Planning Commission - 07/10/2000 APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE COMMUNITY PLANNING BOARD
MONDAY,JULY 10, 2000 7:00 p.m., CITY CENTER
Council Chambers
8080 Mitchell Road
BOARD MEMBERS: Ken Brooks, Kenneth E. Clinton,
Frantz Corneille, Randy Foote, Vicki
Koenig, Kathy Nelson, Susan Stock,
Ray Stoelting
STAFF MEMBERS: Krista Flemming, Planner I
Stu Fox, Manager of Parks and
Natural Resources
Mike Franzen, City Planner
Alan Gray, City Engineer
Scott Kipp, Senior Planner
Leslie Stovring, Environmental
Coordinator
Donald Uram, Community
Development/Financial Services
Director
I. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE—ROLL CALL
Vice Chair Stoelting called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Present:
Commissioners Brooks, Clinton, Foote, Koenig, Nelson, and Stoelting; Absent:
Stock; Staff: Fox, Franzen, Gray, Kipp, Uram.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION by Koenig second by Clinton to approve the agenda. Motion carried
7-0.
III. MINUTES
A. Minutes of the June 26, 2000 Planning Board
Foote noted that on page 5, in the 4h paragraph, the 3rd sentence should
read, "this is too far away from Market Center"; not"this is far away from
Market Center."
COMMUNITY PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
JULY 10, 2000
Page 2
Koenig noted on page 4 in the last sentence, it should read "Koenig said
the trees were saved in two plans but not in plan B." and on page 7 second
paragraph, the last sentence in the second paragraph should be clarified.
Franzen said that it could read, "Lake Idlewide is developed 30 percent
less than the maximum."
Stock said that on page 7, third from bottom it should read that she
suggested more glass in lieu of the punched windows.
MOTION by Clinton, second by Koenig to approve the June 26, 2000
Community Planning Board minutes as amended.
Motion carried, 6-1-0, abstention Nelson.
III. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. IDLEVIEW OFFICE PARK : by 78 h Street Properties, LLC. Request
for Planned Unit Development Concept Review on 1.21 acres, Planned
Unit Development District Review with waivers in the Office Zoning
District on 1.21 acres, and Site Plan Review on 1.21 acres. Location:
North of Eden Road on Lake Idlewilde.
Franzen said the board directed the staff and developer to make the
changes required to accommodate 66 parking spaces; the elevations were
revised to add the sloped metal roof and a larger windows, also conifer
instead of shade trees were added and a travel demand management plan
was created.
Vicky Vandal from Landform Engineering and 78 h Street Properties
presented the revised plans.
HTG Architects reviewed the changes to the architecture. They said the
smaller windows are now larger; and they added a sloped metal roof and
curved entry. They proposed a limestone base edge around the bottom and
passed around samples of the building material.
Clinton asked about the construction schedule and asked for clarification
on whether the developer had plans for grading the parking lot and
beginning construction after securing a tenant.
Vandal said the developer would put in the retaining wall and rough grade
and seed.
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Page 3
Stock asked about the smaller windows next to the main glass window on
the building alterations. She said it doesn't match the plans.
Bruce said the elevation shows the lower end having two windows
followed by singles going up; and that was correct.
Stock asked how much larger the windows were than previously.
Bruce said these are oversized at 8-10 inches above the floor. They are
nearly floor to ceiling windows.
Nelson asked about the setback on the south elevation.
Vandal said that from the road it is 17.5 feet.
Franzen said the setback from the lake is 90 feet. Staff and the developer
looked at ways to move further from lake. There was an opportunity to
move the building closer to the street so that there was a greater setback
from the lake. There is no housing across the street; this is appropriate in
an urban setting where it would not be appropriate in a residential area.
The trade-off is less individual impact on the lake.
Stock asked about the letter regarding foot traffic and how that was
addressed.
Gray said there were concerns about foot traffic crossing the street. If that
is a problem it could be addressed with installation of cross-walk striping.
Throughout this area there has not been a need for it but if it is necessary
in the future it can be addressed.
Foote asked whether Champps would use the property for overflow
parking.
Franzen said the developer presented to the staff that the building and
parking will be constructed simultaneously and that the owner may
consider a shared parking arrangement with Champps during the evening
hours.
Foote said if this happens staff should review whether a crosswalk and
striping should be added to the plans.
Franzen reviewed the staff recommendation for approval. An item D was
added indicating the developer will pay the appropriate cash park fee.
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JULY 10, 2000
Page 4
Foote inquired whether there was any means of enforcing the
transportation management plan.
Franzen said since this is new, staff was looking at the possibility of a
travel demand ordinance with financial incentives for compliance and
punitive damages for noncompliance. Right now the city is requiring a
letter of credit from the developer to implement the program. Staff can do
spot checks and talk with building owners.
Foote said he hoped the city would follow up to the check progress.
Clinton inquired whether there was a site distance problem with Eden
Road.
Gray said based on the speed limit there should not be a problem.
Nelson expressed concern that the building was too close to the road, even
the landscaping is going to have a visual impact and, consequently, will
not be supporting it.
Foote asked about the height of some of the other buildings.
Franzen said Homestead Village is 45 feet. This building is 44 feet. Others
are 20-24 feet in height.
Foote asked how close Homestead was to the lake.
Franzen said 50 feet at its closest point.
Brooks inquired about the setbacks proposed for this building.
Franzen said 90 feet from the high water mark; the ordinance is 200.
Brooks asked about the surrounding properties' setbacks.
Franzen said they varied from 30-50 feet depending on the project.
Brooks suggested it might lessen the impact to the site if the third floor
was eliminated and a larger two story be proposed.
Franzen said the building could expand east-west without moving closer to
the lake.
Koenig asked whether this would make it the same distance from the lake.
COMMUNITY PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
JULY 10, 2000
Page 5
Franzen said it would be the same distance if it were expanded east-west.
Koenig asked how this would affect the landscaping.
Franzen said it would affect landscaping around the foundation but not the
perimeter of the parking lot.
Clinton asked whether space for parking would be lost.
Franzen said no.
Brooks asked whether the developer has looked at two-story vs three-
story.
Vidal said the owner wants the three story; it is better economically. A two
story may be possible but is not desired by the owner.
Stock said the windows look disproportionate; two all the way up would
look better.
Bruce said there was a bathroom on one side and a stair going up the other
way. It would be difficult. There is an elevator mechanical room stair on
either side. Arrangements of windows are difficult in these areas. Two
windows would be hard but the developer would be willing to try to fit it
in.
Stock said the rest of the building should match the first floor.
Foote said he shared Nelson's concerns about the 17.5 front yard setback,
but if the developer went to a two-story the setback would remain the
same.
Franzen said they could eliminate some parking on the north side and put
it on the east side of the building. This would allow the building to be
shifted farther from the road, but closer to the lake.
Foote said the lake setback would be 73 instead of 90 and it would meet
35 setback in front. He said it was not really within the board's area to tell
the developer how many stories to build,but he was concerned with the
road setback.
Franzen said it was the staff recommendation to get the maximum setback
from the lake with the building as they could.
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JULY 10, 2000
Page 6
Koenig said 17.5 vs 25 is not much of a difference.
Brooks said it was relative to the visual impact.
Nelson said 17.5 foot setback is very close. With a three story really close
to the street it seems bigger. She said she would rather see parking around
the building than have it close to the road because of the visual impact. It
may detract from the whole area.
Franzen said if the board is comfortable with the three story building; the
setback from the road can be increased to meet code. The net result is a
building 23 feet leave as is the lake than any of the current structures.
Clinton said if the board is comfortable with the staff recommendation to
shift the building farther back, they should allow the developer and staff to
modify the plan prior to City Council review.
Franzen said the building can meet a 35 foot front yard setback and a 73
foot setback from the lake.
MOTION by Clinton second by Foote to close the public hearing. Motion
carried, 7-0.
MOTION by Clinton second by Foote to recommend to the Council for
approval of Idleview Office Park by 78 h Street Properties, LLC for
Planned Unit Development Concept Review on 1.21 acres, Planned Unit
Development District Review with waivers in the Office Zoning District
on 1.21 acres, and Site Plan Review on 1.21 acres, add item D that the
developer pay the Cash Park Fee, and instruct staff and developer to revise
the plans to change the front yard setback to 35 feet and the setback from
the lake at 73 feet. Motion carried, 7-0.
B. GRACE CHURCH by Grace Church. Request for Comprehensive Guide
Plan Change from Low Density Residential and Public Open Space to
Church on 10.3 acres, Planned Unit Development Concept Review on 63
acres, Planned Unit Development District Review with waivers on 63
acres, Zoning District Change from Rural to Public on 63 acres, Site Plan
Review on 63 acres, Preliminary Plat of 63 acres into one lot and road
right of way, and EAW Review on 63 acres. Location: South of Pioneer
trail, East of Eden Prairie Road, West of Spring Road.
Scott Kipp said the developer held an informal neighborhood meeting on
March 9, 2000, and a public information meeting before the Community
Planning Board on March 24, 2000. There were issues raised regarding
land use, landscaping , transition, and FAA height criteria. The developer
COMMUNITY PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
JULY 10, 2000
Page 7
worked with staff and provided a detailed traffic study, met FAA height
requirements including runway protection zone, berms, landscaping and
setbacks and relocated the parking deck farthest from residents and
completed an EAW.
Bob Sofelt, 10508 Bluff Road, Eden Prairie said BRW was contracted to
do the EAW and an archeological study. He provided a brief history of the
church, which was currently located at 53rd and France. There are 3500
people attending seven services; growth provided the demand for a new
facility. The church purchased the property three years ago and has spent
the past two years on design and function.
John Justus, Architect with HGA, explained the master plan of 600,000
square feet. The plan was broken down into six buildings. Phase I would
provide a large facility in the center. Phase II would include children's
ministries. To the west of the chapel there would be a food court, and
fellowship and banquet hall. The parking is on the flattest part of the site,
to the north and east of the plateau. Terrain is multilevel and there is a
walkout and garden level. There is a parking ramp at the furthest point
from residential along Spring. On the southwest part of the site there is a
NURP pond. There is berming and landscaping around the entire area.
There is site access from two entrances; one along Eden Prairie
Road/County Road 4, the second off Spring Road. There is a third access
at the south end of the parking ramp along Spring Road; this would serve
cars going toward the river valley. No access is proposed along Pioneer
Trail.
Justus reviewed the architecture. He said they were looking for a blend
with residential architecture. The slope roofed tops identify the other
buildings as separate from the main structure. The bays and curved roof
help break up the scale. There is a tower cross element that is 133 feet tall;
it meets FAA regulations and there is no need for a hazard light. The
tower is part of the master plan and not in Phase I. Its height is consistent
with religious institutions in Eden Prairie. The facility has a metal roof and
precast bands followed by brick. There is a rock face block base on the
walkout level.
Justus said there would be 1,800-2,000 parking stalls. Signage for the
church will be revised to meet code.
Foote asked about lighting of the cross tower and whether it would be
similar to Wooddale's.
Justus said that they haven't discussed this. He said it was unlikely the
tower would be illuminated.
COMMUNITY PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
JULY 10, 2000
Page 8
Clinton inquired about the noise reduction required as part of the Met
Council's guidelines for aircraft noise.
Justus said the church commissioned a study and collected data on what
type of decibel level and noise would take place. They have not processed
the data but have engaged an acoustical consultant. He said they will meet
the requirement.
Nelson asked about the cross on the worship center and whether it would
be illuminated.
Justus said there is one just above the chapel and it would not be
illuminated.
Nelson asked whether sports fields would be a part of phase I.
Justus said no.
Gary Fishbet of HGA said the landscaping meets code requirements, and
that five foot berms will be provided around the site to screen the parking.
Foote said the staff report says 100% tree removal primarily in future
phases. He said he wasn't sure why all the trees would have to go if only
half were in the building area; such as the trees between the NURP pond
and building.
Fishbet said they might fall outside of the building but are within the
grading limits.
Gray said from a drainage perspective, they need to ensure storm drainage
from the parking lot to the pond . This will be graded so the overflow does
not come into the building. The pond was designed for the 100 year storm.
Foote asked whether staff looked at trees and whether they were healthy.
Fox said there was a mixture of large cottonwoods,box elders, elms, and
ash.
Foote asked about significant trees such as oaks.
Fox said there were only six oaks on the site.
Sofelt said they had a letter in the packet from their consultant stating that
due to the age of trees they may not survive construction.
COMMUNITY PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
JULY 10, 2000
Page 9
Stock asked about the use of stucco and whether it was just for the area
that is being expanded on.
Justus said Phase I shows 13% stucco. Some is permanent such as that
located at the base of the worship space. In the master plan the percentage
is 4%.
Stock questioned whether the facility would also be used as a school.
Sofelt said there is no formal K-12 education on the site. There would be
Christian education for all ages. The rooms when called out as education
are for Christian education.
Kipp said the proposal is consistent with the comprehensive plan; there are
large setbacks with berms and a landscaping transition with road
improvements to accommodate the traffic. Church construction will be
timed with realignment of County Road 4. Staff supports height and
temporary stucco waivers but not the waivers for architectural precast
stone and signage. The board should consider whether the 10.3 acre guide
plan change was compatible with the area, the traffic study, and whether
the waivers are reasonable.
Nelson asked when is 212 going to be finished into Eden Prairie Road.
Gray said 212 out to Eden Prairie Road is under contract and scheduled to
be completed next summer.
Nelson asked approximately what percentage of attendees actually live in
Eden Prairie.
Sofelt said about 1/3 live west of 494; this includes Minnetonka and
Plymouth. The rest live elsewhere. The traffic study shows where the
people are coming from.
Nelson asked whether the traffic study also was done for weekdays.
Gray said yes.
Sofelt said the church's day care is quite small; there are less than 100
students He was unsure whether this would move to Eden Prairie. There is
Christian education for Junior and Senior High and approximately 700
kids attending on Wednesday evenings.
Gray said the study looked at a.m. and p.m. rush hours.
COMMUNITY PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
JULY 10, 2000
Page 10
Koenig asked about the memorandum from the Flying Cloud Airport
Advisory Commission.
Kipp said it provided a discussion on the closeness of the site in relation to
Flying Cound Airport and its proposed expansion. Because of its closeness
to the airport they think is not the best use for the property.
Clinton asked about the staff report and staff's reasoning for not
supporting architectural precast stone panels.
Franzen said prior to 1987 the city did not allow any aggregate panels.
Since then, the Wilson Learning Building, the 10400 building, and
Southwest Crossings have used precast aggregate panels. The issue is that
the precast panel needs to be comparable in grade and quality to natural
stone, and based on the information provided to staff at this time, we do
not believe the proposed precast is comparable in grade and quality. We
are willing to continue to discuss the precast and work with the church to
find a precast that is comparable in grade and quality. Another option
would be to eliminate it or use it as part of the 25% category.
Sofelt said they were willing to work with staff to select materials staff
was comfortable with. If more details or a different aggregate is needed,
that could be resolved.
Kipp said the project meets the Met Council's Land Use Compatibility
Guidelines for Aircraft Noise. But because the church is near the airport,
the church should educate its members regarding aircraft noise.
Clinton said he was concerned with the noise level at Flying Cloud.
Kipp said the increase in air traffic is close to the runway and safety zone.
This use is of concern with airport operation because of noise during
service. The church should educate its members on this.
Stock asked about the traffic study and how it related to the rest of the
week; most specifically the use of sports fields.
Gray said there is some traffic for ballfields but the impact is low. There is
more impact on the weekends with the road capacity. It is difficult to exit
the ballfields over there. He mentioned an additional signal by Staring
Lake Parkway. Those improvements will make it easier to get in and out.
Stock asked about the impact on property value of housing on the other
side.
COMMUNITY PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
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Franzen said the assessor considers existing and proposed uses of
surrounding property including the airport, Pioneer Trail, and CSAH 4
when determining market value.
Stock said this would be four times larger than Wooddale and expressed
concerns over lighting.
Franzen said 20 foot downcast lighting is proposed which is policy for
development near residential uses. There are larger berms and perimeter
screening. The plan will meet the one-half foot candle requirement. What
has been a practice for Wooddale and office developments is reduce
lighting at night.
Foote inquired about the traffic study on page 5, table 1, with the church in
2003;he asked about cars arriving early,but not leaving until 1:00 p.m.
Gray said it reflects the largest exit hour as 12-1 p.m. The analysis shows
a peak of 1,375 cars leaving. Many of the worshipers stay over for
religious education.
Foote asked what level of service does that generate.
Gray said level B and C. There is the possibility of intersection
improvements at Spring Road and County Road 1. This could work into
design improvements for Pioneer Trail.
Foote asked about improvements to County Road 4.
Gray said County Road 4 would be realigned by the time the church opens
and before the Pioneer Trail improvements.
Foote asked what if traffic reaches the max before 2010?
Gray said there would be some congestion; the worst would be weekdays.
Pioneer Trail and Eden Prairie Road is worse today than it will be when
Pioneer Trail is expanded in 2004/2005.
Koenig inquired about the proponent's alternative to parking deck.
Sofelt said initially the deck was on the north side of the property. It has
been located to the far southeast portion of the property.
Clinton asked about the parking opportunity and the nearby office
development.
COMMUNITY PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
JULY 10, 2000
Page 12
Sofelt said they have had discussions about the property directly to the
east about leasing but have not entered into discussions with the future
office development.
Koenig asked whether the parking deck had to be approved now.
Kipp said the board is reviewing the entire project now, including the
deck. With the parking deck in the southeast portion of the site, there is
very little view of the deck from Pioneer Trail.
Koenig asked how high would it be for the residential views.
Justus said it was 15 feet above grade on the north end and 900 feet from
Pioneer Trail.
Justus said it is an open deck one level on grade with a retaining wall
around it. It is a level and 1/2 or two levels on the north end. Spring Road
will have berming and planting and a retaining wall.
Kipp said Pioneer Trail is at an elevation of 891 or 892; the berm is
proposed at 901; the top level of the deck is 904 so it is three feet taller
than the berm height and 900 feet away from Pioneer Trail; it will blend
in.
Stoelting inquired about the entrance and exit for the parking ramp
structure.
Justus said it was a schematic design. They reviewed the concept of the
parking ramp with a consultant. There were two entrances and exits at
south end in and out off Spring Road; the lanes are parallel to the parking
and perpendicular to Spring Road; cars can enter the next level up from
the north entrance.
Stoelting said there was in and out traffic in the southeast corner and two
entrances into the parking ramp. He asked how traffic flows in and out.
Kipp said it would help traffic flow so cars entering the site can turn into
the parking deck at either entrance.
Koenig inquired about the noise generated from the church services and
music.
Kipp said this has not been a problem in the past.
COMMUNITY PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
JULY 10, 2000
Page 13
Justus said he had never heard of noise generated from a church impacting
the outside of a building. This worship center is surrounded by occupied
space; the rooms around are a good buffer .
Stock asked about the size of the building footprint for ADC.
Franzen said it was 1.2 million square feet for all four floors. He was
unsure of the exact building footprint.
Stock said here it is listing the footprint as 326,000 sf.
Franzen the church is not one square building, but rather a series of
buildings, which helps break up the scale. It is setback far from all roads;
this will help.
Stoelting asked for public comment.
Bob Shulte of 9072 Palmetto Drive directly north of Grace Church site
said it affects about 14 residents and 26 children. They support a church as
far as land use. They are concerned about its size related to traffic before
Pioneer is modified and the construction period. He asked about the
construction traffic on weekdays. With the stoplight at Mitchell and Eden
Prairie Road, traffic can't make the left turn onto Palmetto and traffic
typically goes around on the bike path to get by. He would like to see
some operational thoughts about traffic during the construction period. He
requested a berm and trees high enough so residents do not see parking lot
traffic. Residents would ask that the lights be shut off after midnight.
John Hanson of Hilltop Road west of Eden Prairie Road asked about the
northwest corner and whether it would remain residential.
Kipp said the church has acquired the property.
Foote asked whether the lights could be turned off at midnight.
Sofelt said they could be as long as it was not a problem with the police.
Nelson said they are rezoning 10 acres of residential to church; taxable to
nontaxable.
Kipp said only one acre is residential, nine acres is public open space.
Nelson asked whether there was other property that can be turned into
taxable land.
COMMUNITY PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
JULY 10, 2000
Page 14
Uram said this project would be taking 63 acres off the tax rolls. When
the land was purchased three years ago it was reflected in financial
projections even though it was tax exempt. It does not impact the city on
an overall basis long term.
Nelson said so taxes won't go up for other residents.
Uram said this is an issue of balance. The city had anticipated half of the
square footage for ADC. The city picked up 600,000 square feet of office/
industrial for that site.
Gray said staff can work with the developer during construction and look
at the materials/suppliers aggregate and concrete coming from the south so
construction traffic won't be on Pioneer Trail.
Foote asked about the dirt removal.
Gray said it was balanced. They can designate routes to mitigate potential
construction traffic. The problem is peak hours.
Stoelting asked about Highway 212 and any impact in constructibility of
212 and building County Road 4.
Gray said the legislature allocated 270 million for the metro area
congestion; this will accelerate metro area projects. A result could be the
extension of 212 through Eden Prairie earlier.
MOTION by Clinton, second by Foote to recommend to the City Council
approval of the Grace Church request for Comprehensive Guide Plan
Change from Low Density Residential and Public Open Space to Church
on 10.3 acres, Planned Unit Development Concept Review on 63 acres,
Planned Unit Development District Review with waivers on 63 acres,
Zoning District Change from Rural to Public on 63 acres, Site Plan
Review on 63 acres, Preliminary Plat of 63 acres into one lot and road
right of way, and EAW Review on 63 acres, based on plans dated June 23,
2000 and subject to the recommendations of the Staff Report dated July 7,
2000. Motion carried 6-1.
IV. PUBLIC MEETING
V. MEMBERS' REPORTS
VI. CONTINUING BUSINESS
COMMUNITY PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
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Page 15
VII. NEW BUSINESS
VIII. PLANNERS' REPORTS
Franzen passed out a form for life insurance to the board.
IX. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 9:45