Planning Commission - 02/27/1995 APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMMISSION
February 27, 1995
COM MSION MEMBERS: Tim Bauer, Kenneth E. Clinton, Randy Foote,
Katherine Kardell, Douglas Sandstad, Edward
Schlampp, Mary Jane Wissner
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVE: Matthew Mahoney
STAFF MEMBERS: Michael D. Franzen, Senior Planner
Don Uram, Economic Development Manager
Elinda Bahley, Recording Secretary
I. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Chair Katherine Kardell.
Absent were Wissner and Bauer; all other members were present.
II. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Clinton moved, seconded by Sandstad, to approve the , .genda
published. Motion carried 5-0-0.
III. MINUTES
MOTION: Sandstad moved, seconded by Clinton, to approve the Minutes of
February 13, 1995 as amended: page 7, second paragraph should read: Sandstad
noted that the City did not have any ordinances regarding restrictions on buildings
next to single family homes, such as colors or the number of stories, as long as
it didn't exceed the City's maximum height. There is also no policy regarding
restrictions on single family homes. Page 6, third paragraph, Clinton expressed
concern... speeding limit should be changed to speed limit. Motion carried 5-0-
0.
IV. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. AMERICAN LUTHERAN CHURCH 2ND ADDITION by Hustad Land
Company. Request for Comprehensive Guide Plan Change from Church to Low
Density Residential on 5.49 acres, Zoning District Change from Public/R1-22 to
R1-13.5 on 5.49 acres and Preliminary Plat of 7.79 acres into 13 lots and 3
outlots. Location: SW Corner of Bennett Place and Pioneer Trail.
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Uram introduced Beth Simenstad, who will give a brief presentation, after which
Staff will review the Staff Report and listen to neighborhood concerns.
Beth Simenstad, representing Hustad Corporation, reviewed her project with the
Planning Commission. She explained that one of the site constraints was the
location of a possible regional NURP pond, and that they tried to use it as an
advantage. She noted that the anticipated tree loss is at 125 caliber inches or
62%, and the replacement will be at 102 inches. She commented on
neighborhood safety concerns, such as, the location of the entrance to this project,
and the current traffic speed.
Clinton referred to the location of the NURP pond on the sketches, and
questioned whether or not the ash trees in that area have been planted. Simenstad
replied that she does not know. They were not planted by anyone that she knows
of. She noted that there are only 14 significant trees on the whole site.
Sandstad asked if they attempted to redesign a plat that would cut the tree loss
down. Simenstad responded that they have not redesigned another plan.
Uram noted that constructing a NURP pond in this area is beneficial for everyone
involved. It helps drainage in this particular area, plus it provides pre-treatment
of storm water which is a regulation that is enforced on all projects. Because of
the design and amount of grading necessary to develop the site, tree loss is 125
caliber inches. After viewing the site, Staff believes that the tree loss may
actually be less when the project is built. There are other sites in the City that
have tree losses of 62%. It depends on where the trees are located and how the
project is designed. Staff believes the amount of traffic generated by the church
and 13 single family homes will not significantly affect the neighborhood. Staff
is recommending approval of the project subject to the recommendations in the
Staff Report.
Clinton questioned the drainage problem with the church. Uram replied that the
entire church property drains along the north side of County Road #1 to the low
area that is proposed with this plan as a NURP pond. This project is designed
to pick up the drainage from the church in a catch basin system and pretreat the
storm water.
Vince Kelly, 9900 Windsor Terrace, presented the Commission with a petition
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of 22 signatures in opposition of this project, but not in opposition of the
development of the land. He expressed concerns about the dangerous traffic
conditions this project will create, including the dangers he has from his
driveway. He noted that the plan will destroy beautiful ash trees at the corner of
Pioneer Trail and Bennett Place. They provide beauty to the neighborhood as
well as a shield of noise. He feels a more sensible approach would be to access
the development from Bennett Place and build a cul-de-sac between proposed Lots
3 and 12.
Clinton commented about his own experience at the site, and does not feel the
suggestion of the access to the development would alter safety conditions.
Kelly noted that it eliminates a dangerous intersection up on Blossom Road.
Steve Andert, 9722 Purgatory, noted he has similar concerns as Mr. Kelly. He
expressed concern about the way the traffic is draining out of Bennett Place on
Pioneer Trail. He is more concerned about the proposed development accessing
Blossom Road, and about Bennett Place and Pioneer Trail. He is also concerned
about Lots 7, 8, and 9 obstructing viewpoints when looking east on County Road
1. They will not be able to see anything at all. He commented on the dangers
of the NURP pond without any fencing because there are a lot of children in the
area. He is concerned about the overflow and where it will go.
Randy Hedlund, developer's engineer, addressed the concerns about the NURP
pond. He noted that the pond itself is designed according to Federal guide lines.
He said that the first 10 feet in the water is a drop of one foot, and after that it's
3:1 slope. The pond would probably be no more than six feet deep. Regarding
the fencing, he does not know what the City's policy is on that, and doesn't know
if they would do that. He does not agree with the views being blocked. He said
it's all overgrown ashes and brush and feels the view will be better. He
commented on the street grade noting that it's at an 8% grade and that's what the
City allows.
Foote questioned the design of the plan. Randy Hedlund replied that there are
25 acres and it is a good opportunity to use this parcel that has been tax-forfeited
for years for a NURP pond.
Uram noted that Staff reviewed the plans originally submitted which had the street
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coming up from the bottom, and Staff's recommendation was to change the access
to Blossom Road.
Brad Sanvick, 9714 Purgatory Road, noted that his house will be directly
across from the pond. He expressed concerns about his children's safety with
regard to the pond, the dangerous traffic conditions, and the outbreak of
mosquitoes as a result of this pond. He also shared safety concerns about Mr.
Kelly's driveway.
Kulwant S. Modi, 9877 Bennett Place, expressed concerns about the tree loss
and concerns about the traffic conditions on Bennett Place.,He would like to see
the area remain an open woods area. ;
Mark Hutkev, 9833 Bennett Place, expressed concerns about% the safety of his
children regarding the pond, and what type of outlet there is for the pond. He
suggested this site to be a park with a playground instead of a pond, since there
are no playgrounds within walking distance. He also expressed concerns about
the traffic conditions on Bennett Place.
Mike Mom, 11180 Blossom Road noted that he lives where Blossom Road
intersects with Bennett Place, and expressed concern about the high speed at the
crest of the hill making it a very dangerous intersection. It said it is safer to put
the intersection at the bottom of the hill where there is visual distance that adds
to safety.
Jane Kelly, 9900 Windsor Terrace, noted that she is the owner of the home
with the steep driveway. She is speaking as a mother on the safety issues
involved. She said she has lived there for seven and a half years and all the
water is coming from Olympic Hills Golf Course. She has never seen any
problem coming off the north side where the church is. It's always just a mass
amount of water coming on County Road 1 making it very slippery in the
springtime.
Clinton asked if the sight distance coming out of Bennett Place, in either
direction, meets City standard. Uram replied that the intersection was approved
years ago. Staff did not check the sight distance because they assumed it was
checked previously when the whole project was designed. In his opinion, the
sight distance will only get better with the development of this project.
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Schlampp noted that the NURP pond is not a mosquito breeding pond. He does
not know of any ordinances in Eden Prairie that states that NURP ponds should
be fenced. NURP ponds are constructed on a very, very gradual slope in case
children do go into it. This way they will not fall into it. He is happy to see a
NURP pond going in because it is a necessity. It does wonderful things and
keeps sedimentation out of Purgatory Creek.
Sandstad noted that he understands how the visibility at Bennett Place and Pioneer
Trail will improve because of the removal of trees. The NURP pond is necessary
because it improves the storm water quality. They are seeing them on all of their
developments. Regarding the safety issues, the road is no steeper than they
allow. The grade on the proposed roadway is reasonable. He expressed concern
about alternative plans because he doesn't feel this is the best plan.
Foote concurred with Sandstad about this not being the best design. He doesn't
see how the traffic is going to be any better. The NURP pond has to be there
because they provide a function that is necessary. He noted that he has two small
• children and has a NURP pond across from his home. It bothers him but he
knows it must be there.
Kardell noted that the reason for the pond being there is because that's the
natural drainage for the site, and in order to have an adequate size, this is where
it's best suited.
A resident proposed putting another entrance on County Road 1. This way the
Department of Transportation would be able to come out there and reassess the
traffic and lower the speed limit.
Schlampp stated that the development should go ahead. He noted that fencing the
NURP pond would only make it difficult to get at a child that has fallen in
because they are actually blocked off by the fence.
Clinton noted that the NURP pond is required for runoff into any natural water.
He expressed concern about the speed limit in Eden Prairie because people always
have a need to drive 20 to 25 miles faster than the limit. Every project has a
problem with speed and you have to separate it from the project. He does not see
a problem with the road design being an 8% grade. He supports the project as
it's traffic designed, and noted that the issues of traffic must be addressed
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February 27, 1995
somewhere else.
Sandstad expressed concern about the tree loss and asked if anyone shared his
concerns.
Kardell noted that she looks at it as a trade-off of the trees versus the pond. It's
either the City's water standard or their tree policy. She would rather treat the
water going into Purgatory Creek.
Foote does not feel it's necessary to have the developer redesign the plans and
lose the NURP pond, nor does he see an advantage by putting the road across
Purgatory Road. He supports the project.
Sandstad asked if the developer has any interest in fine tuning on their own
initiative where tree loss would be concerned, and where additional improvements
in visibility could be considered near Pioneer Trail and Bennett Place. Simenstad
stated that the issue of sight distance has not been addressed.
• Foote expressed concern about setting a precedent regarding the tree loss, a 62%
tree loss, to have a pond.
Clinton suggested having the Engineering Staff look at additional stop signs at
Bennett, in addition to the study of the site.
Uram noted that the City is very reluctant to put stop signs in because people are
always asking for them. From the tree standpoint, he doesn't believe the
Commission has to worry about setting a precedent. They have tree loss statistics
indicating tree loss percentages from 100% down to 2%. With regard to the
traffic situation, the City needs to take a look at the couple of issues that were
raised
MOTION l: Schlampp moved, seconded by Clinton, to close the public hearing.
Motion carried 5-0-0.
MOTION 2: Schlampp moved, seconded by Clinton, to recommend to the City
Council approval of the request of Hustad Development Corporation for
Comprehensive Guide Plan Change on 5.49 acres based on plans dated January
26, 1995, and subject to the recommendations of the Staff Report dated February
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24, 1995. Motion carried 4-1-0 with opposition by Sandstad.
MOTION 3: Schlampp moved, seconded by Clinton, to recommend to the City
Council approval of the request of Hustad Development Corporation for Zoning
District Change from Public/R1-22 to R1-13.5 on 5.49 acres based on plans dated
January 26, 1995, and subject to the recommendations of the Staff Report dated
February 24, 1995. Motion carried 4-1-0 with opposition by Sandstad.
MOTION 4: Schlampp moved, seconded by Clinton, to recommend to the City
Council approval of the request of Hustad Development Corporation for
Preliminary Plat of 7.79 acres into 13 lots and 3 outlots based on plans dated
January 26, 1995, and subject to the recommendations of the Staff Report dated
February 24, 1995. Motion carried 4-1-0 with opposition by Sandstad.
B. BLUFFS EAST 16TH by Hustad Development Corporation. Request for
Comprehensive Guide Plan Change from Low Density Residential to Medium
Density Residential on 1.69 acres, PUD Concept Review on 210 acres, Planned
Unit Development District Review on 12.88 acres, Rezoning from Rural to RM-
6.5 on 12.88 acres and Preliminary Plat of 12.88 acres into 23 lots. Location:
Normandy Crest and Franlo Road.
Franzen introduced Beth Simenstad, representing Hustad Corporation, who will
make a brief presentation, after which Staff will review the Staff Report.
Beth Simenstad, representing Hustad Development Corporation, reviewed her
project with the Planning Commission. She noted that tree loss is at 32%, and
the tree replacement requirement is estimated to be 94 caliber inches. They have
agreed with the neighbors to plant 18 six foot trees along the property line which
is adjacent to the Bluffs East 7th Addition.
Mahoney asked what the cost of the homes are. The builder replied that the price
starts at $279,000.
Franzen reviewed the Staff Report with the Planning Commission, directing their
attention to the five primary issues. He noted that the tree loss compares
favorably. Regarding architecture compatibility with the surrounding area, stucco
and shake shingle would be consistent with the previous PUD in the area. The
storm water quality is different from the last proposal because of some existing
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circumstances. This is a situation where there is a large volume of water that
goes into the pond not pretreated. Faced with the requirements of what they do
with pretreatment ponds, they looked at an alternative location for this
pretreatment pond. This result in the loss of vegetation at the low portion of the
slope, or take out additional buildings to make it work. The amount of runoff
water is small. Staff recommends approval based on the recommendations of the
Staff Report as to option #1.
Sandstad referred to the 20 foot retaining wall mentioned in the Staff Report.
Franzen noted that it has changed with the shifting of the driveway a little to the
east. They were able to lower the height of the walls to 10 feet.
Schlampp asked if the pond is a wetland or a lake. Franzen replied that it's a
wetland. He noted that the DNR was out with the Engineering Staff and the
project developers last week to look at establishing a high water mark for the lake
because Staff is concerned about preserving the existing vegetation.
Schlampp expressed concern about putting in a pumping station in order to
maintain a level from the development that must accommodate runoff from
Highway 18.
Bill Kinnard, 9612 Falcon Way, expressed concern about the elimination of any
of these woods because it is going to completely devastate the natural
environment. They built on this lot because of the natural setting because the
trees created privacy and sound barrier from the highway. When they purchased
their lot, they paid a premium price because they were told nothing would be
built on these woods.
Foote asked if they purchased their house from Hustad. Kinnard replied that they
didn't.
Clinton asked if they have woods on their lot. Kinnard replied that they have a
few trees. The woods actually becomes a part of their lot visually. Their lot is
on the edge of the woods.
Roger Perldns, 9624 Falcons Way, expressed concern about the trees in front
of them being maintained, and a development being built at that site. They were
told that these two things would not happen when they purchased their home. He
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also expressed concern about the amount of noise when the City continues 169.
Marion Nutter, 9648 Falcons Way, expressed concern about the tree
replacement not being the same as the original trees. This area will not leave
much for the wildlife in the area.
Douglas Preston, 9664 Falcons Way,, noted that he was the first resident to
move into this development on Falcons Way and has seen all the development
take place. He expressed concern about the building of 22 homes rather than 13
as he was originally told, and that they would not go up into the woods. He said
that this is one of the most beautiful places in Eden Prairie and does not want to
see it destroyed. He is not in favor of putting up another wall because they need
to keep the environment fresh. He is also opposed to putting in new trees
because it takes long for them to grow.
Sandstad noted that the City's 30% general rule for tree loss is adequate enough.
This particular project meets the 30% tree loss requirement.
Marshall Anderson, 9652 Falcons Way, noted that he shares the same concerns
that the other residents have.
Jerry Lori, 9684 Falcons Wayti noted that he feels the development is fine and
that it's a great development. He expressed concern about the tree ordinance
being a crutch, and that it must include the height and density of the trees along
with the circumference.
Barbara Taft, 10437 Falcons Way, noted that she lives on the west side of the
pond and knew there were going to be townhomes built because they need the
buffers. She has lived there for five and a half years and has found that there
was drainage into the pond, but not an outlet. As a result, a number of trees
were lost because of too much water in the pond. There was no way to get rid
of excess water without pumping. There were about 30 trees lost and she didn't
know if this was included in the 30% tree loss. She noted that they have had
some significant tree loss already.
Schlampp noted that this is a Class 8 wetland and it naturally goes up and down
by nature. There is no way of controlling it except by a pumping station, which
Hustad is going to put in to maintain the level.
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Sandstad commented that the Guide Plan Change is reasonable and has no
difficulty with it. He noted that since they have met the tree loss requirement,
it would be difficult for anyone to oppose it. He supports the project.
Foote asked if there was any chance that the storm sewer station would be
moved. Simenstad replied that it has been moved and indicated where on the
map.
Foote noted that he supports the project. He also noted that he does not like to
see trees cut down even though these trees are not considered significant.
Schlampp commented that he supports the project.
Clinton asked if they have considered moving the last unit, which was discussed
this evening. Simenstad replied that they did on a previous plan several years
ago, but explained why the plan would not work.
• Kardell asked if there was a conservancy easement. Franzen replied that Staff
has recommended it in the Staff Report.
Sandstad suggested a visual indicator to determine where the conservancy
easement is.
Kardell noted that she has likes the plans and supports the project.
Jerry Lori noted that putting in a conservancy easement around the pond will
prevent them from using an aerator in there to keep the water blue or to get rid
of the scum.
Franzen commented that if the DNR allows them to do it, it is probably a
financial issue.
Paul Kobera noted that he spoke with the DNR about aerating the pond and told
them of the concerns about the algae in the water. The DNR told him that the
presence of duckweed is a good sign. To aerate the water provides grounds for
mosquito breeding. They would not disallow it if it comes down to the issue of
applying for a permit to aerate it, but then it's a financial issue.
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Franzen noted that aerating affects the oxygen levels, not the water quality.
MOTION 1: Sandstad moved, seconded by Foote, to close the public hearing.
Motion carried 5-0-0.
MOTION 2: Sandstad moved, seconded by Foote, to recommend to the City
Council approval of the request of Hustad Development Corporation for
Comprehensive Guide Plan Change from Low Density Residential to Medium
Density Residential on 1.69 acres, PUD Concept Review on 210 acres, Planned
Unit Development District Review on 12.88 acres, Rezoning from Rural to RM-
6.5 on 12.88 acres and Preliminary Plat of 12.88 acres into 23 lots based on
plans dated February 24, 1995, and subject to the recommendations of the Staff
Report dated February 24, 1995, and under Staff recommendation#4 add that the
conservancy easement will be visually indicated on each rear lot corner with 36
inch posts with the appropriate color. Motion carried 5-0-0.
C. DELEGARD COMMERCIAL by Curt and Duane Delegard. Request for
Zoning District Change from Rural to Neighborhood Commercial on 3.66
acres, Preliminary Plat of 3.66 acres into 3 lots, Site Plan review on 3.66 acres.
Location: Dell Road and Highway 212.
Franzen introduced Bob Smith, representing the proponent, after which Staff will
review the Staff Report.
Bob Smith, Planner, reviewed his project with the Planning Commission. He
noted that this is a continuation of a PUD done about a year and a half ago with
Centex. He said the front of the retail area will have pitched roofs. The brick
along the bottom of the third building is a rich dark red brown color to reflect the
building across the street, and the first building will be a speckled color. The
roof is dark and charcoal gray which gives a residential feel.
Clinton asked if this is a short term restaurant, such as a Pizza Hut. Smith
replied that they are looking at something like a Perkins Restaurant where you
can sit down for a little longer, but not a four course meal.
Kardell questioned the amount of gas pumps for the gas station. Smith replied
that there are four islands with three gas pumps on each, making it 12 pumps in
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total.
Sandstad asked if there was any way to enhance the rear elevation of the gas
station/convenience store. Smith responded that it backs up to 212 and the 212
right-of-way is going to be at least 310 feet wide. What they have done is just
left it plain and wrapped brick all the way around and left it as more of a utility
site. The highway is 20 feet below this site and felt the building would not be
visible.
Sandstad asked about the temptation of using signage in the rear. Smith
responded that he doesn't think it's possible with the Sign Ordinance. Franzen
noted that the Sign Code allows up to 15% of the face of a wall to be allowed for
signage, and that would be on each face of the building.
Sandstad asked if there is a Noise Ordinance that would handle the trash hauling
at 5:00 A.M. differently on commercial property than it does on residential.
Franzen replied that it's the same hour standard throughout the site regardless if
it's residential or commercial, and it is 6:00 A.M.
Franzen stated that Staff recommends approval according to the recommendations
of page 5 of the Staff Report.
Kardell asked about the time frame on Dell Road. Franzen replied that it's
supposed to happen this summer.
Dan Blake, representing Centex, noted that he feels the architecture of these
buildings are wonderful, and would like to assure the City that they have done
everything they can to let everyone know what's going on.
Sandstad stated that he commends the owner with a good job and supports the
plan.
Foote noted that it's a very nice plan and there are no significant trees that have
to be removed.
Kardell noted that the Commission would be concerned about material changes
in the design to accommodate the corporate needs.
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Sandstad suggested including a condition in the motion regarding the noise level.
Franzen stated that if they want to change the materials or the design of the
building, they would have to start over with a public hearing.
MOTION 1: Foote moved, seconded by Clinton, to close the public hearing.
Motion carried 5-0-0.
MOTION 2: Foote moved, seconded by Clinton, to recommend to the City
Council approval of the request of Curt and Duane Delegard for Zoning District
Change from Rural to Neighborhood Commercial on 3.66 acres based on plans
dated February 23, 1995, and subject to the recommendations of the Staff Report
dated February 24, 1995, with the condition that the noise level measured at the
adjacent residential property line not to be audible or not to exceed 50 DBA.
Motion"carried 5-0-0.
MOTION 3: Foote moved, seconded by Clinton, to recommend to the City
Council approval of the request of Curt and Duane Delegard for Preliminary Plat
of 3.66 acres into 3 lots based on plans dated February 23, 1995, and subject to
the recommendations of the Staff Report dated February 24, 1995. Motion
carried 5-0-0.
MOTION 4: Foote moved, seconded by Clinton, to recommend to the City
Council approval of the request of Curt and Duane Delegard for Site Plan Review
on 3.66 acres based on plans dated February 23, 1995, and subject to the
recommendations of the Staff Report dated February 24, 1995. Motion carried
5-0-0.
V. MEMBERS' REPORTS
Doug Sandstad thanked everyone that he has worked with for the last six years,
and noted that he has enjoyed being a Commissioner very much.
VI. CONTINUING BUSINESS
None.
VH. NEW BUSINESS
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None.
VM. PLANNERS' REPORTS
A. Doug Sandstad
Everyone showed their appreciation for having Doug as a Commissioner
for the last six years.
B. Planning Commission on TV
Franzen asked for feedback from the Commissioners about their concerns
of having the Planning Commission broadcasted on Cable TV. The
Commissioners agreed to wait until the new member is present.
C. Tree Committee
• Franzen noted that Scott Wallace has been accepted as the citizen
representative, Tom Boyce will be a residential builder, Brett Hope from
Charlson Property, and either Beth Simenstad or Wally Hustad
representing the commercial developer.
He also noted that the first meeting would probably be during the second
or third week of March.
Kardell nominated Foote and Schlampp as the regular members.
D. New Planning Commission Member
Franzen noted that the City Council at their last meeting appointed Ismail
A. Ismail. He will be sworn in at the March 13th Planning Commission
meeting.
E. March 13, 1995 Planning Commission Meeting
Franzen noted that he will not be at the next meeting and reviewed the
couple of projects that will be on the Agenda.
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IX. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Sandstad moved, seconded by Clinton, to adjourn the meeting.
Motion carried 5-0-0. The meeting was adjourned at 9:30 P.M.
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AGENDA
EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMMISSION
Monday, February 27, 1995
07:00 p.m.
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Tim Bauer, Kenneth E. Clinton, Randy Foote, Katherine Kardell,
Douglas Sandstad, Edward Schlampp, Mary Jane Wissner
STAFF MEMBERS: Michael D. Franzen, City Planner
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVE: Matthew Mahoney
I. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE -- ROLL CALL
H. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
M. MINUTES
IV. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. AMERICAN LUTHERAN CHURCH 2ND ADDITION by Hustad Land Company. Request
for Comprehensive Guide Plan Change from Church to Low Density Residential on 5.49 acres,
Zoning District Change from Public/R1-22 to R1-13.5 on 5.49 acres and Preliminary Plat of
7.79 acres into 13 lots and 2 outlots. Location: SW Corner of Bennett Place and Pioneer Trail.
B. BLUFFS EAST 16TH by Hustad Development Corporation. Request for Comprehensive Guide
Plan Change from Low Density Residential to Medium Density Residential on 1.69 acres, PUD
Concept Review on 210 acres, Planned Unit Development District Review on 12.88 acres,
Rezoning from Rural to RM-6.5 on 12.88 acres and Preliminary Plat of 12.88 acres into 23 lots.
Location: Normandy Crest and Franlo Road.
C. DELEGARD COMMERCIAL by Curt and Duane Delegard. Request for Zoning District
Change from Rural to Neighborhood Commercial on 3.66 acres, Preliminary Plat of 3.66 acres
into 3 lots, Site Plan Review on 3.66 acres. Location: Dell Road and Highway 212. (MIKE)
V. MEMBERS' REPORTS
VI. CONTINUING BUSINESS
VII. NEW BUSINESS - Cable TV Broadcast of Planning Commission Meeting
VH1. PLANNERS' REPORTS
IX. ADJOURNMENT
• APPROVED MINUTES
EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMMISSION
March 13, 1995
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Tim Bauer, Kenneth E. Clinton, Randy Foote,
Ismail Ismail, Katherine Kardell, Edward
Schlampp,Mary Jane Wissner
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVE: Matthew Mahoney
STAFF MEMBERS: Don Uram,Economic Development Manager
Elinda Bahley,Recording Secretary
I. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Chair Katherine Kardell. All
members were present.
II. SWEARING IN OF NEW PLANNING COMMISSIONER
Kardell administered the oath of Planning Commissioner to Ismail Ismail, and
• welcomed him to the Commission.
III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Clinton moved, seconded by Wissner, to approve the Agenda as
published. Motion carried 7-0-0.
IV. MINUTES
MOTION: Foote moved, seconded by Schlampp to approve the Minutes of
February 27, 1995 as amended: page 6, fourth paragraph, Sandstad expressed
concern about setting a precedent... Sandstad should be changed to Foote. Motion
carried 4-0-3 with abstentions by Bauer,Ismail and Wissner.
V. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. BOULDER RIDGE by Dennis Lunski. Request for Planned Unit Development
Concept Review on 27.1 acres,Planned Unit Development District Review on 27.1
acres,Zoning District Change from Rural to R1-13.5 on 11.40 acres,Rezoning from
-Rural to RM-6.5 on 3.8 acres and Preliminary Plat of 27.1 acres into 38 lots and 2
outlots. Location: N. of Mitchell Road,West of Boulder Pointe.
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• Perry Ryan, representing the proponent, reviewed his project changes with the
Planning Commission. He noted that through the reconfigured lots and reduced
density, they have reduced tree loss to 21%. There are 36 lots, not 38. They have
met setback requirements with the removal of 3 units. They have added a second
pretreatment pond on the southwest corner on the front yard and hard surface
drainage on Block 3. Access into the project has been relocated between Twin Lakes
Crossing and Cumberland Road,and this has been discussed with the City Engineer.
To improve the visual relationship to the existing wetland areas,they have removed
3 twinhomes and realigned Boulder Pointe Road. They have modified the width on
the lots on the western end of the development. In doing that, they were able to
reduce the tree loss to 21%. He noted that they did a lot size study of Boulder Pointe
and Boulder Ridge by looking at how far the rear lot lines went into the wetland.
They would rather leave the wetland outlot as large as possible.
Clinton expressed concern about the route to get to unit#1 in Boulder Place with the
extension of the driveway. Ryan showed the route on the map, and noted that they
met with the Fire Marshal and it does meet with his approval.
Ismail asked for an explanation of#12 on the map. Ryan replied that #12 is the
common area around the twinhomes area.
Clinton asked if the cul-de-sac meets the Fire Marshal's requirements. Ryan
• responded that it does.
Clinton questioned what the radius is. Ryan replied that the radius is at 40 feet,half
of what the minimum requirement is for the turn-around.
Uram reviewed the Staff s recommendations with the Planning Commission. He
noted that because this information is new to them, Staff needs a chance to review
the plan. However, Staff is recommending approval of the project subject to a listing
of recommendations that are listed in the Staff Report. Two things should be added
to that list of recommendations. In terms of the NURP pond next to unit#1, Staff is
concerned about the setback of the pond itself. Staff would like the opportunity to
look at that closer. Regarding item G, the sight distance information in the Staff
Report,Staff wants part of the recommendation to say that prior to Council approval,
the sight distance should be subject to approval by the City Engineer.
Julia Larson,8705 Mitchell Road,noted that they live across the road from the new
proposed project. She said that they were in Arizona at the time of the previous
meeting and were unfamiliar with what was going on until now. The triangular piece
of property that is part of the Boulder Ridge development, located east of Mitchell
Road,is adjacent to their property. She expressed concern about the maintenance of
the property because of the weeds. She said that they were told that if the property
• 2
• across the road from them would get sewer that it would be available to them. She
is concerned that they will not get sewer.
Uram noted that the property would be left natural. This is not the type of parkland
that the City would keep maintained. This is a question for the Parks and Recreation
Commission, and they meet on Monday night before the City Council.
Ryan commented that it is not feasible to have a sewer system. He said that it's about
20 feet deep,but once they drop grade and get to the end of the line, it's too shallow.
Uram noted that this is an issue to be raised with the City Engineer and he would be
happy to investigate it.
Scott Ross. 14898 Boulder Pointe Road,noted that concerns have come up from
the neighborhood meetings and the last Planning Commission meeting. He said that
the twinhome density is a big improvement to the extent that people are not opposed
to the twinhomes. He expressed concern about the density with respect to Boulder
Point Road. He said that in order to reduce tree loss at the west end of Boulder
Ridge, they have made the lots wider, but have necessitated narrowing lots at the
eastern end. He expressed concern about$385,000 homes all having 3 car garages
and looking like soldiers in a row. It will be very tight, especially on the north side
of Boulder Pointe Road. He also expressed concern about the aesthetics of the
. development.
Ryan commented that they have widened those couple of lots to try to preserve Lot
1,Block 2. They did not modify many because there was additional footages within
these lots that did not necessarily show up within that.
Clinton suggested that Mr. Ross look at the lots and homes in Boulder Ridge 2nd
because this will help him get a visual picture of how these lots will sit.
Bauer stated that he supports the project with a couple of reservations. He would
prefer that the Commission suggest that the matter be continued,but publish it for the
Council meeting in light of the NURP pond issue. He is also concerned about the
sewer and water as to whether or not there has been some misrepresentation in the
past.
Foote noted that he agrees with Bauer that it should be continued. He asked what the
pitch on the roofs are. Lunski replied that it's 8/12, and the back is 12. It's a lower
pitch which gives it more of an individual look.
Schlampp commented that he agrees with Bauer and supports the project.
• 3
Wissner supports the project but expressed concern about the vision lines. She
would like that to be addressed before the City Council. She is also concerned
about the Larson's being told that they would have sewers.
Ismail noted that the project is very nice but he would like to see all the changes
documented before it's approved.
Clinton stated that he agrees with Ismail and would like to see the site plan
resubmitted. He said that he is comfortable with the new plan.
Kardell commented that the Commission likes the changes but they generally will
not approve a project until they had a chance themselves to review final plans.
She wants to see final plans and they will publish it early for the Council meeting
so that the developers will not be unduly hampered in their timing. The
Commission wants to include in the Staff recommendations for the next meeting
Uram's suggestion with respect to the setback of the NURP pond, as well as the
sight vision distance data to be included.
Schlampp noted that he would like some input from the Engineering Department.
Uram replied that he will submit a memo from Al Gray, the Engineer.
MOTION 1: Clinton moved, seconded by Bauer, to continue for 2 weeks to the
March 27th meeting, with the direction to publish it to the City Council. Motion
• carried 7-0-0.
B. HIGH POINTE 2ND ADDITION by Builtwell Construction, Inc. Request for
Comprehensive Guide Plan Change from Low Density Residential to Medium
Density Residential on 4.98 acres, Rezoning from Rural to RM-6.5 on 4.98 acres
and Preliminary Plat of 4.9 acres into 16 lots. Location: Northwest Quadrant
of the Intersection of Pioneer Trail and County Road 4, south of the Senior
Center.
Dick Krier, planner, reviewed his project with the Planning Commission. He
noted that they have made some changes so there is no need for any variances.
There was a neighborhood meeting on March 1st and they have made several
changes from the Staff's original comments.
These are twinhomes in the $225,000 to $275,000 range. They are all on 6,500
square foot lots with double garages. The site provides transition from single
family homes of Cedar Ridge and transition to the Senior Center just to the north.
People who will buy these homes are empty nesters and there is attraction to the
Senior Center. He noted that they reviewed the Staff Report and concur with the
recommendations, but they are unsure of the sidewalks.
4
Uram noted that the sidewalk issue will be addressed at the Parks and Recreation
Commission.
Ismail expressed concern about the construction vehicles using the same entrance as
the Senior Center. Krier replied that the construction vehicles will not use that
access. Ismail expressed concern about the elevations. Krier responded that it's
slightly higher and he showed him on the map the different elevations.
Uram noted that this type of project has become fairly typical in Eden Prairie.
Wissner commented that over the last few years they have seen a lot of twinhome
developments in this price range,and she is beginning to feel a little discomfort that
these are being built. She is concerned for the future that they are not overbuilding
in a certain price range making it impossible for the empty nesters 20 years from now
to afford this.
Kardell noted that she is very uncomfortable with this, but she understands the
economics of it.
Foote said that he applauds Wissner for raising this issue because he has thought this
way for a long time.
• Uram stated these projects are built based upon supply and demand and the City is
not in a position to dictate the price of these units. The project as it is presented does
meet the ordinances and policies of the City of Eden Prairie according to the Staff
Report.
Wissner said that she made this statement because she wants it on the record, so that
10 years down the line they will know that the Commission was concerned and the
City knows their concerned. She commented that it's a lovely townhome complex.
She likes the design and it looks great.
Bauer noted that he's ready to support the project.
Bob Fafinski,8796 Cottonwood Lane,noted that he is the adjacent land owner. He
said the project looks fine but his concern is erosion problem caused by runoff along
the back of his property.
Krier commented that they are proposing a dry NURP pond and he showed him on
the map where it will be located. He said that it is used to hold the water for a short
period of time. Fafinski asked if there's a pond back in the woods area behind the
park. Krier replied that it's way over on the other side of the park.
• 5
Uram noted that they are still working on the drainage with the City Engineer, and
they should be able to resolve any problems.
Jeff Churns,9099 Gould Road,noted that he lives about 200 feet from the property
and he didn't know anything about the neighborhood meeting. He expressed concern
about the mention of a temporary cul-de-sac because that would be for quite a few
years. He said that having a black and white stripped sign would not be appealing
for the neighborhood. He also expressed concern that some of the trees have Dutch
Elm disease and sees a need for them to be dealt with and replaced. He also wanted
to state that he hoped approving a temporary cul-de-sac that any development on the
property would automatically be approved.
Krier apologized to Churns for not being notified,but they sent notices to the same
addresses listed as the City uses to give notices out. He commented that one of the
requirements of Staff was to provide a private road to the property for access, and
provide an easement to the Marshalls on that private road to get access. He said the
temporary sign will look very similar to a regular street sign.
Ismail asked about the sign for the project on the south side. Krier replied that it is
4 feet by 6 feet wide.
Clinton noted that each project must be reviewed and approved on it's own merit,and
• they are not rubber stamped. He said that he supports the project.
Ismail commented that he thinks it's a very nice plan and he supports it.
Kardell noted that she supports the plan.
Foote noted that he is frustrated with the high-priced single family homes being built.
MOTION 1: Bauer moved, seconded by Clinton, to close the public hearing.
Motion carried 7-0-0.
MOTION 2: Bauer moved,seconded by Clinton,to recommend to the City Council
approval of the request of Builtwell Construction, Inc. for Comprehensive Guide
Plan Change from Low Density Residential to Medium Density Residential on 4.98
acres based on plans dated March 10, 1995, and subject to the recommendations of
the Staff Report dated March 10, 1995. Motion carried 7-0-0.
MOTION 3: Bauer moved,seconded by Clinton,to recommend to the City Council
approval of the request of Builtwell Construction, Inc. for Rezoning from Rural to
RM-6.5 on 4.98 acres based on plans dated March 10, 1995, and subject,to the
recommendations of the Staff Report dated March 10, 1995. Motion carried 7-0-0.
• 6
MOTION 4: Bauer moved,seconded by Clinton,to recommend to the City Council
approval of the request of Builtwell Construction, Inc. for Preliminary Plat on 4.9
acres based on plans dated March 10, 1995, and subject to the recommendations of
the Staff Report dated March 10, 1995.
VI. ELECTION OF OFFICERS
MOTION: Schlampp moved, seconded by Wissner, that the present officers
continue their term and they close the nomination. The officers to continue are
Kardell as Chair,Bauer as VIce-Chair, and Clinton as Secretary. Motion carried 7-
0-0.
VII. MEMBERS' REPORTS
Schlampp commented that Tree Ordinance requirement of 6 foot conifers is too
small. Conifers that size grow about 2 or 3 inches a year. It will take years and years
for them to get to the appropriate size. It should be at least 8 to 10 foot conifers.
Uram noted that there are 2 things happening here, one is the Tree Preservation
Ordinance and the other is the Landscaping Code. The developer is working off the
Landscaping Code so he is within the requirement.
. Kardell commented that all the mechanical equipment from the Victory Lutheran
Church is out in front and it should be screened.
VIII. CONTINUING BUSINESS
1. Continued Discussion of Cable Broadcast of Planning Commission Meetings.
IX. NEW BUSINESS
None.
X. PLANNER'S REPORTS
Uram gave an update on development projects that will be on the Agenda for April.
XI. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION:Schlampp moved,seconded by Ismail,to adjourn the meeting. Motion
carried 7-0-0. The meeting was adjourned at 8:30 P.M.
7