followed regarding items to discuss with the Council and other Commissions. VII. NEW BUSINESS A. 20/40/15 Program—Discussion and assignment of tasks Mosman thought we should postpone discussion of how the Commission could help with the project to the next meeting. Chacko said commissioners should feel free to contact Ed Sorenson directly with their ideas. VIII. INFORMATIONAL MATERIALS /HANDOUTS /COMMUNICATIONS IX. UPCOMING EVENTS A. Nine Mile Creek Watershed District — Summer Education Event — Blue Lake Waste Water Treatment Plant Tour — RSVP to Kevin Bis!alke (952-835-2078) by July 2, 2007 B. Anderson Lakes Public Hearing — July 18, 2007 at 7 p.m. in the City Council Chambers C. Round Lake Public Hearing — July 25, 2007 at 7 p.m. in the City Council Chambers D. Nine Mile Creek Watershed District — Summer Education Event — Bats and Water Ouality— Site to be determined X. NEXT MEETING A. August 14, 2007 XI. ADJOURNMENT MOTION: Jester moved, seconded by Daniels, to adjourn. Motion carried 6-0. Chair Chacko adjourned the meeting at 9:00 p.m.