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Planning Commission - 02/07/1977 - Joint Meeting APPROVED Imain,S JOINT PARKS, REC. AND NATURAL RESOURCES =24ISSION AND PLMING & ZOIMIG 1001•2•1ISSION MTING MONDAY r F7;3 MAU 7, 1977 7 s 00 FM,0ITY HALT PA%S, REC. AND 1UTUFAL RFrSOURCES Chairman Marvin Erickson, William Garens, MI.2-IISSION MBERS PRESF M �ieneva Middleton, Richard Anderson, Randy Retterath, Paul Choiniere, and Steve Fifield MMMS FJICUSED s Jerry Kingrey M 900 ABSENTS Francis Helmer, Mary Upton and Tim Pierce PLANNING & ZONING C044ISSION MOMS P ESMs Chairman Don Sorensen, Richard Lynch, Rod Sundstrom, William Bearman, and Herb Fo sno cht MF2OERS ABMT: Norma Schee and Sidney Pauly STAFF PRESI'Ms Director of Community Services, Marty Jessen Planning Director, Dick Putnam pTHMS PR ESM3 Tom Bartel, E. P. Nears, Mr. & Mrs. James Bubbtz, R. D. Taiss, Ray N. Welter, Sr., Ray Welter, Jr., Jim Ostenson.-Larry Griffith- & Wally Hu"d, Hustad Development, Roy S. Olson, Mrs. G. Offerman, Mrs. Dorothy Menalis, Leo Dorf, Helen Fovler, Werner :3. Schulze, Jim Brown, Bob Brown, Don Brauer- Brauer Assoc. Inc., Sharon Holaad, and Mrs. Nancy Heinen Chairman Erickson called the meeting to order at 7#05 PM. I. AP PRO AL OF �A Fosnocht moved to approve Agenda as published. Garens seconded. Motion carried unanimously. II. DISCUSSIONOF PI�RY ERAMM Chairmn Erickson turned over the Purgatory Creek discussion to Jessen. Jessen gave brief presentation relating to the lower Purgatory Creek area, i*dch lay to the vest and south of Co. Rd. 1.9 and sF�+ke to potential develop- ment proposal by the Lustad Development Co.. He spoPe to the c miasion of Brauer & Assoc. inc. to conduct a study of the Purgatory Creek, wMch revealed nine basic sectors and the possibilities of implementation. He said four of the sectors are cosapleted as parkland or ether development. Jesscn referred "Al ::;�tcs Tc r nt M & NR and Planning, Com. Page two Approved February 7, 1977 is to reeonaendations from the Study which included management program of the Lower Purgatory Sector. He turned over discussion to Planning Director,Putnam. Putnam spoke to the liustad proposal and their need to know wha L Lhvy oaa 00 arui What kind of time schedule they have, and that it is critical that the City makes a decision on this sector. He continued that we have two options which area development as proposed by the Hustad Development Go., that represents a private option; and land along the rim of the creek as public, with some development space. He asked whether all felt it was a significant resource that sbeuld be protected and managed or left as a development site. He asked the two Commissions to discuss these two alternatives tonight. He turned over the floor to Mr. ,Tally Hustad to review what they were attempt- ing to do. E Hustad agreed to the need to protect the creek valley, and comtaented that the question was how it is to be done. , he said that he represents the feeling that it is best protected by being privately owned, because it is beyond the capability of the City to accomplish this. He continued that he felt there uould be a need for fencing and for maintenance, and that you Will have more people enjoying the creek by having these live along the creek, with proper restrictions# such as required at Creek Knolls. He added that he feels that the public will destroy the area if they are allowed in, and also apoke to significant tax base for the City through the expense of the homes along the rim. Hustad, referring to the oonservancy zone, pointed out that 80 lots would be elirf mated through use of .:his lire. ® Jessen spoke to the tax impact, stating that 100 homes with average market value of - 90,000 and based on 1976 taxes would be $289,100 for one year, He asked for questions and comments. Planning Commissioner Bearman asked what steps would have to be taken to determine Whether there was need for a fence; what kind of usage would take place; access points and whether there was a way of entering without disturbing the wildlife. Jessen res- ponded that he felt because of character there would be no need for a fence, and that if it is properly laid out and it turns out that there is a need, a fence can be pro- vided alone this whole area. He added that they had problems with fencing along one portion of Anderson Lake, and he feels that situation is working fairly well at this time. He added that the uses would be ouch as cross country skiing and no motorized vehicles would be allowed. He continued that it order to accomplish public recreation, we have to invest in public land within transition zone as indicated in Study. Jessen said that there would be a couple of access points, that would be severely limited and would be vary primitive. Bearman asked whether there were any figures available as to hov wary people would actually use this area. Jessen spoke to the Richfield Mood Lake Mature Center, where presently about 60,000 to 75,000 people pass through thou entrance per year. He added that he feels it is too large of a number for the Lover Purgatory Creek area. Jessen opened the floor to the public. Dorotby 2-1enalis, 9715 k311 Creek Dr,, expressed her concern that the police patrols xould not be able to get into an area such as this, and spoke to the mounted police that Bloomi-igton uses and itn lack of success. Jessen responded that they have dis- cussed thic with the Public Safety Dept. and they are cone-wned with non-authorized persons getting in, and that ih the creek bottom area there would be no way for the police to get in, but in the upper rim section there would be road access. Minutes -- Joint PR & ZIR C0=9 _ Page three and Planning & Zoning Com. Approved February 71 1977 OMr. Ray Welter, Jr. , Pioneer Trail, spoke to loss of taxes and asked whether they had extended their thinking to -the future loss, and where the City would get the money to vurchase land. Jessen said that their calculations. based on their best guess rather than market value, showed that the cost would be 3.3 to 3.5 million doll cars for acquisition on the non flood plain land in the conservancy and transition zones. He added that they cannot make e:sessment of tax 103s for the rest of the creek because we do not know what kinds of development would occur. He spoke to grant sources from LAWOON and SNR, with possibility of funds from Metro Council and Riley Watershed District. Welter asked about requirements of City in order to receive these funds. .lessen answered that the City would have to agree to buy powerline, and. not to discriminate against race, color, creed etc. . He added that some of the other parks owned by the City were funded this way, and the Council sets the policy for them, with limited requirements. Erickson asked whether he felt policing ;could be more difficult in an area like Purgatory Creek. Jessen responded affirmative. Hustad added that the present problem was quite serious and special patrols were necessary already. A'Sr. James C. Bublitz, 10720 Co. Rd. 18, asked whether the landowners have anything to say about this matter. Jessen responded that the Purgatory Creek Study was pre- pared by Brasier & Assoc. Tne. and that the decision is now before the City to adopt, modify, or whatever other action needs to be taken, and that the decision will be made by the Council upon recommendation of the PR & NR and Planning Commissions. Menalis asked whether the effects of development runoff on the raising and lowering of the Creek had been studied. Putnam responded that no work had been done on this, but he felt that erosion control costs would be substantial. Fosoocht que3tioned Putnam why there was no half va;' position where the landowners get what they want and the City gets the protected area. Putnam responded that there were all sorts of "in between" solutiins if the people are interested. Jessen added that in order to apply for grants, you need to have the whole picture. Flanning Comissioner Lynch inquired about ownership of property on east side of the proposal. Jessen answered that there were about five owners fairly close, with several further down. Various options on cost vs. benefit was discussed in response to Sorensenis comment that he had thought one of the charges given the Commissions was to evaluate private or public options,&what effects they would have on funding sources. Helen Fowler, 10315 Riverview Rd., expressed her concern against bringing the public into the area. She felt that private landowners would do a better job of protecting the Creek. She spoke to recent robberies she had experienced, and added that she did not think that a recreation area as proposed Would bring in bird vatchera� but criminal elements. i r r f 2,,inute:. - Joint PR & IM "om. P%."e Four and Planning & Zoning Com. Approved February 7, 1977 Anderson commented thnt he ' A one of the people `-w lives on a small lot, and is not able to 8n iA? a n area ..r4+`, ,.A I Al 4 'a a...-.....i^ r � , s He added that he felt that th ~ ere were manypeoFre such as he who were just as con- cerned about the protection of a reseturce of this kind. Fowler said she felt that receiv►ig federal funding only cost us m re in taxes. S:,e addec that the people who dre will;n& to pay for land mich as this are willing to protect it. Anderson responded to example of a party getting out of hand; by speaking to one of the causesfor present problems on parkland. He said he had talked to persons in Bloomington, and because they have tightened restrictions with the use of the mounted policem6n, we are receiving the brunt of this with young people coaa3.ng into Eden Prairie for their parties. he spoke to Richfield Nature Center and the fact that there is relatively no vandalism that goes on and he fet:ls that many young people have. a lot of respect for this area. ' - Hustad commenced that the Richfield NAWe Center is a very controlled wildlife center and that is the kind of controls wE ::; need to have. f Middleton commented that she had lived ..rou n all of this b living '�� g' y near Anderson Lake and there were many calls made to the police before it was park land, and that now;most of the parties do not happen here. Hustad pointed out that -the areas were different, and that Anderson Lake did not � have a public; road all along the area, with the need there to regulate feve_rel accesses. r He added that different controls are needed for a ravine than for around a lake. Putnam responded that today, without many neighbors around, there is a serious pro- blem of people coming into area, but that with more development you have more barking dogs and activity, which would not be a protection for wildlife. Bob Man, 10010 Bennett Pl., expressed his di val of the proposed plans. Jim Brown, 11551 Rivermiew Rd., spoke as a 40 yr. resident of the area, and expressed his opposition to using the land for the public. Be spoke to large amounts of money spent by present landowners because of washouts etc.., and felt that people would not only go through access points but through fence$ or wherever they can get in, causing more washouts and problemap because the 'isnd is very m=W and fragile. He added that if you let, people in, the wildlife will leave, and felt that you must keep people out of the lower valley area. Garens commented that we all seem to be in agreement that this is a very fragile area, but we are not in agreement to the solution. He felt that if we roach sc,=a type of compromise of development on the bluffs, severe restrictions will have to be put oti. Anderson said that the wildlife is what we are ocncerned with, and suggested trailwaf„y up abon without going down into the vallay,Axith no homes overlooking it. Putwo spoke to the problem -hat Hustad or homeowners would not be able to afford to set their homes back because the Creek is su broad. He acid the proposed plan does go down from the shores. He added that if you can't build there and the City cannot buy it, what do we do with it. Putnam continued that if you are trying to protect it from top of rim to other side, it is probably not Nair to ask the homeownera Minutes - Joint PR & t"R Cor. Page Five and P lanning & Zoning Oom. Approved February 7, 1977 to pay for all of it. he said that somebody should buy it, it is the only fair way, and that it is going to be developed if it isn't used for a perk* hustad spoke to problems if City used transition zone, wiping out 55 across of land. He said there i-mulci be problems of long cul- e-sacs with restrictions, --rid the impossi- bility of running roads at a 10� slope, because houses have to be at the same level as the street. Planning Con- issioner Sundstrom asked what the typical lct size along the Creels was. Bustad replied two per acre and maybe three to four in open areas. Fowler expressed concern of overpopulation of Eden Prairie, commenting that there would probably be more children, causing increase in taxes for more schools and more services. Anderson commented that one of the things he vas t_-ying to get across was that if we allow developers to build right up to the edge of the valley, gullies will have to be filled in etc.. fie said �re are trying to use the transition zone to bring develop- ment back away from the rim and its purpose is to preserve this area, and he feels it is the only way. Fowler suggested that the Commissioners contact Mr. Wilkie to show them his pictures of the wildlife in the area and said they would have a grprt insight into what that wbole area is about. I4enalis questioned the song for acre lots. Putnam responded there was R1-22,(one- half acre nininra)and what it is today, which is Rural, =five acres miniimem). Sorensen added that Uere %ac a need for more residentia.i zoning categories, and this is being considered in the ur4ate of the CwVrohensive Guide Plan. FUTIOHs Pmswcht moved to adjoin at 9ti,% Pm., and suggested that the Planning Coin. aDd PR and M Co=aLasiov include the issue on their Agendas and consider separately, advising the Council, giving pe*pl.e- present an opportunity for conments or reyorts. Sorensen seeon<]ed. Motion carried unanimously. Submitted by, Dmnm Sta cloy, Recording Secretary