Planning Commission - 01/09/1995 __ APPROVED MINUTES
go EDEN PRAIRIE PLANNING COMMISSION
January 9, 1995
COMMISSION MEMBERS: Tim Bauer, Kenneth E. Clinton, Randy
Foote, Katherine Kardell, Douglas
Sandstad, Edward Schlampp, Mary
Jane Wissner
STUDENT REPRESENTATIVE: Matthew Mahoney
STAFF MEMBERS: Michael D. Franzen, Senior Planner
Elinda Bahley, Recording Secretary
I. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE - ROLL CALL
The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Chair Katherine Kardell. All
members were present.
H. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION: Clinton moved, seconded by Schlampp, to approve the Agenda as
published. Motion carried 7-0-0.
M. MINUTES
MOTION: Schlampp moved, seconded by Wissner, to approve the Minutes
of November 28, 1994 as amended: on page 3 Foote's name is spelled wrong.
Motion carried 7-0-0.
MOTION: Schlampp moved, seconded by Bauer, to approve the Minutes of
December 12, 1994 as published. Motion carried 6-0-1 with Kardell
abstaining.
IV. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. CEDAR BILLS REGISTERED LAND SURVEY by Lynn L. Charlson.
Request for Preliminary Plat of 196.27 acres into 4 tracts. Location: Spring
Road.
Franzen stated that the Planning Commission previously asked Staff and the
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developer to resolve the removal of billboards. Most of the discussion was
40 held between Brett and Tracy Hope, and Bob Lambert, Director of Parks and
Recreation Department. There is a memo in the packets from Bob Lambert
which states that the billboards are not going to be a part of the option
agreement. Any further lease on the billboards would run on an annual basis.
At the time of a subdivision or sale or gift of the remaining property, the City
will deal with the billboard removal.
MOTION 1: Sandstad moved, seconded by Clinton, to close the public
hearing. Motion carried 7-0-0.
MOTION 2: Sandstad moved, seconded by Clinton, to recommend to the
City Council approval of the request of Lynn L. Charlson for Preliminary Plat
of 196.27 acres into 4 tracts based on plans dated December 7, 1994, and
subject to the recommendations of the Staff Report dated January 6, 1995.
Motion carried 7-0-0.
B. HARTFORD PLACE RETAIL 1995 AMENDMENT by Ryan Companies.
Request for PUD Concept Amendment on 17.89 acres, PUD District Review
on 17.89 acres, Zoning District Amendment in the Commercial Regional
Service District on 17.89 acres, Preliminary Plat of 17.89 acres into 4 lots and
Site Plan Review on 17.89 acres. Location: Prairie Center Drive and Prairie
Lakes Drive.
Franzen stated that when the packets were put together last week, Ryan
Companies asked for a two week continuance. Due to the Carsons' purchase
by Dayton's, and Mervyn's moving across the street to the mall, Ryan
Companies decided to withdraw the project.
MOTION 1: Clinton moved, seconded by Foote, to close the public hearing
and return the plans to the developer without prejudice. Motion carried 7-0-
0.
C. PIONEER RIDGE 2ND ADDITION by R. H. Development. Request for
Planned Unit Development Concept Review on 19.03 acres, Planned Unit
Development District Review on 12.13 acres with waivers, Rezoning from
Rural to R1-13.5 and Preliminary Plat of 12.13 acres into 25 lots. Location:
County Road 4 and Pioneer Trail.
Franzen stated that this was a project that started sometime last year but the
developer asked for a continuance. The developer asked to spend more time
with the City Engineering Department and Hennepin County looking at right-
of-way to see how that could be fit into the project. The Planning
Commission decided that rather than to continue the project, the public hearing
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• would be closed and a new public hearing scheduled once everything was
worked out.
Franzen introduced the developer, Ron Helmer, and the consultant, Wayne
Tower.
Wayne Tower, consultant, reviewed his project with the Planning Commission
using visual aids.
Sandstad asked if they have a plan showing the revised landscaping in that
area. Tower replied that he does not, but they will be upgrading the
landscaping.
Sandstad asked if Staff has any problem with the scheduled agreement.
Franzen replied that he didn't expect they would have more than half a dozen
or so trees that would go in there. He said he looks at this as a minor
modification of the plan.
Schlampp asked if there is a wetland and where does it drain? Tower replied
it will be a wetland and right now it doesn't drain anywhere. He said it will
drain out a storm sewer system that they are providing and drain north up into
that system. He said it will be in the pipe underneath between lots 16 and 17,
and then it goes into the street.
Franzen noted this is a piece of property that has been planned Low Density
Residential since the City put their first Guide Plan back together in 1968. He
said the proposal is for 25 lots, about 2 units per acre. All of the lots meet
the minimum lot size requirements of the R1-13.5 Zoning District. The
reason Staff spent more time looking at this project before passing it through
the public hearing process, is because they wanted an opportunity to resolve
the right-of-way and have room for county road expansion. Staff wanted all of
this put in the plans so when someone buys a lot they will know where the
road will be. Azalea Court was moved a little bit to the north and east so
there would be more room in the backyard for berming, and the planting
would provide a visual barrier to the future residents that will be purchasing
lots on this property. The Staff Report is for approval of this project with
minor modifications before the City Council. Some additional landscaping on
Lots #15 and #16 is required. There is a requirement for an additional catch
basin to help better drain the backyards. There has to be a drainage utility
easement over all the sewer and water lines.
Kenneth A. Lindemann, 15901 Corral Lanes expressed concern of the
impact of the catch basin to his property because he lives right next door. He
asked if there was going to be a water level maintained.
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Tower replied that there will be a water level maintained because that's part of
the system, and that's how water is actually checked as it passes.
Lindemann stated that they have lived there for 15 years and never had a
problem with the water, and expressed concern about the run off and the
additional landscaping needed. They also would like the record to note that
they have never had a problem with the water, and that if there is any problem
in the future somebody has to be responsible for it.
Tower replied that the pond has been increased in size so it will handle the
extra water. They have not thought about the landscaping except for putting in
top soil and plantings as a sod or that type of thing. He said eventually it will
start looking like a natural wetland.
Lindemann expressed concern about the safety of the children near the pond
because there are very young children in their neighborhood.
Tower replied that the design of the pond is such that the slope comes down to
the edge of the pond, and it will not be greater than 3:1. At that point the
pond turns into a 10:1 slope and that's where the water will normally be.
Once it moves approximately 20 feet, then it will become steeper again and go
to the bottom of the pond. Therefore, there's going to be 15 to 20 feet which
would be the safe area that will not be over their heads.
Nancy Nicklay, representing the estate of Harry A. Rogers, 16011 Lake
Shore Drive, stated that she comes before the Planning Commission for the
property across the street from County Road 4 which is her grandfather's, and
she is the personal representative for the estate. She expressed concern about
the number of traffic lanes on County Road 4.
Tower replied that ultimately it's going to be 4 lanes with a turning lane.
Franzen noted that there will be a median in the center of County Road 4 back
from the intersection up to Azalea Trail. He said if you are coming from
Pioneer Trail and wanted to go north on County Road 4, there will be a right
turn lane. That's why the County wanted additional right-of-ways. The
County has settled on the amount of right-of-ways they want on this piece of
property.
Nicklay stated that her concern is on the other side of the street where
whoever develops 4 1/2 acres of that property is also expected to do the road
services for Pioneer Park. She expressed concern with the way the road is set
up coming out to County Road 4, that it dumps all the burden of the roads to
Pioneer Park and to whatever develops on her grandfather's property, on to
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the developer of her grandfather's property.
Kardell replied that she understands her concerns on this, but that it doesn't
relate to this particular project.
Larry Johnson, 8947 Eden Prairie Road,, stated that he lives at the corner of
where the new road comes in off of County Road 4. He said from looking at
the plan it looks as though the road comes directly adjacent to his property.
He expressed concern about the grade changes that will occur on that property
line and what changes will happen.
Tower replied that they are going to have to review that a little bit, and they
are not going to do any grading on his property. They are not going to violate
his property in any way. If it is in the right-of-way and it does go over the
property line, it's possible that some of that will have to be taken out. He said
they have not reviewed exactly how much the grade change is going to be.
Clinton expressed concern about the wetland water running downhill to the
street at 898. He is having difficulty in seeing how it's going to get to the
street.
Tower replied that it will be a pipe and the pipe will be buried under the
ground.
Bauer stated that the last two speakers have significant issues and suggested to
them to consult with an attorney about their concerns.
Sandstad stated that the project works very well and has no difficulty with the
lot issues.
Kardell also stated that the project works well and has no problem with it.
MOTION 1: Bauer moved, seconded by Foote, to close the public hearing.
Motion carried 7-0-0.
MOTION 2: Bauer moved, seconded by Foote, to recommend to the City
Council approval of the request of R. H. Development for Planned Unit
Development Concept Review on 19.03 acres, Planned Unit Development
District Review on 12.13 acres with waivers, Rezoning from Rural to R1-13.5
and Preliminary Plat of 12.13 acres into 25 lots based on plans dated
December 14, 1994, and subject to the recommendations of the Staff Report
dated January 6, 1995. Motion carried 7-0-0.
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40 D. ADVERTISING ZONE SIGN REMOVAL
Franzen introduced Jean Johnson of the Community Development Department
who will give a brief presentation and afterwards, will answer any questions
the Commission may have.
Johnson gave a brief presentation and highlighted some of the important
issues. She stated that the Staff Report in the packets include background on
billboards in the City, and also inventory information on billboards. Attached
for the Commission's review is the portion that the new ordinance will effect.
It will eliminate Section 11.71 and amend Section 11.70. The City has had an
old code for a long time on the billboards, and over the years the City has
made some alterations. The code amendment adopted in 1984 envisioned the
removal of zones as property developed. The Council action in 1987 was for
no provision for future signs. The area along old 169 is zoned rural and
guided low-density residential. Billboards are inconsistent with
rural/residential areas. City Commission, Council, and the recent referendum,
have communicated the message that the bluffs along 169 are worthy
historically and aesthetically of preservation. Billboards do not blend with that
goal. Eliminating the Advertising Sign Code will prevent new billboard
permit applications.
Bauer asked what impact this has on existing signs and on somebody coming
in and wanting to put a sign in.
Johnson replied for the existing signs will be able to continue as they are.
What may cause removal is if there are new landowners, or when the site is
developed. She said if the City had a request for new billboards they would
have to inform the people that the City does not have an advertising code
anymore.
Sandstad stated that he is not a big fan of billboards in general, although they
are a function. He supports the idea of having them all removed from the
City, but not in any particular rush. This is a good step to take and he
supports it.
Michael Cronin, 8809 West Bank, does not agree that the billboard signs are
distractions. He said a distraction also is a car phone, a radio, tapes, and
talking. He doesn't feel this amendment will increase or decrease safety. If
there was a problem with billboards it would have manifested pretty quickly.
He passed out a summary which stated that they never found any report that
linked accidents to billboards. He said he would appreciate the Commission
dropping the safety issue because he doesn't feel that's correct.
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Schlampp stated he believes that billboards are good. He said the retail
business sign media has been excellent and has done a lot of good for the retail
business. It's an excellent method for getting to the public. It is not any more
dangerous than a car telephone. The only time he has seen a bad sign is when
they put flashers on it and which catches your eye, but they have banned that
everywhere. He supports billboards very strongly.
Foote stated that he agrees with Schlampp. He does not see any safety
problem.
Cronin replied that the safety issue comes out over and over again. The issue
is if this is the appropriate setting, are the ones on the one side better than the
ones on the river side of 169.
Wissner stated that the signage on 494 may not provide distractions, but 169 is
such a dangerous road to begin with. She said if making the highway safer
means taking down the billboards, then she can support it and can see where
the safety issue comes in.
Bauer stated that he does not think billboards need to be regulated in society.
He doesn't mind billboards and feels it's silly to regulate them.
Kardell stated that she has never had a billboard issue come up since she has
been on the Planning Commission. She has never been bothered by billboards
but that's also because there are not a lot of them in the City. She does not
have a problem with this particular amendment at all.
MOTION 1: Sandstad moved, seconded by Wissner, to recommend to the
City Council elimination of Section 11.71 and amendment to Section 11.70,
Subdivision A.1 to eliminate the Advertising Sign Zone and reference to non-
accessory signs. Motion carried 4-3-0 with Schlampp, Bauer and Clinton
opposing.
V. MEMBERS' REPORTS
A. Self Sufficient Proaram
Kardell stated that in the newspaper, Eden Prairie News, and the Sun Current,
the Self Sufficient Program is putting on a call for mentors to participate with
families that are going to be in this program. She said if anyone is interested
in working with a family they are selected to participate with support,
friendship, and getting those people feeling more a part of this community.
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VI. CONTINUING BUSINESS
Franzen stated that there is an 18 hole miniature golf course proposed to be
built in town by the Post Office adjacent to 169. He said they are working
with them to minimize the lights because there are apartments across the
street, and they are concerned about the impact it would have. Staff is also
concerned about holding them to a high enough standard because if they allow
this in, they then get requests for carnivals and go-carts.
He noted that Amoco is looking to purchase a portion of the Pioneer Ridge
property for a gas station, which is on the agenda for the next meeting.
He said that Ron Helmer has decided to start his project in May unless he
hears from Mark Namuedt. By April, he's going to go ahead with his project.
On the 25th of this month there will be a neighborhood meeting from all
neighbors within 1000 feet.
VU. NEW BUSINESS
Expansion of the Water Treatment Plant
Franzen stated that this is one of the first steps in the process of the water
treatment plant expansion. Before getting too far down the road, Staff is
asking for input from the Planning Commission and the City Council on
January loth on the general approach to the building architecture and site plan.
The Commission will have the opportunity to review all of the details of the
plan at the time of site plan review in the future. The Planning Commission's
comments will provide general direction to City Staff, much like a Planned
Unit Development Concept review. Staff wants to know what the Planning
Commission likes or doesn't like about the building and site plan.
Gary Tushie, reviewed the water treatment plant expansion using visual aids,
highlighting some of the main issues. He said that the aesthetics of the
building is the most important objective, to develop the site more aesthetically
pleasing and to the wetland environment. The new building should not look
like a warehouse. The existing building and the new building should be
blended together so they look like they were built at the same time. There is a
need to renovate the exterior of the existing building, but not in its entirety.
They want to create a design reflective of the design standard that the City has
enforced on other projects. The design should reinforce the character of the
downtown using similar design features of the existing building in the
downtown area, and the materials on those buildings as well. The design
should be conservative, yet dramatic, and have a character that will remain up
to date in the years to come. The new entrance should be easily identifiable
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and create a public friendliness. Lastly, the public phase on the new building
should accommodate a very active conservation program and recycling
program.
Kardell asked if the intent of the space is supposed to be a thought that there is
going to be some sort of cooperation with whoever is going to be touring, and
then be educated in interactive areas.
Tushie replied that the State of Minnesota has mandated that by January 1,
1996, each community must have an emergency and a conservation plan in
place. They are in the process of putting this emergency and conservation
plan in track with the architecture and design issues for the plan. It would
take a year to design this. They have been going through this process and the
primary focus of the conservation plan is educational component. They would
try to get the school system through so perhaps every fourth or sixth grader
will have a tour of this facility. They have a tremendous amount of tours at
the facility itself.
Sandstad asked if the City Engineer would be relocating his office to the new
building. Tushie replied that City Engineer's office will stay where it is now.
Clinton asked for a brief description of the amount of employees.
Gene Dietz, Director of Public Works, replied that there are 13 people that
do outside work right now, such as meter readers, and that part of the
operation will probably grow by half to 19. The current situation is 3 full
time operators, 3 shift operators, plus a day shift operator that fills in for
vacation time and sick leave time. They have 3 plant mechanics and also a fill
in for operations. There is a need to look at 2 operators per shift. The space
needed for administrator and office area is detailed.
Schlampp asked how are the people going to pay for this, such as taxes on
houses rising. He asked if the approval for this is through referendum or just
a bond issue.
Dietz replied that this is not by referendum. He said there are 3 ways to pay
for capital improvements. One is when the Commission approves the
development project they assessed it by the acre. When the building permit
comes through the building department, there is a sewer access charge and a
water access charge that comes to them. On the quarterly utility bill there is a
$12.50 flat rate on that, and half goes to sewer and half goes to water, but
expect that charge to rise.
Schlampp asked if any of the water goes into the storm water treatment.
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Tushie replied no, that it goes back to the plant.
Dietz commented that tours are available if anyone wants to come by for a
tour.
Clinton asked what the drive-way configurations were. Tushie explained it
using the sketches.
Sandstad asked if they expected any more landscaping between them and MTS.
Tushie replied that it is already very heavily landscaped.
Sandstad asked if MTS likes the new design. Dietz replied that some of the
features have been shared with the management and they have good responses
to it.
Schlampp asked what would happen if they drilled another six 24 inch wells
down into that particular area and pump the water up and didn't treat it. Dietz
briefly explained what they are doing.
Schlampp asked in the summer months, what portion of the water consumed of
the 16 million gallons is used for sprinkling and the rest used for human
consumption.
Dietz replied that their winter average is about 4 million gallons per day.
During this past summer their peaks got up to 12 or 13 a day. Water
restrictions have not been enforced because their summers are more like
Minnesota winters, and the need is not there.
Clinton asked if they will ever need another plant like this in the future. Dietz
stated that they will not need anything else.
Dietz stated that the total cost for this site is approximately 20 million dollars,
and the cost for this office space is 13% of the cost.
Bauer stated that everything looks great and that they did a good job in picking
up the picture that the Commission wants to see.
Foote stated that it's a really nice looking building and he really likes it.
Kardell said she was concerned when she saw the garage, that they don't want
people to be able to see that. Dietz replied that they will do everything
possible to properly screen up that area.
Kardell asked what is the timing of this project. Tushie replied that they
expect to work out final design procedures with this at the City Council
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tomorrow night, and the balance of the year will be spent drawing plans to
40 specifications. It will be a year to design and a year to construct it.
Kardell stated that the Commission prefers the second option. They concur
with whatever they can do to improve the relationship of Technology Drive,
and adjacent with the additional landscaping, and the screening of the garage
doors. She agrees with Schlampp that they have to be realistic of the fact that
it's going to be expensive for everyone no matter what happens here tonight.
She said they better really sell their conservation education aspect in order to
get people to sign on to that idea.
VM. PLANNERS: REPORTS
None.
IX. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION: Schlampp moved, seconded by Bauer, to adjourn the meeting.
Motion carried 7-0-0. The meeting was adjourned at 9:15 P.M.
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