Planning Commission - 04/09/2001 APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE COMMUNITY PLANNING BOARD
MONDAY,APRIL 9, 2001 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER
Council Chambers
8080 Mitchell Road
BOARD MEMBERS: Chair Frantz Corneille, Ken Brooks, Randy Foote,
Vicki Koenig, Kathy Nelson, Fred Seymour, Paul
Sodt, Susan Stock, Ray Stoelting
STAFF MEMBERS: Krista Flemming, Planner II
Stu Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural
Resources
Alan Gray, City Engineer
Scott Kipp, Senior Planner
Leslie Stovring, Environmental Coordinator
Donald Uram, Community Development/
Financial Services Director
I. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE—ROLL CALL
Chair Corneille called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Present: Commissioners
Corneille, Koenig, Nelson, Seymour, Sodt, Stoelting, Stock. Absent: Brooks and Foote
II. SWEARING IN OF NEW COMMUNITY BOARD MEMBERS
Fred Seymour and Paul Sodt were sworn in as members of the Community Planning
Board.
III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Motion by Stoelting, second by Stock to approve the agenda. Motion carried 7-0.
IV. MINUTES
A. February 26, 2001
Motion by Nelson, second by Stoelting to approve the minutes of the February 26,
2001 Community Planning Board. Motion carried 5-2-0 abstentions, Seymour and
Sodt.
B. March 26, 2001
Corneille noted a change to Item 413, times of the opening and closing of the public
hearing read 7:09 p.m. and 7:06 p.m. and should be changed. On page 6, the 6th
paragraph should address the location of MUSA and appropriate land uses.
Community Planning Board Minutes
April 9, 2001
Page 2
Motion by Stoelting, second by Stock to approve as amended. Motion carried, 4-3-0,
abstentions Nelson, Seymour, and Sodt.
V. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. BLUFF COUNTRY VILLAGE AMENDMENT by the Bluffs Company.
Request for Planned Unit Development Concept Amendment on 7.2 acres,
Planned Unit Development District Review on 7.2 acres, Zoning District
Amendment within the Neighborhood Commercial Zoning District on 4.0 acres,
Zoning District Change from rural to Neighborhood Commercial on 3.0 acres,
Site Plan Review on 7.2 acres, and Preliminary Plat on 7.2 acres into 5 lots.
Location: Pioneer Trail and Hennepin Town Road.
Brian Cluts, architect for project, showed the plan from the last meeting.
Decreasing tree loss to approved levels and improvement of transition were
accomplished with the revised plan. The live/work building and townhomes were
pulled 50 feet further back from Pioneer Trail. The transition was accomplished
by splitting the buildings and backing them up to the retail.
Franzen said the Planning Board continued the discussion at the March meeting,
directing the developer to reduce the tree loss and improve transition. Tree loss
has been reduced to 1,705 caliper inches. Staff recommends approval with the
addition of a roof over the top of the loading area because of the proximity to
townhomes.
Motion by Nelson, second by Koenig to close the public hearing. Motion carried,
7-0.
The public hearing closed at 7:11 p.m.
Stoelting thanked the proponent for revising the transition and reorienting the
building after the change to a 3-unit building. It is a much better design.
Nelson said it was a pleasure to work with a developer who returns to the
Planning Board with the issues addressed.
Motion by Stock, second by Stoelting to recommend approval of the request by
The Bluffs Company for a Planned Unit Development Concept Amendment on
7.2 acres, Planned Unit Development District Review on 7.2 acres, Zoning
District Amendment within the Neighborhood Commercial Zoning District on 4.0
acres, Zoning District Change from rural to Neighborhood Commercial on 3.0
acres, Site Plan Review on 7.2 acres, and Preliminary Plat on 7.2 acres into 5 lots
based on plans dated April 6, 2001, and subject to the recommendations of the
Staff Report dated April 9, 2001, to the City Council. Motion carried, 7-0.
Community Planning Board Minutes
April 9, 2001
Page 3
B. THE HERITAGE by Carlston, Inc. Request for Guide Plan Change from Low
Density Residential to Medium Density Residential on 23.05 acres, Planned Unit
Development Conept Review on 42.16 acres, Planned Unit Development district
Review with waivers on 42.16 acres, Zoning District Chage from Rural to R1-
13.5 Zoning District on 19.11 acres and from Rural to RM-6.5 Zoning district on
23.05 acres, Site Plan review on 23.05 acres, and Preliminary Plat of 42.16 acres
into 142 lots, 3 outlots, and right-of-way. Location: Dell Road and Pioneer Trail.
Dwight Jelle of Westwood Engineering introduced traffic engineer Allan
Klugman and Wayne Soujit, President for Ryland Homes. In area C, there was a
15% reduction in units. Area B will be one level executive townhomes. The
NURP pond was relocated. Addressing item C, he worked with Cedar Forest
Residents and purchased 19 acres of land for single family homes. There are 32
homes that will be priced at $400-$700,000 with 2.83 acres of wooded buffer, and
a conservation easement. He will be involved in every house built on the property.
Trails and walkways, natural berms, and specialized prairie restoration will be put
in place. Street naming will be after Eden Prairie residents. To address wetland
issues, they worked out mitigation and type, resulting in a change of road
location. They held a neighborhood meeting with Cedar Forest neighbors. Privacy
screening will benefit both properties; he hired a landscape architect to address
design, type, and size of trees. Design of the development is based on Braxton
Woods. Executive townouses will be $300-$400,00 for empty nesters. Along C,
two story townhomes will be from $250,000. There is an 8 foot berm to the rear.
The guide plan change provides more of a continuation of the surrounding area.
The overall density is 3.3 units per acre. Orrin Thompson property is at 4.4 units
per acre. The conservation easement and 1.6 acre NURP creates open space and a
visual setback. A variety of housing is covered, with an improved transportation
plan.
Franzen said the project was a change to the comprehensive plan. There are
reasons for changing the guide plan as listed in the staff report with this project.
Additional townhomes will not significantly affect the guide plan balance of
housing. The PUD creates a west-east transition from the existing medium density
residential to the existing single family homes. Wooded slope and stormwater
pond provide a natural buffer and internal transition. Existing roadways and
traffic signals can accommodate the proposed traffic. The Board should discuss
whether the change in land use is appropriate.
Diana Dunn of 9381 Cedar Hurst Road, said she is not familiar with the revised
project and would like a better understanding of the locations. She asked whether
the townhomes would be similar to the 8 —units built nearby.
Carlston said nearby units were priced from $200,000.
Dunn asked about the Oak Park Development.
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April 9, 2001
Page 4
Carlston stated those were priced from$160,000.
Dunn said she was concerned about multi-family developments and medium
density.
Corneille asked if her concern was density or quality.
Dunn said both and she would like to see it changed. There are variables with
wording with executive townhome versus twinhome and it is confusing. There are
30-40 single family followed by medium density. Braxton Woods was done well
but it is too dense. She is concerned about storm drainage; a compressor pumps
water and she can hear it.
Mike Wroblewski, 9360 Cedar Forest Road, Heritage Commissioner. He read
from the history of Eden Prairie, the first 100 years. There are 50,000 people
living in Eden Prairie. He questioned why the Board would approve the proposal
with the current density. An example of a bad decision by city would be
development of the Apple Orchard. He noted the current wildlife around Riley
Lake and suggested the open spaces are what drew people to Eden Prairie. Land
values are going up, housing is less affordable, and the environment is
degrading.
John Kierland, 17191 Cedar Crest Circle, thanked Mr. Carlson for stopping by his
home. His concern was the circle was rebuilt last year and his lawn was torn up.
He would like to know who would be responsible for fixing the front yards.
A resident of 17150 Cedar Crest Drive said her concern was the traffic on Pioneer
Trail. She has driven Pioneer Trail west to Chaska for 20 years. Traffic is already
bumper to bumper and a stoplight would not help.
Joanne Wroblewski, 9360 Cedar Forest Road, thanked the council for the
neighborhood meeting, and thanked developer. She is concerned with density
and units per acre and agrees that the Apple Orchard was a mistake. The overall
infrastructure impact should be considered. The city is nearly crippled by traffic.
Senior housing and multiple units need public transportation and that is not
available.
Kim Gunn, 17120 Cedar Crest Drive, lives across from the natural pond, said
they are the only residents that can view what is going up across from them. Their
concern is not density but when they agreed to have city sewer and water. The
single family home development will use the lift station they were assessed for.
Her concern is water and sewer access assessment divided among current
neighbors.
Community Planning Board Minutes
April 9, 2001
Page 5
Franzen read emails from Rick and Laura Beadle 17135 Valley Road, unable to
attend. They met with Scott Carlston and believes the project provides larger lots,
high quality homes, and acceptable density levels. Losing cul-de-sac is a negative
but overall they are happy with the project.
Franzen read an email from the Hartwigs at 17175 Valley Road, one of the
neighboring property owners, support the plan and were impressed with the
developer, neighborhood and individual meetings, and that privacy would be
maintained. They are comfortable with the project.
Corneille summarized issues of concern for neighbors as density and associated
impacts, infrastructure, traffic, and schools, density/quality and fairness of the
assessments for future homes versus existing. He asked staff for comments.
Alan Gray said the feasibility study was written in conjunction with the lift
station; the assessment is for the lift station and sanitary sewer along Cedar Crest
and Cedar Forest. The developer will share assessments.
Carlston said the definition of executive townhome is really for the empty nester.
Ryland product has good longevity and maintenance. Traffic on Pioneer is in the
traffic engineer's plans — future expansion will take place on Pioneer Trail. He
will be assessed as well for sewer and water, and trunk charges.
Dunn said they are each paying $20,000 and it was not fair for a developer to pay
only $100,000.
Gray clarified trunk assessments are $520 for each lot, or over $2,000 per unit,
just in trunks. Their assessment rates are higher than hers.
Motion by Stoelting, second by Nelson to close the public hearing. Motion
carried, 7-0.
The hearing closed at 8:08.
Nelson asked about the density on single level and the plan looking like a one —
bedroom.
Carlston said it offers one bedroom plus den, and two bedrooms now.
Nelson asked about the bedrooms for the two level townhomes.
Wayne Soujit, President for Ryland Homes, said each home is a three bedroom
with an optional finished basement of 1,750 - 1,850 sf.
Nelson asked whether the decks would go at all to the yard area.
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April 9, 2001
Page 6
Soujit said they offer stairs,but not all would like them because of security.
Nelson noted with 3-4 bedrooms, there may be children of varying ages. She
asked about open space for kids.
Soujit said they have built this project previously—it is constructed in Chaska and
Lakeville. It is mostly professionals. There is 60 feet distance between backs of
homes. No fences or encumbrances are allowed — green spaces are open for use
by all residents.
Nelson said there does not appear to be guest or street parking on Hackberry
Court. She asked whether this would create overflow parking problems on side
streets.
Dwight Jelle said the city parking ratio is .25, the parking is shared, each unit can
handle 9 cars, and has double and triple car garages.
Corneille asked the Board to discuss whether this is a compelling reason to
change the comprehensive guide plan.
Stoelting asked about the density of sites B & C and how it has changed.
Franzen said sites B & C were 5.5 units per acre. This is 4.4. Franzen added that
the 1982 guide plan envisioned a population of 60-120,000. Due to fewer people
per household, new environmental regulations and developers building lower
density, the population will be closer to 60,000. He added that if the southwest
area, which is the 1,500 acre MUSA line expansion, is developed low density
according to the guide plan, 3,750 single fmaily homes could be built. However,
due to the desire to save open space and minimize for impacts, the Southwest
Growth Strategy suggested 2,400 - 2,900 units and some multiple would be
allowed. This part of Eden Prairie when fully developed will be 40% open space
while the remainder of the community is 30%.
Koenig asked Franzen to explain density transfer to the audience as it relates to a
specific site transfer.
Franzen said density transfer is used to save site features; on the twinhome site the
twinhomes could have been the density of executive, being more spread out and
resulting in loss of trees.
Stock asked whether the school district was familiar with the guide plan, changes,
and densities.
Franzen said the city gives the school information about population every year.
Stock inquired about exterior materials.
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April 9, 2001
Page 7
Carlston said stone, stucco or brick on front elevations, and roof timberline. The
other three sides are maintenance-free siding.
Stoelting asked about Valley Road and the outcome of how, when, and where it
will go in.
Gray said Valley Road is being reconstructed as the street/utility work will be
done this year.
Koenig said the staff report noted commercial is not recommended. She asked
whether there would be enough commercial in the area to support the
development.
Franzen said at Dell Road and Linwood Court, but it has not been built. They are
waiting for 212 to go across the southern portion of the property. The Dell Road
service area covers this area below Pioneer Trail. A small amount of commercial
was originally proposed but the developer was unwilling to provide the required
buffers next to residential.
Koenig asked about the timeline for 212.
Gray said there isn't a schedule for the 212 extension.
Corneille asked about the priority timeline.
Carlston stated the development would proceed as one project.
Koenig asked about tree impacts and if there would be less tree loss at a lower
density.
Franzen said the roads take out most of the trees, so less density would not
necessarily save more trees.
Sodt expressed concern with traffic, whether the development could
accommodate a four lane or two lane increase of Pioneer Trail, and the impact on
the plan if it does increase.
Carlston noted setbacks are already set for future expansion.
Gray added the developer was dedicating additional right-of-way along Pioneer
Trail. Hennepin County will have room for four lane, median, and trails.
Stoelting asked about timeline and plans for expansion of Pioneer Trail.
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April 9, 2001
Page 8
Gray said about 5-7 years. Hennepin County is significantly behind in building
roadway capacity and should be more proactive on roads. County Road 4 should
have been done 10-12 years ago.
Nelson said the density partially depends on senior housing task force. The
southwest area of Eden Prairie is different than other areas — large homes or
multiple units. She does not see affordable housing at $160-$170 going in. She
likes the one level housing and will support the project because of senior housing.
Franzen said when interest rates were high the R1-9.5 zoning was created to allow
for affordable single family homes. However, the market demanded more
expensive homes as interest rates lowered and big houses were built on small lots.
Anywhere in the Twin Cities homes less than $250,000 are rare. There is a big
housing demand, sales prices are up and land supply is down. It is a regional
trend. There is a rift between the Met Council and homebuilders. Met Council is
accused of holding back the MUSA line expansion, thereby driving up housing
prices. He does not believe any houses will start at less than $225-$250.
Stoelting inquired about the proposed townhomes and the proponet's comment
about the style toward empty nesters. She questioned empty nesters moving into
property at$300-400,000.
Carlston said buyers of executive townhomes are mostly families who have lived
here for awhile. Some are from Settlers Ridge, or live in town with businesses.
Nelson commented the transition looks good. She likes the trees and green space.
Koenig likes green space and buffer along 4 with NURP.
Carlston said trees will be transplanted and used as buffers along Dell.
Koenig inquired whether transplanted trees are included in tree loss.
Carlston said they were not.
Corneille asked staff to address waivers, specifically lot 1 minimum footage
requirement.
Franzen noted waivers are minor and typical of most subdivisions.
Koenig asked whether tree loss could be brought down.
Fox said in multifamily not without removing units. Carlston, on the single
family, made considerable changes and brought it from 48% to 38% loss.
Koenig asked whether if there was lower density it would pose the same issues.
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April 9, 2001
Page 9
Fox noted there would be grading issues; the same area would be graded.
Wetlands and topography changes are balanced.
Motion by Stoelting second by Koenig to approve The Heritage by Carlston, Inc.
Request for Guide Plan Change from Low Density Residential to Medium
Density Residential on 23.05 acres, Planned Unit Development Conept Review on
42.16 acres, Planned Unit Development district Review with waivers on 42.16
acres, Zoning District Chage from Rural to R1-13.5 Zoning District on 19.11
acres and from Rural to RM-6.5 Zoning district on 23.05 acres, Site Plan review
on 23.05 acres, and Preliminary Plat of 42.16 acres into 142 lots, 3 outlots, and
right-of-way.
Nelson expressed concern with 8 units in a row; it is visually unappealing and
appears too dense.
Stock agreed with Nelson and said section C is too dense.
Corneille asked whether if there was lower density in C the Board would be more
comfortable.
Corneille called for a roll—call vote on the motion.
Motion failed, 5-2 - Nelson, no; Koenig, no; Seymour, no; Stoelting, yes; Stock,
no; Sodt, no; Corneille, yes.
Stock asked if C were changed to B would it change to lower density.
Franzen asked whether the concern was density or physical appearance.
Corneille said both. He suggested reducing density in section C.
Nelson said the Board should look at taking out a couple units and varying
building types.
Koenig asked whether Nelson would be comfortable with fewer units.
Sodt exited the meeting at 9:15 p.m.
Nelson suggested removal of 2-4 units.
Seymour asked the developer about Weidman Way and whether Horstfal was not
landlocked.
Gray explained there was a cross-access easement alternative access.
Community Planning Board Minutes
April 9, 2001
Page 10
Stoelting noted the comments were not overall density,but about area C.
Koenig questioned whether the density on C was similar to any existing
development, especially Pine Brook.
Franzen said Pine Brook on Andersen Lakes Parkway would be denser.
Corneille asked whether a reduction in density to area C would result in reduction
of density to the area.
Koenig asked whether Carlston would consider a reduction in C for more open
space and significant trees.
Carlston agreed.
Stock suggested 4 and 6 unit buildings instead of 6-8 in the middle.
Franzen indicated that a general direction to reduce density is difficult to respond
to and suggested that the Board consider a reduction in density to preserve trees
and add open space.
Motion by Stock, second by Koenig to reopen public hearing. Motion carried, 6-0.
The hearing reopened at 9:23 p.m.
Motion by Stoelting, second by Koenig to continue the hearing to May 14, 2001,
with the direction to add more open space, and save more significant trees in area
C by reducing the density in that area.
Carlston noted that the units went from 96 to 76, they then dropped it to 54 and
now the Board finds it unacceptable. He understood they were a couple units
away from being okay to proceed.
Motion carried, 6-0.
C. FLYING CLOUD BUSINESS PARK by Moen-Leur Construction. Request for
Comprehensive Guide Plan Change from Medium Density residential to
Industrial on 9 acres, Planned Unit Development Concept Review on 19.3 acres,
Planned Unit Development District Review with waivers on 19.3 acres, Zoning
District Change from Rural to the I-2 Zoning District on 19.3 acres, Site Plan
Review on 19.3 acres, and Preliminary Plat of 19.3 acres into 2 lots. Location:
Northwest Corner of Pioneer Trail and Flying Cloud Drive.
Brad Moen presented the site plan and architectrual elevations.
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April 9, 2001
Page 11
Franzen noted the primary issue for the Board was to discuss best use of property.
It is too small for mixed use and there is not enough area for transition. Staff
recommends approval.
A property owner at 9500 Flying Cloud Drive, spoke with developers and
expressed concerns with the impact to the property value and environment. The
location map in the handout appears to be on Eden Prairie Road and N Valley
View Road.
Stoelting asked about historical burial mentioned in staff report.
Franzen said if they discover a burial they are required to cease operation; the
state would visit the site, verify authenticity, preserve it on site or move it. There
is a procedure to follow.
Stock asked whether the requirements on digging would be different than normal
construction.
Franzen said they must strip layers of soil on areas specified by the state; the
remainder of the property would be unaffected.
Nelson said the change from medium density residential to industrial suits this
area. It is noisy and relatively commercial. She asked about types of companies.
Moen said computer and technical with showrooms, there is no assembly,
primarily office use.
Koenig expressed that she was okay with the guide plan change. She inquired
about land farther west on County Road 1 and zoning across from airport.
Franzen said it was low density residential and open space.
Koenig asked how this would affect development of property farther west.
Gray said when Pioneer Trail expands it will need right of way; this may have to
come from the park. The best use of land may be for Hennepin County to buy it.
A portion is in the clear zone—MAC needs some easements.
Koenig inquired about the distance from the Cummins-Grill House.
Fox indicated the driveway entrace to the left is the boundary.
Seymour asked about one entrance with the total parking and congestion.
Moen said it was not assembly, office use, and the state and county has restricted
the access to one location.
Community Planning Board Minutes
April 9, 2001
Page 12
Stoelting said he was comfortable with the guide plan change.
Stock concurred.
Koenig questioned tree loss of 49% ; it is high, but she is happy to see wetland
trees.
Motion by Stock, second by Koenig to close the hearing. Motion carried, 6-0.
Motion by Stock, second by Koenig to approve Flying Cloud Business Park by
Moen-Leur Construction. Request for Comprehensive Guide Plan Change from
Medium Density Residential to Industrial on 9 acres, Planned Unit Development
Concept Review on 19.3 acres, Planned Unit Development District Review with
waivers on 19.3 acres, Zoning District Change from Rural to the I-2 Zoning
District on 19.3 acres, Site Plan Review on 19.3 acres, and Preliminary Plat of
19.3 acres into 2 lots based on plans dated April 6, 2001, and subject to the
recommendations of the Staff Report dated April 9, 2001 to the City Council.
Motion carried, 6-0.
Koenig added she would like to see significant screening by the Cummins house.
Moen said that would be provided.
VI. MEMBERS' REPORTS
VII. CONTINUING BUSINESS
VIII. NEW BUSINESS
IX. PLANNERS' REPORTS
X. ADJOURNMENT
Motion by Stock, second by Koenig to adjourn. Motion carried, 6-0.
There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at10:15 p.m.