Planning Commission - 02/19/1974 AGENDA
EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMMISSION
TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 19,1974
7:3 0 P.M. CITY HALL ,
INVOCATION—^_ PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE ^ ROLL CALL
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Chairwoman Norma Schee, Wayne Brown, Don Sorensen,
Richard Lynch, Joan Meyers, M E. Lane, Herb Fosnocht'.
STAFF PRESENT: Richard Putnam, City Planner
I. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
7:55 A. Sum merwoods II, by Zachman.Homes Inc. , a 13.5 acre site proposed for
clustered single family homes. The site is located in -Edenvale on Ou tlot U
Edenvale 3rd Addition N orthwest area, (directly south of-existing Surnmerwood) .
Refer to: ..I. Staff Report 'of January 31, 1974.
2. Broch-ire January 1974.'
3. February 5,.' 1974, Planning Commission Minutes.
Action: Approve, reject, or continue public hearing. _
B. Lake Eden Height by Eden Land Corporation, single family plat of 192 lots. .
8:0 0 located in the Edenvale South P.U.D.
Refer to : 1. Revised Resolution # 810-Edenvale South P.U.D. approval.
2. 'Revised plan February.l, 1974.
3: Januray.22, 1974 Council Minutes.
4.� Planning Commission Minutes Feburary 5, 1974.,
Action: Continue Public Hearing until.. March 5, *1974. -
II. WORK SESSION. No action on any of these agenda items.
A. An-up-date and presentation by Staff of preliminary analyis of Crosstown
extension from I-494 to.Shady Oak Road.
B. Presentation of issues related of the heist of buildings in the community.
Discussion with City Staff and Gold Medallion Corporation regarding
building styles in Shady Oak PUD in northeastern Eden Prairie.
C. An up-date of recent action which affect planning in the Lake Smetana Sector. .
and discussion of the time schedule- for approvals.
D. Discussion of requests by builders to relocate side yard set-backs as has
been done in single family lots in Edenvale & The Preserve.
Refer to: Mr.Bonner's letter of Febrary 12, 1974. i
E. Preliminary discussion of potential "mini-sector" plan for the Crosstown
Industrial Park along Co. Rd. 62, north of Kings Forest. Presentation by
Staff of concept and suggestion as to'method for implementing otivner and
nbighborhood input.
F. Status report for Round/ Duck Lake Sector planning that was chlayed last
year. Progress report concerning Hidden Ponds and park planning in the area.
IIT PLANNING COMMISSION CHAIRWOMAN'S REPORT- MRS. SCHEE.
A. joint meeting with Council.
B. Special lunch tours for special projects..
IV. ADIOURNMENT.
• MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMMISSION
TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 19,.974 7:30 P.M. CITY HALL
�. MEMBERS PRESENT : Don Sorensen,, M.E. Lane, Norma Schee, Herb Fosnocht
Richard Lynch, Wayne Brown.
MEMBERS ABSENT: Joan Meyers.
STAFF PRESENT: Richard Putnam.
MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 5 , 1974 PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING.
The following changes were made to the February 5th Planning Commission Meeting:
Page 2 , R. 7- spelling of willing.
Page 3, R 4 -spelling of separation.
Page 4, R4 --spelling of responded and figure.
1�6 -should read low-medium density area . . .
R7 - should read Mrs. Schee told Mr. Sorensen that she . . .
Page 7 , R4 - should read Mr. Sorensen felt that such arrangement could exclude . . .
& should read there should be an easement for the public.
Schee moved, Lane seconded, to make the changes to the February 5, 1974 Minutes.
The motion was carried by a vote of 4 ayes, (Sorensen, Schee, Lane, Fosnocht) and
2 abstains, (Lynch, Brown) .
I. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
A. Summerwoods II, by Zachman Homes Inc. , a 13.5 acre, site proposed for clustered
single-family homes The site is located in Edenvale on Outlot U Edenvale 3rd
• Addition�Northwest area, (directly south of existing Summerwood) .
Mr. Putnam presented a slide illustration of the site.to the Commission pointing out
its relation to the surrounding area.
Mr. Sorensen questioned Mr. Zachman about his stating he did not intend a 5' side
set--back or a 10' house set-back, since it was requested .beforehand in the Summer-
woods II brochure. Mr. Zachman stated that its purpose was to cover unusual
situations and to provide a 20' useable side-yard for marketability. Mr. Putnam
informed Mr. Sorensen that the State Building Code require s a minimum of 3 feet
lot line between each-building; also , that some garages in the Highpoint area are
only 5 ' from lot line.
Mr. Zachman felt that the issue before the Commission was to approve a plat and
not for a variance to the ordinance. Sorensen stated that he -thought it was a variance
issue.
Mr. Fosnocht questioned the appropriateness of placing detached single-family housing
on such small bts , (more than 3du/acre) , and from his viewing of the Summerwoods II
site he does not feel that the City should give a set-back variance for fire and safety
reasons.
Schee said that variances have been necessary in order for the City to provide housing for
a wide spectrum of people, from large homes to apartments . She pointed out that some
Planning Commission Minutes -2- Feb.. 19, 1974
people chose single-family detached housing to townhouses, and that this kind of a
home is being bought and enjoyed. Mr. Sorensen said that Joan Meyers indicated that the
the Council when adopting Ordinance 135 in connection with large scale PUD's
would accept less than R1-13.5 s.f. detached . He felt that s .f. places. a greater tax
drain burden per unit as opposed to other structures and that a lower density
increases the per capita cost for the City. If the s.f. housing would be for
low-moderate incomes, then Mr. Sorensen said they should
seriously consider it, but such has not been the case.
Mr. Lane stated that more homes mean more income and all housing regJ ires services
such as; plowing, police, and fire, and he felt the project should be judged upon
merit, marketability, and its effect upon the City.
Mr. Sorensen said he was not so much concerned about this *site but the overall
problem;in that 66% of taxes _go to s.clacols . He felt that more s.f. development would
bring more taxes and that these increased .services may increase everyones taxes .
Mr. Petersen told the Commission .that the cost of services are $4,000-5,000. cheaper
on the smaller lots. Three • out of 26 lots remain to be sold and sales reflect that
they are giving the public what they want.
If the. proposed s.f, cannot be built, Mr. Zachman said that townhouses would have
to be sold.
. Mr. Fosnocht did not believe that s.f. housing would be a proper use of the site
if it required granting a variance.
Mr. Sorensen raised questions about the on-going charges which are the long-term
effects of single-family detached. The Planner responded that on a 13 acre site it-
would not be a drain given the 4 du/acre as compared to say, $35,0d0°°townhouses
at 6du/acre.
Schee asked Mr. Zachman what type of famalies have bought these lots and how many
children per lot they were averaging? Mr. Zachman estimated that there would be
approximately 1 preschool child/ lot.
.Posnocht asked for the sizes of.lots in Summerwoods I. Mr. Zachman replied that
they ranged from 5600-8500 sq. ft. with an average of 6600 sq'. ft.
Mr. Don Hess commented that it sounded like a fiscal zoning discussion, He thought
that all uses were factored-in, in the begiinningland that this project is just a part
of the total Edenvale plan.
Action:
Lane moved, Schee seconded, to recommend the approval,of Summer-woods II as
outlined in the Staff Report dated January 31 , 1974 , and the. Engineering Report
dated February 1, 1974. The motion carried by a vote of 5 ayes, and I nay vote
by Fosnocht.
Mr. Sorensen added that it was not a fiscal zoning issue but that there are fiscal
implications.
Planning Commission Minutes -3- Feb. 19, 1974
B. Lake Eden Heights, by Eden Land Corporation, single-family plat of 192 lots
located in the Edenvale South PUD.
The Planner reported that a staff report was not available since the concept plan had just bee
approved by the Council and he hoped to have it by next week. He felt it
improper for the Commission to take action until the Council acts on the PUD.
Mrs. Schee asked if there were any questions on Resolution 4810.
Sorensen questioned why under recommendation 18 a , it did not state a reassess-
ment policy with interest,back. to Edenvale. Putnam said that the Council placed it
in the resolution and the City plans to develop the park within a year. Mr. Peterson
added that they were not happy with the 15 years but it appeared the best solution
for both parties . Lane raised a question about the easement issue previously
discussed and the Planner directed him to Exhibit C, item 4 , adding that a policy must
be clarified by the City as to what is reasonable for all areas.
Action:
Sorensen moved, Schee seconded, to continue the public hearing untilthe March 5th
meeting. The motion was carried by an unanimous vote.
WORK SESSION. No action on any of these agenda items.
A. An up-date and presentation by staff of preliminary analysis of Crosstown
extension from I-494 to Shady Oak Road.
Mr. Putnam reported that needed information on traffic volumes had not yet been
received from the county and state, so he would prefer to delay the Crosstown
discussion until the material is received.
B. Presentation of issues related to the height of buildings in the community.,
Discussion ,yith. City Staff and Gold Medallion Corporation regarding building
styles in Shady,Oak PUD in northeastern Eden Prairie.
Mr. Putnam reviewed the recent action of the Council which approved the Master's
Condominiums, two -3 story buildings . The recent controversy is over whether
or not 4 or more story buildings are appropriate outside of the MCA, and the
significance of a 45 foot height restriction if only 3 stories can be JaAlt.
Discussion followed concerning the various shapes of the buildings and the intention
behind the Council's action.
Mr. Lynch did not want it construed that there could be no 6 story buildings,
but such buildings might be approgtteupon a given site.
Mr. Sorensen believed that the height of the buildings, being above the tree-line
• was. significant because 7 months out of the year the trees would be leafless.
He agreed with Mr. Lynch that the Master's site was not 'benefitted by a 6 story building.
Planning Commission Minutes -4- Feb. 19, 1974
Fosnocht asked Mrs . Schee what the Commission was expected to produce lydm
this discussion. She responded that the purpose was for the Commission to view
what can be done with variations of buildings at sites by viewing the visual aides
presented by the Gold Medallion Corporation representatives .
Mr. Sorensen asked Mr. Gustafson, President of Gold. Medallion if they still
intended to build their home office on the site. He responded that they are about
80 % sure that they will construct the office on the site, and that the reason that
they could not build earlier was because the City did not see the justification
for extending services the 2 miles to the site..
Mr.Gustafson then presented the 2 building options: a 3 story building(of possible
masonry or frame construction), and a 5 story masonry building which,would be
shorter in length, closer to the pond, and better preserve theridge. He said they
favored the 5 story plan,which would cover 50% less of the site,than the 3 story
plan and provide more than 1 garage space/unit.
Brown asked if a sprinkler system would be installed. Mr. Gustafson said it is not
proposed;, instead each unit would be sleeved and isolatedby a normal lire wall.
Mr. Lynch questioned how the 45 foot height was arrived at,and if it was to stay
within the ordinance. Mr. Gustafson answered that the height is related to the site
and that it may be over 45 feet.
Chairwoman Schee asked for the Commissions reaction .to the models.
Mr. Lynch saw nothing detrimental or extremely exciting to either plan.
MR. Brown brought out the fact that the City Fire Department's ladder is only
3 stories high. Mr. Putnam said that sprinklers would be required if the F.D.'s
ladders were inadequate.
Mr. Lane's feeling was that he is open-minded to greater than 3 story buildings
outside of the MCA.
Mr. Putnam asked if it was the concensus of the Commission that they would
have no firm policy against 3 story buildings, and they would be willing to
evaluate proposals upon merit and not story height. All members responded
that over 3 story buildings would be possible on specific sites and Chairwoman
Schee directed the staff to write a position paper.
C. An up date of recent action which affect planning in the Lake Smetana Sector
and discussion of the time schedule for approvals .
Information related to Lake Smetana's relationship to the MCA, and the Valley View
Rd./18 interchange will be reviewed in the future. The Planner said Edinl: commented
about allowing the 18 interchange, with a west access and a partial east access,
which will serve the industrial area . Construction of the Shady Oak Road is
Planning Commission Minutes -5- Feb. 19, 1974
• dependent upon the land owners dedication of right-of-way, with the interchange
construction leginning in 1976.
Mr. Putnam is expecting a mid-March meeting with interested parties to discuss
actions which a ffect the Lake Smetana Sector. Notices will be mailed out to land
owners and residents prior to the meeting.
D. Discussion of requests by builders to relocate side yard set-backs as has
been done in single family lots in Edenvale & The Preserve.
Refer to : Mr. Bonner`s letter of February 12 , 1974.
Mr. Putnam outlined the implication of the 10` side-yard restrictions, especially
in RI-1 3. 5 subdivisions, and that developers are requesting variances for special
situations. He felt the building department wo uld just as soon revise theordinance
than.tn haVP tO avant so manv variations .
Bill Bonner, of Hustad Development Corporation, stated that every lot does not
require a variance but there were 2 situations in Creekwood where variations would
have been beneficial in better lot use ,or in saving trees .
Mrs. Schee did not feel that the ordinance should be amended because the City
can not expect all to use it properly.
The Planner felt that site coverage -and housing relationship is more mean-
ingful than stringent set-backs . He suggested the building department might
make the decision on allowing minor set-back variances . Mr. Bonner
said they would be happy to rely upon the staffs reasoning.
E. Preliminary discussion of potential "mini-sector" plan jor the Crosstown
Industrial Park along Co. Rd. 62 , north of Kings Forest. Presentation by staff
of concept and suggestion as to method for implementing owner and neighborhood
ice.
Slides and aerials of the area were presented by the Planner. In order for residents
to have safe and efficient access to the parks a road should be established from Birch
Island Road `north of Ponderosa to Baker Road, ,across 494 to Beach Road with its
final connection with Rowland Road. Mr. Putnam stated that the City does not favor
t'.e extension of Freeway 62 west of 494 , and that they can refuse it. Instead a
road could service the industrial area from 62 with restricted traffic to the I--2 area
and minimizing railroad crossings .
. A meeting will be held February 22, 1974, at the City Hall, 'in order to gain the input
from the landowners in the area.
Planning CommiS:3ion Minutes -6- Feb. .19, 1974
Mrs. Schee directed the Planner to inform the Commission about the result s of the
meeting.
F. Status report for Round/Duck Lake Sector planning that was delayed last year.
Progress report concerning Hidden Ponds and park planning in the area.
It was reported by the Planner that this matter was delayed last year due to time
spent on the MCA planning and other projects . He hoped to finish the planning
and ne:i.ghborhood meetings within 2 or 3 months .
III. PLANNING COMMISSION CHAIRWOMAN`. S REPORT MRS. SCREE.
A. Joint meeting with Council.
Chairwoman Norma Schee informed the Commission that a.-iagenda would be prepared
for the joint meeting and if members wished to place an item on the agenda they
should contact her before Friday.
B. Special lunch tours for special projects.
Because of the previous interest in lunch tours Mrs. Schee suggested the continuation
of such lunch tours. It was the consensus of the Commission that the tours would
be beneficial.
C. Special Planning Seminars at Normandale Jr. College.
Starting Saturday, March 23rd, through the end of April,sessions will be held
at the College; interested Commission Members are urged to attend. The cost
will be paid by the City.
IV . ADJOURNMENT.
Lane moved, Schee seconded, to adjourn the meeting at 11:10' P.M.