Planning Commission - 11/25/2002 APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE COMMUNITY PLANNING BOARD
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 25, 2002 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER
Council Chambers
8080 Mitchell Road
BOARD MEMBERS: Ken Brooks, Frantz Corneille, Randy Foote,
Vicki Koenig, Fred Seymour, Kathy Nelson,
Dave Steppat, Ray Stoelting, Paul Sodt
STAFF MEMBERS: Stu Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources
Mike Franzen, City Planner
I. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE—ROLL CALL
Chair Corneille called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Present: Chair Corneille,
Commissioners Brooks, Foote, Koenig, Nelson, Seymour, Sodt, Steppat and Stoelting.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION by Stoelting, second by Koenig to approve the agenda. Motion carried, 9-0.
III. MINUTES
A. Minutes of the September 9, 2002 Community Planning Board Meeting
Koenig stated there is an error on page 6, 5th paragraph, it should read "from"
MNDOT.
MOTION by Stoelting, second by Koenig, to approve the minutes of the
September 9, 2002 Community Planning Board Meeting. Motion carried, 9-0.
IV. PUBLIC MEETINGS
V. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. HENNEPIN VILLAGE RLS by The Pemtom Land Company. Request
for an RLS subdivision of 102 acres into 2 lots. Location: Part of Tract D
of RLS No. 1667.
Dan Herbst, Pemtom Land Company, spoke regarding the Hennepin Village RLS.
He stated the issue is between Pemtom Land Company and Charlson. He
displayed the overall concept plan
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November 25, 2002
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He continued that Pemtom is planning four phases to the Hennepin Village site.
He said there have been revisions to the concept plan since January. Part of the
settlement agreement was reached between the land owner, City and airport
commission. The MAC property, which is Torrance property, has had some
discrepancies in land descriptions. In order to correct the discrepancies, a
registered land survey is required.
MOTION by Stoelting, second by Foote to close the public hearing. Motion
carried, 9-0.
MOTION by Stoelting, second by Nelson to approve the request for an RLS
subdivision of 102 acres into 2 tracts. Motion carried, 9-0.
B. PARK AND OPEN SPACE PLAN
For review and approval of the Park and Open Space Plan
Stu Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources, stated that the Park and Open
Space Plan is a culmination of 4 1/2 years of staff work and SRF Consulting
Group prepared the final draft. The document was originally adopted in 1988 and
the current document is an update of that plan.
Fox explained what the plan encompassed. Chapter 1 discusses the base data
(population) of the city, background information, and physical/demographic
characteristics. Chapter 2 explains the existing park classification system, other
recreational facilities within Eden Prairie and in surrounding communities.
Chapter 3 discusses park land and details recreational needs and demands analysis
—which are the central core for the open space plan. It tells where the City is at
and where it needs to go. By following state standards and considering input
from associations, staff can determine whether or not we are on track regarding
recreational activities. If a group of individuals requests a particular recreational
activity in the parks, this chapter helps in explaining what the City does or doesn't
choose for activities. Chapter 4 discusses policy, which explains how and why
we do things. Chapter 5 discusses trails,how they are built and how a needs
analysis is done to determine where they should be placed. Chapter 6 looks at
water resources within the community including lakes and streams. Chapter 7
discusses golf courses and historical homes. Chapter 8 talks about funding and
how the park system improvements are planned. Chapter 9 discusses future
recreational trends and community survey results.
Fox stated that the six year CIP is sometimes amended based on petitions from
residents wanting something new, a recreational facility, trails, etc.
An example of activities the previous Park and Open Space Plan didn't include are
skate parks and disc golf, the new version does. The plan is being examined by
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November 25, 2002
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the Park Commission and others. If anything that seems unclear or needs to be
changed, we're asking for input from the board. The next step after Planning
Board input will be review by City Council and Metropolitan Council.
Corneille commented that the plan is a well laid out and logical document. He
stated that it was very easy to read and complimented Fox and the team that
worked on it. He said he had one question. On page vii, the fourth paragraph, it
states the City has over 1,200 acres of conservation land. It also states that the
City will eventually have 2,500 acres. He asked how the number was arrived at.
Fox pointed out that in Chapter 3 there's a table (3.10) on page 3-18, it shows
existing, developing and future acres. Included in that estimate is the Minnesota
Wildlife Refuge which is classified as conservation land even though it's not
developable, it's still included.
Steppat asked how Fox envisioned this being used in the development process.
Fox responded that this is what the City looks at when someone asks for
something new. If it isn't addressed than there needs to be new criteria developed.
Steppat asked if it would be accurate to say this is the direction we are going in
the future unless someone comes up with something new. Fox stated that this is
the basis of the park and recreation planning but it is constantly changing.
Sodt asked Fox whether this addresses the budget and staffing.
Fox responded that it would not be used as an operating budget but it's very useful
to plan for infrastructure and improvements. He stated that there is one remaining
neighborhood park to construct and then the focus will be on renovating parks;
adding to existing parks; and shifting things around if certain sports decline and
something else takes off. The input from individuals and organizations is highly
valued in order to determine future needs.
Koenig asked about the status of Edenbrook Trail.
Fox explained that the Edenbrook Conservation area consists of 230 acres of land
the City has owned for approximately 20 years. Staff had envisioned a walking
trail surrounding the property. The City sent out notices and invited neighbors to
comment on a possible trail. The neighbors said they didn't want residents of
Eden Prairie in their back yards. Staff is waiting for some of the residents or user
groups living in that area to come in and request trail improvements.
Koenig asked about the six acres of land that need to be purchased at Staring
Lake.
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Fox replied there is some potential for parkland east of the Cummings Grill house.
There's also a house and a barn west of the north runway approach. He said the
house,barn and outbuildings are privately owned. MAC would like to buy it and
the City would also like to buy it. The cross country ski trail goes behind the
property.
Koenig asked if there were bike trails at Birch Island. Fox responded there are no
bike trails.
Foote asked if the BFI land was the only area that could be used for a golf course.
Fox responded that they have tried to locate an appropriate parcel of land but
there isn't a parcel large enough for a golf course.
Foote asked Franzen how many acres are necessary for a golf course. Franzen
responded approximately 160 to 200.
Foote asked what are the limitations of the BFI property.
Fox stated they're actively removing methane from that site. They don't want
break the clay cap or plant trees. The garbage is approximately 150 feet deep.
Foote asked whether it will take 15 years for the methane collection. Fox
responded 15 —20 years.
Stodt stated that the nature of the golf course is important. He indicated he
understood there are more golf courses in Minnesota than we need. He suggested
considering a teaching or senior golf course. Soldiers Field in Rochester has a
short par 3. This is a great course for kids and seniors that are just learning to golf
or have mobility problems. The BFI property is flat and would be a good course
for a par 3. Fox responded that he had never heard of the Rochester course but
will discuss it with other staff.
Foote asked Fox to discuss the skate parks.
Fox responded that the skate park at Round Lake is probably one of the heaviest
used portions of the park. The City invested $35,000 in improvements. He stated
that it's getting a lot of use. The City is committed to petitioners to evaluate the
park over a period of years. If it's working out and there's no vandalism, it may
be expanded. It was initially opened on a trial basis and it has been successful.
The City would like input from users to see what other features they would like
added.
Nelson suggested looking at a nine hole golf course rather than an 18 hole. The
shorter course is a good course for kids to learn on and adults to practice on. We
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don't have anything like that out here. She asked about Chapter 9 where it talks
about an aging population but it doesn't discuss plans to update existing parks
such as benches along walking paths to aid people as they age. It's important to
adapt what is there and plan for the future.
Fox responded that infrastructure, such as benches and accessibility trails are
relatively easy to do. That is something that can be reviewed and evaluated by the
staff.
Nelson stated she would like to see things added as the population ages. Older
parents need slightly different things than younger parents. It would be important
to address this in the plan.
Stoelting asked Fox to turn to Table 3-14. He stated that he was very impressed
with all the work on this. He learned a lot about the community that he didn't
know before. He stated that Table 3-14 compares facilities in various
communities. It does a good job of counting softball fields swimming pools, etc.
He asked Fox how the City looks at this in planning. There seems to be some
community competition and how does it play a role in the planning and the
services available.
Fox stated the City knows how many facilities are out there but when staff
discusses this data with various associations they say Eden Prairie doesn't have as
many fields and they aren't as nice as other communities'. Staff looks at what the
other communities have and how they maintain and relate to the associations. It
depends on who's doing it and participating. The City can say our facilities
exceed the average but as soon as you have a group telling the City something
needs to be improved, the plan can change. Eden Prairie is exceeding the national
average in making sure there are facilities available for participants.
Corneille asked about page vi of the executive summary where it talks about
fewer people between 20 and 54,but when you look at page 1-12, the population
distribution doesn't support that. There are more residents between the age of 20
and 54.
Fox responded the document will be reviewed again to make sure there are no
inconsistencies.
Sodt stated that he would like to support the idea of walking trails near some work
areas for people to walk, including senior housing areas. Near the Wilson
Learning Center there was a question of using the conservation area to have trails
go through there. He stated he has talked about the Senior Center and why it isn't
utilized more. He discovered the reason is that many of the senior housing
facilities have their own recreation facilities on site. That suggests that there are
things the City could do in supporting the senior housing programs as well. On
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page 9-4 there is reference to creating mobile programs to do that. In the
summary at the end there could be more emphasis on park areas in the Golden
Triangle and this is something he would strongly support. He said he recalled a
discussion about a third sheet of ice and time uses of that ice. That's only usable
three months out of year. There may already be enough ice and that holds true for
soccer fields who have sporadic crowding. The peak demand is only four to five
months per year. The question is how far the City should go when providing
facilities when they are only used for short peak times.
Koenig asked about the potential for a dog park. Fox stated that a citizen's group
was studying that possibility. A site tour has been done and a report made to the
City Council in January.
Koenig asked about an outdoor pool or aquatic park
Fox responded it was a question in the community survey and it's one amenity
they'd like to see. From the City's perspective if it's a third sheet of ice, outdoor
pool, whatever, these are driven by special interest groups. These facilities have
high costs and the City tries to be practical with proponents of the true cost. What
the long-term payoff on the debt is going to be, costs to operate it, cost to
subsidize it and whether it will be self-supporting. The City wants people to
understand what is involved.
Koenig said the plan really reinforced how much open space Eden Prairie has.
The issue of walking trails kept coming up in this document. The City needs to
finish what is planned and it's going to cost a lot of money. It seems in terms of
community needs, that's a better place to spend money rather than an aquatic
facility.
Foote asked if there is a standard practice in including public and private facilities
together as shown in Table 3.14. In the sense that Eden Prairie could have two
public and two private facilities where Burnsville might have four public and
we're perceived as the same but we're not.
Fox responded that all recreational facilities need to be counted if they can be
used by the public. Other cities will partner with Northwest clubs and Ballys
because they see a joint benefit. Eden Prairie was ahead of the curve when the
Community Center was built 20 years ago without public/private ownership.
Steppat noted the plan was required to be updated every 10 years. He asked how
often it's updated otherwise.
Fox responded that it is updated for the Metropolitan Council every 10 years. But
internally much of the information is updated as soon as it changes.
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Seymour stated that he was impressed with the document and this is a great
reference for people.
MOTION by Stoelting, second by Koenig, to approve the Park and Open Space
Plan, as presented. Motion carried, 9-0.
Corneille complimented Fox on how well done the document was.
VI. MEMBERS REPORTS
Stodt stated he had attended a convention on affordable housing. He said it was an
interesting session and he discovered the scope of what people consider affordable
housing. The most impressive thing was a five page survey of convention issues that
they were concerned about. It discussed housing in terms of homelessness. It's hard for
people living in Eden Prairie who don't see the homeless to understand that there are
homeless people out there. Sodt said when he lived in Bloomington it was reported there
were homeless people and this may hold true for Eden Prairie. If anyone is interested in
seeing the survey he would be happy to share it.
VII. CONTINUING BUSINESS
VIII. NEW BUSINESS
Stoelting referred to a handout regarding historical district designation.
Franzen stated that this legal opinion has a bearing on how the cities make decisions
regarding historical designations. When a city makes a decision it should be based on
facts —expert witnesses and documents. It's not often Eden Prairie turns a project down.
Issues are worked out before the projects come before the Planning Board. When projects
are denied, staff refers to the comprehensive plan or zoning code. This was brought
forward because it was a question as to whether or not staff is considered part of expert
testimony. The findings stated that staff needs to be considered.
Stoelting stated it sounded as though the court altered what the planning board decided.
Franzen replied that the structures needed to meet certain criteria to be in the historical
district but the Minneapolis planning board wasn't consistent in that some buildings met
the criteria and some didn't.
IX. PLANNERS' REPORTS
Franzen stated that at the meeting on December 9, there is a subdivision to permit Von
Maur on a separate lot. The second item is an informational meeting for the Williams
property located behind Modern Tire. The issues are land use and road connection
impacts on existing neighborhoods.
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X. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION by Stoelting, second by Koenig to adjourn. Motion carried, 9-0.
There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at 8:20 p.m.