Planning Commission - 03/08/1993 • EDEN PRAIRIE, PLANNING COMMISSION
APPROVED MINUTES
MONDAY, MARCH 8, 1993 7:30 PM CITY HALL COUNCIL CHAMBERS
7600 Executive Drive
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Tim Bauer, Ken Clinton, Cynthia Clish, Katherine Kardell, Doug
Sandstad, Edward Schlampp, Mary Jane Wissner
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVE: Lisa-Marie Gualtieri
STAFF MEMBERS: Mike Franzen, Senior Planner, Deb Edlund, Recording Secretary
I. ROLL CALL: Bauer and Clish absent.
H. SWEARING IN OF NEW COMMISSION MEMBER ED SCHLAMPP
Ed Schlampp was sworn in by Mike Franzen.
M. MOTION:
Clinton moved, seconded by Wissner to approve the Agenda
as published. Motion carried 4-0-0.
IV. MEMBERS REPORTS
Kardell reported that the housing goals and recommendations would be presented to the City
Council at their March lb, 1993 meeting.
V. MINUTES
VI. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. VILLAGE KNOLLS 2ND ADDITION by Wooddale Builders. Request for PUD Concept and
PUD District Review with waivers on 19.1 acres, Zoning District Amendment in the existing
R1-13.5 Zoning District on 19.1 acres, and Preliminary Plat of 19.1 acres into 44 single family
lots. Location: East of the Intersection of Homeward Hills Road and Silverwood Drive adjacent
to Purgatory Creek.
Franzen reported that the Village Knolls project had been approved 2 years ago and because of
concern regarding the area next to Purgatory Creek a PUD was required on the balance of the
property. A grading and utility plan were approved. The original recommendation was that no
Shoreland Ordinance variances would be needed. The plans being presented tonight are the
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detailed plans for Phase H. The plan is similar to the original with less tree loss and one less
lot.
Randy Hedlund, Hedlund Engineering, presented the plans for the 44 lot subdivision. Lot 16,
Block 2 was combined from 2 lots into 1 lot and some of the lots were widened. The overall
tree loss is 12%. Some significant oak trees would be lost. The proposal has the same layout
as approved before. The builder proposes to construct the development in two phases with the
first phase to begin this spring if the plan was approved. Hedlund stated that
rear yard storm sewer systems would be installed to handle the run-off from the homes. Hedlund
stated all of the homes would be full walkouts with the exception of the two corner lots which
would be daylight window homes. He added that Phase 2 would also be full walkouts with the
two corner lots being daylight window homes. The slopes to the creek are 3 to 1. There will
be no utility construction within the creek bottom area.
Schlampp asked if the storm water outlet would be a 42" outlet. Schlampp noted that if this plan
were approved today a N.U.R.P. pond would be required. Schlampp was concerned about
erosion washout going into Purgatory Creek. He was also concerned about the steep slopes in
Phase I. Schlampp noted that Lots 1 and 2 did not have storm drains. Hedlund replied that Lot
16 would drain directly into a catch basin. Schlampp was concerned about two driveways being
created on an already busy street. The driveways for Phase II, Lots 1 and 2 would also create
more curb cuts. Schlampp noted that Phase II, Lots 1 and 2 had been under water during the
1965 floor because the land is very low in this area. Hedlund replied that the walkouts were
proposed to be 20 feet above flood level. Steve Schwieters, builder for the project believed that
some improvements had been made to the culvert system in this area. Schlampp believed that
the same 24" culvert directed the water under Homeward Hills Road.
Franzen reported the property was rezoned single family in 1977 with only a small portion being
platted. The plan meets City Code requirements. Franzen noted that 2 variances for street
frontage would be required. Franzen added that these variances had been identified at the time
when the original plan was proposed. The project meets Shoreland Ordinance requirements.
The 12% tree loss is low; the average tree loss for projects is 30%. Franzen stated that some
of the lots along Homeward Hills Road would require a significant amount of fill. Reforestation
would be required along the creek corridor. A sidewalk would be located along one side of
Chesholm Drive. Franzen reported that some concern from neighbors had been expressed
regarding the trail next to the area along the creek corridor. Franzen noted that a turn-around
area would typically be required for Lots 1 and 2 which have the direct access onto Homeward
Hills Road.
Clinton asked for clarification on allowing the construction of homes on the 16 lots which are
in the "no build" Conservancy Area. Franzen spoke to the philosophy of the Purgatory Creek
master plan and that development adjacent to the creek has been negotiated and the conservancy
area doesn't have a legal basis. He added that the greatest encroachment would be along
Homeward Hills Road. Franzen believed that there would be enough area between the creek and
the grading area where natural vegetation would still be seen.
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Norm Ziesman, 10087 Horseshoe Trail, stated that currently a silt fence exists along his lot. He
• noted that his sod had washed away 3 times and would be replaced again this spring for the 4th
time. Ziesman said that erosion is a serious problem in this area. Ziesman stated that he was
not against the development but, wanted protection against further erosion problems from the
development. Hedlund replied that the contours would be lower than the current property line
and the new lot would be graded lower than the existing lot. The hill in this area would be taken
down. Ziesman said that if he understood the plan correctly then he would not be looking up
at the new homes but they would be more level with his home. Ziesman was concerned about
the speed of the traffic along Homeward Hills Road which he believe to be between 40 and 45
MPH. Ziesman asked if there was any way to reduce the speed so that the children in the
neighborhood could have safe access to the park. Ziesman stated that he had a child in a
wheelchair and asked if safe access could be provided to the park for the handicap.
Kardell asked if curb cuts could be made so that wheelchair access would be available to the
park. Franzen replied that he would communicate this request to Park&Recreation Department.
Kardell asked if the Planning Commission should make a reference in the recommendations for
the request. Franzen replied that it would be helpful for the Planning Commission to also voice
the request. Kardell encouraged the neighbors present this evening to also attend the City
Council meeting and make their concerns know and to also contact the Police Department
regarding the speed of the cars in the neighborhood. Kardell noted that the Planning
Commission could not regulate the speed limit for additions.
Wissner asked if a traffic study had been done on this road lately. Franzen replied no, but that
• collector roads in Eden Prairie are designed based on guide plan density and that this project is
less dense than the guide plan, so from a capacity standpoint Homeward Hills road can handle
the traffic volume. Franzen suggested that additional catch basins could be recommended if the
water did not flow off the property quickly to help control the erosion problem. Ziesman
believed that the hill being taken away would also help the erosion problem.
Kathy Marcotte, 19965 Runnel Circle, asked what the plans were for the area for the creek
corridor next to Lot 1. Hedlund replied that the bridge would not change. An 8-foot bituminous
trail would be developed along the outlot. Hedlund stated that the existing culvert pipe would
be extended out past the rear lot line for Lot 1. Hedlund noted that the trail could not be
constructed without the extension of the culvert pipe.
Schlampp stated that this area of the creek corridor was a large wetland area.
Marcotte asked if trees would be taken out in the corridor area. Hedlund replied that no trees
would be impacted beyond the property line.
Marianne Fielder, 19975 Runnel Circle, stated that a tributary from the creek runs under the
culvert. She added that this area was very wooded and created a natural barrier because of the
large trees and bushes. Fielder was concerned that only a small row of trees would be left
standing. Fielder believed that the extension of the culvert would only add to the speed of the
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water flow. Fielder stated that she would like to see as much of this area preserved as possible.
Fielder recommended that the home on Lot 1 be moved back as far away from the lot line next
to the corridor as possible. Fielder believed that a bike trail could still be built. She added that
the trees provided a natural wind break. Fielder noted that the homes along the tributary pay
creek taxes for easements. Fielder presented a picture of what the wetland area looked like after
a rain.
Hedlund asked Fielder if the culvert was draining water from the park. Fielder replied yes.
Hedlund replied that he did not believe that shifting a lot line would help anything.
Hedlund asked Schwieters what the price range was expected for the homes. Schwieters replied
the homes would range from $325,000 to $450,000 along the creek area and $260,000 in the
other areas.
Schwieters asked Hedlund how many feet the culvert would be extended. Hedlund replied
approximately 100 feet. Hedlund added that 113 of the corridor would be filled in.
Schlampp asked if the area being filled was considered a wetland. Franzen replied that it was
not clearly stated if this area was a wetland. Franzen added that there was concern about the fill
and how much affect it would have on Purgatory Creek. Franzen stated that there could be a
different grading plan which he had considered after speaking with Fielder regarding her
concerns. He had not had time to discuss any alternatives with the proponent prior to this
meeting. Franzen said there was a possibility with the shifting of some lot lines and the moving
of some building pads that the plan could be improved and trees could be saved.
Wissner stated that she would like to see a revised plan if it could be improved. Franzen replied
that because a certain number of lots had been approved originally the proponent and Staff had
tried to keep close to this figure. Franzen noted that reforestation was not the same as tree
replacement. Franzen added that reforestation was to recreate what had previously existed.
Schlampp asked if building was allowed in a 100 year flood plain area. Franzen replied that you
can fill with a flood plain area. He added that the Watershed District allowed filling if the water
flow was not affected. Schlampp questioned what would happen to the people in the homes
constructed in this flood plain area. Hedlund replied that he would request elevations be verified
with Barr Engineering. Schlampp replied that he did not believe the road elevation had changed.
Mary Ann Fielder, 11975 Runnel Circle, stated that he would like to see the trees saved in the
creek tributary area. Fielder was concerned about Lots 1, 2, and 3 which would be backing out
of the drive onto the road. He believed this was a safety issue.
Cynthia Thiese, 11758 Tanglewood Drive, asked what would happen with the natural drainage
if the hill was taken down. Hedlund replied that the watershed would be limited to the backyards
of the new homes. He added that the amount of watershed should be less than before because
the backyards from the new and the existing would be close to the same level. Thiese asked
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what trees would be lost. Hedlund replied a cluster of boxelder would be removed. Hedlund
added that fill would be added into the draw area.
Dave Fischer, 11965 Runnel Circle, asked if the 12% tree loss was only significant trees or trees
in general. Franzen replied that significant trees were 12" in diameter or better. He added that
a detailed tree inventory had been done and the majority of the large trees were in the area close
to Tanglewood Drive. Fischer encouraged Staff to investigate further the flood history of this
area. Fischer questioned the judgement of putting 20 feet of fill in an area. Fischer asked if any
covenants would be established. Schwieters replied that there would be an architectural control
committee and a homeowners association. Fischer stated that he would like to keep as many
trees as possible for a noise and wind barrier.
Ziesman asked if the hill would be taken down 15 feet. Franzen replied that the lowest elevation
would be 4 feet higher than the lowest level. Ziesman asked that the elevations be verified
because there was a swale which ran from the south to the north. He added that a swale can
only handle so much water and, therefore, you need to either widen the swale or install a storm
water sewer system. Franzen stated that the proponent would be required to match grade at
property lines. Ziesman stated that he would like to see the swale at the lot boundary. Hedlund
replied that he would look at the swale issues after the Preliminary Plat was approved.
Clinton stated that the plan needed modification. He added that the plan is workable but needs
to have more work on specific details.
iWissner stated that Lots 1 and 2 needed to be looked at further. Wissner was concerned about
the amount of fill being used.
Schlampp also believed that Lots 1 and 2 needed to be addressed. Schlampp believed in
N.U.R.P. ponds and believed that one should be required even though it was not part of the
PUD approved earlier. Schlampp believed that it was basically a good plan.
Kardell concurred that the flood history of the for Lots 1 and 2 needed to be addressed. Kardell
questioned the straightening out of the tributary creek and its affect on the water flow. She also
questioned how the plan could be revised to place the trail so that the current vegetation would
not be extensively disturbed. Kardell was concerned about the 2 driveways with direct access
to Homeward Hills Road but, believed that they would be acceptable if the turn-arounds were
provided. Kardell suggested that handicap accessibility to the park be provided.
Wissner believed that the revised plan should come back to the Planning Commission.
Hedlund asked if it would be acceptable to approve Phase I and table Phase H for the revisions.
Franzen believed that the residents would like to feel comfortable with the resolutions.
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Schlampp believed that there wasn't anything in the plan which could not be resolved and
recommended approving the plan with the request to resolve the issues before City Council
review.
Wissner stated that she would be more comfortable if the final plan returned to the Planning
Commission at the next meeting to show the corrections made to the plan.
MOTION 1:
Clinton moved, seconded by Wissner to close the public hearing. Motion carried 4-0-0.
MOTION 2:
Clinton moved, seconded by Wissner to recommend to the City Council approval of the request
of Wooddale Builders for PUD Concept on 19.1 acres based on plans dated March 5, 1993, and
subject to the recommendations of the Staff Report dated March 5, 1993 with the following
additions: 1. Research flood history on Lots 1 and 2. 2. Investigate affects of straightening
the tributary to the creek. 3. Investigate trail placement along tributary to limit the disturbance
of the vegetation. 4. Recommend turn around area be provided for Lots 1 & 2 which have
driveway access to Homeward Hills Road. 5. Recommend handicap accessibility be provided
to the park. 6. Work out acceptable drainage plan for Ziesman property. Motion carried 4-0-0.
MOTION 3:
Clinton moved, seconded by Wissner to recommend to the City Council approval of the request
of Wooddale Builders for PUD District Review and Rezoning from Rural to R1-13.5 on 19.1
acres based on plans dated March 5, 1993, and subject to the recommendations of the Staff
Report dated March 5, 1993 with the following additions: 1. Research flood history on Lots
1 and 2. 2. Investigate affects of straightening the tributary to the creek. 3. Investigate trail
placement along tributary to limit the disturbance of the vegetation. 4. Recommend turn around
area be provided for Lots 1 & 2 which have driveway access to Homeward Hills Road. 5.
Recommend handicap accessibility be provided to the park. 6. Work out acceptable drainage
plan for Ziesman property. Motion carried 4-0-0.
MOTION 4:
Clinton moved, seconded by Wissner to recommend to the City Council approval of the request
of Wooddale for Preliminary Plat of 19.1 acres into 44 single family lots based on plans dated
March 5, 1993, and subject to the recommendations of the Staff Report dated March 5, 1993
with the following additions: 1. Research flood history on Lots 1 and 2. 2. Investigate affects
of straightening the tributary to the creek. 3. Investigate trail placement along tributary to limit
the disturbance of the vegetation. 4. Recommend turn around area be provided for Lots 1 &2
which have driveway access to Homeward Hills Road. 5. Recommend handicap accessibility
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be provided to the park. 6. Work out acceptable drainage plan for Ziesman property. Motion
carried 4-0-0.
VII. OLD BUSINESS
VIlI. NEW BUSINESS
Schlampp asked if it would be possible to get the plans the Friday before the meeting. Franzen
replied plans that Staff are working from could be sent out prior to the Friday before the
meeting; however, changes are often made at the last minute which would not be reflected on
these plans.
Schlampp stated that it would have been nice to have had a preliminary statement from the
Watershed District regarding this plan. Schlampp added that he had spoken with Chanhassen and
the Watershed District approves plan before the Planning Commission. Franzen replied that it
could be possible to get a preliminary response.
IX. PLANNERS' REPORT
X. AWOURNMENT
MOTION:
• Clinton moved, seconded by Schlampp to adjourn the meeting at 9:35 PM. Motion carried 4-0-
0.
AGENDA
EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMNIISSION
Monday, March 8, 1993
7:30 p.m.
COMNIISSION MEMBERS: Tim Bauer, Kenneth E. Clinton, Cynthia Clish,
Katherine Kardell, Douglas Sandstad, Edward
Schlampp, Mary Jane Wissner
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVE: Lisa-Marie Gualtieri
STAFF MEMBERS: Chris Enger, Director of Community Development;
Michael D. Franzen, Senior Planner; Donald Uram,
Planner; Deb Edlund, Recording Secretary
I. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE -- ROLL CALL
H. SWEARING IN OF NEW COMMISSION MEMBER ED SCHLAMPP
M. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
IV. MEMBERS REPORTS
V. MINUTES
VI. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. VILLAGE KNOLLS 2ND ADDITION by Wooddale Builders. Request for
PUD Concept and PUD District Review with waivers on 19.1 acres, Zoning
District Amendment in the existing R1-13.5 Zoning District on 19.1 acres, and
Preliminary Plat of 19.1 acres into 44 single family lots. Location: East of the
Intersection of Homeward Hills Road and Silverwood Drive adjacent to Purgatory
Creek.
VII. OLD BUSINESS
VIII. NEW BUSINESS
IX. PLANNERS' REPORTS
X. ADJOURNMENT