Planning Commission - 02/10/2003 APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE COMMUNITY PLANNING BOARD
MONDAY, FEBRUARY 10, 2003 7:00 P.M., CITY CENTER
Council Chambers
8080 Mitchell Road
BOARD MEMBERS: Ken Brooks, Frantz Corneille, Randy Foote,
Vicki Koenig, Fred Seymour, Kathy Nelson,
Dave Steppat, Ray Stoelting, Paul Sodt.
STAFF MEMBERS: Stu Fox, Manager of Parks and Natural Resources
Mike Franzen, City Planner
Al Gray, City Engineer
Jane Hovind, Recording Secretary
I. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE—ROLL CALL
Chair Corneille called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Present: Corneille,
Commissioners Brooks, Foote, Nelson, Seymour, Steppat, and Stoelting.
Absent: Koenig, Sodt
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION by Nelson, second by Stoelting, to approve the agenda. Motion carried,
7-0.
III. MINUTES
A. Minutes of the January 27, 2003 Community Planning Board Meeting
Steppat noted the second to the last line on the bottom of page 5 should say "Herbst
was initially correct in his original assessment that the adult lifestyle homes are
important."
MOTION by Stoelting, second by Steppat, to approve the minutes of the January
27, 2003 Community Planning Board Meeting. Motion carried, 5-2 (abstained)
IV. PUBLIC MEETINGS
V. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. LAKE POINT by Taurus Properties, Inc. Request for Planned Unit Development
Concept Review on 10 acres, Planned Unit Development District Review with
waivers on 10 acres, Zoning District Change from Rural to R1-13.5 on 10 acres,
Planning Board Minutes
February 10, 2003
Page 2
and Preliminary Plat of 10 acres into 12 lots, 1 outlot and road right-of-way.
Location: Southeast corner of Mitchell Road and Cumberland Road.
Duane Dietrich of Taurus Properties introduced the project. He stated the site
consists of 12 lots. The site is contoured severely which allows for only 55%
usable land, the remainder consists of lake, shoreland and impact areas. Four of the
lots back up to McCoy Lake. These lots will have 150 foot setbacks from the lake
and 150 foot widths. Initially, Outlot D was considered for a NURP pond but it
didn't work because of the impact it would have on the wetland area. To conserve
mature oak trees the NURP pond was situated between the rear four lots and
McCoy Lake.
Michael Franzen, City Planner, stated that the project is consistent with densities in
the area. The waivers result in the dedication of an outlot for the protection of
McCoy Lake saving a large stand of significant oak trees; allowing room for a
stormwater treatment pond and reducing impervious surface for the development.
The Staff recommendation is for approval according to the recommendations on
pages 4 and 5 of the staff report.
Nelson asked since Outlot D is no longer being considered for a treatment pond,
what the lot will be used for. Al Gray, City Engineer,responded the lot is owned
by the City.
Stoelting asked whether Lots 4 and 5 shared a driveway. Franzen replied that they
do and it's common in areas with trees, slopes and shoreland areas for homes to
share driveways. He said the Boulder Point development has houses on each side of
a private road. This was done to minimize tree loss. Stoelting said that it seems tree
loss was a major consideration for configuration of the lots on this site. He asked
Franzen if this configuration had not been used, what the tree loss would have been.
Franzen replied it would have impacted the stand of oak trees on the southeast side
of the site. He said looking at the densities in the area this is a lower density. Other
projects in that area were developed prior to the development of tree, shoreland and
wetland ordinances. This plan is a better environmental design.
Nelson asked if there will be signage along the rear of the lots abutting McCoy
Lake so that homeowners don't take out the trees. Stu Fox, Manager of Parks and
Natural Resources,responded they would put up signage that it is City property.
MOTION by Stoelting, second by Nelson, to close the public hearing. Motion
carried, 7-0.
MOTION by Stoelting, second by Nelson, to approve the Planned Unit
Development Concept Review on 10 acres, Planned Unit Development District
Review with waivers on 10 acres, Zoning District Change from Rural to R1-13.5 on
10 acres, and Preliminary Plat of 10 acres into 12 lots, 1 outlot and road right-of-
Planning Board Minutes
February 10, 2003
Page 3
way, based on plans dated February 6, 2003, and subject to the recommendations of
the staff report dated February 7, 2003, to the City Council. Motion carried, 7-0.
B. HENNEPIN VILLAGE - SITES C & D by Pemtom Land Company. Request for
Comprehensive Guide Plan Change from Low Density Residential to Medium
Density Residential on 2.9 acres, Comprehensive Guide Plan Change from Office to
Medium Density Residential on 4.5 acres, Comprehensive Guide Plan Change from
Public to Office on 1.2 acres, Comprehensive Guide Plan Change from Public to
Medium Density Residential on .4 acres, Planned Unit Development Concept
Amendment on 151.43 acres, Planned Unit Development District Review on 64.9
acres, Zoning District Change from Rural to R1-9.5 on 16.9 acres, Zoning District
Change from Rural to RM-6.5 on 48 acres, Site Plan Review on 48 acres, and
Preliminary Plat of 151.43 acres into 443 lots, 5 outlots, and road right of way.
Location: North of Hwy. 212, east of Spring Road.
Dan Herbst of Pemtom introduced the project. He said in 2002, the original plan
was approved and has been developed in phases (A, B, C & D). He said the plan
was to develop sites A and B first. Because of the scheduling of utilities and with A
being ready for houses, sites C and D are the next phase. He stated that part of the
site has been sold to MAC. The entrance to the site will include a monument built
of Chaska brick and Minnesota limestone and the area will be heavily landscaped.
There will be a community center, an existing barn that will be restored and a
windmill. There will be a circular parking area, pool and tennis courts. The homes
will be made up of three designs: Village, Carriage and Heritage homes. There will
be trails and a park incorporated into the site and in the northeastern part of the
property there will be retail and office.
Franzen stated the proposed plan is consistent with the approved overall plan. With
the exception of the addition of a few properties to make the project larger, all of
the design features are relatively the same. There are two issues to discuss. The
first is the transition from residential to office. Residents will be concerned about
their view once the homes are built. The developer has two options. The first is to
change the office buildings from one and two story office buildings to two and three
story buildings. This will reduce the building footprint and will create additional
open space for landscaping. The second option is to reduce the parking setback
along Charlson Road to 17.5 feet. This would be a waiver from the City Code.
Then this footage could be transferred to the common rear property lines which
would create space for additional landscaping. The developer is requesting a waiver
from City Code to replace 8,222 inches of trees rather than the required tree
replacement which is 10,935 inches. Staff does not support this waiver. There are
51 acres of open space to be dedicated to the City with the development of Site B.
Any trees saved in this area can be used to reduce the total tree loss and tree
replacement in the planned unit development. The grading and drainage plan had
been going through an evolutionary process going from wet ponds to dry ponds.
Part of the agreement with MAC has to do with how much water is in the ponds.
Planning Board Minutes
February 10, 2003
Page 4
They are dry ponds and the pond closest to the clubhouse will be dry all the time.
The ponds near the homes will not have liners and are designed so that the water
will absorb into the ground. The question is how much larger the dry ponds are in
comparison to the wet ponds. It shouldn't impact the design of the office area. Staff
is recommending approval of the project according to recommendations in the staff
report.
Brooks asked if Herbst agreed with Franzen's recommendation. Herbst stated he
does not think it's appropriate in the soft market of today to build 2 and 3 story
office buildings that he's not sure will even be leased. Franzen responded that this
is just an option.
Stoelting asked about the parking. He said the plans for multi family show two
parking spots provided for each unit. Franzen responded that in the single family
area there is space allowed for parking on the streets. The driveways are too short
to allow parking. The multi-family could have two cars in front of each garage and
parking would be allowed on the street. Stoelting asked if staff anticipated a lot of
parking on the streets and if the streets will be a little wider to allow this additional
parking. Gray responded they aren't any wider than standard streets as it's a
compact urban area and they are all private streets. He said if parking becomes a
problem within the project, the homeowner's association will deal with the it, not
the City.
Stoelting asked Herbst about a temporary drive for Phase I construction and how
that would be utilized. Herbst responded that this is a current access for the David
Brown property that he would like to continue using until two other access points
are built at which time this access will be closed off. Stoelting asked about the four
foot visibility fence around the perimeter of the property. Herbst responded that
City staff was concerned about people going out and using the bluff area for dogs,
etc. The fencing will prevent them from using the property. Stoelting asked about
the mail box stations. He asked in conjunction with the street parking,how the
stations work. Whether there was an area to park to get the mail. Herbst responded
that there are a number of stations throughout the site. Residents can pull up to the
station in their vehicles to get mail. The stations are protected from inclement
weather. There are approximately sixteen mail boxes per station.
Steppat asked when the office/retail section will be developed. Herbst responded
that he'd like to have it developed by a major developer who deals with commercial
properties. The market is currently very soft so it may be 5 — 8 years before it's
developed.
Steppat asked the price ranges of the homes. Herbst responded the Carriage is in
the low 200,000's, Heritage is in the high 200,000's, the single family homes will be
between $325,000 - 350,000, and the Wooddale townhomes will be in the high
400,000's.
Planning Board Minutes
February 10, 2003
Page 5
Steppat asked Gray if road improvements need to be made. Gray responded Spring
Road is where there needs to be changes and they are already planned for this next
summer. The improvements of the intersection of Charlson and 212 would need to
be in place when the office area is developed.
Nelson asked why Herbst is developing C & D since A is just in the beginning
stages. Herbst responded because of the tremendous amount of fill that had to be
removed, it's taken a while to get started. Sales of the lots have been very good.
Wooddale and Ryland would like to build models on site C by the fall of 2003. It's
hard to market without models. Nelson asked if the models on site A are the same
distance apart as the homes in the neighborhood will be. Herbst responded they
would. Nelson stated that the Heritage homes in the plans don't seem to have an
old look to them. Herbst stated they are meant to look older with the colors,pitch
of the roof and other building materials and the surroundings such as fences,
landscaping and neighborhood amenities will add to that look. Nelson stated that
the distance between the homes seems close but not as much as she expected.
Herbst responded that the inside of the homes gives the feeling that they're not as
close. Windows are situated in such a way that they are not looking out on the
house next door. Nelson stated her concern about the office area and how the
neighborhood will be affected by that. Herbst responded there will be a disclosure
statement signed by homeowners so that they are aware of this eventual office
product.
Corneille asked about the original comments made by Mr. Herbst regarding the
transition between office and residential and what the issues are and what staff has
recommended. Franzen responded that the goal is to add more open space between
the slope on the pond and the parking lot, doubling the size of that area. In order to
do that the developer could build out closer to Charlson Road. The developer still
has the option of going through rezoning process before homes are built. The board
should recommend that the developer, when developing the office area, provide a
larger green space between the office space and residential. The only options are to
go up with 2 or 3 story buildings or go with a reduced setback.
Stoelting asked about the tree replacement issue where the developer is asking for a
waiver on the amount of tree replacement. He asked if this was tied into the office
and residential transition area. Franzen stated that at the time they put the staff
report together they didn't know the number of trees that would be saved in site B.
Staff doesn't support waivers for tree replacement. There is a sliding scale of tree
replacement which is designed to preserve trees. There are clusters of trees in the
project that can't be worked around and need to be removed. There won't be a need
for a waiver if the tree numbers are accurate for site B. Staff will make adjustments
as the plans progress and will advise the Board on the final numbers.
Planning Board Minutes
February 10, 2003
Page 6
Seymour asked whether the proposed Charlson Road improvements at the
intersection of 212 would be done now or at a later date. Gray responded, the
intersection will be built at a later date as it's part of the overall Charlson project.
He said that that portion of the project may be transferred from the City's
responsibility to the developers and that would change the time frame for the
improvement of that intersection. Charlson Road will be done in phases, the
intersection will need to be completed when the office area is developed. Seymour
asked if there would be more than one entrance into the residential area off of
Charlson Road. Gray responded there would be one entrance off Charlson Road
and possibly a temporary entrance off Spring Road. Eventually when the
intersection is done there will be two entrances off Charlson Road and the Spring
Road entrance will not longer be used. Foote asked if Spring Road would
accommodate the additional traffic. Gray responded that traffic will head out to the
Spring Road/Pioneer Trail intersection and he wouldn't anticipate any problems.
Corneille asked Herbst to comment on staff s suggestions for the transition from
residential to office. Herbst responded if he could do the landscaping he would but
there is no place left to plant trees. Regarding the 2 or 3 story office buildings, the
economy won't support that much office. He said he realizes the importance of
making sure the office area is appropriately screened. Stoelting asked about Miller
Spring and where it is in relationship to the development. Fox responded there is a
plan with the Watershed district to change the area.
Nelson asked if it would work for homes nearest to the office area to be built last
and that way people will see the office area before the houses are built. Herbst
stated that restricting the building of the homes would not be beneficial since the
market is good for residential housing. The office market is very soft currently but
if it were to turn around the homes and the office area could be built
simultaneously.
Foote stated he is concerned about the roadway system and the fact that the
Charlson/212 intersection won't be improved until the office area is built in 5 - 8
years. Gray responded that as a City project, that would be the case. If it became
the developer's project, it could be done sooner. It's important that Spring Road and
the Charlson improvements are done at separate times since Spring Road would be
closed for two months when it's upgraded. The grade of 212 needs to be changed in
order to upgrade the Charlson/212 intersection. This will result in a reduction of
traffic on 212 during construction. The 212 road improvements are public projects
assessed to abutting property owners.
Foote stated he is concerned that down the road if there are traffic problems with
the new development, the road improvements may need to be moved up.
MOTION by Stoelting, second by Steppat, to close the public hearing. Motion
carried, 7-0.
Planning Board Minutes
February 10, 2003
Page 7
MOTION by Stoelting, second by Brooks, to approve the request for
Comprehensive Guide Plan Change from Low Density Residential to Medium
Density Residential on 2.9 acres, Comprehensive Guide Plan Change from Office to
Medium Density Residential on 4.5 acres, Comprehensive Guide Plan Change from
Public to Office on 1.2 acres, Comprehensive Guide Plan Change from Public to
Medium Density Residential on .4 acres, Planned Unit Development Concept
Amendment on 151.43 acres, Planned Unit Development District Review on 64.9
acres, Zoning District Change from Rural to R1-9.5 on 16.9 acres, Zoning District
Change from Rural to RM-6.5 on 48 acres, Site Plan Review on 48 acres, and
Preliminary Plat of 151.43 acres into 443 lots, 5 outlots, and road right of way,
based on plans dated February 7, 2003, and subject to the recommendations of the
staff report dated February 7, 2003, to the City Council. Motion carried, 7-0.
Nelson asked again about the transition between homes and office. Corneille
responded that he is confident that the planning staff and the developer will work it
out. Brooks responded that the developer is working to mitigate this although it's
going to be a few years. Steppat stated that he shares Nelson's concerns. Nelson
asked how important it is that this area be developed as office or could it be
developed for houses. Franzen stated that office must be here as a transition to the
airport. Franzen said it's up to the Board to determine a better transition and how
that would be accomplished. In addition to the disclosure statement there could be
signs posted that say it's the site of a future office development.
C. WETLAND ORDINANCE AMENDMENT
Franzen stated the ordinance has three changes: City accepts LGU status for the
Minnesota River watershed, definition changes based on State changes to wetlands,
and minor clarification of City definitions to eliminate confusion.
MOTION by Stoelting, second by Steppat, to close the public hearing. Motion
carried, 7-0.
MOTION by Brooks, second by Stoelting, to approve the request for a Wetland
Ordinance Amendment, and subject to the recommendations of the staff report
dated February 7, 2003. Motion carried, 7-0.
VI. MEMBERS REPORTS
VII. CONTINUING BUSINESS
VIII. NEW BUSINESS
IX. PLANNERS'REPORTS
Planning Board Minutes
February 10, 2003
Page 8
X. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION by Stoelting, second by Steppat to adjourn. Motion carried, 7-0.
There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at 8:30 p.m.