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Planning Commission - 08/17/1982 - Joint Meeting APPROVED MINUTES JOINT CITY COUNCIL/PLANNING COMMISSION TUESDAY, AUGUST 17, 1982 6:00 PM, CITY HALL COUNCIL MEMBERS: Mayor Wolfgang H. Penzel , George Bentley, Dean Edstrom, Paul Redpath and George Tangen PLANNING COMMISSION MEMBERS: Chairman William Bearman, Virginia Gartner, Bob Hallett, Dennis Marhula, Elizabeth Retterath, Grant Sutliff and Hakon Torjesen PLANNING COMMISSION/CITY COUNCIL STAFF: City Manager Carl J. Jullie, Planning Director Chris Enger, Director of Public Works Euguene A. Dietz, Director of Community Services Bob Lambert, City Attorney Roger Pauly, and Recording Secretary Karen Michael ROLL CALL: all were present I. APPROVAL OF AGENDA AND OTHER ITEMS OF BUSINESS MOTION: Bentley moved, seconded by Penzel , to approve the Agenda as published. Motion carried unanimously. II. COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE PLAN - a blueprint for "planned growth" A. NEED FOR GROWTH B. PLAN FOR GROWTH 1. Street System 2. Land Uses a. Balance between open space, housing and business b. Balance of housing type and opportunity Penzel noted the above had been presented as a stimulus for thought and would not necessarily be discussed in order given. He said the reason for the Joint Meeting between the Planning Commission and the City Council was because the Mayor and City Council felt there was the appearance that the two bodies were drifting apart. It was felt there was a need for communication on the City's position. as to the policies under which it operates and the precepts under which it works. Penzel stated he had discussed the mode of operation of the Planning Commission with Chairman Bearman in light of concerns which had been raised by residents. Penzel said he had asked the City Attorney to make available a City Attorney to sit in on Planning Commission Meetings for the next few months to provide the necessary expertise .on rules of procedure, if the Planning Commi.s- sion members so request. d Joint Meeting: Council/Planning -2- August 17, 1982 Bearman said the Planning Commission noted neighborhood problems and concerns are different from area to area and some times do not match community goals. Penzel said he believed this to be self interest on the part of a few rather than the broader interest of the neighborhood. At times the neighborhood's general interest was not represented at all . Bearman said the City must develop a transportation plan for the community. Bentley stated the issue at the moment is that of connecting neighborhoods. He said he sees the Planning Commission as a scientific body which, based on scientific criteria such as the City's Ordinances and the Guide Plan objectives, reviews a proposal and makes recommendations based on that criteria -- staying out of the political realm (i .e. responding to the needs of a par- ticular group. ) Bearman said he would tend to agree with that assessment with the addition of a couple of items: the Planning Commission interprets those criteria and, because of the broad base of the Commission, varying views are expressed in interpreting those criteria. Torjesen said the Planning Commis- sion does not always have guidelines as to how to interpret what comes before it. The Commission has to be more than scientific -- it is made up of honest citizens who call it the way they see it. Gartner said if a Public Hearing is called for then the citizens should be listened to and heard. Penzel reviewed some of the confusion which was expressed by the Council and which resulted in the necessity for this meeting. Penzel stated the minutes reflect what happened at the meeting. Torjesen said the Commission must pay more attention to the minutes. He noted that Commission members pride themselves on the ability to have others change their minds. This at times creates some confusion or adds to it. Sutliff said proponents should be requested to show more than just the area they are dealing with so- the Commission would have a better idea as to what the effect will be on surrounding properties. Edstrom said he would advocate that. Tangen said City Staff should be responsible for this; Staff should cooperate with the developer to do this. Sutliff noted a recent problem he had where he needed assistance from Public Safety. Public Safety was "locked up" in a neighborhood and the response time was longer than it might have been had neighborhoods been connected. Retterath said she felt the developer had an obligation to furnish the Commission with the information he had regarding the surrounding area -- he may have more information at that point than the City has. Marhula said there are two methods of review used by the Commission: one is from a city planning standpoint and the other from a site planning standpoint. -It was Marhula's feeling that .there was a tendency for the Planning Commission to look at it more from a site planning standpoint and it should be looked at more from a city planning standpoint, ' Hallett noted the problems in dealing with adjoining proposals when they are not addressed jointly or related to each other. Redpath said the consequences of the actions should be explained by Staff to the City Council and the Planning Commission (i .e. the impact on sewer and water facilities and the plans which were made for this and other public facilities. ) � 1 Joint Meeting: Council/Planning -3- August 17, 1982 Penzel said regarding the "Need for Growth" , whether we personally think it is a desirable thing or not, all of the financing presently in place for public utilities (i .e. sewer and water) was premised on substantial - continued growth until at least the year 2000. Gartner said then the City should only look at developers who are not asking for additional sewer and water facilities. She said she had been told by Staff that there is no need for forced growth. Redpath asked if there was any way to find out the impact in the reduction of the number of units in The Preserve. City Manager Jullie said assessment rates were projected on a connection rate of 400 - 600 units per year. Up to this point the City has done very well . Jullie said the concern now is the type of housing which is being built -- there is less single-family and more multiple-family housing. Torjesen asked if projections might be available as to the costs of paying for sewer and water facilities -- i .e. if growth is less than projected , and more than projected, what would it do to the tax bills? The implications of growth should be addressed. Redpath suggested a seminar for Commissions and the Council at which time basic questions might be answered. r Tangen noted the Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission had not seen the projects until they had been seen by the Planning Commission -- this had not always been the case, but in several instances the Parks, Recre- ation & Natural Resources Commission has had a positive impact on what has ultimately been proposed. He suggested perhaps the Planning Commission and the Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission hear major proposals at the same time. He felt the Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission should see the proposals earlier on in the process -- the night before a Coun- cil meeting is sometimes too late because it precludes any interchange between Commissions before the proposal comes to the Council . Director of Planning Enger said the procedure was requested by the Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission because changes were often requested by the Planning Commission and these were then reflected in the proposal brought before the Parks, Recreation & Natural Resources Commission, Bearman said more proposals are being presented which need a great deal of review -- the Commission can get hung up on any one issue from PUD to -rezoning. He wonders if Staff even has enough time to adequately review these proposals because during the past year or two there have been so many. Torjesen said he has commented from time to time that certain proposals should not have come before the Commission but that Staff, he felt, had been pressured into bridging them. Penzel requested Finance Director Frane to prepare a report on the concerns raised this evening.. He said City Manager Jullie had asked Jim Clark from the Public Safety Department and Bhil Mathiowetz, Fire Marshal , to discuss public safety access between neighborhoods and the need for connections between neighborhoods. Jim Clark said it is very frustrating to be within view of a place to which a call is to be made and yet have to drive five miles to get there, He said a life might be saved if connections were to be made between neighborhoods, Phil Mathiowetz said it is hard to figure out addresses at 3 a.m, Cul-de-sacs present a problem just due to their length in some cases, Single access to a neighborhood is bad -- it is difficult to get equipment in and out, A single access which is blocked by one type of emergency vehicle or emergency can delay or preclude accessibility to another emergency. Joint Meeting: Council/Planning -4- August 17, 1982 Enger said a consensus on minor roads should be developed. There are over i 400 cul-de-sacs in the City and the Public Works Department would like to see restrictions on further development because they are hard to maintain. Enger said he had discussed the response time situation with Director of Public Safety Hacking who told him the response time is low now because police officers take police cars home with them and respond to emergency calls during off-duty hours. Access into and out of an area is crucial from a life/safety standpoint. Torjesen said he felt people like to live on cul-de-sacs; in nice, little, small neighborhoods. He felt it was the job of the Planning Commission to provide these for the residents. Hallett noted the dialogue tonight had been helpful to him as a relatively new member of the Planning Commission. Retterath felt that the good of the City is not as important as the views of the people. She thought the best interests of the City should be the concern of the City Council . Tangen said while he lives on a cul-de-sac he can see a real need for two ways in and out of a neighborhood and interconnections between neighborhoods. Tangen said he would like to make a recommendation to the Planning Commission expressing the Council 's desire to have neighborhoods connected by road systems. Bearman said there were lots of people in Eden Prairie who thought this was going to be a bedroom community without a lot of industrial and commercial development. He thought it might be a good idea to clarify that. III. PLANNING COMMISSION'S ROLE, CITY COUNCIL'S ROLE Bentley said we should be aiming at long-range goals. He does not think the Planning Commission' or the City Council should redesign the developer's plans for an area; minor modifications could be made during meetings, but anything major should be redone by. the developer and presented at another time. Edstrom felt the relationship between the Council and the Planning Commission during his term on the Council has been very good. IV. BALANCING THE NEEDS AND DESIRES OF A NEIGHBORHOOD AGAINST OVERALL COMMUNITY NEEDS AND DESIRES Bearman noted that six or seven issues were raised during the codification process which the Planning Commission would like to address. Tangen said he , thought these would be looked at once the process is completed. City Attorney Pauly noted there have been few substantive changes in the zoning ordinance since he has been City Attorney; it might be valuable to reexamine portions of the ordinance in the near future. Bentley asked that another Joint Meeting of the Planning Commission and City Council be held soon. V. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 7:25 p.m. .