Planning Commission - 01/22/2001 APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE COMMUNITY PLANNING BOARD
MONDAY,JANUARY 22, 2001 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER
Council Chambers
8080 Mitchell Road
BOARD MEMBERS: Ken Brooks, Kenneth E. Clinton, Frantz
Corneille, Randy Foote, Vicki Koenig,
Kathy Nelson, Susan Stock, Ray Stoelting
STAFF MEMBERS: Krista Flemming, Planner I
Stu Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural
Resources
Alan Gray, City Engineer
I. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE—ROLL CALL
Chair Corneille called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Present: Chair Corneille,
Commissioners Clinton, Foote, Koenig, Stock, Stoelting and Nelson. Absent: Brooks.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Motion by Stoelting, second by Stock to approve the agenda. Motion carried 7-0.
III. MINUTES
A. December 11, 2001
Stock noted that the change she had requested should have been added to the
December 11 minutes regarding leaving before the Valley View Corporate Center
hearing.
Motion by Stoelting, second by Foote to approve the December 11, 2001 minutes as
amended. Motion carried, 5-2-0, abstentions Nelson and Corneille.
IV. INFORMATIONAL MEETINGS
A. BLUFF COUNTRY VILLAGE—2001 AMENDMENT by The Bluffs Company.
A proposed retail, restaurant, daycare, convenience gas, senior housing and
townhouse project. Location: Pioneer Trail and Hennepin Town Road.
Community Planning Board Minutes
January 22, 2001
Page 2
Wally Hustad, the developer, noted the amendments to the approved plan. At the
council meeting, the gas station and park and ride facility were moved from the
northwest site to the southern boundary along Pioneer Trail. The developer worked
with city staff and a traffic engineer to change the access. Council suggested senior
housing for the north side along the freeway. The problem with the plan approved by
Council was a change in traffic requirements, increasing the cost to the developer.
Moving the traffic signal and adding access lanes on the east side of the intersection
results in costs precluding placement of the gas station on the east side. The
developer would like to have it on the north side, on a 2 1/2 acre site with an 8 foot
berm for a transition. Another problem is a future redesign of the area because of
freeway changes with an overpass and different accesses. They would move 6
live/work units to the southern site. There was a suggestion of splitting the
commercial and having the senior building in that space, integrating the commercial.
Most neighborhood centers have restaurants and he does not understand why staff
would recommend against it.
Foote inquired about the right-in, right-out intersection and its purpose.
Hustad said that was the least cumbersome type of intersection; they did not realize
increased requirements for traffic flow were in place. The traffic light on Pioneer
would have to be moved as well as adjusting the medians. The road was designed for
commercial; the main access into the site is to the north.
Foote said the location of the access was not ideal, a good location for the gas station
would be in the corner.
Hustad said it was not feasible because of added costs.
Clinton asked about the concept of retail in front of senior housing.
Hustad said it would be a three story building; the retail would be on the same level
as the parking garage; the first level of housing above the garage would have a
garden design out over the retail.
Clinton asked whether they were comparing it to the 50th and France concept.
Hustad said at 66h and Lyndale there was a similar development.
Clinton asked for clarification of the relocation of the intersection.
Gray said two lanes of Hennepin Town Road would have to be reconfigured for the
through lane to become a turn lane. This would need to go across the intersection;
the intersection would have to be widened. The way Hennepin Town Road was
designed was for a commercial area; the second access to the north would be the
correct main intersection.
Community Planning Board Minutes
January 22, 2001
Page 3
Franzen stated he believed that the gas station was moved to the corner as a
recommendation by the Planning Commission, not the City Council. The Board
should note at what point the gas station changed from Walgreens to the corner.
The Board should discuss where the alternative uses should be best located on the
site and the amount of retail and housing units appropriate for the site that provide
the best transition to surrounding existing neighborhoods.
Staff recommends the following conditions for the amended plan:
■ Convenience gas remain in the approved location and road improvements to
Pioneer Trail and Hennepin Townline Road be made according to the approved
plan.
■ The daycare would have to be zoned office to preclude retail as an alternative use
in the future (it is not retail and not generating retail traffic) and should not be
included in the 50,000 square feet of commercial.
■ A 9,100 square foot restaurant is not appropriate because it is a regional use.
■ A 3,600 or 5,500 square foot restaurant is likely to be fast food and thus
inappropriate for neighborhood commercial area.
■ Park and ride site from the approved plan could be made into retail or housing.
■ Senior housing could be located on either side of Hennepin Townline Road. The
west location would be better because it is removed from the highway and
adjacent to open space and other housing.
■ The land east of Hennepin Townline Road could be daycare, general retail or
office.
■ Total retail should not exceed 50,000 square feet, including the existing
Walgreens building.
Clinton asked staff to explain the restaurant on Anderson Lake Road and its size.
Franzen said it is family style, about 4,000 square feet. McDonalds and Burger King
are slightly larger. Champp's is 10,000 square feet.
Bruce Webster, 9953 BalMoral Lane, said there was not approval of a gas station at
the northeast part of the development. It is more of a mega-gas facility and not a
small gas station. The neighborhood would find it objectionable because of noise,
lights, etc., and it would remove a large hill and trees, which screen the
neighborhood from 169. Exiting the gas station to go northbound 169 in its current
location it would send traffic south. Many cars utilize Hennepin Town Road as a
shortcut currently. The senior housing east of Hennepin Town Road was not
approved by council; it would provide another 10,000 square feet of retail. This
would flatten the sound barrier and oak trees. Franzen's recommendations are
appropriate. How should the land east of Hennepin Town Road be developed? It
should be senior housing without retail; a daycare would be fine. The staff report
Community Planning Board Minutes
January 22, 2001
Page 4
raises concerns against a large restaurant or fast food restaurant; a medium size
restaurant in lieu of a gas station, and a daycare would be more desirable.
Gary Johnson, Pioneer Trail, noted he is opposed to a large scale restaurant, and fast
food. He would like the height to be considered; the structure to his east on the
western edge is over 1/2 length of a football field and three stories high.
Stock asked Gray where he felt was the best location for the gas station.
Gray said it was the amount of traffic in and out, including access. It was designed to
happen further to the north. It could handle a fairly high amount of traffic in and out.
The southerly location is possible but expensive for road and signal construction.
Stoelting said he was confused about the right-in right out. The approved plan
appears to have a greater access with a turn lane from Hennepin Town Road into the
gas station.
Gray said it is not proposed as a right-in right-out, but a 3/4 access which would
require geometric changes and a signal revision at that location. It would still be a
compromised location.
Stoelting asked how the median would be modified.
Gray explained exhibit D shows a southbound right turn into Walgreens, and a
northbound into gas station. Out of the gas station,it would be a right turn only.
Franzen said the left turns prohibit cross access between Walgreens and the gas
station.
Nelson asked why a gas station would be essential in this location; there is one on
the Bloomington side going up Anderson Lakes Parkway. If it is too expensive in its
current location perhaps they have something else in mind for this location. A fast
food restaurant would have the same type of problems as a gas station.
Foote concurred with Nelson. The best spot for a gas station is in the north but it
generates too much traffic and would infringe on the neighbors. It would work on
the corner;he is still confused about the intersection and doesn't understand why a
full intersection wouldn't work. If it can't be on the corner he does not believe there
should be a gas station. It is too large for the area.
Stock said there was no complaints from the city about daycare as a proposed use.
She thinks it is a good use. It would be a matter of locating it.
Corneille said daycare in a neighborhood commercial area is an appropriate use.
Community Planning Board Minutes
January 22, 2001
Page 5
Stoelting said on the plan the daycare is at the intersection of Pioneer Trail and
Hennepin Town Road; to the west are live/work townhomes. He is wondering with
the approved plan, would there be a problem additing additional townhomes rather
than commercial/retail.
Franzen said if there was not a gas station on the corner, the property could be sliced
up according to approved proposed uses such as a large daycare or small daycare
with more housing.
Nelson asked whether this would cause difficulty for the school bus in dropping kids
off.
Corneille asked the Board to discuss a restaurant as a proposed use.
Foote said he would have similar concerns as with the gas station. If the primary site
entrance was north, cars would have to go through the parking lot and up and
around. There would not be sufficient parking to support a full-size restaurant such
as a Champp's. A smaller restaurant may work, more of a neighborhood restaurant.
Clinton concurred; if it could be designated as a small family-style restaurant as
opposed to fast food. He was concerned with restaurants such as Champps and the
Pickled Parrot. It would create more problems for the neighborhood in terms of
traffic.
Nelson said a smaller or medium sized restaurant without a bar may be desirable.
There are many sizes between chinese takeout and Champps, perhaps a Bakers
Square. There may be room for that with parking, depending upon the shape of the
restaurant.
Foote said regardless of the type of restaurant there would be a huge accessibility
issue. Driving through the senior area and the parking lot to get in and out of there
would be required.
Stock said perhaps the restaurant could be located closer to Hennepin Town Road so
there could be more direct access.
Corneille asked the Board to comment on senior housing.
Stock asked staff to explain senior housing vs live/work and housing needs.
Franzen said live/work would be for home occupations, where residents could live
upstairs and work downstairs. Parking requirements would be based on office and
housing space. This project helps meet senior housing goals. There is no affordable
housing with this project.
Community Planning Board Minutes
January 22, 2001
Page 6
Stock asked about staff's conception of retail combination.
Franzen said he visited similar projects in Robbinsdale, Shakopee, and Savage. They
are aesthetically pleasing,but retail should not dominate the amount of housing.
Stock asked about the height of the units.
Franzen said these are two story slab on grade or two story walkouts.
Corneille asked about 30 versus 40 units from the original to proposed.
Franzen said there is not an appreciable visual difference. Adding more senior
housing is important.
Stoelting said senior housing goals were important; the retail combination could be a
benefit to the seniors in the housing.
Hustad showed the elevations; the concern with the combination was the upper units
would look out onto retail. The garden on the top screens the units from commercial.
Stoelting asked about the type of retail; there are four shops.
Hustad said it would be small neighborhood shops used by the seniors.
Nelson asked if any of the shops would be drycleaners. She would be very
concerned about a chemical drycleaner using chemicals with smells close to senior
housing.
Hustad said he did not think they had the space to have a large cleaning facility.
There may be a pickup, collection and distribution point, but not chemical cleaners.
Fast food is not a desirable use for the developer. He hopes they can come back with
something that meets with the approval of the staff and Board.
Clinton asked for clairification on the live/work part of the retail calculation.
Franzen said residential is allowed in commercial use and would be calculated as
commercial.
Clinton asked whether that would necessitate over 50,000 square feet commercial.
Franzen said it could, however, live/work is typically office or service and not retail.
It could be accounting, architecture, insurance. The concern is the type of use and
traffic generation more than the square footage.
Community Planning Board Minutes
January 22, 2001
Page 7
Corneille asked what would happen to the facility if the concept did not get
approved.
Franzen said it would convert to residential.
Koenig asked about the 8 foot high berm and the impact of the development upon
the residents' view, and whether they would see it.
Franzen said the issue was the height of the hill, about 16 feet tall, and oak trees on
it. There was also the noise and view of Highway 169. The neighbors wanted a
barrier to the highway.
Hustad said the townhomes are approved. A logical facility would be senior with
commercial; there will be significant mass to absorb the noise. For some seniors an
active busy street is a positive thing. When they come back with a proposal the
senior building would pick up what they would lose; the building itself would
replace the berm and mitigate the concern of blocking 169.
Stock asked how the live/work occupations would be regulated.
Franzen said there would not be enough parking for retail. A clearly defined list of
permitted uses could be developed and included as part of the PUD.
Stock asked whether there was a market for live/work units.
Franzen said yes.
Corneille summarized; moving the gas station north is undesirable, daycare is
desirable, a restaurant would be welcomed if small or mid-size, the senior housing
and number of units are acceptable, retail is acceptable, moving north is of
somewhat concern because of noise and loss of trees, live/work is acceptable,
parking would be regulated, and more than 50,000 sf commercial minus daycare is
acceptable.
Foote said he did not have a problem with the number of senior units ; it was
approved as 30 but shows as 44 on the plan.
Franzen said it was a concept plan approval; there are 38 on one and 44 on another.
Hustad said the live/work units have been reduced; there may be two or three more
units.
Clinton said it was an innovative development and he is intrigued by the concept. On
the approved plan there is 3,600 sf retail, and in lAlA there is 3,600 to the north and
5,500 and an 8 foot berm. The two buildings appear crowded; the character of the
Community Planning Board Minutes
January 22, 2001
Page 8
site should be maintained. He would like to see only one building; it should be
limited to the approved plan.
Corneille clarified Clinton supported A11B.
Hustad said the senior building north site is as Council approved. He would do
something similar to the second plan, with 38 units and 10,000 square feet of
commercial retail. They would probably concentrate the retail between the 10,000
square feet and another building on the west side. They would address the issues
and return to the Board.
Stock asked whether any trees would be saved.
Hustad said those significant oaks that were saved were on the northern boundary
near the residences.
Nelson said she was more interested in senior housing on Al-1A she would like to
see floorplans for the units.
Foote said he was still concerned with accessibility on the corner regardless of what
was there. The main entrance to the north and coming through the parking lot seems
difficult.
Hustad said the traffic numbers and development they are suggesting is less than
originally proposed; with a right-in right out the exit would be easier.
Foote asked for cross sections on the final plans, including sight lines.
Sharel Wanden, Juniper Lane noted her backyard abuts townhomes. She said the
neighbors have always fought a restaurant and would be opposed to any restaurant,
mainly because of the odors. There are restaurants a mile up the road and a gas
station 1.2 miles up on Andersen Lakes and 169 and the other way on Pioneer Trail
and 212. There were things that were agreed upon when this was originally started
and they should abide by that.
Foote asked whether the restaurant was taken out originally.
Franzen said a separate restaurant was not proposed on the property before. It would
be permitted in a strip mall. There is nothing that precludes a restaurant from being
inside any of the retail areas on the project.
V. PUBLIC MEETING
VI. MEMBERS' REPORTS
Community Planning Board Minutes
January 22, 2001
Page 9
VII. CONTINUING BUSINESS
VIII. NEW BUSINESS
IX. PLANNERS' REPORTS
X. ADJOURNMENT
Motion by Stoelting, second by Clinton to adjourn. Motion carried, 7-0.
There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at 8:30 p.m.