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Planning Commission - 02/19/1974 AGENDA EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMMISSION TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 19,1974 7:3 0 P.M. CITY HALL , INVOCATION—^_ PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE ^ ROLL CALL COMMISSION MEMBERS: Chairwoman Norma Schee, Wayne Brown, Don Sorensen, Richard Lynch, Joan Meyers, M E. Lane, Herb Fosnocht'. STAFF PRESENT: Richard Putnam, City Planner I. PUBLIC HEARINGS: 7:55 A. Sum merwoods II, by Zachman.Homes Inc. , a 13.5 acre site proposed for clustered single family homes. The site is located in -Edenvale on Ou tlot U Edenvale 3rd Addition N orthwest area, (directly south of-existing Surnmerwood) . Refer to: ..I. Staff Report 'of January 31, 1974. 2. Broch-ire January 1974.' 3. February 5,.' 1974, Planning Commission Minutes. Action: Approve, reject, or continue public hearing. _ B. Lake Eden Height by Eden Land Corporation, single family plat of 192 lots. . 8:0 0 located in the Edenvale South P.U.D. Refer to : 1. Revised Resolution # 810-Edenvale South P.U.D. approval. 2. 'Revised plan February.l, 1974. 3: Januray.22, 1974 Council Minutes. 4.� Planning Commission Minutes Feburary 5, 1974., Action: Continue Public Hearing until.. March 5, *1974. - II. WORK SESSION. No action on any of these agenda items. A. An-up-date and presentation by Staff of preliminary analyis of Crosstown extension from I-494 to.Shady Oak Road. B. Presentation of issues related of the heist of buildings in the community. Discussion with City Staff and Gold Medallion Corporation regarding building styles in Shady Oak PUD in northeastern Eden Prairie. C. An up-date of recent action which affect planning in the Lake Smetana Sector. . and discussion of the time schedule- for approvals. D. Discussion of requests by builders to relocate side yard set-backs as has been done in single family lots in Edenvale & The Preserve. Refer to: Mr.Bonner's letter of Febrary 12, 1974. i E. Preliminary discussion of potential "mini-sector" plan for the Crosstown Industrial Park along Co. Rd. 62, north of Kings Forest. Presentation by Staff of concept and suggestion as to'method for implementing otivner and nbighborhood input. F. Status report for Round/ Duck Lake Sector planning that was chlayed last year. Progress report concerning Hidden Ponds and park planning in the area. IIT PLANNING COMMISSION CHAIRWOMAN'S REPORT- MRS. SCHEE. A. joint meeting with Council. B. Special lunch tours for special projects.. IV. ADIOURNMENT. • MINUTES EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMMISSION TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 19,.974 7:30 P.M. CITY HALL �. MEMBERS PRESENT : Don Sorensen,, M.E. Lane, Norma Schee, Herb Fosnocht Richard Lynch, Wayne Brown. MEMBERS ABSENT: Joan Meyers. STAFF PRESENT: Richard Putnam. MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 5 , 1974 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING. The following changes were made to the February 5th Planning Commission Meeting: Page 2 , R. 7- spelling of willing. Page 3, R 4 -spelling of separation. Page 4, R4 --spelling of responded and figure. 1�6 -should read low-medium density area . . . R7 - should read Mrs. Schee told Mr. Sorensen that she . . . Page 7 , R4 - should read Mr. Sorensen felt that such arrangement could exclude . . . & should read there should be an easement for the public. Schee moved, Lane seconded, to make the changes to the February 5, 1974 Minutes. The motion was carried by a vote of 4 ayes, (Sorensen, Schee, Lane, Fosnocht) and 2 abstains, (Lynch, Brown) . I. PUBLIC HEARINGS: A. Summerwoods II, by Zachman Homes Inc. , a 13.5 acre, site proposed for clustered single-family homes The site is located in Edenvale on Outlot U Edenvale 3rd • Addition�Northwest area, (directly south of existing Summerwood) . Mr. Putnam presented a slide illustration of the site.to the Commission pointing out its relation to the surrounding area. Mr. Sorensen questioned Mr. Zachman about his stating he did not intend a 5' side set--back or a 10' house set-back, since it was requested .beforehand in the Summer- woods II brochure. Mr. Zachman stated that its purpose was to cover unusual situations and to provide a 20' useable side-yard for marketability. Mr. Putnam informed Mr. Sorensen that the State Building Code require s a minimum of 3 feet lot line between each-building; also , that some garages in the Highpoint area are only 5 ' from lot line. Mr. Zachman felt that the issue before the Commission was to approve a plat and not for a variance to the ordinance. Sorensen stated that he -thought it was a variance issue. Mr. Fosnocht questioned the appropriateness of placing detached single-family housing on such small bts , (more than 3du/acre) , and from his viewing of the Summerwoods II site he does not feel that the City should give a set-back variance for fire and safety reasons. Schee said that variances have been necessary in order for the City to provide housing for a wide spectrum of people, from large homes to apartments . She pointed out that some Planning Commission Minutes -2- Feb.. 19, 1974 people chose single-family detached housing to townhouses, and that this kind of a home is being bought and enjoyed. Mr. Sorensen said that Joan Meyers indicated that the the Council when adopting Ordinance 135 in connection with large scale PUD's would accept less than R1-13.5 s.f. detached . He felt that s .f. places. a greater tax drain burden per unit as opposed to other structures and that a lower density increases the per capita cost for the City. If the s.f. housing would be for low-moderate incomes, then Mr. Sorensen said they should seriously consider it, but such has not been the case. Mr. Lane stated that more homes mean more income and all housing regJ ires services such as; plowing, police, and fire, and he felt the project should be judged upon merit, marketability, and its effect upon the City. Mr. Sorensen said he was not so much concerned about this *site but the overall problem;in that 66% of taxes _go to s.clacols . He felt that more s.f. development would bring more taxes and that these increased .services may increase everyones taxes . Mr. Petersen told the Commission .that the cost of services are $4,000-5,000. cheaper on the smaller lots. Three • out of 26 lots remain to be sold and sales reflect that they are giving the public what they want. If the. proposed s.f, cannot be built, Mr. Zachman said that townhouses would have to be sold. . Mr. Fosnocht did not believe that s.f. housing would be a proper use of the site if it required granting a variance. Mr. Sorensen raised questions about the on-going charges which are the long-term effects of single-family detached. The Planner responded that on a 13 acre site it- would not be a drain given the 4 du/acre as compared to say, $35,0d0°°townhouses at 6du/acre. Schee asked Mr. Zachman what type of famalies have bought these lots and how many children per lot they were averaging? Mr. Zachman estimated that there would be approximately 1 preschool child/ lot. .Posnocht asked for the sizes of.lots in Summerwoods I. Mr. Zachman replied that they ranged from 5600-8500 sq. ft. with an average of 6600 sq'. ft. Mr. Don Hess commented that it sounded like a fiscal zoning discussion, He thought that all uses were factored-in, in the begiinningland that this project is just a part of the total Edenvale plan. Action: Lane moved, Schee seconded, to recommend the approval,of Summer-woods II as outlined in the Staff Report dated January 31 , 1974 , and the. Engineering Report dated February 1, 1974. The motion carried by a vote of 5 ayes, and I nay vote by Fosnocht. Mr. Sorensen added that it was not a fiscal zoning issue but that there are fiscal implications. Planning Commission Minutes -3- Feb. 19, 1974 B. Lake Eden Heights, by Eden Land Corporation, single-family plat of 192 lots located in the Edenvale South PUD. The Planner reported that a staff report was not available since the concept plan had just bee approved by the Council and he hoped to have it by next week. He felt it improper for the Commission to take action until the Council acts on the PUD. Mrs. Schee asked if there were any questions on Resolution 4810. Sorensen questioned why under recommendation 18 a , it did not state a reassess- ment policy with interest,back. to Edenvale. Putnam said that the Council placed it in the resolution and the City plans to develop the park within a year. Mr. Peterson added that they were not happy with the 15 years but it appeared the best solution for both parties . Lane raised a question about the easement issue previously discussed and the Planner directed him to Exhibit C, item 4 , adding that a policy must be clarified by the City as to what is reasonable for all areas. Action: Sorensen moved, Schee seconded, to continue the public hearing untilthe March 5th meeting. The motion was carried by an unanimous vote. WORK SESSION. No action on any of these agenda items. A. An up-date and presentation by staff of preliminary analysis of Crosstown extension from I-494 to Shady Oak Road. Mr. Putnam reported that needed information on traffic volumes had not yet been received from the county and state, so he would prefer to delay the Crosstown discussion until the material is received. B. Presentation of issues related to the height of buildings in the community., Discussion ,yith. City Staff and Gold Medallion Corporation regarding building styles in Shady,Oak PUD in northeastern Eden Prairie. Mr. Putnam reviewed the recent action of the Council which approved the Master's Condominiums, two -3 story buildings . The recent controversy is over whether or not 4 or more story buildings are appropriate outside of the MCA, and the significance of a 45 foot height restriction if only 3 stories can be JaAlt. Discussion followed concerning the various shapes of the buildings and the intention behind the Council's action. Mr. Lynch did not want it construed that there could be no 6 story buildings, but such buildings might be approgtteupon a given site. Mr. Sorensen believed that the height of the buildings, being above the tree-line • was. significant because 7 months out of the year the trees would be leafless. He agreed with Mr. Lynch that the Master's site was not 'benefitted by a 6 story building. Planning Commission Minutes -4- Feb. 19, 1974 Fosnocht asked Mrs . Schee what the Commission was expected to produce lydm this discussion. She responded that the purpose was for the Commission to view what can be done with variations of buildings at sites by viewing the visual aides presented by the Gold Medallion Corporation representatives . Mr. Sorensen asked Mr. Gustafson, President of Gold. Medallion if they still intended to build their home office on the site. He responded that they are about 80 % sure that they will construct the office on the site, and that the reason that they could not build earlier was because the City did not see the justification for extending services the 2 miles to the site.. Mr.Gustafson then presented the 2 building options: a 3 story building(of possible masonry or frame construction), and a 5 story masonry building which,would be shorter in length, closer to the pond, and better preserve theridge. He said they favored the 5 story plan,which would cover 50% less of the site,than the 3 story plan and provide more than 1 garage space/unit. Brown asked if a sprinkler system would be installed. Mr. Gustafson said it is not proposed;, instead each unit would be sleeved and isolatedby a normal lire wall. Mr. Lynch questioned how the 45 foot height was arrived at,and if it was to stay within the ordinance. Mr. Gustafson answered that the height is related to the site and that it may be over 45 feet. Chairwoman Schee asked for the Commissions reaction .to the models. Mr. Lynch saw nothing detrimental or extremely exciting to either plan. MR. Brown brought out the fact that the City Fire Department's ladder is only 3 stories high. Mr. Putnam said that sprinklers would be required if the F.D.'s ladders were inadequate. Mr. Lane's feeling was that he is open-minded to greater than 3 story buildings outside of the MCA. Mr. Putnam asked if it was the concensus of the Commission that they would have no firm policy against 3 story buildings, and they would be willing to evaluate proposals upon merit and not story height. All members responded that over 3 story buildings would be possible on specific sites and Chairwoman Schee directed the staff to write a position paper. C. An up date of recent action which affect planning in the Lake Smetana Sector and discussion of the time schedule for approvals . Information related to Lake Smetana's relationship to the MCA, and the Valley View Rd./18 interchange will be reviewed in the future. The Planner said Edinl: commented about allowing the 18 interchange, with a west access and a partial east access, which will serve the industrial area . Construction of the Shady Oak Road is Planning Commission Minutes -5- Feb. 19, 1974 • dependent upon the land owners dedication of right-of-way, with the interchange construction leginning in 1976. Mr. Putnam is expecting a mid-March meeting with interested parties to discuss actions which a ffect the Lake Smetana Sector. Notices will be mailed out to land owners and residents prior to the meeting. D. Discussion of requests by builders to relocate side yard set-backs as has been done in single family lots in Edenvale & The Preserve. Refer to : Mr. Bonner`s letter of February 12 , 1974. Mr. Putnam outlined the implication of the 10` side-yard restrictions, especially in RI-1 3. 5 subdivisions, and that developers are requesting variances for special situations. He felt the building department wo uld just as soon revise theordinance than.tn haVP tO avant so manv variations . Bill Bonner, of Hustad Development Corporation, stated that every lot does not require a variance but there were 2 situations in Creekwood where variations would have been beneficial in better lot use ,or in saving trees . Mrs. Schee did not feel that the ordinance should be amended because the City can not expect all to use it properly. The Planner felt that site coverage -and housing relationship is more mean- ingful than stringent set-backs . He suggested the building department might make the decision on allowing minor set-back variances . Mr. Bonner said they would be happy to rely upon the staffs reasoning. E. Preliminary discussion of potential "mini-sector" plan jor the Crosstown Industrial Park along Co. Rd. 62 , north of Kings Forest. Presentation by staff of concept and suggestion as to method for implementing owner and neighborhood ice. Slides and aerials of the area were presented by the Planner. In order for residents to have safe and efficient access to the parks a road should be established from Birch Island Road `north of Ponderosa to Baker Road, ,across 494 to Beach Road with its final connection with Rowland Road. Mr. Putnam stated that the City does not favor t'.e extension of Freeway 62 west of 494 , and that they can refuse it. Instead a road could service the industrial area from 62 with restricted traffic to the I--2 area and minimizing railroad crossings . . A meeting will be held February 22, 1974, at the City Hall, 'in order to gain the input from the landowners in the area. Planning CommiS:3ion Minutes -6- Feb. .19, 1974 Mrs. Schee directed the Planner to inform the Commission about the result s of the meeting. F. Status report for Round/Duck Lake Sector planning that was delayed last year. Progress report concerning Hidden Ponds and park planning in the area. It was reported by the Planner that this matter was delayed last year due to time spent on the MCA planning and other projects . He hoped to finish the planning and ne:i.ghborhood meetings within 2 or 3 months . III. PLANNING COMMISSION CHAIRWOMAN`. S REPORT MRS. SCREE. A. Joint meeting with Council. Chairwoman Norma Schee informed the Commission that a.-iagenda would be prepared for the joint meeting and if members wished to place an item on the agenda they should contact her before Friday. B. Special lunch tours for special projects. Because of the previous interest in lunch tours Mrs. Schee suggested the continuation of such lunch tours. It was the consensus of the Commission that the tours would be beneficial. C. Special Planning Seminars at Normandale Jr. College. Starting Saturday, March 23rd, through the end of April,sessions will be held at the College; interested Commission Members are urged to attend. The cost will be paid by the City. IV . ADJOURNMENT. Lane moved, Schee seconded, to adjourn the meeting at 11:10' P.M.